PHX787
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Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:35 pm

Hello all, autumn is finally upon us! (or whatever we call "autumn", it's still high 80s around here!)

Our third thread this year, and some lively conversation going on!

On the docket this time around:
UA possibly sending the 787 to PHX tomorrow?
Winter snowbird flights/seasonal flights commencing
DL sending the 767 for one of its ATL flights
Rumors about the US/AA merger (I Haven't heard too much recently, due to AA's troubles)
The Skytrain seems to be going along quite nicely! They have so much going on over by Terminal 3 right now.

From the last thread:

Quoting PHX787:
Quoting chrisair (Reply 272):
By the way, does anyone know why an AeroSur 744 is sitting at TUS? It's over by Atlantic Aviation.

Do you have the registration number? It could be a transfer from MZJ or something.

See you guys at SkyHarbor, and Go Devils!   

PHX787

[Edited 2012-10-21 12:41:16]

[Edited 2012-10-21 12:41:33]

[Edited 2012-10-21 12:42:42]
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BA744PHX
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:24 am

Does anyone know how NK is doing on DEN-AZA? Also how is F9 on future loads doing on AZA-DEN? NK ORD-AZA?

Hoping LAX or SAN are next from AZA

[Edited 2012-10-22 18:51:54]
 
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treebeard787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:47 am

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):

I see. I'll keep checking in with the PHXSpotters page on FB. They have not mentioned anything sense, but Treebeard I think you'd probably know more about this before I would, so if you do find something, please let us know!

Well, UA didn't fly the 787 into PHX today, they had their 787 do a IAH-SFO-IAH run today. Hopefully it will still pay a visit to PHX at some point.
Allons-y!
 
mach2is2slowaz
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:18 am

It would great to see flights out of Gateway to San Diego. 5 min drive from Chandler vs. 30 mins to Sky Harbor and then dealing with terminal 4 security.   
 
PHX787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:31 am

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 2):
Well, UA didn't fly the 787 into PHX today, they had their 787 do a IAH-SFO-IAH run today. Hopefully it will still pay a visit to PHX at some point.

Yeah I saw them post it on the PHX Spotters page. Disappointing indeed.

Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 1):
Hoping LAX or SAN are next from AZA

You know what maybe SAN makes more sense on this list first. Does G4 fly to LAX from AZA?
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aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:12 pm

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 2):

Well, UA didn't fly the 787 into PHX today, they had their 787 do a IAH-SFO-IAH run today. Hopefully it will still pay a visit to PHX at some point.

Hopefully we will get to see this sometime soon. i just hope it is a day that I have off from work.
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:48 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 1):
Hoping LAX or SAN are next from AZA

You know what maybe SAN makes more sense on this list first. Does G4 fly to LAX from AZA?

G4 does not fly to any city in Calif. from AZA. They used to fly to Stockton but that was a long time ago. I would think NK maybe would hope AZA-Cali routes. I think G4 only flies to SAN through BLI, thats it plus G4 ops are tight in LAX so I don't see any new routes starting in LAX
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treebeard787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 6):
G4 does not fly to any city in Calif. from AZA. They used to fly to Stockton but that was a long time ago. I would think NK maybe would hope AZA-Cali routes. I think G4 only flies to SAN through BLI, thats it plus G4 ops are tight in LAX so I don't see any new routes starting in LAX

G4 flies AZA-OAK but thats it for California by G4. AZA-SCK hasn't been flown since 2007.
With all the daily flights on PHX-LAX right now I just don't see anyone making AZA-LAX a viable route. AZA-SAN I could see working well with NK.
Allons-y!
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:51 am

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 7):
G4 flies AZA-OAK but thats it for California by G4

My mistake, I forgot that they were flying that route. Thank you for that correction. I do agree with you, AZA-SAN would be a good fit for NK
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PHX787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:55 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 8):
My mistake, I forgot that they were flying that route. Thank you for that correction. I do agree with you, AZA-SAN would be a good fit for NK

How often does NK operate their current routes in AZA? Daily? A few times per week?

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 5):
Hopefully we will get to see this sometime soon. i just hope it is a day that I have off from work.

Why do you think UA would fly it here anyway? When PHXSpotters announced that on their FB page last week I was completely surprised, because we rarely ever see UA widebodies here. Besides the 764 being used as a charter a few weeks back, I think the largest aircraft UA regularly cycles through here, especially during the peak months here in PHX, is a 757, right?
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aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:36 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
Why do you think UA would fly it here anyway? When PHXSpotters announced that on their FB page last week I was completely surprised, because we rarely ever see UA widebodies here. Besides the 764 being used as a charter a few weeks back, I think the largest aircraft UA regularly cycles through here, especially during the peak months here in PHX, is a 757, right?

The only thing I can think of is that United wanted to have all stations familiar with the 787 as well as this could be a good way to train the crews on how to handle the 787. Other than that I do not have the foggiest as you are correct about UA's 737, 319, RJ operations in PHX is SOP..
 
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treebeard787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
How often does NK operate their current routes in AZA? Daily? A few times per week?

DEN and DFW are at 1x daily and ORD is I think is going to start out at 5x weekly.
Allons-y!
 
PHX787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:15 pm

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 11):
DEN and DFW are at 1x daily and ORD is I think is going to start out at 5x weekly.

That ORD flight will probably become daily quite soon. My buddy used NK to come back to Mesa from ORD and connected through LAS (when they still had that flight.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 10):
The only thing I can think of is that United wanted to have all stations familiar with the 787 as well as this could be a good way to train the crews on how to handle the 787.

Could PHX request the 787 to come here so the ground crews can be trained in handling the a/c in the desert? Just a thought  

Also: where's a good place to spot at AZA?
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aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):

Could PHX request the 787 to come here so the ground crews can be trained in handling the a/c in the desert? Just a thought

Yes, but there were at AZA for hot weather testing as well as the 747-8. I do not think October/November's 80 degree days are "hot" days.

I would think it is more of "see our new toy" and familiarization of the plane for all involved.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Also: where's a good place to spot at AZA?

Never shot at AWA, but I would say that you could go to the Park and Ride area at the end of 12C. The Cessna parking lot could give you something, but that is privet property and I think you would get booted quickly. I miss the day of pulling up to the parking lot and shooting over the fence from the back of the truck.
 
wn676
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:20 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Could PHX request the 787 to come here so the ground crews can be trained in handling the a/c in the desert?

Because hooking up a ground air hose is really hard to do any other place?
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dlramp4life
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Also: where's a good place to spot at AZA?

There is a park with a hill right next the FBO, a good view of the FBO ramp and runways.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 14):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Could PHX request the 787 to come here so the ground crews can be trained in handling the a/c in the desert?

Because hooking up a ground air hose is really hard to do any other place?

LOL.
I think the only time we will ever see the 787 in PHX is because it is a charter or diversion. I would like to see the 787 in PHX but not holding my breath.
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PHX787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:27 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 15):
I think the only time we will ever see the 787 in PHX is because it is a charter or diversion. I would like to see the 787 in PHX but not holding my breath.

Like I keep saying, I definitely see one of the Japanese airlines, either NH or JL, bringing the 787 here once they get their fleet topped out. IMO a perfect aircraft for such a route, and you'd be surprised of the demand there is here.

You know this reminds me, I was going through some stuff on my computer the other day when I was sick, and I recently did a quick yet unofficial poll of some of the people I know who may be interested in such a route.

I asked about 100 people this: 1) How do you normally get to Asia if you're traveling there, and almost all say LAX-NRT and about 60% of those say NRT is their final destination.
2) Would you fly a PHX-NRT direct route if such a route was given? and the response was an overwhelming yes.
3) Would price matter for such a route? And about 10% said yes, and 80% said no. 10 said unsure.
4) Do you think this would be a good route for the businesses here in Arizona? and the overwhelming response was yes.

So obviously people involved with japan would be very enthusiastic about such a route. In order to make this poll more credible, I'm going to email someone I know in the statistics department at ASU and see if I can get them to create a "scientific poll" regarding this.

If DEN can support a Japanese route, I think we can too, because we have a Star hub (or could be a O.W. hub if US merges) and we also have quite a large city and lots of business opportunities here  
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 15):
There is a park with a hill right next the FBO, a good view of the FBO ramp and runways.
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 13):

thanks guys
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wn676
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:15 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 16):
IMO a perfect aircraft for such a route, and you'd be surprised of the demand there is here.

I don't think it's a matter of being able to fill the planes or not; between the local demand and the ability to connect passengers beyond Tokyo, that shouldn't be a problem at all. I think two big things that has kept NRT from launching is that the airline currently best suited to fly that route has been somewhat limited in its long haul equipment over the last few years, and the returns relative to other route opportunities aren't exactly attracting a lot of attention from anyone else at the moment. Someone is bound to start it eventually though so long as the economy continues to mature in the Valley, and as you indicated, aircraft like the 787 are a good fit for routes like these and probably greatly increase our chances here.  

Check your PM inbox, by the way.
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PHX787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:32 am

Quoting wn676 (Reply 17):
Check your PM inbox, by the way.

Thanks, I appreciate it!

Quoting wn676 (Reply 17):
Someone is bound to start it eventually though so long as the economy continues to mature in the Valley, and as you indicated, aircraft like the 787 are a good fit for routes like these and probably greatly increase our chances here.

You're right, and I'm not talking about an immediate announcement, I can feasibly see it down the road in about 5 years, say if the economy picks back up and PHX begins to expand wildly again, without me being totally surprised. I'd be really surprised if the route was to be announced between tomorrow and the next 2 or 3 years ...
(pleasantly of course.....oh, who am I kidding, I'd be joyously celebrating with champagne and Asian women       )
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aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:50 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):

You're right, and I'm not talking about an immediate announcement, I can feasibly see it down the road in about 5 years, say if the economy picks back up and PHX begins to expand wildly again, without me being totally surprised. I'd be really surprised if the route was to be announced between tomorrow and the next 2 or 3 years ...

One also has to wonder if JAL going into SAN is a judge on smaller markets. I would also wonder if JAL would do a version of the BA LHR-PHX-SAN, but do NRT-SAN-PHX?

I agree that we will probably not see a 787 anytime soon, but we all can hope....

What will BA use once they retire the 747? I know they have the 380 on order, but I would think that the 777 would be coming back to PHX with the retirement of the 744. Talking to some British nationals the other day on top of T-4 they said that the flights are almost always full.
 
Raventech
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:56 pm

Assuming that the yeilds are good on LHR-PHX then I would imagine they would go 777-300ER or if the go 200 then they probably add a couple flights per week to maintain capacity.
 
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treebeard787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:51 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 19):
What will BA use once they retire the 747? I know they have the 380 on order, but I would think that the 777 would be coming back to PHX with the retirement of the 744. Talking to some British nationals the other day on top of T-4 they said that the flights are almost always full.

I think BA does very well here in PHX, they have been serving this market for the last 16 years now and have only used aircraft smaller then the 744 on two occasions, first with a DC-10 from 1996 to 1998 then a 772 around 2003-04. I imagine once the 744 is finally withdrawn from service with BA I think something like a daily 77W would be a good match for LHR-PHX, especially if US moves to One World in a merger with AA. BA still has 57 744s active so it will be several years before they are all withdrawn, and I could see PHX being one of the last cities to see the 747 from BA.
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PHX787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:03 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 19):
What will BA use once they retire the 747? I know they have the 380 on order, but I would think that the 777 would be coming back to PHX with the retirement of the 744. Talking to some British nationals the other day on top of T-4 they said that the flights are almost always full.
Quoting RavenTech (Reply 20):
Assuming that the yeilds are good on LHR-PHX then I would imagine they would go 777-300ER or if the go 200 then they probably add a couple flights per week to maintain capacity.
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 21):
I think BA does very well here in PHX,

They do indeed. Once the 744 is withdrawn, we could probably see Terminal 4 upgraded enough to support an A380 or BA taking orders of the 748. If not, then the 77W just screams this route.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 19):
One also has to wonder if JAL going into SAN is a judge on smaller markets. I would also wonder if JAL would do a version of the BA LHR-PHX-SAN, but do NRT-SAN-PHX?

Rumor has it that when the JL pilot flew in here back in March to pick up the Mariners for the game in Tokyo, he questioned why their airline never flew here, because of the perfect weather  
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chrisair
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
Rumor has it that when the JL pilot flew in here back in March to pick up the Mariners for the game in Tokyo, he questioned why their airline never flew here, because of the perfect weather  

Just what we need. More tourists coming for the weather. I'm already seeing more Minnesota, Alberta, Iowa etc plates in the Valley and here in Tucson. Time to prepare for the people driving 55 in the fast lane on the 10...
 
aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:10 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):

They do indeed. Once the 744 is withdrawn, we could probably see Terminal 4 upgraded enough to support an A380 or BA taking orders of the 748. If not, then the 77W just screams this route.

380 No way and they opted for the 380 over the 748, so this would surmise that the 77W will probably be plying the sky's when the 744 is removed from service.


Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 21):
I think BA does very well here in PHX, they have been serving this market for the last 16 years now and have only used aircraft smaller then the 744 on two occasions,

Agree, the last time I checked there was a $200 per trip premium.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
Rumor has it that when the JL pilot flew in here back in March to pick up the Mariners for the game in Tokyo, he questioned why their airline never flew here, because of the perfect weather

Would they say the same thing in June and July when we are baking in our own juices?

Quoting chrisair (Reply 23):
Just what we need. More tourists coming for the weather. I'm already seeing more Minnesota, Alberta, Iowa etc plates in the Valley and here in Tucson. Time to prepare for the people driving 55 in the fast lane on the 10...

That is great and as a long time resident, totally accurate. I love the snowbirds on I-10 at 7:00 AM driving 55 and wondering why everyone is giving them the one finger salute. Then we have the California transfers any time the ground really shakes. They then drive 95 on the city streets (no lie, say it yesterday and laughed as I pulled up to them at the next three lights.)
 
PHX787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 24):
Would they say the same thing in June and July when we are baking in our own juices?

I had a friend come here in July and she said she loved it....she loves being in a bikini though and swimming  
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 24):
That is great and as a long time resident, totally accurate. I love the snowbirds on I-10 at 7:00 AM driving 55 and wondering why everyone is giving them the one finger salute. Then we have the California transfers any time the ground really shakes. They then drive 95 on the city streets (no lie, say it yesterday and laughed as I pulled up to them at the next three lights.)

Glad you don't give an Ohio native like me s*** for driving  
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dlramp4life
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:30 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
Glad you don't give an Ohio native like me s*** for driving  

Your not over the age of 65 and drive a 2003 Buick or do you??

Quoting RavenTech (Reply 20):

But that won't be happening anytime soon, they 747 is performing quite well for BA in PHX. The flight loads are good with people and cargo. The BA 747 will be sticking around for a while in PHX, espically when they are going everyday on the route starting in December(please correct me if I am wrong).
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chrisair
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
Glad you don't give an Ohio native like me s*** for driving

Depends on which plates grace your car. Are they the cool ones or the Beautiful Ohio ones? Or the best one of all: the Arizona Centennial one.  
 
PHX787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:30 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 26):
Your not over the age of 65 and drive a 2003 Buick or do you??
Quoting chrisair (Reply 27):
Depends on which plates grace your car. Are they the cool ones or the Beautiful Ohio ones? Or the best one of all: the Arizona Centennial one.

Beautiful Ohio plates, 03 Honda and I'm 21  
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 26):
The BA 747 will be sticking around for a while in PHX, espically when they are going everyday on the route starting in December(please correct me if I am wrong).

That is correct, I believe it's Dec. 6
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aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:51 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
Glad you don't give an Ohio native like me s*** for driving

As long as you do not have a insertion of your cranium in your rectum you are fine.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
I had a friend come here in July and she said she loved it....she loves being in a bikini though and swimming

That is fine and I know people that love the heat, but there are certain population that I think would not do to well in the AZ sun.....

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 26):
Your not over the age of 65 and drive a 2003 Buick or do you??

Award for one of the best lines I have read on this sight.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 28):
Beautiful Ohio plates, 03 Honda and I'm 21

But do you drive 55 in the high speed lane for no apparent reason? If that is the case then Yes and move over. We also subscribe to the bigger vehicle makes the rules. People seem to get out of my way in a 4X4 that I drive.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:20 pm

Thought you guys might be interested in this. Below are the largest international O&D markets to PHX from 2011:

1) Calgary - 480 PDEW
2) Toronto - 335 PDEW
3) Vancouver - 310 PDEW
4) Edmonton - 295 PDEW
5) London - 169 PDEW
6) Mexico City - 149 PDEW
7) Winnipeg - 128 PDEW
8) Los Cabos - 124 PDEW
9) Guadalajara - 105 PDEW
10) Montreal - 99 PDEW
11) Cancun - 97 PDEW
12) Puerto Vallarta - 88 PDEW
13) Mazatlan - 86 PDEW
14) Paris - 63 PDEW
15) Saskatoon - 57 PDEW

As you can see, PHX is pretty Canada/Mexico top heavy.
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dlramp4life
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:22 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):

Thank you for posting that. US has a pretty good feed to Mexico. Air Canada and West Jet have a pretty big seasonal operation in PHX, they both have flights all day and into the night.
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PHX787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:28 pm

Thanks LAXdude1023

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
1) Calgary - 480 PDEW

Interesting. Does West Jet operate this route year long, or no?

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
5) London - 169 PDEW

Not surprising at all

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
14) Paris - 63 PDEW

Do you guys think that PHX could sustain an AF 787 flight, looking at this?
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aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
As you can see, PHX is pretty Canada/Mexico top heavy.

Yes, when the housing market went down the toliet there were a lot of Canadians that bought homes down here. I guess that is why AC and Westjet can offer year round service. Thanks for the data

Canada

1) Calgary - 480 PDEW
2) Toronto - 335 PDEW
3) Vancouver - 310 PDEW
4) Edmonton - 295 PDEW
7) Winnipeg - 128 PDEW
10) Montreal - 99 PDEW
15) Saskatoon - 57 PDEW

Mexico
6) Mexico City - 149 PDEW
8) Los Cabos - 124 PDEW
9) Guadalajara - 105 PDEW
11) Cancun - 97 PDEW
12) Puerto Vallarta - 88 PDEW
13) Mazatlan - 86 PDEW


5) London - 169 PDEW - not surprised by this one either and this is how BA can keep flying a 744 to PHX.

14) Paris - 63 PDEW - REALLY surprised by this one. I would of thought a German city would of been higher on this list.

After seeing these number I am wondering if there will be more flights to Canada and Mexico. I know AM has a very small presence in PHX so the bulk would have to be from US. I also wonder if this plays into WN's international expansion plans. I can see PHX being a key city to Mexico for them.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 32):
Do you guys think that PHX could sustain an AF 787 flight, looking at this?

I do not think so. If they did something like that I would think it could be a code share and not on AF metal. DA is their skyteam member, so I would could see something from ATL.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
1) Calgary - 480 PDEW
2) Toronto - 335 PDEW
3) Vancouver - 310 PDEW
4) Edmonton - 295 PDEW
5) London - 169 PDEW
6) Mexico City - 149 PDEW
7) Winnipeg - 128 PDEW
8) Los Cabos - 124 PDEW
9) Guadalajara - 105 PDEW
10) Montreal - 99 PDEW
11) Cancun - 97 PDEW
12) Puerto Vallarta - 88 PDEW
13) Mazatlan - 86 PDEW
14) Paris - 63 PDEW
15) Saskatoon - 57 PDEW

Clarification:

The toggle on my spreadsheet was set incorrectly. Those are round trip numbers. So you need to cut them in half to get the each direction number. For example PHXCDG is 31-32 PDEW.

Still the same point though. PHX is a very Mexico/Canada top heavy market with the exception of London. And PHX already has a flight there.

[Edited 2012-10-27 13:52:35]
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LAXdude1023
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:01 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 32):
Do you guys think that PHX could sustain an AF 787 flight, looking at this?

PHXCDG is actually larger than CLTCDG or CVGCDG.

But the average paid fare is far lower than either of those markets.
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aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:22 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 16):
I asked about 100 people this: 1) How do you normally get to Asia if you're traveling there, and almost all say LAX-NRT and about 60% of those say NRT is their final destination.
2) Would you fly a PHX-NRT direct route if such a route was given? and the response was an overwhelming yes.
3) Would price matter for such a route? And about 10% said yes, and 80% said no. 10 said unsure.
4) Do you think this would be a good route for the businesses here in Arizona? and the overwhelming response was yes.

The problem is that this is not really scientific. You are dealing with a population that has a vested interest in travel to and from PHX. You will find out (from ASU) that the proper poll would have to be a blind sample of greater than 100,000 people to come to any conclusion and this would still not be a scientifically significant sample. To gain a good sample size it must be at 10% of the population or higher.

With that being said, I am wondering if a Chinese Airlines would come to PHX. With Intel, Raython, Honeywell, Boeing and other technology company's having such a presence be a more logical choice?

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 35):
PHXCDG is actually larger than CLTCDG or CVGCDG.

But the average paid fare is far lower than either of those markets.

That is because of our governor took a trip to Europe to aid in trade with Arizona.... Yeah, that is the ticket......She helped this statistic.
 
PHX787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:00 pm

Anyone else see what was on fire near the airport this morning around 8:30? There was so much smoke in that area but ops looked normal. I was driving across the lake on Rural on my way to school and I couldn't see much though.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 36):
With that being said, I am wondering if a Chinese Airlines would come to PHX. With Intel, Raython, Honeywell, Boeing and other technology company's having such a presence be a more logical choice?

CZ could probably make that happen with their 787
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PHX787
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:58 am

Anyone else hear a rumor of the AN-225 being sent to AZA to pick up apaches?

I heard that from a number of people today (spotters, this time) but I have no clue.

Anyway, thread's been quiet recently. Nothing too surprising on the OAG threads.

Is it normal for the BA 744 to be operating later these days? It's been tough trying to catch it land because it lands past sunset.
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dlramp4life
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:37 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):

Anyone else hear a rumor of the AN-225 being sent to AZA to pick up apaches?

It always comes in and out of AZA time and time again to pick up apaches from Boeing. Where they are going? Don't know, I have heard the middle east though.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):
Is it normal for the BA 744 to be operating later these days? It's been tough trying to catch it land because it lands past sunset.

It usually does land past sunset during the winter.
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LAXdude1023
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:21 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 37):

Based on fare data and PHX-China O&D, there is no aircraft for which PHX-China could work.
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neveragain
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:37 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
I think BA does very well here in PHX,

They do indeed. Once the 744 is withdrawn, we could probably see Terminal 4 upgraded enough to support an A380 or BA taking orders of the 748. If not, then the 77W just screams this route.

Certainly upgrades would be required to the airfield and stand configuration...but what upgrades do you think are required to the terminal? Besides loading bridges capabile of handling the A380, there do not appear to be significant other requirements for a single daily A380 flight that would be required. Whether the FIS could handle that volume of passengers would be entirely based on the scheduling of other international arriving flights at the same time...so would concede it is a potential issue but would be based on other circumstances. Otherwise the T4 bagroom could certainly handle the additional outbound load. Same thing for the ticket counters, departure concourse, etc.

Given that the City of Phoenix has moved on from terminal expansions along the lines of the West Terminal (as WN remains vehemently opposed to this development and they would need to be the key tenant in the facility, plus slowing traffic growth and increased risk factors associated with the US Airways hub), the FIS issue could be resolved through construction of a second FIS to be used by non-US Airways carriers in Terminal 3. An alternative consideration is to locate the FIS on the site of the former rental car garage (west of the T4 processor in between Sky Harbor Blvd) and make it accessible to both the N1 and (potential) S1 concourses. That development would more likely be driven by WN plans for international services from PHX more than anything else.

Even with a US-AA merger and increased code-sharing potential BA-US over PHX, one has to consider the relatively limited unique destinations that this would provide to BA that aren't already accessible over DFW and California hubs.
 
neveragain
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:50 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 39):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):
Is it normal for the BA 744 to be operating later these days? It's been tough trying to catch it land because it lands past sunset.

It usually does land past sunset during the winter.

   Schedule change associated with the end of British Summer Time (happened last Sunday 28 October) and implementation of the BA winter schedule. From 31 March 2013, the route returns to summer schedule.

Arrival times in PHX:
Summer: 17:10
Winter: 18:45

Don't forget that the time difference between LHR and PHX reduces by one hour for the entire time the UK is off of summer time (unlike most other US markets, which revert to the standard time zone differences once the US daylight savings time ends in November).
 
4holer
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:55 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 39):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):

Anyone else hear a rumor of the AN-225 being sent to AZA to pick up apaches?

It always comes in and out of AZA time and time again to pick up apaches from Boeing. Where they are going? Don't know, I have heard the middle east though.

As far as I'm aware, it's been here exactly one time. That was to drop off a transformer or something.
Not sure why they would send the AN-225 instead of the AN-124. It is usually only tasked with jobs that it is uniquely capable of doing. I'd love to see it, but would be somewhat surprised if it were picking up Apaches.
Edit: Also, why would it need to stop in Houston?

[Edited 2012-10-31 07:30:24]
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aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 39):
It always comes in and out of AZA time and time again to pick up apaches from Boeing. Where they are going? Don't know, I have heard the middle east though.

Saw it this summer and it was going to Saudi after picking up the AH-64's in Mesa

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):
Anyone else hear a rumor of the AN-225 being sent to AZA to pick up apaches?

That is normally an AN-124 not an AN-225

Quoting neveragain (Reply 41):
Given that the City of Phoenix has moved on from terminal expansions along the lines of the West Terminal (as WN remains vehemently opposed to this development and they would need to be the key tenant in the facility, plus slowing traffic growth and increased risk factors associated with the US Airways hub), the FIS issue could be resolved through construction of a second FIS to be used by non-US Airways carriers in Terminal 3. An alternative consideration is to locate the FIS on the site of the former rental car garage (west of the T4 processor in between Sky Harbor Blvd) and make it accessible to both the N1 and (potential) S1 concourses. That development would more likely be driven by WN plans for international services from PHX more than anything else.

Which makes me wonder IF US and AA merge would they flip WN from the south to the north to give them more gates as well as quicker access to the international terminal? What would this do to the layout of T-3 also would be an interesting quandary. Would they close T-2 and move all of the carriers over to T-3. This would allow T-2 to be upgraded or built anew.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 43):
As far as I'm aware, it's been here exactly one time. That was to drop off a transformer or something. Not sure why they would send the AN-225 instead of the AN-124. It is usually only tasked with jobs that it is uniquely capable of doing. I'd love to see it, but would be somewhat surprised if it were picking up Apaches.
Edit: Also, why would it need to stop in Houston?

Agree and you were correct. They dropped of a transformer that was urgently needed and was too costly to ship by land. I would expect that they are dropping off at AZA and picking up something new in Huston.
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:08 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 41):
Given that the City of Phoenix has moved on from terminal expansions along the lines of the West Terminal (as WN remains vehemently opposed to this development and they would need to be the key tenant in the facility, plus slowing traffic growth and increased risk factors associated with the US Airways hub), the FIS issue could be resolved through construction of a second FIS to be used by non-US Airways carriers in Terminal 3. An alternative consideration is to locate the FIS on the site of the former rental car garage (west of the T4 processor in between Sky Harbor Blvd) and make it accessible to both the N1 and (potential) S1 concourses. That development would more likely be driven by WN plans for international services from PHX more than anything else.

Never though of it like that before... I mean if the merger happens the only air carriers out of T3 north would be B6 and HAL. I always thought UA would come over and take over the north side if AA leaves. Which would mean no more T2 which according to the master plan should have been gone years ago. How could they build an FIS on T3 though? I am not opposing the idea and infact I like it but I just don't see how it could work.. Plus I don't think a 747 could park on the gates down on the south end without blocking the alley to other gates.. Never thought of that, and if it did happen put B6 over on the north end with DL,HA(if they ever move),AS(if they ever move), and F9(if they are still in business)

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 44):
Which makes me wonder IF US and AA merge would they flip WN from the south to the north to give them more gates as well as quicker access to the international terminal? What would this do to the layout of T-3 also would be an interesting quandary. Would they close T-2 and move all of the carriers over to T-3. This would allow T-2 to be upgraded or built anew.

        
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mach2is2slowaz
Posts: 62
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:09 pm

Any word on the AN-225 or AN124 visit to KIWA?

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 44):

Quoting 4holer (Reply 43):As far as I'm aware, it's been here exactly one time. That was to drop off a transformer or something. Not sure why they would send the AN-225 instead of the AN-124. It is usually only tasked with jobs that it is uniquely capable of doing. I'd love to see it, but would be somewhat surprised if it were picking up Apaches.
Edit: Also, why would it need to stop in Houston?
Agree and you were correct. They dropped of a transformer that was urgently needed and was too costly to ship by land. I would expect that they are dropping off at AZA and picking up something new in Huston.

  
 
Raventech
Posts: 132
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:45 pm

Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 46):

I believe its a false alarm, only Antonov on flight aware in America left Tulsa for Manchester this morning.

http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A124
 
neveragain
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 45):
Never though of it like that before... I mean if the merger happens the only air carriers out of T3 north would be B6 and HAL. I always thought UA would come over and take over the north side if AA leaves. Which would mean no more T2 which according to the master plan should have been gone years ago. How could they build an FIS on T3 though? I am not opposing the idea and infact I like it but I just don't see how it could work.. Plus I don't think a 747 could park on the gates down on the south end without blocking the alley to other gates.. Never thought of that, and if it did happen put B6 over on the north end with DL,HA(if they ever move),AS(if they ever move), and F9(if they are still in business)

Precisely. While I don't necessarily believe the airline re-shuffling as described in your post is the optimal layout from a facility-use perspective, I do believe you understand the bigger picture here, which is that ongoing airline consolidation will allow -- eventually -- Terminal 2 to be closed and the remaining airlines to be accommodated in Terminals 3 and 4. Who goes where could be handled in many different ways, particularly if expansions were considered to either the north or south concourses of Terminal 3 (not extensions, but expansions). If Terminal 2 were shuttered, Sky Harbor Blvd could be realigned on the west end of the airport, the interchange with I-10 reconfigured, and Terminal 3 (and a future FIS!?!?) expanded westward onto the site of the former ATC and beyond.

I'm not necessarily saying this will happen, but it certainly is a viable option and, in the context of the existing industry and economic environment, much more plausible that holding out for a big-build West Terminal style expansion. PHX has a lot of good options to expand its terminal capacity and remain flexible for any major shakeup to its hubbing airlines, positive or negative.
 
4holer
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RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3

Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:23 am

There it goes!
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ADB2350

Could still see an AN124 if Apaches are ready to deliver!
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