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LAXintl
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Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:31 pm

Cebu Air, Inc. d/b/a Cebu Pacific Air has applied with the DOT for authority to commence service to the United States.

Cebu seeks authority for services linking the Philippines to Guam, Saipan, Honolulu, Los Angeles and San Francisco.

Cebu states is intends to commence service initially to Guam 3x weekly effective April 2013.

With the Philippines having been downgraded on safety grounds which restricts new services between the nations, Cebu states it will operate the new flights utilizing wet-lease aircraft from Cat-1 compliant country until such time the Philippine status is restored.

Further the carrier states as the largest Philippine carrier now it intends to bring its "low fare, great value" strategy to the United States utilizing innovative discounts of as much as 50% off current market fares.


OST-2012-TBA
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
crownvic
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:33 am

This airline is one of the worst airlines you will ever fly, so good luck getting American passengers. Some highlights of their "low fare, great value" service, which really contradicts Philippine hospitality:

1) Rude airport staff
2) Rude Flight Attendants
3) A real "could care less" attitude with their passengers
4) Unreliable service and very unhelpful during irregular ops
5) A reservation system that you better stay on top of when booking, or you will pay for services you never wanted
6) Disorganized Check-in facilities
7) Excessive fees for everything

Well, in America we maybe used to this with a few certain carriers, but when you are treated this way in the Philippines, it just seems to have more of an impact. I have flown on 100's of airlines in my lifetime and I have never encountered a worse airline than this.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:44 am

Yeah but the flight attendants will dance for you  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqh8e2KYIrU

But seriously, I suspect they will OK across the Pacific to the US. Doubtless there will be many Filipinos looking to get home and save a few pennies.

Anyhow, I dont think Cebu has gotten this big (and profitable) being as bad as stated. PAL is no jewel either from the stories I hear here in LA. Many avoid it like the plague.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
crownvic
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:21 am

Totally agree w/ you on the F/A's and have no complaint about their looks  , but on recent flights, they have been very rude and just seem like a very unhappy bunch. The famous hip-hop videos are probably pushing two years old now.

I do fly internally in the Philippines quite often and they are quite comparable to NK here in the U.S...Did NK get popular and profitable because people love them? I think not. They are probably the most hated U.S. carrier, but savvy travelers will book them to save money and there is a purpose for them. I am sure it is no different at Cebu Pacific. The thing is, now there are alternatives to Cebu Pacific and they know this. I have flown SEAir, Zest and AirPhilEx. several times. They all offer comparable service, similar fares, pretty flight attendants, but these three airlines at least smile at you while taking your money.

I have flown PAL many times and although their domestic service is hit/miss, I have always found their inter Asia service acceptable and most F/A's both male and female to be attentive and friendly.

Here is my assessment of Cebu Pacific. They have eroded away most of PAL's domestic service. The only way PAL could compete was buying AirPhilEx. The domestic skies of the Philippines are getting over-crowded w/ too much competition with the airlines I have mentioned along with Air Asia Philippines and few other smaller operators. Cebu Pacific is feeling the heat, so what are they now doing? Going after PAL's international routes. A smart business decision. My point is, I have flown on about 20 legs with Cebu Pacific in the past 18 months and have had numerous issues w/ them and just do not recommend this airline, when there are plenty of other alternatives. I now avoid flying them, unless I have no choice.
 
Lostmoon744
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:09 pm

I'm flying from Manila to Dumaguette this Christmas for a wedding on AirPhil. Are they utilising 320s on that leg? I've never flown Cebu Pacific before and from all accounts, it's good that I haven't.

What was your experience like with AirPhil?

Thanks
 
ORDJOE
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:57 pm

Flew from CEB to MPH (50 min flight in ATR 72), I am pretty tolerant, but it seemed every step of the way was just a total cluster FU(*&^^CK.

Quoting crownvic (Reply 1):
1) Rude airport staff
2) Rude Flight Attendants
3) A real "could care less" attitude with their passengers
4) Unreliable service and very unhelpful during irregular ops
5) A reservation system that you better stay on top of when booking, or you will pay for services you never wanted
6) Disorganized Check-in facilities
7) Excessive fees for everything

I could not agree more. At both airport for short lines somehow took an hour to check in, at MPH their credit card machine was out, would refuse to do a carbon pressing (When I saw the slider thing to do it right there), so had to catch a cab to find a working ATM.

I would never fly this, and I doubt a carrier like that would do well in the US, let alone on ULH rotes to SFO and LAX on an LCC servicing a notorious VFR leisure market.
 
KaiTak747
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:32 pm

According to wikipeida, they are leasing 8 A333s. Do they have the range though to make Philippines-US?
 
rocket45
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:35 pm

Rocket45

CEB reservation system appears to be a simple add a number and no subtractions. Went to their reservations office in Robinson Imus to cancel a couple of prepaid tickets. We were not going to use them and knew there would be no refund. The agents refused to cancel the seats, they just don't do that! They thought we were nuts. No suggestion on our part that they could resell the seats was something they even considered. Therefore it would seem their system is one of numbers and since most folks have paid in advance they save administration cost by not wasting agent time to mess with cancels..

Experience with CEB airport agents has been negative as described above. Inflight folks are normally pleasant but as a traveler one gets tired of their tired game choices etc. which are a big bore and have minimal participation by passengers.
 
Akiestar
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 6):
According to wikipeida, they are leasing 8 A333s. Do they have the range though to make Philippines-US?

They will up to HNL, which they're targeting along with GUM for initial U.S. service.

----

In fairness, my experiences with 5J have been fairly average. Nothing special or breathtaking, yet no significant problems on the scale of what's being recounted here. Now while Filipinos will go head over heels for cheap fares, I really hope they will not subject themselves to be tortured by what's supposed to be a super-packed A330 (according to what I've heard, 5J will have a super-high density all-economy configuration on their new planes) for the next 8-10 hours, lest they want those cheap fares to bite them back in the behind.

[Edited 2012-10-18 10:10:05]
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:05 pm

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 4):
What was your experience like with AirPhil?


I've flown the Dash 300 to Busuanaga twice it was not anything special. The crew was quite young on both (Pilots and F/A's both) and the aircraft were rather tattered. The check in staff at USU was having a fun time and were pleasant overall.

I hope to take the A320 to Dumaguete in March...we'll see how that goes. Overall, I have avoided Cebu Pacific on my trips in the Philippines.

Tomas SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
PRFlyer
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:31 pm

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 6):
According to wikipeida, they are leasing 8 A333s. Do they have the range though to make Philippines-US?

But they won't be able to use their metal until the Philippines get back to CAT1. They are going to use wet-leased aircrafts to start the service. All I can say to Bupac, good luck to them.
 
MHG
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting crownvic (Reply 1):
I have flown on 100's of airlines in my lifetime and I have never encountered a worse airline than this.

Try Ryanair (Ireland)
I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
 
737-990
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:18 pm

Wow, I can't believe I have have to write a defense of Cebu Pacific but I think I might have to just to balance out the negatives. I've done two round trips with 5J, once Manila to Bohol on a A319 and the second time last year to Busuanga (USU) on an ATR72. Neither time did I experience anything negative. Just know that this is an Ultra Low Far Airline and that is exactly what we got. I can say that it was a notch above the experience I had with easyJet in the UK as I was at least able to pay to pre-reserve a seat. The boarding process was also more orderly than U2 as everyone had assigned seating so no mad dash to the aircraft. Both times I had friendly F/As and did not experience any rude staff. The check in process in MNL is a bit long for domestic flights, it was more in line with an international check in process. Also when flying the ATRs you get weighed in which I suspect has more to do with the aircraft and their weight and balance system than the airline.

All in all I've found Cebu fine for short hour long flights, I think they would have to have a killer deal for me to take them on a 13hour trans-pac flight however. Bottom line is you get what you pay for, I'm sure there is a market for Ultra low cost fares even on trans-pac flights.
Happiest is a man who has his vocation as a hobby
 
awthompson
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:43 pm

I have to disagree with most of the above. I have flown many times with Cebu Pacific on Manila to Cebu return, Hong Kong to Cebu return and Manila to Tagbilaran on Bohol Island. I think I also did Manila to Cagayan De Oro return. I have enjoyed every minute of these flights and cabin staff have been great!
Cabin staff even ran an audience participation 'game' for all on board as entertainment on one of my flights from Cebu to Hong Kong with numerous prizes being given out. They were real entertainers. Come on, where would you get it!
I find filipinas are generally very friendly/happy, understand respect, know how to smile and are born with a caring heart unlike most western nationalities.
I am writing from a UK perspective, maybe in USA cabin crew customer standards are a mile higher than UK so you are making the comparison from a much higher base?
 
jetblue777
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:18 pm

Great to hear that 5J is planning to fly here in the US! Although you'll have to pay me to even step onboard an ultra-high density A330 on a flight lasting more than 5 hours. I see them doing well in this route, considering that many Filipinos are willing to sacrifice comfort to save $$$.

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 4):
What was your experience like with AirPhil?

I prefer Airphil over Cebu Pacific. Although the last time I flew 5J, (CEB-PPS) on a brand new A319, the experience was quite good and the flight attendants were not only attractive but friendly as well. I've flown on both many times now, and despite my last Airphil flight being below average service-wise, I would still pick Airphil over Cebu Pacific.


However, I feel like Airphil Express is more consistent when it comes to service. Product-wise, they're all the same, tight seat pitch, good fares, and from my experience last summer - excellent on-time performance (as long as the flight is not going or coming from MNL)

As for their websites, Airphil wins it. It's much simpler, and easy to use. Cebu Pacific's website is pretty decent, but every time we book with our US credit card, we have to do it twice as it always gets rejected on the first try.

BTW, your flight is most likely going to be on an A320.

Quoting awthompson (Reply 13):
Cabin staff even ran an audience participation 'game' for all on board as entertainment on one of my flights from Cebu to Hong Kong with numerous prizes being given out. They were real entertainers. Come on, where would you get it!

  

Quoting crownvic (Reply 3):
have flown PAL many times and although their domestic service is hit/miss, I have always found their inter Asia service acceptable and most F/A's both male and female to be attentive and friendly.

PAL is definitely, without a doubt, the best choice for domestic flying in the Philippines. It's just that, they are most of the time, nearly twice or even three times more expensive that 5J or 2P.


jetBlue777   
It's a cultural thing.
 
aviationfreak
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:20 pm

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 9):
I hope to take the A320 to Dumaguete in March...we'll see how that goes. Overall, I have avoided Cebu Pacific on my trips in the Philippines.

I´ve flown a Cebu Pacific DC-9 to Dumaguete years ago. Experience was ok. The worst thing was the cramp-ted and overcrowded domestic terminal atManilla.
Reservation issues I´ve never had. Just showed up at the terminal bought a ticket que-ed in and checked in and walked on the a/c.
Took an 732 Air Philippines flight back to Manilla the same way.

Both flights where ok but fun. Paying almost nothing for these flights never caused high expectations with me. Therefore nothing to complain.
I fact I was quite happy I was able to fly classic types, especially the DC-9 which was a first timer for me.
I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
 
Akiestar
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:56 pm

Quoting jetBlue777 (Reply 14):
I prefer Airphil over Cebu Pacific. Although the last time I flew 5J, (CEB-PPS) on a brand new A319, the experience was quite good and the flight attendants were not only attractive but friendly as well. I've flown on both many times now, and despite my last Airphil flight being below average service-wise, I would still pick Airphil over Cebu Pacific.

However, I feel like Airphil Express is more consistent when it comes to service. Product-wise, they're all the same, tight seat pitch, good fares, and from my experience last summer - excellent on-time performance (as long as the flight is not going or coming from MNL)

I'm flying 2P in about two weeks (SIN-MNL). The last time I flew 2P actually was before the PAL Express/APx rebranding, on an old PR Boeing 737, so I am looking forward to see the new Air Philippines. (This is despite the fact that Airphil Express will revert back to the PAL Express brand as Project Winter is rolled out.)

Though their standard 10 kg baggage allowance disturbs me (I was informed they have prepaid baggage, but this option is not on their website, so you have to call them or leave them a message on Facebook), I'm hoping for the best. And the option to earn Mabuhay Miles on all 2P flights again starting October 28 will do wonders for my PR mileage statement. 

Quoting Aviationfreak (Reply 15):
The worst thing was the cramp-ted and overcrowded domestic terminal atManilla.

This has been fixed, especially now that 5J and 2P have moved out. It's actually here where the MNL renovations are most evident: Terminal 4 (as it is called now) is much more comfortable than it used to be, as far as I see the pictures going around.

And to think: the last time I used this terminal was over two years ago!

[Edited 2012-10-18 17:21:39]
 
yegbey01
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:24 am

Cebu Pacific is a hit and miss kind of airline. I have used them on a few occasions flying between HKG and MNL mostly because of last minute travel plans where their price outweigh the benefit of paying to fly CX.

For a short hop, I don't think I mind them, but there's no way they will be successful with the same service they offer on their flights currently.
 
crownvic
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:03 am

Yes, there are always good and bad experiences with all airlines. I think part of my problem in the Philippines is, I am treated very well wherever I go in this country. That is, until I encounter Cebu Pacific. This airline brings you back to reality and just treats you as another body. However, I do have some specifics that I did not mention before:

I have a problem with an airline (or any company) that intentionally takes your money, with no intention of refunding you. This is what I experienced with this airline. I was recently traveling with somebody that was denied boarding because of immigration issues on a Clark-HKG flight. OK, no fault of the airline, however, I felt compelled to also not take the flight as I thought it was inappropriate to leave the person behind. Please look at these points and you can tell me if I was being unreasonable:

1) Obviously, a refund was out of the question as these were non-refundable tickets, nor was I expecting a refund.

2) The Cebu Pacific ground staff were well aware of our situation and waited until 15 minutes prior to the flights departure to inform us that we would be forfeiting our seats. Fully agreed and understood.

3) After missing this scheduled flight, the immigration issue was resolved an hour after this flight departed. As there was only one flight to HKG, we had to wait for the next days flight, and at that time, we were at the the airlines airport office location and began the re booking process. That is when the "robbery" began.

4) OK, not only did we lose the original ticket, but when we began the re booking process, they wanted to charge us the available fare which was now less than 24 hours from departure. Well, you guessed it. It was SIGNIFICANTLY higher and they showed zero mercy.

5) On the original flight, I had prepaid for the emergency exit row and the heavy baggage allowance. They refused to give me any credit from the original ticket and had to purchase these services all over again. OK, you maybe thinking that they could have sold the emergency exit seats to somebody else? Possibly, but the original flight only had 29 people booked that day. As for the luggage, I feel they basically stole this money from me

6) The last straw? My return flight was no longer valid, because I failed to board the scheduled outbound flight. Up to that point, I was very calm, but at this point, I blew my stack! Fortunately, the agent (who was a supervisor) retracted her comment and realized my return was still valid.

I just felt that this airline could have been more accommodating, considering they were completely aware of the immigration problem that was no fault of ours, yet they took full advantage of us and offered us zero restitution, for what we had gone through. Yes, rules are rules and this airline is very good about telling you this, but at the same time, rules can be altered for certain situations, but instead, this airline chose to take full advantage of our problem. That is why, they will not get my business again.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:15 am

Quoting crownvic (Reply 1):
1) Rude airport staff
2) Rude Flight Attendants
3) A real "could care less" attitude with their passengers

Just like a US airline then!!   

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 4):
What was your experience like with AirPhil?

I have flown on their A320s HKG-CEB vv a couple of times and always found them to be fine. Typical low cost offerings but brand new A320s very happy and friendly crews. Nothing to complain about especially given the excellent fares I got.
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:26 pm

Any guesses what they'll lease?

I agree that 2P/Z2/DG/Air Asia (AK/FD/QZ, haven't flown PQ) are better experiences overall. But I only have a problem with 1kg overweight baggage on 5J once. I've flown them MNL-MPH/OZC/VRC/CEB/DVO/TAG/DGT/PPS/KLO, CEB-KLO/OZC/GES/SIN, MNL-BKK/SIN/CGK/HKG/PEK/BKI/TPE, CRK-MFM/HKG/CEB... Likely forgot a few but no major issues overall.

Travel insurance is for an immigration issue as above... There are tens of people denied immigration clearance in CRK daily for alleged human trafficking or whatever.

Navitaire does not cancel return tickets as everything is sector based.

5J ground staff is contract staff from Topserve, not 5J staff.

Finally, you can't rely on a credit card in the Phils unless there is a Citi or BPI ATM nearby, they tend to stay online.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:23 pm

I would gladly fly them MNLSFO if they get the service and can provide a comparable deal to what they do domestically.

I flew them MNL-KLB and I have no complaints. Booked the ticket the day before for some ungodly cheap fare of like $50 RT. They didn't hassle me about my bag which was definitely pushing the carry-on limit, generally a pleasant experience.
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:23 pm

Quoting crownvic (Reply 1):
so good luck getting American passengers.

How many Americans do you think fly PR to Asia? A few who want a MNL stopover on the way to BKK maybe... It's more or less all balikbayan traffic.

Quoting crownvic (Reply 1):
Well, in America we maybe used to this with a few certain carriers, but when you are treated this way in the Philippines, it just seems to have more of an impact.

5J targets the overseas Filipinos. They'd sit on a wooden bench for 8 hours to save $10. If you've ever been on a 2GO (former superferry) vessel, they'll gladly slum it in "mega value" for $2 less than much more comfortable tourist accommodations for a 24h manila-cebu trip. Similarly 3 people book 3 beds in tourist if they save $5 compared to a private stateroom for 3.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
crownvic
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:39 am

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 22):

How many Americans do you think fly PR to Asia? A few who want a MNL stopover on the way to BKK maybe... It's more or less all balikbayan traffic.

I hear you Lufthansa747. Although I do use them inter-Asia, when I travel from the U.S. several times per year to the Ph., I do not use them. Why?

1) The A340 I am subjected to has a very substandard C Class and the flight is very long on this slow aircraft.
2) No alliance with the major world carriers (i.e. SkyTeam, *A, etc.)
3) Inconvenient arrival time in MNL. Have you ever tried to check into a hotel at 6am?

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 22):
5J targets the overseas Filipinos. They'd sit on a wooden bench for 8 hours to save $10. If you've ever been on a 2GO (former superferry) vessel, they'll gladly slum it in "mega value" for $2 less than much more comfortable tourist accommodations for a 24h manila-cebu trip. Similarly 3 people book 3 beds in tourist if they save $5 compared to a private stateroom for 3.

I hear you 2x! I have observed this myself when traveling internally in the Ph. However, when I hear the wage situation in this country, everything is relative. The extra few dollars that most of us take for granted, could easily mean a full days pay to many of these people.
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:29 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

Cebu seeks authority for services linking the Philippines to Guam, Saipan, Honolulu, Los Angeles and San Francisco.

Any link to the application?

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Cebu states is intends to commence service initially to Guam 3x weekly effective April 2013.

GUM is well within the range of 5J's A320s...IMHO, they'd be better off waiting until Cat 1 is restored before introducing this service.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Cebu states it will operate the new flights utilizing wet-lease aircraft from Cat-1 compliant country until such time the Philippine status is restored.

I don't see 5J with wet-leased aircraft at LAX and SFO for long. 5J seems very confident Cat 1 will come soon.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
But seriously, I suspect they will OK across the Pacific to the US.

Wet-leasing aircraft from another carrier while also paying for the leases of eight other A333s would strain what margin they could make on these long-haul, low-cost operations.....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...1/uk-cebuair-idUSLNE80U01120120131

.....unless the leases are flexible enough to commence and end at the approximate time of Cat II's lifting.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Doubtless there will be many Filipinos looking to get home and save a few pennies.
Quoting jetBlue777 (Reply 14):
I see them doing well in this route, considering that many Filipinos are willing to sacrifice comfort to save $$$.

It remains to be seen how many would endure a tightly packed one-stopper at HNL...let alone a backbreaking, no-frills, nonstop TPAC crossing to MNL...for their promised 35% less fares (no hidden fees please).

Quoting PRFlyer (Reply 10):
But they won't be able to use their metal until the Philippines get back to CAT1.

Even if they finally could, cabotage would work against them between Hawaii and the west coast. MNL-HNL-MNL would do well...it's the jump to the mainland that is questionable.

Quoting Aviationfreak (Reply 15):
I´ve flown a Cebu Pacific DC-9 to Dumaguete years ago. Experience was ok. The worst thing was the cramp-ted and overcrowded domestic terminal at Manilla.

Now, you will arrive and can transfer to their domestic flights at T3.

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 20):
Any guesses what they'll lease?

Maybe they could wet-lease AI's 772s on the cheap as a stopgap?  



[Edited 2012-10-21 22:20:56]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 20460
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RE: Cebu Pacific Applies For US Service

Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:23 pm

Should be publicly available at www.regulations.gov

Its filing number is OST-2012-0176
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