FlySSC
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AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:25 am

Starting May 21 2013, and until Sept 2013, Air France will operate a 5 X Weekly nonstop flight between Paris CDG and Minneapolis with an A343.

MSP will be the 11th destiantion in the U.S for AF.

AF694 CDG 13h50 ---> MSP 16h05 Daily except Sa / Mo

AF697 MSP 20h00 ---> CDG 11h25 Daily except Sa / Mo

 
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RWA380
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:29 am

Wow, it makes some sense, just surprised by this considering the lack of pre-announcement chatter, Good for AF & DL.
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floridaflyboy
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:30 am

Is this in addition to or in place of DL's flight?
Good goes around!
 
FlySSC
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:31 am

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 2):
Is this in addition to or in place of DL's flight?

This is in addition to the Daily DL flight.
 
jfk777
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:33 am

What took them so long ? KLM has been in the AF group since 2004, with all the NW flights to Amsterdam you would think AF would want some of that gravy train.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:56 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
What took them so long ? KLM has been in the AF group since 2004, with all the NW flights to Amsterdam you would think AF would want some of that gravy train.

The fact hat they are starting seasonal 5 weekly service pretty much answers your question. AF will be testing the waters with this flight.

It should do ok, but with AF already serving DTW, it might hurt their operations there.

Thenoflyzone
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FlyingHollander
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:23 pm

Why don't Air France and KLM let Delta operate flights to MSP, DTW, ATL etc. and operate destinations like SEA, PHL BOS, etc. themselves?
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:26 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
What took them so long ? KLM has been in the AF group since 2004, with all the NW flights to Amsterdam you would think AF would want some of that gravy train.

NW only started flying MSP-CDG in Summer 2008 and at first it was only seasonal. It was not until post-merger when DL maintained MSP-CDG year-round.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 5):

The fact hat they are starting seasonal 5 weekly service pretty much answers your question. AF will be testing the waters with this flight.

It should do ok, but with AF already serving DTW, it might hurt their operations there.

It's not AF, it is Skyteam. DL and AF operate "as one" across the Atlantic. They coordinate flights and share revenue and cost. It's a joint-venture.

DL and AF, decided together to add more capacity this summer to MSP-CDG, so they are adding the additional 5x weekly AF flights, in addition to the DL daily flight.

It has nothing to do with "testing the waters" they are metal-neutral. Part of the Joint Venture requires DL and AF to keep a balance in the number of flights/ASMs, hence why you see some operated by AF and some operated by DL. The decision to whether it is an AF or DL operated flight depends on the most appropriate aircraft type, capacity, aircraft availability, and operational decisions.
 
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:30 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 6):

The spirit of a JV is that all flights in it are DL flights and are AF flights, etc. regardless of whose metal is flying it. It really allows them to better fit capacity to the market. For example, AF doesn't have 757's, so DL operates PHL and PIT. On the other hand, AF has the 77W which may be better suited to another market. They're essentially behaving as one airline over the Atlantic.
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Cubsrule
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:32 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 6):
Why don't Air France and KLM let Delta operate flights to MSP, DTW, ATL etc. and operate destinations like SEA, PHL BOS, etc. themselves?

Equipment. The AF 343 is pretty close in configuration to the 333 (30/21/224, versus 34/32/232 for the 333), but DL doesn't have many 333s and the 76T, which is configured 36/29/143, is quite a bit smaller and more premium than the 333/343.
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:38 pm

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 8):
AF doesn't have 757's

I forgot they we're using 757's om some routes, that makes sense then.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
DL doesn't have many 333s and the 76T

These aircraft, however, are being used on flights such as AMS-PDX/SEA/BOS.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:46 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 10):
These aircraft, however, are being used on flights such as AMS-PDX/SEA/BOS.

Sure, as they have been for a decade. What's wrong with having their TATL hub service focused on AMS rather than CDG?
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 6):
Why don't Air France and KLM let Delta operate flights to MSP, DTW, ATL etc. and operate destinations like SEA, PHL BOS, etc. themselves?

Why should AF/KL let DL operate to MSP,DTW, and ATL. and operate to SEA,PHL and BOS themselves,since all flight are joint venture and metal neutral?
 
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:54 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
Sure, as they have been for a decade. What's wrong with having their TATL hub service focused on AMS rather than CDG?

I meant that if DL were not operating these routes themselves then they could use these planes on a route like MSP-CDG. If KL and AF operate flights from their hubs to cities other that the DL hubs then DL would't need the European hubs. Isn't being able to let you partner airlines handle flying from their hub without losing your business what JVs are about?
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:58 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 13):
I meant that if DL were not operating these routes themselves then they could use these planes on a route like MSP-CDG.

What does that accomplish in a metal-neutral JV?

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 13):
Isn't being able to let you partner airlines handle flying from their hub without losing your business what JVs are about?

Sure, but CDG and AMS function as DL hubs with regard to aircraft routing, as they have (in the case of AMS/NW) for years.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
bnatraveler
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:01 pm

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 8):
The spirit of a JV is that all flights in it are DL flights and are AF flights, etc. regardless of whose metal is flying it. It really allows them to better fit capacity to the market. For example, AF doesn't have 757's, so DL operates PHL and PIT. On the other hand, AF has the 77W which may be better suited to another market. They're essentially behaving as one airline over the Atlantic.

I absolutely agree in terms of the spirit of the JV; they have fully implemented the "spirit" operationally, but *not* from a customer service perspective. AF and DL upgrade (mileage and other) policies are not aligned, AF offers a truly differentiated Premium Voyageur service whereas Delta's Economy Comfort is simply more legroom and a slightly different alcohol policy from economy. I have no problems flying AF over DL and vice-versa, but if they are going to intersperse different customer service environments on the same routes then they will confuse/upset customers.

Bottom line, if you make it one airline, with only operationally different paint/equipment then you need to truly align the customer experience too.
 
SJCMSP
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:20 pm

Wow, I'm somewhat surprised to see this for some reason. I look forward to seeing AF here and I look forward to seeing the A343 at MSP!
 
premobrimo
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Now this news release from Delta makes sense!

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincitie...elta-to-fly-from-msp-to-paris.html

It mentions nothing about Air France, but it says there will be additional flight from MSP to CDG
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FlySSC
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:37 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
5 X Weekly

Will be operated DAILY between June 17 and Sept. 1st.
 
burnsie28
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:14 pm

Quoting BNAtraveler (Reply 15):
Bottom line, if you make it one airline, with only operationally different paint/equipment then you need to truly align the customer experience too.

NW and KL had this down to a nail, the new WBC were the same (slight different look on the surface) but overall pretty much one in the same.

The issue is that AF/DL are not the same as NW/KL, as AF wants to have their certain products one way and Delta another, I don't think you will ever see these fully integrated.
 
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 6):
Why don't Air France and KLM let Delta operate flights to MSP, DTW, ATL etc. and operate destinations like SEA, PHL BOS, etc. themselves?

Oh what I wouldn't give for AF to start service to PHL again. I'm not referring to the JV service with DL which some people insist on claiming "its all the same with the JV". No it isn't! I miss flying AF's 330s and AF's service to PHL. It was a sad day when I heard they discontinued PHL. Also, it would be nice to see another international tale in PHL. All it has now is LH and BA.
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IrishAyes
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:37 pm

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 19):
The issue is that AF/DL are not the same as NW/KL, as AF wants to have their certain products one way and Delta another, I don't think you will ever see these fully integrated.

Nope. It's the same situation with LH/UA/AC, UA/NH and AA/BA/IB, etc. The so-called "alignment" and "benefits" are more intangible than tangible, and especially with regards to the customer experience.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 12):
Why should AF/KL let DL operate to MSP,DTW, and ATL. and operate to SEA,PHL and BOS themselves,since all flight are joint venture and metal neutral?

I think its measured on a case-by-case basis. I know in SEA's case, DL has really been flexing its muscles in the local market and has carved out a nice niche for itself via its strong partnership with AS as well as bolstering its service to Asia. AF did not have the same kind of partnership with AS, so it made more sense for DL to take over the route given metal neutrality.

BOS still sees service on both AF and DL, similar to JFK, ATL, DTW and now MSP.

Cities like EWR, PHL and PIT are spoke cities for AF/KL, not SkyTeam hubs. I'd imagine that *perhaps* there is enough O&D + connecting traffic, as well as SkyTeam loyalty, to justify service from those spokes to CDG and AMS on smaller aircraft with lower operating costs - which makes DL a better fit.

Anyways, at the end of the day, the TATL routes operated by NW/KL and DL/AF have always seemed like musical chairs to me. It got even weirder when the Indian routes to BOM and DEL were eventually included in the JV agreements, as well as PPT from LAX.
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af773atmsp
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:48 pm

I'm quite surprised by this announcement. Happy to see this will be operated by an A340, more aircraft variety for MSP! Maybe I'll get lucky and AF will bring a 773ER to MSP once.  

Hope they do well to Minneapolis!
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airproxx
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:49 pm

I'd prefer let DL operate DTW and MSP, and AF keep SEA and ORD....
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MSPNWA
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:00 pm

Awesome! Been a long time since MSP saw an addition this big (literally). Haven't had a large foreign carrier here in a long time. I believe it will be the only scheduled 4-engine airplane too. And is this the the first scheduled A340 to MSP? At any rate, very exciting. I'll have to see spot this one a few times!
 
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:35 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):

Thanks for the info.
Will the A343s be refurbished, just like the 744s. They have pretty old seats in Y IIRC
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 8):
The spirit of a JV is that all flights in it are DL flights and are AF flights, etc. regardless of whose metal is flying it. It really allows them to better fit capacity to the market. For example, AF doesn't have 757's, so DL operates PHL and PIT. On the other hand, AF has the 77W which may be better suited to another market. They're essentially behaving as one airline over the Atlantic.

  

I'm a bit surprised that UA and LH haven't done this. There are some routes that LH has tried that were too small for the A330/340, but might have worked with a 763 operated by UA. I'm particularly thinking of DEN-MUC and PDX-FRA. I'm not sure about the yields on CLT-MUC, but this might also be optimised by using a 763.

Perhaps with the conversion of the entire UA 763 fleet to both the 3 class and 2 class international configuration, maybe the Star Alliance JV partners will come to the table and talk about doing what their SkyTeam counterparts have been doing.
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Cubsrule
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:42 pm

Quoting AussieItaliano (Reply 26):
There are some routes that LH has tried that were too small for the A330/340, but might have worked with a 763 operated by UA. I'm particularly thinking of DEN-MUC and PDX-FRA. I'm not sure about the yields on CLT-MUC, but this might also be optimised by using a 763.

I think you identified the problem yourself. The three class 763 is/was far too premium an airplane for DEN-MUC, PDX-FRA or CLT-MUC.
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floridaflyboy
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:00 pm

Quoting BNAtraveler (Reply 15):

I absolutely agree in terms of the spirit of the JV; they have fully implemented the "spirit" operationally, but *not* from a customer service perspective.

Couldn't agree with you more. The question my post was in reference to was regarding aircraft selection and operations, so I was responding with that theme in mind.

As Burnsie pointed out, NW/KL had this down to an art, but of course they had been at it a long time. I guess time will tell if DL/AF align better over time.
Good goes around!
 
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treebeard787
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:39 pm

Very cool, the AF A343 will be a very welcome visitor to MSP. I remember when KLM used to fly 747s on MSP-AMS so seeing another foreign carrier other then FI will be cool. Hopefully it will do well.
Allons-y!
 
Flighty
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:35 pm

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 29):
I remember when KLM used to fly 747s on MSP-AMS so seeing another foreign carrier other then FI will be cool. Hopefully it will do well.

They also flew MD-11 on the route, as recently as 2004.
 
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:42 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 5):
The fact hat they are starting seasonal 5 weekly service pretty much answers your question. AF will be testing the waters with this flight.

It should do ok, but with AF already serving DTW, it might hurt their operations there.

Thenoflyzone

Both flights will be mainly hub-to-hub, so I see nothing competing against DTW there. Also keep in mind that a new DTW-CDG service just got started last year by DL, complementing the existing AF service. If that would have hurt yields enough, they would not do it again on their other Midwestern hub.

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 6):
Why don't Air France and KLM let Delta operate flights to MSP, DTW, ATL etc. and operate destinations like SEA, PHL BOS, etc. themselves?

If anything, it brings more options to the customer. DL and AF-KL are a joint venture from the outside, but they maintain a different product for the customer, although they are getting closer to what they were (for the most part through cuts to AF service!). I would always try AF in the hope pf being upgraded to W, which is a great product. Unless of course, AF only has a 777 to offer, in which case I would prefer DL metal.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 24):
And is this the the first scheduled A340 to MSP?

In all likelihood yes. I really can't think of any carrier that would have flown their A340s to MSP. There are very few intercontinental flights out of MSP that are not DL (and formerly NW) to begin with.
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mplsjefe
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:52 pm

Quoting af773atmsp (Reply 22):
I'm quite surprised by this announcement. Happy to see this will be operated by an A340, more aircraft variety for MSP! Maybe I'll get lucky and AF will bring a 773ER to MSP once.

Hope they do well to Minneapolis!

Agreed! This is some unexpected great news for MSP! . . . although I really hope they keep those 3-4-3 777ERs away from here.
 
Continental
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:52 am

Interesting departure time. Makes sense though as the DL flight is about 4 hours earlier. That covers a good deal of connecting flights on both ends.
 
mplsjefe
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:21 am

Wikipedia says this flight will operate out of concourse E at MSP. Assuming that is true, does concourse E already have gate facilities that can handle an A340? I should know the answer to this, but I actually never seem to be in concourse E...
 
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:29 am

Quoting mplsjefe (Reply 34):
Wikipedia says this flight will operate out of concourse E at MSP. Assuming that is true, does concourse E already have gate facilities that can handle an A340? I should know the answer to this, but I actually never seem to be in concourse E...

AF will operate from G (that is where the FIS is). DL is doing the ground handling. Wikipedia is just wrong.
 
mplsjefe
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:50 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 35):

AF will operate from G (that is where the FIS is). DL is doing the ground handling. Wikipedia is just wrong.

Thanks. That is what I figured.
 
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treebeard787
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:46 am

Quoting mplsjefe (Reply 34):
Wikipedia says this flight will operate out of concourse E at MSP. Assuming that is true, does concourse E already have gate facilities that can handle an A340? I should know the answer to this, but I actually never seem to be in concourse E...

As has been stated already, AF will use a gate on G. Gate E-10 does have a taxiway marker for parking a 747 but I have never seen anything bigger then a 757 park there before and there is no FIS at E either.

[Edited 2012-10-24 18:48:52]
Allons-y!
 
MSPNWA
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:59 am

Quoting mplsjefe (Reply 34):
Wikipedia says this flight will operate out of concourse E at MSP.

E isn't even a Delta concourse. There's Wikipedia for you.

I wonder if the flight will use gate G4. The NRT flight should be gone by then. Either way G will have a nice white tail in the lineup.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:51 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 21):
I'd imagine that *perhaps* there is enough O&D + connecting traffic, as well as SkyTeam loyalty

For PHL/PIT/EWR, that's really wishful thinking. Very tough markets for DL, but there are obviously things they can do to get the business. For one thing, flying 757s and 763s out of those markets does help

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 38):
E isn't even a Delta concourse.

From a historical perspective it WAS the DL concourse before the merger. It's amazing how quickly those gates were forgotten.
 
premobrimo
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:36 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 39):

Delta = Northwest in MSP. Why would they care about their 2 old gates on E when they gain 80+ gates on A,B,C,D,G and F???
Now You're Flying Smart.
 
SJCMSP
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 39):
From a historical perspective it WAS the DL concourse before the merger. It's amazing how quickly those gates were forgotten.

Last time I flew out of those E gates on DL, there was still a Western sticker in the jet way.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe Great Lakes is using their old gates.
 
roseflyer
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:31 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 6):
Why don't Air France and KLM let Delta operate flights to MSP, DTW, ATL etc. and operate destinations like SEA, PHL BOS, etc. themselves?

DL and AF are allowed to coordinate schedules. I believe there are some scope requirements associated with the joint venture and the union contracts that limit each operator to a certain percentage of the total seats. For that reason, we see some routes move back and forth between the two carriers. DL’s fleet is biased towards smaller airplanes with 757s and 767s, while AF is biased towards larger airplanes with 77Ws and A380s. To keep the seat count in check there is some movement between AF’s A330/A340 and DL A330s since they have almost identical configurations. With AF bringing A380s to the US, they had to drop some routes.

As far as which route sees which metal, it is DL calling the shots for the most part when it is equal airplane size. AF has a very simple to manage international network since every flight goes to CDG. DL has a dozen international gateways, so managing their fleet is far harder. SEA is up to seasonally as many as 5 long haul 767 routes (PVG, PEK, KIX, AMS & CDG), so it may make more sense for DL to operate the route and the smaller 767 might make sense. It is similarly true for PHL and BOS. DL can operate smaller routes to keep frequency up whereas AF may have to cut frequency since they don’t have smaller international equipment.
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kyrone
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:13 pm

I find it interesting how AF and DL are operating these schedules.

It seems like LH and UA have it down to a science with coordinating schedules and being able to both operate the same route.

Its like AF and DL are more sharing routes on a seasonal basis.
 
af773atmsp
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:32 pm

http://www.startribune.com/business/175709521.html

Somewhat related to the AF to MSP announcement, interesting article about the growing number of international travelers at MSP.
It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
 
neveragain
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:54 pm

Quoting af773atmsp (Reply 44):
Somewhat related to the AF to MSP announcement, interesting article about the growing number of international travelers at MSP.

The MSP metro area shouldn't take any consolation in these numbers. A 6.2% growth rate from 2003 to 2011 when the number of international enplaned passengers in the U.S. grew by a third means MSP fared way worse than average.

It's lost in this article, which implies that the data are measuring MSP's status as an "international hub," but the 6.2% growth rate is measuring 2-way international O&D MIDT data. This rate works out to be an average growth rate of 0.8% per year. T100 data for MSP shows that international enplaned (originating and connecting) passenger numbers at MSP actually decreased 2.9% between 2003 and 2011. Even the Brookings number ranks MSP 59th out of 90 as the fastest growing U.S. metro areas as measured by international O&D traffic during this period. That's hardly "[holding] its own over the last decade as a hub for international air travel" as stated in the Star Tribune article.

In any case, one should expect that comparing one's self with Cincinnati, Detroit, and Philadelphia will result in the MSP metro area having higher growth in international O&D traffic because it's generally economically healthier than these regions. In fact, if MSP considers Detroit a "peer market" (presumably only because it is a former NW hub as well--probably a demonstration that the reporter didn't even fully understand what was being measured), than it should be no surprise that it'll always come out on top. I would think MSP would want to compare itself with metro areas like Atlanta (39.9% growth in international O&D traffic over the same period), Chicago (23.0%) Dallas-Fort Worth (24.1%), Washington (41.1%), and Houston (53.6%).

Really sloppy, boosterish reporting, but can be expected from any local newspaper these days.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation
 
mplsjefe
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:30 am

RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:58 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 45):
I would think MSP would want to compare itself with metro areas like Atlanta (39.9% growth in international O&D traffic over the same period), Chicago (23.0%) Dallas-Fort Worth (24.1%), Washington (41.1%), and Houston (53.6%).

MSP, as a metro area, is not even close to the size of the others you mention. Furthermore, all of those airports are premier international gateways for the legacy carriers (ATL - DL, ORD - AA and UA, DFW - AA, IAD - UA, IAH - UA).

MSP comparing itself to ATL/ORD/DFW/IAD/IAH is comparing apples to oranges.
 
Flighty
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:16 am

Quoting neveragain (Reply 45):
I would think MSP would want to compare itself with metro areas like Atlanta (39.9% growth in international O&D traffic over the same period), Chicago (23.0%) Dallas-Fort Worth (24.1%), Washington (41.1%), and Houston (53.6%).

Yeah... or London or Tokyo perhaps (????)

The measurement itself isn't worth it. There are about 10 variables here, and you're mentioning maybe one (if that). Let's say LAS had a 395% international O&D rise. Is that important? Not that important.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:36 am

Quoting neveragain (Reply 45):
The MSP metro area shouldn't take any consolation in these numbers. A 6.2% growth rate from 2003 to 2011 when the number of international enplaned passengers in the U.S. grew by a third means MSP fared way worse than average.

I read that article too and thought that the numbers given were in no way a positive for MSP.

Quoting mplsjefe (Reply 46):
MSP, as a metro area, is not even close to the size of the others you mention.

Since we're talking about growth rate and not total passengers, metro size shouldn't be a limiting factor for any comparison. The fact that MSP is so far behind ATL, which is a great comparison city for example, is alarming.
 
eva777sea
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Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: AF Opens CDG-MSP (May 21 2013)

Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:19 am

Quoting mplsjefe (Reply 46):

An apples to apples comparison then might be SEA, which grew by 42.8% over the same period. I agree with neveragain, the article was misleading and came across as boosterism.