iowaman
Topic Author
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WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:47 pm

Southwest Airlines will have a schedule release November 19th which will cover from June 1, 2013 through August 9, 2013. This is an exciting time for Southwest Airlines with the merger integration in progress. Please feel free to share any merger or route related news or information that may add to the discussion. I did my best below to gather information below, but I can not guarantee it's accuracy nor that it is all there. The seasonal routes below are for Spring and not this Winter (sorry, I've spent enough time just gathering all of this)! I did not include previously started service (such as DSM-MDW) started before today's date. All the routes below have been previously announced.

FL cities not part of the WN system and not announced yet (but will be at some point):

Domestic:
MEM
GRR
PNS
RIC
ICT
SJU

International:
AUA
BDA
CUN
MEX
MBJ
NAS
PUJ
SJD

New upcoming routes already announced:
MCO-MSP (starts November 4, replacing FL)
MKE-MSP (starts November 4, replacing FL)
EYW-MCO (starts November 4, FL deceases November 3)
EYW-TPA (starts November 4, FL deceases November 3)
EYW-MSY (starts November 4)
DAL-HRL (starts November 4)
DEN-SDF (starts November 4)
HOU-IND (starts November 4)
HOU-SNA (starts November 4)
MCI-MSY (starts November 4)
BNA-LGA (starts January 6)
MCI-MSP (starts February 14)
EWR-AUS (March 9 IIRC)
EWR-MSY (March 9 IIRC)
EWR-BNA (March 9 IIRC)
BKG-MDW (starts March 9, FL deceases March 8)
BKG-DAL (starts March 9)
BKG-HOU (starts March 9, FL deceases March 8)
BKG-MCO (Saturday only, starts March 9, FL service ends March 8)
LGA-MKE (transferring from FL in March)
CMH-TPA (transferring from FL in March)
CLT-BWI, MDW, HOU, MCO (starts April 14, all FL routes from CLT deceased April 13)
ROC-BWI, MDW, MCO, TPA (starts April 14, all FL routes from ROC deceased April 13)
FNT-BWI, MCO, TPA (starts April 14, all FL routes from FNT deceased April 13)
PWM-BWI (starts April 14, FL deceases operations April 13)
BOS-MCI (starts April 14)
HOU-PIT (starts April 14)
BWI-PUJ ( starts April 14 on FL equipment, pending government approval)

Seasonal returns (already announced for next Spring):
BWI-SEA
CLE-LAS
MCI-OAK
SAN-STL

Seasonal cuts (already announced for next Spring):
RSW-BNA
RSW-BOS
RSW-ISP
RSW-BOS
MCO-DAY
MCO-IND
PBI-PIT
PBI-PVD
TPA-GRR (FL)
RSW-DTW (FL)
RSW-GRR (FL, wouldn't be surprised if this is cut permanently)
RSW-CAK (FL, wouldn't be surprised if this is cut permanently)

Routes FL will again fly in the Spring:
BUF-FLL
MCO-MSP (transitioning to WN on Nov. 4 then goes back to FL)
PHL-PBI
PHL-RSW

Routes being cut permanently:
BOI-PDX
BUR-DEN
HOU-PHL
EWR-BWI (ends March 8)
LGA-BWI (ends Jan. 5)
RSW-FNT (FL)
ATL-FNT (FL)
ATL-CLT (FL)
ATL-ROC (FL)
BKG-ATL (FL)
BKG-BWI (FL)

New FL flights to supplement WN flights:
MCO-STL
MCO-MCI
BUF-TPA
MDW-FLL

Seasonal FL supplements to WN flights:
BOS-MKE
TPA-MDW
TPA-CMH

My guesses for the next schedule release:

ICT-DEN or MDW or possibly HOU
MEM-MDW/HOU/BWI/MCO
GRR-BWI/MCO/TPA
RIC-MDW, BNA, and/or MCO
PNS-HOU, BWI, and/or BNA

Possibly SJU service (SJU-MCO, BWI)
 
southwest737500
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:56 pm

Could we possibly see a CLT-DEN flight
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
AWACSooner
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:05 pm

DAY needs to be added onto...either MDW or MCI or BWI...same goes with PWM.
 
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enilria
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:18 pm

Well done list. I'm hearing that they are trying to cutover cities that are losing ATL service (or never had ATL service) first. Your whole list here probably fall into that group, although I think RIC needs ATL service and ATL needs cities like RIC for feed.

Quoting iowaman (Thread starter):
Domestic:
MEM
GRR
PNS
RIC
ICT
SJU

GRR: I wonder why this wasn't converted instead of FNT. The routes work better for WN code than FL code. Still BWI/MCO/FLL

MEM: I strongly doubt ATL-MEM will remain, so I think this will be a high priority for cutover. The only question is whether there will be HOU or DAL. I suspect this pattern: DAL 2x, MDW 2x, MCO 1x, BWI 2x. DEN would surprise me. HOU might supplant DAL.

PNS: Probably high on the list. I think service will be scant. HOU 2x, FLL 1x, BWI 2x

RIC: Should have ATL 3x, but I bet it loses it. Prediction: MDW 3x, MCO 1x, TPA or FLL 1x, BNA 1x

ICT: 2x DEN, 2x MDW

SJU: I think SJU will be announced before Nov19. They are just waiting on technology issues.
 
sdoyon
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:20 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
MEM: I strongly doubt ATL-MEM will remain, so I think this will be a high priority for cutover. The only question is whether there will be HOU or DAL.

I don't think TN is within the Wright Amendment zone, so no MEM-DAL until at least 10/2014.
 
spiritair97
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:51 pm

Quoting iowaman (Thread starter):
RSW-ISP

This route has been seasonal for about two-three years, so no surprise.

Quoting iowaman (Thread starter):
PBI-PVD

This route was originally announced as a seasonal flight, so again, no surprise here.

My predictions:

ISP-EYW (I've been told by somebody to look for it soon. I don't know what soon is, but still, I predict a seasonal flight)
SJU-BWI/HOU/PVD/MCO/FLL/MSY
CLT-DEN/BWI/HOU/MCO/ATL
 
sdoyon
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:54 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):
ISP-EYW (I've been told by somebody to look for it soon. I don't know what soon is, but still, I predict a seasonal flight)
SJU-BWI/HOU/PVD/MCO/FLL/MSY
CLT-DEN/BWI/HOU/MCO/ATL

I know Delta just introduced Holiday LGA-EYW, but I have a hard time believing WN could physically make ISP-EYW work. Never say never though.

As for CLT, 3 of the 5 destinations you listed have already been added as of 4-14-13. I definitely think we'll see a CLT-DEN, but CLT-ATL would shock me.
 
southwest737500
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:55 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):

I think they could make

1X DEN
1X STL

what are your thoughts
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
airliner371
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:01 pm

Talk about being early on posting this thread....

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):
(I've been told by somebody to look for it soon. I don't know what soon is, but still, I predict a seasonal flight)

The user actually said direct flight, not non-stop.

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
SJU: I think SJU will be announced before Nov19. They are just waiting on technology issues.

Does an airline need flag carrier status to fly to SJU? WN did not have flag carrier status when the extension came out and just yesterday got it. I agree it could come out before the extension.
 
ouboy79
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:16 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 8):
Does an airline need flag carrier status to fly to SJU? WN did not have flag carrier status when the extension came out and just yesterday got it. I agree it could come out before the extension.

Hmm.  

SJU is obviously the easiest to switch over since it is still a domestic city. I personally don't think it will be very long at all before we hear about the plans for SJU.

[Edited 2012-10-24 14:18:52]
 
SANFan
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:44 pm

Anybody else notice a trend (all right, ANOTHER trend) happening at WN these days? I think in this entire thread so far, one route involving a city west of DEN is mentioned -- SNA-HOU (new route starting 11/4.)

(There are a couple of "returning seasonal" routes mentioned in the great list compiled by iowaman in the OP that include w/c cities but that's pretty much it.)

I'm not (really) saying that this is good or bad but it is a trend that seems to a big part of WN's current strategy. This is a strategy that is also being seen with B6... Interesting

(And don't worry, airliner371, I'm not even going to wish for SAN-ATL any more. I give up on seeing that route flown by Canyon Blue in my lifetime!)

My predictions for the November 19 schedule extention: lots of things east of the Rockies!

bb
 
AWACSooner
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:54 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
ICT: 2x DEN, 2x MDW

You can probably tack on a few DAL flights, and maybe a STL flight or two.
 
spiritair97
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:55 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 8):

Good point, I didn't notice that. I mix them up a lot.
 
sdoyon
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:09 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
Anybody else notice a trend (all right, ANOTHER trend) happening at WN these days? I think in this entire thread so far, one route involving a city west of DEN is mentioned -- SNA-HOU (new route starting 11/4.)

I think part of the reason for this is that FL was much larger and stronger (read: had an actual presence in) the east coast and because of this, we're seeing much of the "growth" take place in the northeast, southeast, and midwest.

Somewhat related: I've been wondering how long MHT-BNA lasted. I was looking through some old route maps and it occurred to me that this particular route was flown for a while; definitely one of the first few routes out of MHT. Anyone have an info on this? I'd love to see a MHT-BNA return or a MHT-STL, even if they were only seasonal routes to offer more SE and SW US connections in the winter (although I won't hold my breath!)
 
airliner371
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:28 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
And don't worry, airliner371, I'm not even going to wish for SAN-ATL any more. I give up on seeing that route flown by Canyon Blue in my lifetime!

You've really turned negative towards WN but I don't know why. All I'm gonna say to this is look at the entire SWA network and count the destinations that are served from ATL. There are 12 routes from ATL on WN. SAN is not the only city missing. I bet when all is said and done SAN along with west coast cities like SLC, OAK, PDX or SNA will be added to ATL. I can say a lot more but you've heard it all from me before.
 
wnflyguy
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:02 pm

Today WN officially received international ops specifications from the FAA.
This gives the green light for WN to start SJU service very soon.
Service should be announced next week.
Finally awesome!!!!!
Wnfg 
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
drerx7
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:20 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 15):

Today WN officially received international ops specifications from the FAA.
This gives the green light for WN to start SJU service very soon.
Service should be announced next week.
Finally awesome!!!!!
Wnfg 

Great news...c'moooooon HOU-SJU
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
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mke717spotter
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:17 am

Well there sure was a lot of hype about the most recent schedule extension and then nothing seemed to come out of it.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
ouboy79
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Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 17):
Well there sure was a lot of hype about the most recent schedule extension and then nothing seemed to come out of it.

?!?!?

Four cities getting full WN conversions is nothing? Geesh. What are people expecting?
 
airliner371
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:50 am

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 17):
Well there sure was a lot of hype about the most recent schedule extension and then nothing seemed to come out of it.

Just 4 cities... nbd.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 18):
Four cities getting full WN conversions is nothing? Geesh. What are people expecting?

I completely agree.
 
southwest737500
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:52 am

4 cities is a huge deal guys
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
airliner371
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:12 am

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 20):
4 cities is a huge deal guys

It is! I don't know what people were expecting but thats pretty amazing.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:37 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 18):


What are people expecting?

I think people were expecting full codeshare and further intergration by this point. 1st quarter 2013 is the game changer for WN/FL. This is by far the most protracted integration I've ever witnessed in this industry. For an airline as highly regarded as WN, this whole exercise has been one embarrassing snafu after another, IMHO. Personally I've experienced two major glitches with the transistion:

1) After I had already used TurboTax for my returns in January, WN comes along in Febraury and says "get RR points for using TurboTax. I sent a letter to WN stating that I had already filed my taxes and could I get a waiver for the points, no response. FAIL.

2) I had FL points due to expire so I donated them to charity (glad to do that as I didn't have enough to redeen for anything) but two weeks later WN says I can transfer my FL credits to RRs. FAIL.

At the very least the FF programs should have switched to a single program ASAP.

WN still has my business when possible, but their sluggishness with this integration is taxing.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
airliner371
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:47 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 22):
but two weeks later WN says I can transfer my FL credits to RRs. FAIL.

This part is not their fault. Just luck of the draw.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:55 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 23):


This part is not their fault. Just luck of the draw.

Yes, it is their fault for not combining the FF programs earlier. I mean airline A and airline B sign a codeshare agreement and they have reciprocal FF miles virtually overnight. This is an ACQUISTION and they farted around for months and months.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
airliner371
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:09 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 24):
Yes, it is their fault for not combining the FF programs earlier.

No, its not because...

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 24):
This is an ACQUISTION and they farted around for months and months.

No, the entire time they have been working tirelessly. Their IT system is a failure and we all know it. But they have been able to get around it. Thats no easy job. They had to do a lot before they could making converting FF points available and they have to do a lot before the codeshare is available. They are working even more tirelessly to get the new RES system in place in 2014/15. Nothing in this acquisition is easy. They cannot just flip a switch to turn a codeshare on or to make FF point converting available.

So again, you missing the FF conversions by two weeks is not their fault.
 
kkephart13
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:09 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 19):
Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 17):
Well there sure was a lot of hype about the most recent schedule extension and then nothing seemed to come out of it.

Just 4 cities... nbd.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 18):
Four cities getting full WN conversions is nothing? Geesh. What are people expecting?



I agree as well to this, that this is no big deal. These arent new cities. They will just convert the metal and the staff over from FL to WN. This is gonna happen pretty much with the small/medium FL Stations over the next year. Look at DSM, SEA, and PHX to name a few.



[quote=southwest737500,reply=20]4 cities is a huge deal guys

Your right, Especially since WN now has permission for international, IF they announce (Converting) SJU or CUN, (and opening) HNL or ANC or anything of that nature. My opinion is (With all due respect, and im not trying to cause stuff) This is a big deal to you because they finally announced CLT.

[Edited 2012-10-24 20:12:44]

[Edited 2012-10-24 20:13:42]


[Edited 2012-10-24 20:15:03]
EVERYTHING i type on here, is the opinion of ME and not of any airline/company.
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:29 am

With these most recent station transitions from WN to FL and maybe some more in the next release, I think more international destinations will be announced for the FL planes that are freed up by these transitions...

ACA, BOG, CCS, SJO, LIR, PTY... In addition to additional MEX, PVR, CUN, MBJ, etc.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
ouboy79
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:31 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 22):
1) After I had already used TurboTax for my returns in January, WN comes along in Febraury and says "get RR points for using TurboTax. I sent a letter to WN stating that I had already filed my taxes and could I get a waiver for the points, no response. FAIL.

2) I had FL points due to expire so I donated them to charity (glad to do that as I didn't have enough to redeen for anything) but two weeks later WN says I can transfer my FL credits to RRs. FAIL.

Those aren't glitches in the WN system, that is just bad timing. Why should WN compensate you points for the TurboTax thing when you did it on your own? Not everyone files their taxes right away in January. Also, like any promotion they are typically driven by the end vendor to create business. I'm sure Intuit had a predetermined timeline setup in their agreement with WN to offer partner points to Rapid Rewards. If you were wanting to get credit for that promotion, you spoke to the wrong company. If it is like SkyMiles and other programs, Intuit purchased a block of points or had an agreement for an amount, and was responsible for awarding those to specific RR accounts by sending it through the Partner system. You should have contacted Intuit. If people who have the Chase card don't get their points, they are always going to be referred to Chase to ensure everything is proper on that end so they can transfer the correct amount of points over to WN and the RR account.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 22):
At the very least the FF programs should have switched to a single program ASAP.

Sure things could have progressed faster, I'm not going to dispute that. I think all of us would have loved to see things move a bit faster. We are finally starting to see a lot of good movement. The new AirTran credit card is over with Chase now, which will make it an easy transition to the WN card. The FL A+ program is very similar to RR1.0 so that created some issue on how to combine it with the new RR2.0. Essentially you can transfer points out of RR2.0 into FL A+, however anything coming back from FL goes into the old RR1.0 style of rewards. Is it ideal? Not really. Most of us would love to see RR1.0 go away completely to get things simplified. However, there also needs to a system in place that is fair to pax who were loyal to FL.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 26):
I agree as well to this, that this is no big deal. These arent new cities. They will just convert the metal and the staff over from FL to WN. This is gonna happen pretty much with the small/medium FL Stations over the next year. Look at DSM, SEA, and PHX to name a few.

I look at it being a big deal because this is probably the biggest chunk of the FL network converted to date so far. There are only a few more domestic cities that don't have any WN presence and I doubt that will last much longer. That includes SJU which could be resolved sooner rather than later.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 26):
Your right, Especially since WN now has permission for international, IF they announce (Converting) SJU or CUN, (and opening) HNL or ANC or anything of that nature. My opinion is (With all due respect, and im not trying to cause stuff) This is a big deal to you because they finally announced CLT.

He's obviously been very anxious for his hometown airport getting converted and its finally happened. I'm sure it is a big deal to those in FNT, ROC, and PWM as well. Much like it will be the same for those in ICT, GRR, and the other remaining cities. The proving flights are definitely extremely important to get Hawaii going, but also to get SJU moved over to WN metal quickly. We'll see how fast Hawaii is announced, but I think the main target right now the obvious choice - when it comes to ease of conversion.
 
airliner371
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:39 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 19):
Just 4 cities... nbd.

I want to clarify because a user thought I was serious. I am being 100% sarcastic when I say, "nbd". Its a huge deal, no question about it.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:05 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 28):

But the entire transaction is being handled amaturishly, that is my point. There really is no exuse for this piece-meal approach.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
southwest737500
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:02 am

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 26):

Of corse it'd a big deal to me I've waited 10 years for WN to finally come to CLT
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:52 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 30):
But the entire transaction is being handled amaturishly, that is my point.

But I think your point is invalid. While the transition might be slower than desired, it's actually being done in a way that doesn't produce the chaos that we've seen with other mergers. The UA/CO merger progressed faster, but the end result has not been pretty....UA today is a mish-mash of products, angry employees and dismal service. And instead of producing revenue synergies like a merger is supposed to do, UA's revenue numbers have actually turned negative. UA has little benefit to show from this merger.
 
airliner371
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:58 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 30):
But the entire transaction is being handled amaturishly, that is my point. There really is no exuse for this piece-meal approach.

Just because its going slow does not mean they work amateurishly. It is helping prevent huge problems like UA/CO had. I guess because its not going as fast as you would like they are working terribly, your absolutely incorrect.

[Edited 2012-10-25 03:58:41]
 
JONC777
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:03 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 18):

for once i agree with ya lol . .but until the IT issues are officialy resolved. . .I dont expect any major changes. . .but supposedly the IT issues will be fixed with the 1Q. Given high costs off fuel and payroll and the obvious desire to cut overhead, I really doubt there will be the major expansion that folks would like. I do however think SJU will get some decent levels of service but as far as the domestic service goes. . .just staying flat on ASMs would be more than I would expect.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:43 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
ICT: 2x DEN, 2x MDW

I think they will have to do a ICT-DAL 2-3x with thru to HOU or ICT-DAL 2x with 1x to HOU

I dont see WN in ATL being bigger then 100 daily flights.
 
sdoyon
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RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:03 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 35):
I think they will have to do a ICT-DAL 2-3x with thru to HOU or ICT-DAL 2x with 1x to HOU

I could see ICT start with about 7 flights:

2x - DAL [333mi]
2x - DEN [420mi]
1x - MDW [589mi]
1x - HOU [565mi]
1x - LAS or PHX [986/870mi]

Most of these are short- to mid-haul routes that fit well into WNs new (no ultra short-haul) flights.
 
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OzarkD9S
Posts: 4717
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:03 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 33):


I guess because its not going as fast as you would like they are working terribly, your absolutely incorrect.

I'm far from alone with my opinion. WN could have kept FL as an independent International subsidiary forever but taking as long as they did before linking FF programs WAS amateurish, again my opinion. WN's IT platform was not ready for the acquisition, plain and simple. I have no issue with the gradual transition program they've chosen but so many other issues are indicitive that WN wasn't ready for the deal.

Avoiding the UA/CO mess is smart, don't get me wrong.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
iowaman
Topic Author
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:11 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):

(And don't worry, airliner371, I'm not even going to wish for SAN-ATL any more. I give up on seeing that route flown by Canyon Blue in my lifetime!)

Give it time. I think SAN may have a shot, unlike a lot of the smaller stations.

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 13):
Somewhat related: I've been wondering how long MHT-BNA lasted. I was looking through some old route maps and it occurred to me that this particular route was flown for a while; definitely one of the first few routes out of MHT. Anyone have an info on this? I'd love to see a MHT-BNA return or a MHT-STL, even if they were only seasonal routes to offer more SE and SW US connections in the winter (although I won't hold my breath!)

MHT-BNA was around from at least 2000-2005, after doing some research in my old WN flight schedule guides. Interesting to note MCI was served for a while as well. Keep in mind these are weekday frequencies:

June 2000:
8x BWI
2x MDW
1x MCI
1x BNA
1x MCO (2x daily on Saturdays)

October 2002:
9x BWI
2x MDW
1x MCI
2x BNA
3x MCO
2x TPA

June 2003:
10x BWI
2x MDW
1x MCI
2x BNA
3x MCO
2x TPA

Sometime in 2005:
11x BWI
4x MDW
1x LAS
2x BNA
4x MCO
5x PHL
3x TPA

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 35):
I think they will have to do a ICT-DAL 2-3x with thru to HOU or ICT-DAL 2x with 1x to HOU
Quoting sdoyon (Reply 36):
could see ICT start with about 7 flights:

2x - DAL [333mi]
2x - DEN [420mi]
1x - MDW [589mi]
1x - HOU [565mi]
1x - LAS or PHX [986/870mi]

I'd be mildly surprised if it's that aggressive in the beginning. It takes a several million dollar subsidy just to maintain the 3x daily ICT-ATL flights. A MDW-ICT-DAL-HOU routing would be nice as you stated though.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 1643
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 38):

At a curiosity, what was the purpose of these MCI flights? I recall they flew PVD-MCI and maybe BDL-MCI. I always thought they were a little weird. Everything from MCI is basically served from MDW.
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343
 
sdoyon
Posts: 275
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:25 pm

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:26 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 38):
MHT-BNA was around from at least 2000-2005, after doing some research in my old WN flight schedule guides. Interesting to note MCI was served for a while as well. Keep in mind these are weekday frequencies:

Thanks for the info; very interesting! It's hard to believe that MHT had 30+ daily flights on WN--sign of the times I suppose.
 
iowaman
Topic Author
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:43 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 39):
At a curiosity, what was the purpose of these MCI flights? I recall they flew PVD-MCI and maybe BDL-MCI

None of my timetables from 2000-2005 show BDL-MCI as ever being non-stop, however they all show 1x daily PVD-MCI. Maybe someone else can highlight more into why they flew PVD-MCI. There were quite a few published connections and one-stop flights available in my summer of 2000 timetable to the west coast through MCI from PVD including ABQ, LAS, OKC, PHX, SLC, SAN, SEA, and TUL. I suspect stuff like east coast-MCI-xxx was more common back then as the fleet consisted of a lot more -200's and -300's then (unable to do cross country flights).
 
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enilria
Posts: 6152
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 4):
I don't think TN is within the Wright Amendment zone, so no MEM-DAL until at least 10/2014.

You are right, I'm thinking of Mississippi which is inside the perimeter.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 8):
Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
SJU: I think SJU will be announced before Nov19. They are just waiting on technology issues.

Does an airline need flag carrier status to fly to SJU? WN did not have flag carrier status when the extension came out and just yesterday got it. I agree it could come out before the extension.

Yes, but that's not so hard to get. The technology issue surrounds a unique tax for P.R.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 11):
You can probably tack on a few DAL flights, and maybe a STL flight or two.
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 35):
Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
ICT: 2x DEN, 2x MDW

I think they will have to do a ICT-DAL 2-3x with thru to HOU or ICT-DAL 2x with 1x to HOU
Quoting sdoyon (Reply 36):
I could see ICT start with about 7 flights:

2x - DAL [333mi]
2x - DEN [420mi]
1x - MDW [589mi]
1x - HOU [565mi]
1x - LAS or PHX [986/870mi]

I have three reasons why they will not go in there with so many flights:
1) ICT is paying a subsidy to FL/WN and they do not have the money to underwrite so many flights.
2) WN is fleet neutral and it would take way more planes to provide more than 4 RTs per day. Where are they coming from?
3) If the market is so great to justify all these flights, why is there a subsidy to FL and previously to F9? See #1.

I say 4rts. DEN is definite because we know F9 left under a subsidy deal, so they must have known WN would add DEN. The only question is whether it is 2rts to MDW or 2 rts to DAL. I think given the perimeter rule at DAL, it should be MDW.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11368
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:32 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 42):
3) If the market is so great to justify all these flights, why is there a subsidy to FL and previously to F9? See #1.

ATL is farther away and likely a smaller local market than either Chicago or Dallas. Putting DEN aside for a moment, a schedule of 2x MDW 1x DAL (or 2x DAL 1x MDW) would require much less subsidy than 3x ATL.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 41):
Maybe someone else can highlight more into why they flew PVD-MCI.

Historically, MCI was much more plugged in to the west coast stations than was STL or really any city east of the Mississippi. Think of it as similar to HOU in terms of the connecting possibilities but 500 miles closer to MHT/PVD. As MDW grew, MCI's utility shrank, especially with MDW being both a stronger local market and closer to New England (and thus less out of the way for the majority of westbound connections).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
iowaman
Topic Author
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:35 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 43):
Historically, MCI was much more plugged in to the west coast stations than was STL or really any city east of the Mississippi. Think of it as similar to HOU in terms of the connecting possibilities but 500 miles closer to MHT/PVD. As MDW grew, MCI's utility shrank, especially with MDW being both a stronger local market and closer to New England (and thus less out of the way for the majority of westbound connections

That's what I figured - MCI had a lot of connectivity to the west before MDW was the size it is now. IIRC weren't their some issues (maybe there still is) with connections and having to change terminals and reclear security? IIRC the terminal(s) were set up poorly for connections.
 
airliner371
Posts: 2058
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:40 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 42):
Yes, but that's not so hard to get. The technology issue surrounds a unique tax for P.R.

I know its not hard to get, I was saying they didn't have it earlier this week now they do.
 
sdoyon
Posts: 275
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:25 pm

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:51 pm

What are the chances of a BWI-MSP flight?

Currently DL flies 4x daily--3x mainline and 1x RJ--for $546 (price is pretty consistent from now until January).
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11368
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:55 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 44):
weren't their some issues (maybe there still is) with connections and having to change terminals and reclear security?

You are barking up the correct tree: the issue is that MCI's security checkpoints serve just a handful of gates, and the gates are not all connected beyond security. Thus, many connecting passengers have to reclear security. My recollection - though it's been a while - is that WN has 7 gates and 2 checkpoints.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Flytravel
Posts: 663
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:37 pm

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:12 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
RIC: Should have ATL 3x, but I bet it loses it. Prediction: MDW 3x, MCO 1x, TPA or FLL 1x, BNA 1x
ATL is closer than BNA or MDW, plus ATL would provide additional Florida and Texas service, and SFO service. Of the cities in the NE or northeast of ATL: I think BOS, LGA, BWI, DCA, PIT, RIC, ORF, RDU will have or keep ATL. PHL maybe.

[Edited 2012-10-25 13:15:09]
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4110
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions

Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:27 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 42):
Yes, but that's not so hard to get. The technology issue surrounds a unique tax for P.R.

We'll have the answer very soon.  

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