Jackbr
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Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:16 am

What sort of routes did PA operate their A300s on?

For those who flew on them, what were they like? I understand that towards the end of Pan Am's days the 747s were very, very tired in the cabin - were the A300s the same?
 
hugo
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:09 am

The only Pan am flight I was ever on was with Clipper Detroit, an A300, LAX-SFO in the mid-80s.
 
fraapproach
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:33 am

The A 300s and A 310s flew plenty of routes out of FRA; don´t know the exact ones but I would assume

FRA-TXL
FRA-JFK / IAD
FRA-LHR
FRA-DEL/BOM
 
jfk777
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:42 am

PA A300 operations were centered in Miami since the planes were not used for Atlantic flights, they were used in the Caribean and north Latin America. JFK and Miami Barbados were A300 routes. Miami to LGA and JFK. Miami to caracas was A300. MIA to MEX & LAX.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:09 pm

I am not so sue on FRA/JFK and IAD, but, besides the IGS (FRA was a centre besides MIA, jfk777) they used the A310/300 on other European flights as well.

Quoting jackbr (Thread starter):
understand that towards the end of Pan Am's days the 747s were very, very tired in the cabin - were the A300s the same?

yes, anmd the Terminals, the jetways in the US could use some paint as well. Same with TWA in the final years BTW.
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Aeri28
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:25 pm

Quoting hugo (Reply 1):
The only Pan am flight I was ever on was with Clipper Detroit, an A300, LAX-SFO in the mid-80s.


I flew this flight, not sure which year, but I believe it originated or came in from Guatemala City to LAX then SFO. Odd trivia, is that I remember which song was playing on the p.a. as we deplaned. That song by Julio Iglesias and Diana Ross, which could clue as to which year it was... Nice interior I remember, not sure of the colors, as the last 747 (non sp) flight I took with PA the seats were the blue and red ones.
 
n729pa
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:42 pm

Quoting fraapproach (Reply 2):
The A 300s and A 310s flew plenty of routes out of FRA; don´t know the exact ones but I would assume

FRA-TXL
FRA-JFK / IAD
FRA-LHR
FRA-DEL/BOM

I remember about 1987/88 there was a daily A310 from LHR-DTW, PA55 I think it was (that just popped out of my memory), but I don't remember if it originated in Germany or not. We used to get loads of 727s from FRA/TXL to connect through on. I think even for a brief period the Detroit flight was operated with the Tristar, courtesy of the equipment swap with United.

Anyway back to the A300s....I think they mainly flew from MIA/NYC down to San Juan/Mexico City(?)/Venezuela and basically on the Caribbean routes. I don't recall ever seeing a Pan Am A300 at LHR, A310s yes but not the A300s.
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:54 pm

I flew MCO-MIA on one in 1988, a regular run at the time. The aircraft Clipper Guatemala was in excellent shape, and although not used for anything else on that short flight the safety video was played on the bulkhead projection screens.

With one exception, all Pan Am's A300s were delivered direct from Airbus in 1984/85, so even at the close of operations they were still very young aircraft. In stark contrast to some of the 747 fleet.

On the same trip I flew 2 747-100s and a 737-200. The 737 still had full Air Florida interior, right down to the pastel coloured seats and side linings and logo on the wall coverings in the toilet. One of the 747s had it's original interior and was literally falling apart, lockers held together with speed-tape and the movie broke in the first 5 minutes of the film... the other newly refurbished with big-bin overhead lockers and actually quite nice.

If only they'd been more consistent as an airline.

From the 1987 timetable, A300 routes were as follows;

BOS-JFK-BGI-JFK-BOS
LAX-MIA-LAX
LAX-SFO-LAX
MIA-JFK-JFK
MIA-LAX-MIA
MIA-MEX-MIA
MIA-SFO-MIA
MIA-STX-STT-STX-MIA
JFK-CCS-POS-CCS-JFK
JFK-MEX-JFK
JFK-STT-STX-JFK
JFK-SXM-JFK
JFK-MIA-JFK
SFO-LAX-GUA-SAL-GUA-LAX-SFO

I don't have it with me at the moment, but I'm sure by the following year as well as MIA-MCO-MIA they were also doing MIA-TPA-MIA, both as tags to onward Caribbean service from Miami. No Germany based A300s in 1987, but there had been previously and looking at later photos there were later as well... In 1987 only A310s shown. They obviously swapped round as needed.

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Photo © Ted Quackenbush


Regards
CROSSWIND
 
DesertAir
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:17 pm

In December 1990 I flew on PanAm from SFO to GUA. The SFO-LAX leg was on a 727 that continued onto MIA. The LAX-GUA leg was on an A300 that continued onto SAL and then onto MIA.
 
columba
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:57 pm

Quoting fraapproach (Reply 2):

The A 300s and A 310s flew plenty of routes out of FRA; don´t know the exact ones but I would assume

If I remember correctly in the end the flights within Germany and Europe were flown only by ATR 42, A310s and 727. Don´t remember seeing any A300s in TXL in 1988-89.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:46 pm

Found the safety video


On here you can see the very different cabin interiors compared to the rest of the fleet. Particularly different is the galaxy theme divider on the aft of the cabin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3zj-oUm7vc
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
brilondon
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:06 pm

Wow, I forgot about the smoking on airplanes. What ever possessed people to be allowed to smoke in a tiny little environment as an airplane? How times have changed.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
PanHAM
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:33 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 11):
How times have changed.

Thankfully yes, although I belonged to those who waited for the "no smoking" light to switch off. In these people smoked in elevators and thought nothing about it.
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longhauler
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
Thankfully yes, although I belonged to those who waited for the "no smoking" light to switch off. In these people smoked in elevators and thought nothing about it.

I remember when no-smoking cabins first appeared in aircraft, and a lot of people thought it was only a fad, and smokers will demand that they smoke everywhere in an airplane!

Did you also notice the pneumatic headset jacks in the armrest?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Clydenairways
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:04 pm

I remember PA A300's in SNN during the 80's. This was before the A310 operation.

Quoting columba (Reply 9):
If I remember correctly in the end the flights within Germany and Europe were flown only by ATR 42, A310s and 727. Don´t remember seeing any A300s in TXL in 1988-89.

What about this then:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pan-A...d=764ecf78846435bdc64e37511ba54a8f
 
columba
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 14):

I remember PA A300's in SNN during the 80's. This was before the A310 operation.

Quoting columba (Reply 9):
If I remember correctly in the end the flights within Germany and Europe were flown only by ATR 42, A310s and 727. Don´t remember seeing any A300s in TXL in 1988-89.

What about this then:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pan-A...d=764ecf78846435bdc64e37511ba54a8f

I stand corrected....thought the A300s already had been gone by then. Thanks for finding the picture.


On a side note I read once that the 737-200s were operated from Berlin and also had Berlin inspired names like "Clipper Schoeneberg" etc.....don´t remember seeing any 737s in TXL
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
fraapproach
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:39 pm

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 10):

Wow, thanks for posting the safety video. I think its great. Very focused on the essential message. Though its almost 25 years old it could still be shown today. Some of todays safety videos are more of an informercial and could be a lot shorter...
 
VC10DC10
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:50 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 13):

I remember when no-smoking cabins first appeared in aircraft, and a lot of people thought it was only a fad, and smokers will demand that they smoke everywhere in an airplane!

Wow, the good old days, LOL.
 
skycub
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:05 pm

My opinions are my own. They are not representative of my employer, my union or my co-workers. They are all mine.
 
n729pa
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:09 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 11):
Wow, I forgot about the smoking on airplanes. What ever possessed people to be allowed to smoke in a tiny little environment as an airplane? How times have changed.

..and you could booking "smoking or non-smoking" ......as if it mattered, it was like the cinemas that made smokers sit on the left and non smokers on the right. When I first started work, the smoke in the office was like a smog at times. I must have smoked 60 a day and never paid for any of them!
 
Aviaco
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:15 pm

I just remember the A310 from FRA to JFK. But we ran out of fuel and had to refuel at Bangor. Lots of missed connections then.
 
flflyer
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:24 pm

Flew on a 310 from TXL to FRA in 1990 right after Iraq invaded Kuwait.
 
PanAm1971
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:44 pm

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 10):
On here you can see the very different cabin interiors compared to the rest of the fleet. Particularly different is the galaxy theme divider on the aft of the cabin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3zj-...Um7vc

I swear I can hear the engines starting as I watch the safety video.  
 
tonystan
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:17 am

I could have sworn I just watched an episode of Dallas!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
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turk223
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:33 am

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 10):
Found the safety video


On here you can see the very different cabin interiors compared to the rest of the fleet. Particularly different is the galaxy theme divider on the aft of the cabin.

What a memory-provoker! I worked witrh a handling agency in BGI in 1986 that served PA and I remember those A300s well with the blue and pink interiors... We had the daily BOS-FK-BGI-JFK-BOS PA219/220 with the Airbus and sometimes an A300 substituted the 727 on the daily MIA flight, but I don not think the A300 was ever scheduled for MIA.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:38 am

Quoting columba (Reply 15):
On a side note I read once that the 737-200s were operated from Berlin and also had Berlin inspired names like "Clipper Schoeneberg" etc....

Yes, when based in Europe they all had German names, like the 727s and propeller types that operated the routes to/from Berlin earlier. Names were changed when the aircraft were reassigned to U.S. routes. I believe all 16 Pan Am 737-200s were leased from a variety of other carriers. They were obtained in 1982/83 and disposed of between 1985 and 1989. Their Clipper names were as follows:

Berlin
Charlottenburg
Frankfurt
Kreuzberg
Luftikus
Neukölln
Reinickendorf
Schöneberg
Spandau
Spreeathen
Steglitz
Tempelhof
Tiergarten
Wedding
Wilmersdorf
Zehlendorf

Four Pan Am A310-200s also had German Clipper names (Berlin, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Munich).
 
PanHAM
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:24 am

]

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
Yes, when based in Europe they all had German names, like the 72

The IGS was an airline in itself. The clipper names you list is just a short list. I remember one - believe it was a 727-200 named "Clipper Langer Lulatsch" which was a nickname for the TV tower, the one in West Berlin of course.

PA, together with BE, operated the life line for Berlin. few people know and even less appreciate that today.

.
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columba
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:25 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 26):
few people know and even less appreciate that today.

So true, would love to see a Pan Am aircraft on static display at a museum
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
AFCDGPTP
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:22 am

PA used its A300 on most Caribbean routes including JFK-PTP

I do remember my mother flew this bird PTP-JFK-PTP.

As a matter of fact, PA was flying JFK PTP once of twice a week with of mix of aircraft : lL1011, A300, A310, B747, (even seen a SP and a DC10 !)

Then they put a B727 MIA PTP with a night stop in PTP
 
milesrich
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:36 am

It appears that in the 1985 timetable, the A310's were used on domestic US services and European services, primarily the intra German fights. In the 1987 schedule the same appears to be true except for a JFK to SNN flight in the A310. Was the A300 other than the -600 ever certified for ETOPS operations? Did it have the range to fly the north Atlantic nonstop? The first ETOPS certified aircraft was the Boeing 767. Based on what I have been able to find, other aircraft were not certified for 120 minute ETOPS operations until 1988, and I don't think Pan Am ever operated the A-300-600.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:02 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 26):
PA, together with BE, operated the life line for Berlin. few people know and even less appreciate that today.

Wasn't AF in there as well?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
PanHAM
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:41 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 30):
Wasn't AF in there as well?

2 daily flights PAR-DUS-TXL, not really anything to mention.l Dan Air, Laker and other UK charter operators had more flights.
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ABQopsHP
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting skycub (Reply 18):

This may help:

From 1985:

http://www.departedflights.com/PA102785p96.html

From 1987:

http://www.departedflights.com/PA020....html

I have an April 1990 PA schedule, which shows LAX-MIA
PA42 A300 LV0815-AR1627
PA441 B747 LV1410-AR2157

When I was living in ELP from '89-'95, prior to the PA shut down, I would see those flight pass over in both directions. If I was out walking in the desert, because it was so quiet you could hear the distinctive buzzsaw sound of the engines as it went over. On some occasions, flt 441 would be either an A300 or A310. My guess is, there towards the end. the loads did not justify a 747 on the domestic leg. The MIA-MCO leg of 42 was a 72S as was the SFO-LAX leg of flt 442.

JD CRP
ABQ ops, Cactus 202 requesting you order 5 Green Chile Chicken stew for us to p/u on arrival. ;)
 
Viscount724
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:44 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 26):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
Yes, when based in Europe they all had German names

The IGS was an airline in itself. The clipper names you list is just a short list. I remember one - believe it was a 727-200 named "Clipper Langer Lulatsch" which was a nickname for the TV tower, the one in West Berlin of course.

Apart from the 737-200 names already mentioned, following are the German names I could find that were used on Pan Am 727s. The same names were often used on several different aircraft as they were cycled back and forth for service on the Berlin routes. Clipper Langer Lulatsch is shown as a 727-100 (actually used on 3 different 727-100s at various times). Very few 727-200s had German names. The only two I could find are Berlin and Frankfurt. (Haven't shown the umlaut where applicable; too difficult type on an English keyboard.)

727-100
Berlin, Berlin Express, Berliner Baer, Berliner Luft, Berliner Weisse, Beroline, Dufte Biene, Dusendroschke, Dusseldorf, Flotte Motte, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Hannover, Knorke, Koln-Bonn, Langer Lulatsch, Luftikus, Munchen, Nuremberg, Sausewind, Schrager Otto, Spreeathen, Stuttgart, Wuchtbrumme,

727-200
Berlin, Frankfurt
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:26 pm

Quoting jackbr (Thread starter):
I understand that towards the end of Pan Am's days the 747s were very, very tired in the cabin

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dave Mills - Visual Approach
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dave Mills - Visual Approach



Well, not according to the two pictures above. As far as I am aware, the whole Pan Am 747 fleet had a major cabin refresh in the late 1980s.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
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turk223
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:36 pm

Wel, I feel the 727s looked more abused towards the end,,, The orange red and blue seat covers in the late 80s were prett dated and the machines from PE, LH, and EA seemed to mostly keep the previous owners' interiors.

The pink and blue on the A300s was changed to a more standard dark blue pattern later. I flew only once on a PA A300 in 1991 and it was in fine shape... Teh 747s looked fine as well.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:46 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 34):
Well, not according to the two pictures above. As far as I am aware, the whole Pan Am 747 fleet had a major cabin refresh in the late 1980s.

Not sure the job was ever completed. I was on several Pan Am 747s in their last few years of service and many were quite shabby. And the "refresh" you refer to didn't change the seats. Just new seat covers on the old seats. Also larger overhead bins.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:35 am

From looking at those departed flights from skycub, Pan Am flew to just about every where, how did they manage with so many different types of aircraft in their fleet ?
 
klwright69
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting fraapproach (Reply 2):
The A 300s and A 310s flew plenty of routes out of FRA; don´t know the exact ones but I would assume


FRA-TXL
FRA-JFK / IAD
FRA-LHR
FRA-DEL/BOM


FRA-DEL/BOM was always a 747. They also used the 747 to Karachi.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Pan Am A300 Routes?

Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 34):
As far as I am aware, the whole Pan Am 747 fleet had a major cabin refresh in the late 1980s.

  
At the time it was actually the most expensive cabin refit in the industry. It was stated it cost $1mil per aircraft for the refreshed cabins.
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