gauravpai
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:19 am

Will the drama finally end effectively closing down the airline.?

Aviation regulator Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) may suspend the licence of Kingfisher Airlines today for failing to come up with a viable financial revival plan, sources have said.

The Vijay Mallya-promoted airline was to respond to a show-cause notice issued by the regulator by today (October 20), but that seems unlikely as the airline has sent out a request for more time to do so.

The DGCA will consider all legal implications before suspending the licence, the sources said. It had asked the airline, which has not operated a single flight since 1 October, to explain why its licence should not be cancelled.

In a statement issued on Friday, the debt-laden airline said it had written to the aviation regulator seeking time on the show-cause notice, and added that it was extending its partial lockout until October 23. In a second extension (the first being until 12 October), the lockout is scheduled to have today (October 20).

"The management hopes to resume operations on November 6," Friday’s statement added.

The airline was forced to declare a lockout and suspend flight operations after its 250 engineers went on strike on September 30.

They were later joined by pilots.

The employees are protesting against non-payment of salaries and dues, and have said that work will resume only after all dues are paid and assurances are given that salaries will be paid on time.

Several talks between the staff and the management have failed. 

On Friday, Kingfisher statement quoted Prakash Mirpuri, the vice-president of corporate communications, as saying, “We had a positive meeting with employee representatives on October 17 and are hopeful of reaching common ground when we meet again next week."

Shares in Kingfisher Airlines dropped 4.8 per cent on Friday ahead of the October 20 deadline to respond to the civil aviation authorities. The DGCA had told the airline on October 5 to demonstrate why its permit to fly should not be suspended or cancelled for failing to establish a "safe, efficient and reliable service", and gave it 15 days to reply.

Kingfisher had previously grounded flights until October 20, but the industry regulator on Wednesday had rejected Kingfisher's winter schedule.

The airline currently has only 10 operational aircraft compared to 66 planes a year ago.

The Vijay Mallya-owned airline is reeling from a $1.4 billion (Rs. 7,524 crore) debt. It has accumulated operating losses of Rs. 8,000 crore.

Lenders to the airline earlier this month agreed to release Rs 60 crore from an escrow account to keep the airline afloat. An escrow account, which prevents a default in loan obligations by a company, ensures that funds received by a company cannot be accessed by it but goes directly to the lenders.

After the restructuring of loans to Kingfisher Airlines in 2010-11, its lenders had taken charge of cash flows, including funds received through ticket sales. The airline needs Rs 55 to 60 crore to pay salaries for two months.

So far, the meetings between the management and the striking employees have failed to end the impasse. A crucial meeting on Thursday also could not arrive at a conclusion. The management has assured payment of a month’s salary which is not acceptable to the staff.
Source: Ndtv

Looks like its Bye Bye IT. !! You will be missed
 
PHX787
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:50 am

Quoting gauravpai (Thread starter):
Will the drama finally end effectively closing down the airline.?

Well as I previously stated, wiki said that the death knell was to toll on 10/20. I heard today that one of the creditors is going to force IT to shut down but I haven't heard anything yet.

No word on the license being suspended yet either. I'll keep checking the news.

Quoting gauravpai (Thread starter):
Looks like its Bye Bye IT. !! You will be missed

      RIP
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gauravpai
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:57 am

I think the judgement should be out at about 3 pm IST so in about 5.5 hrs from now

Let's hope sense prevails and the proverbial horse with the broken leg is put to sleep. I gu see the employees have suffered a great deal by prolonging the drama

As PHX787 rightly said
IT RIP   
 
VIDP
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:07 am

i badly miss their A332,s had wonderfull flights to Heathrow/Delhi on IT001/IT002 flying biz
 
PIEAvantiP180
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:33 am

I wonder who will pick up all that metal not flying any more? How many planes has IT already had repossessed by lenders and lessors?
 
PHX787
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:44 am

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 4):
How many planes has IT already had repossessed by lenders and lessors?

As of right now all planes are still grounded,

but they have about 21 airplanes in their fleet. 2 of them were in VIP configuration.

According to Wiki, "Pre-2012 operations" fleet =:

3x A319, dry-leased
21x A320 with 67 on order, 11 dry-leased(were these orders cancelled?)
8x A321 (2 of them were dry-leased)
4x A330s with 15 on order

Orders for 5 A350s or 5 A380s, with 5 A380s on option.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingfisher_airlines#Fleet
Correct me if I'm wrong  
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ZKOJH
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:34 am

Well they seem to keep finding some extra breathing space!

''Mumbai, October 19, 2012
Kingfisher Airlines Ltd. has extended the partial lockout until October 23, 2012. We had a positive meeting with employee representatives on October 17th and are hopeful of reaching common ground when we meet again next week. Currently, we anticipate resuming operations on November 6th, subject to our resumption plan being reviewed and approved by the DGCA.''

http://www.flykingfisher.com/media-c...kfa--mumbai-october-19th-2012.aspx
Vietnam time..
 
gauravpai
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:13 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 6):

Uh oh Here we go again

If they indeed make it wonder how long till it just falls apart !

Hoping for the best for all concerned especially the employees

Cheers

Dr Gaurav Pai
 
blueflyer
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:21 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 6):
Well they seem to keep finding some extra breathing space!

That doesn't change anything.
The DGCA has given Kingfisher until October 20 to explain why its license shouldn't be withdrawn. This deadline is in no way influenced by the airline's unilateral and unrelated decision to extend its employees lockout until October 23.

The first step of their resumption plan Kingfisher mentions in its press release is to get the DGCA to give them more time to file their answer and avoid losing their license. If the DGCA grants their request, they get to keep on dying slowly for a while longer. If the DGCA doesn't, their long and slow agony ends today...
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
gauravpai
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:22 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 6):

What you have quoted us what IT officials are saying not DGCA or the GOI

So for all you know the airline may lose its licence in another two hours

The govt has said that the winter slots will be distributed to all other airlines and no winter slots have been allotted to kingfisher

So let's wait and watch but I feel this is the end or very close to the end

Quoting VIDP (Reply 3):

With you on that they had excellent J service international and domestic as well with great food until things fell apart

In any case   
 
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HAWK21M
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:52 am

The end of good times..........

suspended.......2nd last nail in the coffin.

sad for the staff.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
BLRAviation
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:08 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
suspended.......2nd last nail in the coffin.

IT license is "suspended" pending receipt of a "viable business plan" which relies on "suitcase technology". When it comes to GoI and aviation, anything is possible.
I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
 
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RWA380
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:13 am

I've been wondering how many times this carrier can come so close to flat lining, until they do it for good. Kingfisher has been given the paddles more than once to revive them for short spurts, but they always seem to end up stuck in quick sand.

This is sad for all involved, the guy who lost millions and millions investing in this airline, the employees that have little job security, the debtors who will likely not see their money, nor the travellers (not sure how many) whose plans are going to be interrupted or fubarred in some way. The economy of support services that Kingfisher at least in part supported. RIP IT

 
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
cricket
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:16 am

jo hona tha so ho gaya... RIP Kingfisher, I guess as a holder of 70,000 King Miles I'm also an unsecured creditor now...

WSJ piece

A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
gauravpai
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:22 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 12):
This is sad for all involved, the guy who lost millions and millions investing in this airline, the employees that have little job security, the debtors who will likely not see their money

Absolutely

Quoting Cricket (Reply 13):
RIP Kingfisher, I guess as a holder of 70,000 King Miles I'm also an unsecured creditor now...

57000 miles myself so am in it with you   

anyways was fun as long as the goodtimes lasted,will miss the lobster meals,the freshly brewed coffees ,the personalised specatcle cleaning, the amenity kit and ofcourse the Personally picked IT stewardesses. 

I think this is finally IT !!   
 
Cipango
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:28 am

Such a sad ending. I flew them a few times before and was very impressed with their A332 from DEL-LHR. A very fine product with great service and food.

Will the unpaid staff every get paid for their work now?
Let's fly! Unless it's on a CRJ 200, then I'll stay down here.
 
gauravpai
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:31 am

Quoting cipango (Reply 15):
Will the unpaid staff every get paid for their work now?

Doubtful
Shameful and Sad as well i may add!
 
HPRamper
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:04 pm

They should be forced to sell their aircraft off and all proceeds given to the employees who have been literally working for free for half a year. Shameful that this airline was allowed to operate off the backs of free labor for so long based simply on empty promises by management. It boggles my mind how this could even happen in this day and age.
 
art
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:09 pm

IMO the board members responsible for this mess should be disbarred from holding such office in Indian companies. If found to have acted illegally, they should be punished and made personally responsible for any debt arising from their illegal conduct.

I find it disgusting that while failing to pay salaries the company stopped processing "requests for references" which would have enabled employees to secure an income stream elsewhere. I would like to see those responsible for that imprisoned to send out a message to other unscrupulous employers.
 
LOWS
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:46 pm

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 11):
"suitcase technology

Will that be the technology developed by Zero Halliburton?

Will employees have any claim for assets for their back wages?
 
BLRAviation
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:58 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 19):
Will that be the technology developed by Zero Halliburton?

  

Quoting LOWS (Reply 19):
Will employees have any claim for assets for their back wages?

Indian law is very favourable to labour, but unfortunately most of IT employees will be on a pay scale above labour i.e. factory workers, and there the employees will have to just get in line like unsecured creditors.

But in all our head shaking, we are overlooking the political angle in all of this. DGCA has given Mallya the "Get out of Jail Free" card.

By suspending the license, Mallya can conveniently duck    and dump the whole problem in the lap of the government.

"I was trying to revive, get FDI, do this, do that, GoI closed the airline. Now how can they expect me to repay the debts [to employees, government oil cos., airports, etc. etc. etc.]".

As a seasoned media professional in the thick of things, I would love to hear Cricket's views on my hypothesis.
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gauravpai
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 17):

Very well said HPR atleast some of the sweat and blood will be repaid

However knowing how things work in This snake of the woods it's highly unlikely and the top officials will get away scot free

The only bright side is if the airline closes the employees can seek jobs at other airlines which they could not for so long as they were not being given an NOC by IT

Cheers
Best of luck to all former employees of IT
 
cricket
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 17):
They should be forced to sell their aircraft off and all proceeds given to the employees who have been literally working for free for half a year. Shameful that this airline was allowed to operate off the backs of free labor for so long based simply on empty promises by management. It boggles my mind how this could even happen in this day and age.

Sell what aircraft? They don't own a single one, in fact the lessors are having to pay off the airports just to get them out and worse, many of them (those parked up at T2 at DEL) are simply unflyable; which given that they are in some cases just four years old is goddamn tragic...
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
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scbriml
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:59 pm

Well that's a real shame. One of the better looking schemes out there.  
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Photo © Steve Brimley
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Photo © Steve Brimley

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
Vimanav
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:12 pm

I wish the employees the very best and my heart goes out to them. All I can say is there are better days ahead for them but away from this airline.

brgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
abrelosojos
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:27 pm

Another chapter in the troubled industry of aviation comes to an end. This thread made me recall the reports I had written on them:

Kingfisher IT 433: 23/DEC/08: HYD-CCU: Y Cabin (by Abrelosojos Jan 25 2009 in Trip Reports)
Kingfisher IT 432: 08/OCT/06: IXA-GAU: Y Cabin (by Abrelosojos Oct 31 2006 in Trip Reports)
Kingfisher IT 71: 24/JAN/10: BOM-HKG: J Cabin (by abrelosojos May 14 2010 in Trip Reports)

In the end, we wil have these memories. I truly wish and hope the best for the employees.

Saludos,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
PHX787
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:55 pm

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/1...ce-suspended-idINDEE89J03620121020

License suspended by Indian government, bookings cease, but airline not shut down.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 6):
Well they seem to keep finding some extra breathing space!

Well I checked and checked and checked again and it still says that they have this breathing space. it's like a dying patient fighting for its life strapped to the life support machine. It's not going anywhere so pull the proverbial plug and get it over with already, IT -__-

As of 2 hours ago, the license is now suspended, but the airline has not shut down.

Quoting gauravpai (Reply 14):
Quoting Cricket (Reply 13):
RIP Kingfisher, I guess as a holder of 70,000 King Miles I'm also an unsecured creditor now...

57000 miles myself so am in it with you

Will AI take over those miles, or will all those just go to waste?

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 25):
In the end, we wil have these memories. I truly wish and hope the best for the employees.

  
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LAXDESI
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:56 pm

Public sector banks will become the majority claimants. Anyone know what has been pledged by UB Group and Mallya personally?

As UB stock has risen 45% this year, it is unlikely that it has much exposure. I thought IT had pledged some UB shares for some of its loans. Anyone know?

I hope GOI keeps the operating license intact post liquidation, and attempts to sell it to a domestic or a domestic/foreign JV to recoup some of the losses for public sector banks.

Will TATA be interested? How about EK India with 49% EK control and rest owned by local partner and banks? How about IAG(BA) or CX?
 
adityashankar
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:25 pm

I just saw the JustPlanes (World Air Routes) Kingfisher video, can't believe its the same airline going through so much.....I got a chance to fly them September 2011, good service.....All the best for the employees, I'm sure they'll get a job soon, especially with IndiGo expanding their fleet, If I'm right they are getting A320neo real soon.

RIP Kingfisher Airlines   
Spreading the Joy of Flight
 
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vishaljo
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:29 pm

we were spotting today & the remaining last 5 KF a/c's are parked here:
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Photo © Vishal Jolapara - Indian Aviation Photographers

 
usflyer msp
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:20 pm

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 27):
Will TATA be interested? How about EK India with 49% EK control and rest owned by local partner and banks? How about IAG(BA) or CX?

I am not seeing anyone interested in purchasing IT. Too much debt and the Indian domestic market still has, even with the IT shutdown, significant overcapacity issues that make all domestic carriers unwise investments.
 
HPRamper
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:07 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 22):
Sell what aircraft? They don't own a single one, in fact the lessors are having to pay off the airports just to get them out and worse, many of them (those parked up at T2 at DEL) are simply unflyable; which given that they are in some cases just four years old is goddamn tragic...

Ah, I was under the impression that they owned at least a few. Well, in that case, take it out of their asses...pardon the language.
 
danielkandi
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:57 pm

Way better inflight experience than other Indian carriers, plus very good prices usually. They once helped me out of a real jam, and for that I am eternally grateful.... rip Kingfisher !
Flown on : md80, md95, Avro RJ85/100, Q400, Atr42/72, a319/320/321, a332/a333, a343/346, b733 and up, 757, 747, 767 and
 
gauravpai
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Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:32 am

Hi all

Another twist in the tail

MANAGEMENT RESPONSE KINGFISHER AIRLINES

This afternoon we received an order of the Director General of Civil Aviation suspending our scheduled operator's permit. We would like to clarify that this is not a cancellation but a temporary suspension which is valid only till such time that we submit a concrete and reliable revival plan to the satisfaction of DGCA. While this order is being examined, we would like to bring to your notice that the actual position has not changed because of this order. We have in any case always maintained that once the issues with the employees are resolved, we will first present our resumption plan to DGCA for review, before resuming operations.
 
Notwithstanding the order of the DGCA, we had in any case suspended operations and closed forward bookings till November 6, 2012. The management has already earlier communicated to all stakeholders this very position. We are now immediately suspending all forward bookings till such time we resume operations.
 
It is our endeavour to re-start operations at the earliest and we assure you we are working towards achieving this.


Quoting PHX787
No AI will not take over the miles , I guess they are going down the drain!

Cheers
Dr Gaurav Pai
They just don't seem to realise its over. How long will they stretch the suffering?
 
PHX787
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Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:41 am

Quoting gauravpai (Reply 33):
but a temporary suspension which is valid only till such time that we submit a concrete and reliable revival plan to the satisfaction of DGCA.
Quoting gauravpai (Reply 33):
It is our endeavour to re-start operations at the earliest and we assure you we are working towards achieving this.

Oh jeez    I wonder what they have in the pipeline now. Well, looks like they got until Nov. 5 to sort things out.

Honestly people, I'm not holding out any more hope. If something positive happens, we'll be surprised and that's probably the best we can do. As for now all we can do is pray for the well being of the employees and just hope everything gets transitioned swiftly and painlessly.

Quoting gauravpai (Reply 33):
No AI will not take over the miles , I guess they are going down the drain!

That's also sad  
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gauravpai
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Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:33 am

The only positive of the airline starting ops if and when is the employees and the hope that they will be paid

A for them the current situation is hopeless and the management couldn't care less

Let's hope they atleast get a part of their dues back so they can get back to having a life and more employees won't be forced to commit suicide like one a fortnight ago

Here's to hope

Dr Gaurav Pai
 
art
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Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:16 am

Quoting gauravpai (Reply 33):
We have in any case always maintained that once the issues with the employees are resolved, we will first present our resumption plan to DGCA for review, before resuming operations.

Situation is this, it seems to me:
Employees: "We want to be paid for working for Kingfisher."
Kingfisher: "That is an issue we need to resolve but you need to understand that your demand is not realistic. Now let's talk about a resolution to this issue."
 
cricket
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Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:34 am

Quoting gauravpai (Reply 33):
This afternoon we received an order of the Director General of Civil Aviation suspending our scheduled operator's permit. We would like to clarify that this is not a cancellation but a temporary suspension which is valid only till such time that we submit a concrete and reliable revival plan to the satisfaction of DGCA. While this order is being examined, we would like to bring to your notice that the actual position has not changed because of this order. We have in any case always maintained that once the issues with the employees are resolved, we will first present our resumption plan to DGCA for review, before resuming operations.

I'll tell you this much, Prakash Mirpuri, KFA spokesperson makes Tariq Aziz look like a rank amatuer. He deserves to be paid now!
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
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HAWK21M
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:53 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 17):
hey should be forced to sell their aircraft off and all proceeds given to the employees who have been literally working for free for half a year.

Doubt if staff will ever get paid......the dues of AAI & refuelling agencies will be bigger.

Remember 1993.......Air asiatic/continental............1996.....East west/damania/skyline/nepc/modiluft...........its back in 2012 with KF.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
gauravpai
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Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:22 am

Quoting above posts here's a Press Release from the Lenders:

Mumbai:  Lenders to Kingfisher Airlines, whose combined exposure of nearly Rs 7,500 crore is at risk, have said they will go in for recovery measures only as the last resort and expressed hope that its promoters will be able to find an investor and resume operations.

Aviation regulator DGCA yesterday suspended the licence of the financially-troubled airline.

"At best, we will be able to recover just 10-15 per cent of our overall exposure if we were to monetise the pledged properties. So initiation of recovery measures will be our last recourse," a senior official of a city-based public sector lender told PTI.

This bank has around Rs 500 crore stressed exposure. When contacted, SBI, which leads the consortium of 17 banks and has an exposure of over Rs 1,500 crore, said the airline was grounded for the past three weeks anyway and thus there is nothing new with the DGCA ordering suspension of its licence.

"Though there is nothing new following the DGCA suspension, we are concerned as we have no control on these developments," S Vishwanathan, managing director, mid-corporates at SBI said.

"We were prepared for all these. The last thing we bankers want is a complete shutdown of the airline as we want it to resume operations and repay our money," he added.

Source: NDTV
Let's see why unfolds. It's turned into a soap opera!
 
COEWR787
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Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:44 am

Quoting gauravpai (Reply 39):
Mumbai: Lenders to Kingfisher Airlines, whose combined exposure of nearly Rs 7,500 crore is at risk, have said they will go in for recovery measures only as the last resort and expressed hope that its promoters will be able to find an investor and resume operations.

The relevant question to ask of the lenders is what they heck were they doing creating such unsecured exposure for themselves? Where is their fiduciary responsibility towards their own owners? But that is a matter beyond aviation.
 
BLRAviation
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:18 pm

I think the suspension is helping Mallya. While we are proclaimed Kingfisher's eulogies, the PR folks at the airline, called the suspension temporary

Quote:
"We would like to clarify that this is not a cancellation but a temporary suspension which is valid only till such time that we submit a concrete and reliable revival plan to the satisfaction of DGCA."

The alcoholic beverages (alcobev) business in India is at the intersection of public relations, sexually aspirational marketing, board-room machinations, manoeuvring around the hundreds of contradicting laws, gratification and slush funds of administrators and politicians. It is one of the dirtiest business and needs to be treaded with extreme care.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I refuse to accept that a man who made his billions in this tricky business, will just fold up his airline, risking his personal assets and those of the UB Group, which have been given as surety on the loans to the airline.

Going out on a limb, I suspect, this suspension may be one last, desperate move by team Mallya, to scare the stakeholders, employees, banks, vendors, and government, into saving the airline.

The striking employees who have been unpaid for seven months have been taking a hard line. With the management offering only one month salary, reconciliation meetings till now have proved futile. Ahead of their meeting with the management on Monday, the suspension suddenly gave the employees a preview of cold, hard reality. If the airline goes under, not only will they not get their unpaid salaries, but they will have to look for new jobs in a shrinking Indian aviation market.

The banks which are refusing to lend any more funds, demanding the Mallya bring in about $500 million (Rs. 2,500 Crore) to re-capitalise the airline, were given a preview of Kingfisher going under. Banks have collateral for only about 10% of their loan exposure. A lengthy, expensive, legal recovery process is not a desirable situation for them. Recovery proceedings may also bring to the surface undesirable information and questions, about potential political influence in these government owned banks granting loans to the airline.

The vendors, especially the airports, the fuel companies, and lessors, who will have to commence lengthy and expensive litigation to recover their dues if Kingfisher goes under. The mess will get further complicated due to cross litigation between the various vendors. For example the lessors who own the aircraft will have to pay the dues of airports before they can take away their aircraft.

]b]The Government[/b], by ordering the suspension or cancellation of Kingfisher's permit, has given Mallya the perfect escape route. He can now dump the entire problem in to the government's lap, saying "What can I do? I did my utmost to save the airline, but the government cancelled the permit. Now they must deal with the consequences."

The spin doctors are UB Group are masters in PR. We recently experienced how well they diverted the media's attention away from the Rs. 60 Cr. humanitarian loan extended by banks to pay salaries, but which has been swallowed up by the airline. The 60 Cr. represents 3 months worth of salaries. So why is KFA management offering only 1 month? Rs. 40 Cr. will get diverted.

Get a Kingfisher stewardess out in protest saying she is out on the streets, and all the TV news channels will cover her from head to toe. In no time, public opinion will be turned, that the government must be humane and take care of those poor unpaid employees who are now out on the streets.

Last, but not the least, is us passengers and tax payers. Thanks to capacity reductions, fares are already up 20% in the last few months, and over 50% compared to last year. With the Dussera festival this week, kicking off the peak travel season till mid January, and Kingfisher out of the picture, fares will rise to astronomical levels. There will be a public outcry and the government will be forced to defend the situation with the Kingfisher spin doctors saying "See, we tried to save the airline. The government closed us down. These fare increases are due to that."

The situation is being unfolded exactly how the King of Good Times wants it.
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art
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:15 pm

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 41):
The spin doctors are UB Group are masters in PR. We recently experienced how well they diverted the media's attention away from the Rs. 60 Cr. humanitarian loan extended by banks to pay salaries, but which has been swallowed up by the airline. The 60 Cr. represents 3 months worth of salaries. So why is KFA management offering only 1 month? Rs. 40 Cr. will get diverted.

Seeking funds / receiving funds for a specified purpose then choosing to use those funds otherwise than for the specified purpose is fraudulent in UK law ie criminal. Is it not so in India?
 
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:30 pm

Quoting art (Reply 42):
Seeking funds / receiving funds for a specified purpose then choosing to use those funds otherwise than for the specified purpose is fraudulent in UK law ie criminal. Is it not so in India?

Not paying employees and taxes is illegal too... Not that it means anything.
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:17 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 37):
Quoting gauravpai (Reply 33):
This afternoon we received an order of the Director General of Civil Aviation suspending our scheduled operator's permit. We would like to clarify that this is not a cancellation but a temporary suspension which is valid only till such time that we submit a concrete and reliable revival plan to the satisfaction of DGCA. While this order is being examined, we would like to bring to your notice that the actual position has not changed because of this order. We have in any case always maintained that once the issues with the employees are resolved, we will first present our resumption plan to DGCA for review, before resuming operations.

I'll tell you this much, Prakash Mirpuri, KFA spokesperson makes Tariq Aziz look like a rank amatuer. He deserves to be paid now!

Indeed, as well as Baghdad Bob.

Now we have Mumbai Mirpuri to add to the list.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 41):
He can now dump the entire problem in to the government's lap, saying "What can I do? I did my utmost to save the airline, but the government cancelled the permit. Now they must deal with the consequences."

The spin doctors are UB Group are masters in PR.

Shame on the public if they buy this kind of spin.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 41):
Last, but not the least, is us passengers and tax payers. Thanks to capacity reductions, fares are already up 20% in the last few months, and over 50% compared to last year.

You passengers and tax payers have benefited from all the money lost by investors and the foolish plan of KFA to buy market share in an unsustainable way.

Add to this the ever increasing price of fuel, and I don't think you'll see those low fares again any time soon.

Any attempt by the government to subsidize lower fares will also be unsustainable, and would be a poor use of limited resources.
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:21 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 44):
You passengers and tax payers have benefited from all the money lost by investors and the foolish plan of KFA to buy market share in an unsustainable way.

Add to this the ever increasing price of fuel, and I don't think you'll see those low fares again any time soon.

Any attempt by the government to subsidize lower fares will also be unsustainable, and would be a poor use of limited resources.

The government doesn't subsidize most of the lower fares people clamor for. GoI instead forces AI to cut fares, and lets the backers of the private carriers lose money on the fare war.
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MadameConcorde
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:31 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 17):
They should be forced to sell their aircraft off and all proceeds given to the employees who have been literally working for free for half a year.
Quoting Cricket (Reply 22):
Sell what aircraft? They don't own a single one
Quoting gauravpai (Reply 33):
Cheers
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They just don't seem to realise its over. How long will they stretch the suffering?

This is really ugly.

Vijay Mallya is a greedy, selfish, ugly man. Employees not getting paid? What does he care... just as long as he is having his own things just the way he wants them to be.



They should force him to sell his mega-yachts to provide for unpaid employees salaries. This is just one of them out of the 3 he owns (himself or in the company's name). Not to talk about the Million $$$ spent on throwing mega-parties at Formula 1 and other events.



I'd like to see this arrogant man totally bankrupted and serving some time in prison.

   Wow!
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:18 pm

In all of this, the thing I'm finding the most difficult to come to terms with is that the banks only have collateral for 10% of their investment.

My first thought is whether they learnt anything from 2008, but that's not for this thread.

The unfortunate reality of this is that the company simply will not die unless the Government actually cancels the certificate permanently. The investers are going to loose too much anyway that it's actually worth their while to throw more money at it and see if anything sticks. I therefore predict that the airline isn't about to be shut down and this drama will be drawn out even longer.

This raises serious questions about Indian lending practices and the behavior of banks, but again that's for another time.



And then of course their's the labor fiasco. I'm not holding my breath but I want to see the entire board behind bars for breach of fiduciary duties, criminal negligence, and fraud. In a western country that isn't asking too much at all given the circumstances, I would like to think that India recognizes that this offers them a chance to show the world that India is an open and transparent business environment etc etc. Again, highly doubtful.

The group in this I feel most sorry for is labour. When the final breakup comes they will get absolutely nothing: they will be prioritised behind the investers, and since they won't get everything no one else will get a cent.  
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:47 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 46):
Vijay Mallya is a greedy, selfish, ugly man. Employees not getting paid? What does he care... just as long as he is having his own things just the way he wants them to be.

This guy really burns my butt! The fact that he has royally screwed the employees while living a great life makes me sick to my stomach. He is indeed a greedy scrap of garbage. Hope he gets his teeth kicked out by a disgruntled employee one day. Nobody deserves it more than him. Nothing fires me up more than when someone like this lives the high life, while hosing his employees without paying them. He could easily afford to pay the workers who have tried their hearts out to save this airline. All he does is lay back and wait for the airline to sink. What a scum bag. I take it he has a security staff? He better beef it up, because unpaid employees will not be in his favor while walking the streets.

I worked for Tristar Airlines based out of LAS. We went belly up, and the CEO told us we would get our final paychecks in a few weeks... They were moving everything out of the office when he told us this. I stood up to him, and demanded our checks now. He gave a cocky attitude, and continued on with his business. When the media arrived after calling them, I told him that I was within steps of kicking his ass if he did not produce checks for us. We were all standing outside of the office, and we were all really fired up at that point. He could tell we were about to come unglued on him. Needless to say, we had hand written checks in our hands within an hour, as the camera crews were there. I know we would have never seen a penny if we had put any trust in his word. Ironic that the financial backer of this airline was arrested and is doing prison time for this airline.
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Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License

Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:36 pm

@BLRAviation

Quote:
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I refuse to accept that a man who made his billions in this tricky business, will just fold up his airline, risking his personal assets and those of the UB Group, which have been given as surety on the loans to the airline.

Well he will take a few people down with him but that's it. While I'm sure he may find some branch to hang to and there could be a saviour for IT; I think such and end was undesirable for IT.

Quote:
The striking employees who have been unpaid for seven months have been taking a hard line. With the management offering only one month salary, reconciliation meetings till now have proved futile. Ahead of their meeting with the management on Monday, the suspension suddenly gave the employees a preview of cold, hard reality. If the airline goes under, not only will they not get their unpaid salaries, but they will have to look for new jobs in a shrinking Indian aviation market.

What's the difference between working without a salary and not working without a salary? The supposedly cold, hard reality is that no matter what happens IT will not have employees working for them who not only have unpaid salaries, but have the idiotic company eaten into their PF as well and that the TDS that was shown on the pay slip never reached the Govt.

Emirates, Qatar Airways, Celebi Nas, Cambatta, Livewell, Air India have absorbed a good number of their employees and are ready to do so once they give up on the hope that IT employees will get their deposits back from the company.

Quote:
Banks have collateral for only about 10% of their loan exposure. A lengthy, expensive, legal recovery process is not a desirable situation for them. Recovery proceedings may also bring to the surface undesirable information and questions, about potential political influence in these government owned banks granting loans to the airline.

As a matter of fact that could be a very well crafted political move by the Congress to corner PP and Sharad Pawar to have an upper hand over them. If it continues to go through the same path, more skeletons will fall out of the closet.

Quote:
We recently experienced how well they diverted the media's attention away from the Rs. 60 Cr. humanitarian loan extended by banks. Get a Kingfisher stewardess out in protest saying she is out on the streets, and all the TV news channels will cover it from head to toe. In no time, public opinion will be turned, that the government must be humane and take care of those poor unpaid employees who are now out on the streets.

I do not think they diverted the media's attention at all for the simple reason that the criticism on them still is at the same level. I have not seen a single channel endorsing an additional loan to IT to "save the employees". The media has better things to follow of national importance like Saif and Kareena's wedding.

Quote:
Thanks to capacity reductions, fares are already up 20% in the last few months, and over 50% compared to last year. With the Dussera festival this week, kicking off the peak travel season till mid January, and Kingfisher out of the picture, fares will rise to astronomical levels. There will be a public outcry and the government will be forced to defend the situation with the Kingfisher spin doctors saying "See, we tried to save the airline. The government closed us down. These fare increases are due to that."

Yes so that we are back to square #1 in screwing the aviaiton industry which anyways have break even load factors of 90 pc plus?

Not at all. People will make noises? let them make it. There is no point in defending this charade in the pretext of "consumer interests". And if people can forget the national scam in days, I'm sure the entity that just affects 15-20% of the population would hardly make any difference. Besides, you think the public will accept revival of IT? Will NG let it happen who has better influence in the Govt? I don't think so Mallya can get away with this easily.
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