tioloko100
Topic Author
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:31 am

Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:30 am

WE'VE all faced the dilemma when preparing for a flight. How much hand luggage can we get away with taking on board.
If your airline is Ryanair, it seems, you’d better be extra careful.
A Spanish lady got the shock of her life when she got booted off a flight because she was carrying books and scrolls.

http://flyingactive.com/content/49-w...g-book-scroll-off-their-plane.html
 
PHX787
Posts: 7881
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:14 am

Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):
A Spanish lady got the shock of her life when she got booted off a flight because she was carrying books and scrolls.

If this was all she was holding, she does need to remember that most airlines allow one carry on and one personal item. What those specifics are depends on the airline,

but if this was part of her baggage herself, shame on RyanAir but I'm the least bit surprised.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
Mir
Posts: 19107
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:29 am

Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):
If your airline is Ryanair, it seems, you’d better be extra careful.

This applies to pretty much everything related to flying Ryanair, not just carry-on luggage.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18253
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:48 am

Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):
If your airline is Ryanair, it seems, you’d better be extra careful

There seems ot be a bit more to it than just books and a scroll. If she behaved as Ryanair says she behaved, then I have some sympathy with the airline. Form the article:

"The airline defended its actions, claiming the woman had become disruptive and "pushed past its gate agents without showing any ID or her boarding card".

A spokesman said: "This passenger was in breach of airport security regulations, and having become disruptive was properly removed from the aircraft at the request of Ryanair agents."


I'd be fairly sure Ryanair wanted to get the plane off the ground, not waste time in a fight.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9919
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:59 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 3):

I had a look at the video on Youtube, she had very little with her, I have seen people carry more than that from duty free before. I also saw her boarding pass in her left hand.

Personally this smells like the ground staff get a cut of the fees they raise, and appear to interpolate the rules to maximize their cut. They probably get paid next to nothing, and rely on the cut of the extra fees to make a living.

I remember seeing a comparisons a few years back between a full service airline I think it was BA ,and LCCs like Ryanair, by the time you add all of the fees etc up, there is actually very little between them. What appears cheap upfront actually costs a lot more with additional fees and charges.

Edit : I should add, I think using Police like this is an abuse of power and process. I have not seen anything to suggest that the airline did not provoke or escalate this. If other passengers were equally upset by the events like the person who posted this on facebook said she was crying for the passenger, I think this shows the passenger was only reacting to the way she was being treated.

[Edited 2012-11-03 22:05:54]
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18253
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:32 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 4):
I had a look at the video on Youtube, she had very little with her, I have seen people carry more than that from duty free before. I also saw her boarding pass in her left hand.

I've seen passengers with a boarding pass in their hand create a considerable fuss, especially about security.

if there had been a drama abut her credit card - she said "it wasn't working" - then I can imagine a situation developing. I'd get a bit agitated if my credit card didn't work in similar circumstances.

Quoting zeke (Reply 4):
Personally this smells like the ground staff get a cut of the fees they raise, and appear to interpolate the rules to maximize their cut.

The delay to the flight may have had the potential to cost the airline more than the fee associated with this. Ryananir often has tight turnarounds.

Quoting zeke (Reply 4):
I remember seeing a comparisons a few years back between a full service airline I think it was BA ,and LCCs like Ryanair, by the time you add all of the fees etc up, there is actually very little between them. What appears cheap upfront actually costs a lot more with additional fees and charges.

Ryanair is not, and has never been, a full service airline. It states it 's many fees and charges quite openly and does not make exceptions. The vast majority of people who fly with the airline cope with all this just fine.

The times I've flown with Ryanair, the staff have been efficient and moderately pleasant, while strictly enforcing the airline's policies.

Quoting zeke (Reply 4):
If other passengers were equally upset by the events like the person who posted this on facebook said she was crying for the passenger, I think this shows the passenger was only reacting to the way she was being treated.

I don't know that the other passengers were aware of all the facts that led up to this. I surely don't think that anyone here - including me - knows all the facts.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7049
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:40 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 5):
Ryanair is not, and has never been, a full service airline.

Ryanair had a business class cabin at one stage, alongside free drinks and snacks in economy.

www.ryanair.com/en/about
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18253
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:54 am

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 6):
Ryanair had a business class cabin at one stage, alongside free drinks and snacks in economy.

True. I'd forgotten that disastrous period, pre-Michael O'Leary and the restructure as LCC.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9919
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:04 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 5):
I've seen passengers with a boarding pass in their hand create a considerable fuss, especially about security.

Ryanairs statement why the passenger was booted off was because they did not show their boarding pass or ID when they went through the gate. I can see the boarding pass in their hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fFgSPBTHOg

I do not buy the official line, they state she was booted off for breech of security regulations, the trumped up reason I think how they got the police involved. If that was the case, the whole aircraft should have been offloaded, the aircraft checked, and then boarded again.

Quoting mariner (Reply 5):

The delay to the flight may have had the potential to cost the airline more than the fee associated with this. Ryananir often has tight turnarounds.

I would wager if they left the passenger alone, let them get to their seat, the aircraft would have departed on time. They were using the time before departure to generate more revenue, not with a concern of departure time or security regulations.

Quoting mariner (Reply 5):

I don't know that the other passengers were aware of all the facts that led up to this. I surely don't think that anyone here - including me - knows all the facts.

I do not claim to know all the facts either, considering Ryanair has chosen to not mention the hand carry item issue is in my view trying to deprive the public of the facts to make the passenger look like a villain.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:22 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 4):
I had a look at the video on Youtube, she had very little with her, I have seen people carry more than that from duty free before. I also saw her boarding pass in her left hand.

Passengers should start reading the conditions of their ticket. This makes me sooo tired.... Yesterday I had a Ryanair flight from Treviso to Budapest and an American couple was making a huge fuss about the carry on luggage.

It is simple, so simple... you can bring ONE item onboard, not more, even taxfree has to fit in there...

Ryanair explains this in large bold letters on the boardingpass, and Ryanair sends everybody a special email about this before departure, explaining the hand luggage rules.

How can people still complain when an airline does so much to explain it before the flight??
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7049
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:45 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 9):
This makes me sooo tired.... Yesterday I had a Ryanair flight from Treviso to Budapest and an American couple was making a huge fuss about the carry on luggage.

I agree - the rules are the rules, if you don't like them, fly someone else.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10010
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:45 pm

She was prevented from accessing the aircraft by gate staff, but she turns up on board with prohibited items. If she's willing to break one set of rules, what else might she disobey. Rules are rules, she needs to learn to live with those or quit complaining when she's ejected.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9919
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:00 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 9):

Ryanair have said nothing about her carry on in their remarks, if it was indeed the real issue.

Police would not get involved if that was the case.

I have no issue with rules, I do have an issue with the lack of common sense being applied in this case, they were victimising the passenger. It could have been suggested she don the jack, put the book in the pocket, and then she would tick all the boxes. She could then take the jacket off when she got onboard. What has been gained out of all this ?

The American passengers you talk about, how many roll aboards did they have ? Often I see US passengers taking way in excess of even our business class hand carry allowance, some with two roll aboards and a laptop in economy. Often I have seen passengers unable to lift their hand carry overhead, way in excess of the limit. I can understand airlines cracking down on this.

Passengers get enough aggravation as it is with the security checks, the last thing we need is ground staff making it even worse when there is no safety benefit.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
rwy04lga
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:21 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:08 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 10):
I agree - the rules are the rules, if you don't like them, fly someone else.

Wouldn't matter, the rules apply to all airlines. Ryanair is enforcing rules, not company policy.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9919
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:11 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 11):

That is not what Ryanair claim, they claim she did not show her ID and boarding pass, we can see her boarding pass in the video. What prohibited items did she have on her ?

I agree rules are rules, they should however not be abused to fit someone up.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:25 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 13):
Wouldn't matter, the rules apply to all airlines. Ryanair is enforcing rules, not company policy.

a) The rules in Europe differ from those in the US. 1+1 may be a TSA rule, but thankfully, there is no TSA in Europe.
b) "ONE item only, you stupid idiot!" is the Ryanair way of treating paying customers. I've routinely boarded flights on e.g. Germanwings with two pieces of hand luggage, one of which contained nothing but my laptop and liquids - separated from everything else to speed up screening.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
bueb0g
Posts: 656
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:57 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 13):
Wouldn't matter, the rules apply to all airlines. Ryanair is enforcing rules, not company policy.

No, this carry on policy is a Ryanair only affair (although many LCC's and even some "full service" have similar policies). Trying to gain entry to an aircraft that you've been barred from by gate staff is a different matter, of course.
Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
 
european742
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:39 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:46 pm

From what I can see in that video is only her on the plane, therefore we have no evidence of what happened at the gate. Yes you can see she has a boarding pass but how do you know she showed that at the gate or not? She may have pulled it from her pocket as she walked to the aircraft. She has very little on her there but maybe the gate agents took a pull along bag off her and its at the gate. If that is the case then yes I am fully with the airline. It could be she was one of the last passengers, the gate agents saw her coming with a pull along bag AND those pieces you see there to which the airline very clearly states you cannot do and she agreed to that. Then the agents tried to charge her for this extra piece and before she showed a boarding pass and ID, pushed past the gate agents and made a run for it, therefore if she deliberately avoided security checks and becomes disruptive then Ryanair have every right to remove her. Just because she may have broken the rules, why should Ryanair break theirs? This seems yet another case of a passenger its kicked off a Ryanair flight so lets attack the airline without the evidence. Of course it could be thats all she had with her in which case I am on her side but I simply don't know. I heard passengers shouting "Verguenza, adios" which is disgusting, goodbye which sounds to me these passengers witnessed the woman in question being disruptive but of course it could well have been aimed at the guards.
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Posts: 1412
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:55 pm

Quoting european742 (Reply 17):
Yes you can see she has a boarding pass but how do you know she showed that at the gate or not?

Do we even know it's a boarding pass and not some other folded-up piece of paper? The video isn't that high-def.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word, and doesn't even make sense.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12423
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:13 pm

She should have put the book under her blouse or in her jacket.
Ryanair seems to have the most confusing and money grabbing rules of any airline but for maybe Spirit here in the USA, it in part causes confrontations like this.
 
Dogbreath
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:49 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 8):
Ryanairs statement why the passenger was booted off was because they did not show their boarding pass or ID when they went through the gate. I can see the boarding pass in their hand.

Are you sure that it's a boarding pass? Besides the video is taken inside the aircraft and not at the gate check-in area, where the alleged problem occurred. Do you have 'facts' as to what occurred at the gate? Please enlighten us, if you do!!

Quoting zeke (Reply 8):
I do not buy the official line, they state she was booted off for breech of security regulations,

Again please give us the facts. An assumption doesn't make point of view correct.


Quoting zeke (Reply 8):
If that was the case, the whole aircraft should have been offloaded, the aircraft checked, and then boarded again.

Why?? I'm sorry I don't follow your logic.

Quoting zeke (Reply 8):
They were using the time before departure to generate more revenue, not with a concern of departure time or security regulations.

You know this for a fact. do you? Don't know an airline that is more concerned with on-time departures than Ryanair.

Quoting zeke (Reply 8):
I do not claim to know all the facts

Bingo!!
Truth, Honour, Loyalty
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9919
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting european742 (Reply 17):

This is what Ryanair is saying officially .....

"Ryanair strongly deny the ruckus had anything to do with luggage restrictions, and claim police were called to deal with disruptive behaviour."

They made an earlier statement to other papers, they have dropped this ID and boarding pass line now as well.

"The airline defended its actions, claiming the woman had become disruptive and "pushed past its gate agents without showing any ID or her boarding card."

A spokesman said: “This passenger was in breach of airport security regulations, and having become disruptive was properly removed from the aircraft at the request of Ryanair agents.”

They have to say this, as you cannot call police for the reason the other passengers say she was harassed.

Neither gels with the passengers that have witnessed the event and posted online. Also if security regulations were breached, everyone is supposed to get off the aircraft, they aircraft gets another check, and then get the passengers back on.

The logic being applied by some posters above, if she had a jacket in one hand, and a cell phone in either hand that is two pieces, and therefore should pay excess baggage. She could put the jacket on, and cell in her pocket and have empty hands. Some common sense needs to prevail.

Quoting HOMsAR (Reply 18):

The version of the video on faceliners is better quality, one can make out the 2D barcode of the boarding pass.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9919
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:54 pm

Quoting Dogbreath (Reply 20):
Are you sure that it's a boarding pass? Besides the video is taken inside the aircraft and not at the gate check-in area, where the alleged problem occurred. Do you have 'facts' as to what occurred at the gate? Please enlighten us, if you do!!

Why has Ryanair changed their story to the press ?

Quoting Dogbreath (Reply 20):
Again please give us the facts. An assumption doesn't make point of view correct.

That was in the Ryanair original statement, I quoted it above.

Quoting Dogbreath (Reply 20):
Why?? I'm sorry I don't follow your logic.

Standard procedure, is someone breaches the secure area, the area has to be rechecked. Otherwise terrorists would know if they make a fuss when they get on an aircraft knowing they would get kicked off, and could leave a package behind. Same if someone breaches the terminal security area, the whole terminal gets emptied and everyone re-screened.

As an additional measure airports also hold passengers kicked off flights in the terminal until it reaches the destination, just in case.

Quoting Dogbreath (Reply 20):

You know this for a fact. do you? Don't know an airline that is more concerned with on-time departures than Ryanair.

All airlines are concerned over on-time departures, I do not know of an airline more concerned about generating additional fees than Ryanair.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:12 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 12):
The American passengers you talk about, how many roll aboards did they have ? Often I see US passengers taking way in excess of even our business class hand carry allowance, some with two roll aboards and a laptop in economy. Often I have seen passengers unable to lift their hand carry overhead, way in excess of the limit. I can understand airlines cracking down on this.

Dont get me started on this couple... with 2 kids. On the outbound flight they were in the aisle across from us, with the kids playing very loud on an Ipad or something like that. Both times they tried to sneak in priority que, both times they were send back. But since they now boarded last they shouted and ranted about not being together on the plane..duh..

Anyway, they had normal carry on, but with lots of tax free stuff. And that didnt fit in the bags..  

Oh, and I forgot about the part where they brought a bag full of KFC stuff onboard... cant believe Ryanair staff allowed that..
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18253
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 21):
A spokesman said: “This passenger was in breach of airport security regulations, and having become disruptive was properly removed from the aircraft at the request of Ryanair agents.”

I'd guess something happened between check-in and the aircraft because, from the article:

"...said the woman shouted out as she entered the cabin that she had tried to pay an oversized luggage fee with her credit card, but it had not been working."

If she owed the airline the fee, if her credit card wasn't working, and if she was in a mood to shout out that fact as she got on the plane, I'd suggest there is more to the story than we know.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3646
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:08 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 4):
I think using Police like this is an abuse of power and process.

If an airline doesn't want you on their plane and you get on anyway, or refuse to get off when told to, what do you think is going to happen?
She may or may not be a victim, I have no idea, but there's no circumstance where a passenger refuses to leave an aircraft when told to and the airline just gives up and goes on with the flight, not on Ryanair, not on any other civilized carrier.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9919
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:41 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 23):
Anyway, they had normal carry on, but with lots of tax free stuff. And that didnt fit in the bags..

Oh, and I forgot about the part where they brought a bag full of KFC stuff onboard... cant believe Ryanair staff allowed that.

Stark Inconsistency, I can see how that would be beyond what is acceptable.

Quoting mariner (Reply 24):

If she owed the airline the fee, if her credit card wasn't working, and if she was in a mood to shout out that fact as she got on the plane, I'd suggest there is more to the story than we know.

I find it interesting that Ryanair have tried to distance themselves from that, if Ryanair feels the passenger owes them a fee, there are normal legal avenues available for any business to recover them. Ryanair has not stated she did not have a valid ticket, so she should have still traveled.

As I have also pointed out above there would have been options for her to put the items on her person, and therefore not hand carry, so not fee would have been payable. Also reports in the media from other passengers indicate they offered to place the items in their luggage, again within the rules, Ryanair would not allow this.

Seems there were a number of ways to defuse the situation without having to pay the fee, and I would question if a fee would actually need to be paid if she had the item on her person or let someone else put in their bag.

Using the police to remove the passenger is an abuse of power, it is not what they are there for. Yes she was disruptive, however from what other other passengers have said that were there, only after being provoked.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 25):
If an airline doesn't want you on their plane and you get on anyway, or refuse to get off when told to, what do you think is going to happen?

In the EU, they have passengers rights. Passengers are entitled to compensation if an airline denies boarding. The passenger then has a choice between a full refund and re-routing, they may also be entitled to compensation of between €125 and €600. Passengers are also have to have clear price transparency given to them at the time of purchase, no hidden fees.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 26):
I find it interesting that Ryanair have tried to distance themselves from that, if Ryanair feels the passenger owes them a fee, there are normal legal avenues available for any business to recover them. Ryanair has not stated she did not have a valid ticket, so she should have still traveled.

Ofcourse she could travel with a valid ticket, but WITHOUT the oversized bag. I am sure she didnt want that. So it's the pax's decision...
 
something
Posts: 1239
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 5:29 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:57 pm

I don't quite understand why everybody here is jumping at Ryanair's defense and why zeke is catching so much flak. Ryanair is in the business to offer a service. What keeps them alive are their customers, not vice versa. The customers shouldn't have to thank Ryanair for transporting them, it should be the other way around. Personally, I would never fly Ryanair because of their business practices. Well, and the kind of people I would have to be on the flight with.

It is nothing short of astonishing to me how subordinate most people seem to be. You as the customer pay those clowns at Ryanair and they have a job because of you. Why would you take anything from them? They chose their career path.. if customer service is too much for them, then they're in the wrong profession. Completely regardless of what this woman's conduct was, or may have been. This is their job.

Lastly, all of what zeke said are valid points. I am not even suggesting the woman couldn't have conducted herself differently and thereby influenced the outcome of this situation, but this is beside the point: Ryanair live off of their customers. If they bite the hand that feeds them, and people are still willing to do business with them, then I think that speaks volumes about what characters you seat-neighbor with on your next Ryanair flight.

Hence why you won't ever find me on one of 'em.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9919
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 27):

Ofcourse she could travel with a valid ticket, but WITHOUT the oversized bag.

Only if that is in the conditions of contract, which it is not. Also good luck convincing an EU court that a roll of paper or a book is a bag, they do understand English. The only clear plastic bag she had in the video was not oversize.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18253
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 26):
I find it interesting that Ryanair have tried to distance themselves from that, if Ryanair feels the passenger owes them a fee, there are normal legal avenues available for any business to recover them. Ryanair has not stated she did not have a valid ticket, so she should have still traveled.

I have to guess that the fee issue as somehow resolved, or how did she get the boarding card you say you can see?

The issue then becomes - how was it resolved and how much of a ruckus happened because of it before she got on the on the plane?

And why did she feel the need to shout that her credit card wasn't working when she got on the plane? If the situation was resolved, why say anything?

Quoting zeke (Reply 26):
As I have also pointed out above there would have been options for her to put the items on her person, and therefore not hand carry, so not fee would have been payable. Also reports in the media from other passengers indicate they offered to place the items in their luggage, again within the rules, Ryanair would not allow this.

I'm not surprised Ryanair didn't allow it, it's a way to evade or avoid Ryanair's standard charges. I believe there have been several instances of passengers swapping stuff to try and avoid fees - trying to diddle the airline.

Quoting zeke (Reply 26):
Seems there were a number of ways to defuse the situation without having to pay the fee, and I would question if a fee would actually need to be paid if she had the item on her person or let someone else put in their bag.

There may have been, I wasn't there, I don't know. I do know that Ryanair doesn't go looking for drama. It has clearly identifiable rules, and if you follow those rules, then usually all is well.

Quoting zeke (Reply 26):
Using the police to remove the passenger is an abuse of power, it is not what they are there for. Yes she was disruptive, however from what other other passengers have said that were there, only after being provoked.

Once again, I don't know what happened at check-in - only that something did - or what happened outside the aircraft. I don't what was said, what was done or why the initial issue of the boarding pass - which you say you can see - came about.

But - again - it seems fairly clearly to me that the woman was agitated when she got on the aircraft else why she did shout out about the credit card as she got onboard? If all was well, why say anything?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:11 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 29):
Only if that is in the conditions of contract, which it is not. Also good luck convincing an EU court that a roll of paper or a book is a bag, they do understand English. The only clear plastic bag she had in the video was not oversize.

Two books in your hand, ore one book and one roll of paper are TWO items. Condition of travel, and pointed out at least 200x during checkin online and at the airport, is ONE item allowed onboard. They even explain that a laptop or book etc is counted as one item.

So pax is clearly wrong here. Just follow the rules or dont fly with them, is that so hard?
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9919
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 30):

I have to guess that the fee issue as somehow resolved, or how did she get the boarding card you say you can see?

Looked like a self check-in boarding pass to me, done on a printer.

Quoting mariner (Reply 30):
I'm not surprised Ryanair didn't allow it, it's a way to evade or avoid Ryanair's standard charges.

It is not written in their rules that you cannot have anything in your pockets or wear/carry a jacket, book, ipad, cell phone. The carry on rules refer only to baggage.

Quoting mariner (Reply 30):
I believe there have been several instances of passengers swapping stuff to try and avoid fees - trying to diddle the airline.

They say one cannot pool check-in allowances or swap, they do not say anything about carry on.

Quoting mariner (Reply 30):
But - again - it seems fairly clearly to me that the woman was agitated when she got on the aircraft else why she did shout out about the credit card as she got onboard?

I would be surprised if the police were so close by, my guess that is only a snippet of what happen on the aircraft, just the last little bit.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18253
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:24 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 32):
Looked like a self check-in boarding pass to me, done on a printer.

Then how did the issue of the malfunctioning credit card come about?

As I said from the git-go, there appears to be more to this than any of us know, and I won't rush to judgement - of the passenger or the airline - without knowing all the facts.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
SCQ83
Posts: 2762
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:27 pm

I have read about this in a few local websites and, according to some supposedly passengers, the woman entered the aircraft without showing the proper identification after an argument with the gate agents.

That makes a lot of sense anyway. Why otherwise the woman would have been denied flying AFTER being allowed to board the plane (when in Ryanair you are checked your luggage before boarding)? Ryanair is not afraid to deny boarding to anyone at the gate, that would have been much easier and quicker for them... you leave the "issue" at the airport.

Pure speculation, but more than probably... typical Ryanair boarding... the woman is told that she cannot board two pieces of hand luggage, so is a) she pays, b) she puts everything in one that fits in their basket or c) she leaves the books behind. There is an argument (seen this a few times flying with FR) with no positive outcome (a) b) or c), that's all, she is not going to change Ryanair's regulations in Valencia at 6.00 AM) and she decides to do it her way and enter the aircraft. Even after the Guardia Civil is asking her to leave the aircraft, she argues with them... umm??? I think there is not much to argue when a policeman asks you to leave a plane. Luckily she was in Spain, in the US she would probably had been teased after a few words.

If she entered the aircraft without authorization... what did she expect? On the other hand, I can't see all this fuss with Ryanair's luggage policies. They are quite extreme and annoying, but there are dozens of companies in Europe that would welcome those passengers not satisfied with Ryanair.
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10010
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:36 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 14):
That is not what Ryanair claim, they claim she did not show her ID and boarding pass, we can see her boarding pass in the video. What prohibited items did she have on her ?

The luggage. It is stated that she tried to pay an 'oversize baggage fee', therefore it can be gathered that her carry on did not comply with the regulations and was therefore prohibited in the cabin. Furthermore it is stated that she could not get her card to work, yet she appears on the plane with what appears to be her luggage. So the gate agents have prohibited her from boarding with said luggage, but she does it anyway - in the process she's hardly likely to have shown them her boarding pass and ID is she, because they would have stopped her.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
musapapaya
Posts: 990
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:02 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:50 pm

To sum up, the policy of Ryanair, or the way some peopletry to implement it, possibly to maximise revenue, or the share of pay for particular agents, stinks!

I can confirm all these 'one baggage only' policy, not even a coat in your arm, a bottle of water in a plastic bag, all needs to go into that one baggage. Last time in Stansted and Venice, I got told by the agent about this, but once I got passed, I took everything back out then slowly walked on the plane.

I also very dislike the way they try to push people to hurry up for a on time departure. Sorry to say this but when I am pushed, I act even slower, call me naive but I just hated this.

Hence, I am not flying with them anymore. So it doesnt bother me whether they still grow like 'gangbusters': http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20150776, or they go bust tomorrow.

I do feel sorry for their crew though, especially cockpit crew for the pressure from above which may be putting safety in danger, issues including their fuel policy, and also the lack of requirement to perform a walkround after each and every flight, as we see with people like LH or LX.

[Edited 2012-11-04 11:52:35]
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9919
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:56 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 33):

Then how did the issue of the malfunctioning credit card come about?

My guess she was directed to another desk at the time the boarding pass was scanned. It is often the first time an agent for the airline meets a passenger with web check-in. The Ryanair rules say a person must carry ID, and the types of acceptable ID, it does not say one has to produce it at the boarding gate.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 34):
Pure speculation, but more than probably... typical Ryanair boarding... the woman is told that she cannot board two pieces of hand luggage

I would not be surprised, however their rules refer to baggage, not the number items of hand carriage. Hand carried items would include a cell phone, jackets, wallet, purse, passport, boarding card etc. I would expect EVERY passenger to have more than one.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 35):

What luggage ? All I could see was a single clear plastic bag on one hand and a jacket in the other. The roll of paper was longer than 55 cm, but that is not a bag, or baggage. As I said before, good luck convincing any court in the EU that a roll of paper is a bag. The bag she has was not oversize.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9919
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting musapapaya (Reply 36):
I can confirm all these 'one baggage only' policy, not even a coat in your arm, a bottle of water in a plastic bag, all needs to go into that one baggage. Last time in Stansted and Venice, I got told by the agent about this, but once I got passed, I took everything back out then slowly walked on the plane.

Pitty their "policy" is not the same as what they list on their website.

Quoting musapapaya (Reply 36):
Last time in Stansted and Venice, I got told by the agent about this, but once I got passed, I took everything back out then slowly walked on the plane.

Exactly as I suggest above, put the jacket on on, roll of paper/book in the pocket, tick the box, pass the agent and take it off again. A silly childish game that two can play.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18253
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:08 pm

Quoting musapapaya (Reply 36):
To sum up, the policy of Ryanair, or the way some peopletry to implement it, possibly to maximise revenue, or the share of pay for particular agents, stinks!

Every airline tries to maximise revenue, especially in this day and age, although other airlines just do it differently.

Then again, there have been instances in the US when passengers have been kicked off planes just because they "look foreign."

A friend of mine, Australian to the core but swarthy, passed all the rigorous El Al security checks, but then the other passengers on the aircraft refused to fly because he looked "Arab." So he was booted off that flight - but it didn't get a thread on a.net.

Airlines have rules. If the rules are offensive to you, then it is entirely your right to make the decision not to fly with them.

Quoting zeke (Reply 37):
My guess she was directed to another desk at the time the boarding pass was scanned. It is often the first time an agent for the airline meets a passenger with web check-in. The Ryanair rules say a person must carry ID, and the types of acceptable ID, it does not say one has to produce it at the boarding gate.

It is just hypothesis piling on hypothesis, but on many occasions I have been demanded to present ID at the gate, and with airlines other than Ryanair.

Try having Palestine as your birthplace in your British passport and enjoy the fun that gets you into.

mariner

[Edited 2012-11-04 12:11:59]
aeternum nauta
 
SCQ83
Posts: 2762
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:12 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 37):

Ryanair's website is very clear on that:

http://www.ryanair.com/en/terms-and-conditions

Quote:
CABIN BAGGAGE

Strictly one item of cabin baggage per passenger (excluding infants) weighing up to 10kg with maximum dimensions of 55cm x 40cm x 20cm is permitted. (handbag, briefcase, laptop, shop purchases, camera etc.) must be carried in your 1 permitted piece of cabin baggage.

Extra/oversized cabin baggage will be refused at the boarding gate, or where available, placed in the hold of the aircraft for a fee of £50/€50. If you are unsure, check at the Bag Drop desk before going through security. (...)

Those terms and conditions are available as well in Spanish and Catalan (which are the two official languages in the airport where that woman was boarding) in their website.
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10010
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:13 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 37):
What luggage ? All I could see was a single clear plastic bag on one hand and a jacket in the other.

The case reported in the article:

"as she was carrying a scroll, which would not fit in her case, and a book."

Quoting zeke (Reply 37):
The roll of paper was longer than 55 cm, but that is not a bag, or baggage. As I said before, good luck convincing any court in the EU that a roll of paper is a bag. The bag she has was not oversize.

Errr, you might want to read their regulations then, because you are wrong:

"CABIN BAGGAGE

Strictly one item of cabin baggage per passenger (excluding infants) weighing up to 10kg with maximum dimensions of 55cm x 40cm x 20cm is permitted. (handbag, briefcase, laptop, shop purchases, camera etc.) must be carried in your 1 permitted piece of cabin baggage."

The scroll she was carrying is an item. It doesn't matter that it isn't a bag, it is still her one item of carry on luggage and as you identify, it appears to be oversize. She agreed to these terms when booking, after all...


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2315
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:15 pm

The rules of carriage are shown to you on booking, on completion of booking and on your boarding pass.

It is quite clear you are only allowed 1 piece of hand luggage.

The instructions on the booking site and your printed boarding pass clearly state that anything you want to carry on board must fit into the 1 piece of hand luggage and that the luggage must not exceed X amount of KG and be within certain dimensions.

This woman ignored these notices. Ignorance is not a defence. Perhaps the incident could have been dealt with more tactfully. But, if you pay peanuts, don't expect a red carpet!
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10010
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:16 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 38):
Pitty their "policy" is not the same as what they list on their website.

  

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 40):
Ryanair's website is very clear on that:

Exactly - they always have been too.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting musapapaya (Reply 36):
I also very dislike the way they try to push people to hurry up for a on time departure. Sorry to say this but when I am pushed, I act even slower, call me naive but I just hated this.Hence, I am not flying with them anymore.

I am happy you dont fly them anymore. Me and most other pax want to hurry up and get on the plane. I prefer therefore the Ryanair way over that from KLM for example. If everybody would just prepare and follow the rules boarding can be soo efficient. At Budapest airport mosr pax are very disciplined and prepared for the trip with FR.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 40):
Ryanair's website is very clear on that:http://www.ryanair.com/en/terms-and-conditionsQuote:CABIN BAGGAGEStrictly one item of cabin baggage per passenger (excluding infants) weighing up to 10kg with maximum dimensions of 55cm x 40cm x 20cm is permitted. (handbag, briefcase, laptop, shop purchases, camera etc.) must be carried in your 1 permitted piece of cabin baggage.Extra/oversized cabin baggage will be refused at the boarding gate, or where available, placed in the hold of the aircraft for a fee of £50/€50. If you are unsure, check at the Bag Drop desk before going through security. (...)Those terms and conditions are available as well in Spanish and Catalan (which are the two official languages in the airport where that woman was boarding) in their website.

And thats so easy to read. And dont forget Ryanair send everybody an email a few days before departure, with all luggage and checkin instructions.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 41):
"CABIN BAGGAGEStrictly one item of cabin baggage per passenger (excluding infants) weighing up to 10kg with maximum dimensions of 55cm x 40cm x 20cm is permitted. (handbag, briefcase, laptop, shop purchases, camera etc.) must be carried in your 1 permitted piece of cabin baggage."The scroll she was carrying is an item. It doesn't matter that it isn't a bag, it is still her one item of carry on luggage and as you identify, it appears to be oversize. She agreed to these terms when booking, after all...

Exactly. So to speak in MOL terms, she is really a 'stupid' woman.
 
european742
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:39 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:26 pm

As quoted from my Ryanair boarding pass I have in front of me..

WARNING - 1 cabin bag only - 55x40x20cm (Max 10kg)
Handbag, Briefcase, Laptop, Shope purchases, cameras etc must be carried within your 1 cabin bag.

Extra/Oversized cabin baggage will be REFUSED at the boarding gate, or where available, placed in the hold of the aircraft for a fee of £/€50. If you are unsure, check at the bag drop desk before going through security. N.B. There is no baggage allowance (cabin or checked) associated with the purchase of an extra seat.

IMPORTANT REMINDERS - please read
- Each passenger must present their valid photo ID (as specified and accepted in our general conditions). Driving licences are not accepted
- Passengers with pre booked special assistance must produce this boarding pass at the airport special assistance desk and again to assistance staff at the arrival airport
- Bag drop desks close strictly 40 minutes before the scheduled flight departure time
- EU Reg 261-Article 14.1 - If you are denied boarding or if your flight is cancelled for at least 2 hours, ask at the Ryanair desk or view online the text stating your rights, particularly with regard to compensation and assistance.

I am sorry if people find this confusing but to me I dont think you can get any clearer than that. If you choose to break any of these, why should Ryanair break them too? The bottom line is YOU agree at the time of booking with this. Ryanair does not have any hidden charges, they have a table of fees which you can quite clearly view before choosing a flight, once you have chosen a flight, you then choose what you want to add on and the relevant charges are added, then you go on to pay, all the extra charges are agreed to by you and once booked you are sent 3 e-mail reminders before you travel about their policies. I have flown with them many times and got from A to B cheap which is what i paid for and have never had a problem. This woman clearly breached one or more of what she agreed to, tried to make a run for it and therefore paid the price.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9919
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:29 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 39):
It is just hypothesis piling on hypothesis, but on many occasions I have been demanded to present ID at the gate, and with airlines other than Ryanair.

Same, however their rules do not say you have to produce it at the boarding gate. I do when asked, even if it is not required. I am just being silly, as they are being silly.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 40):
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 41):

In English, "one item of cabin baggage per passenger" and "one item per passenger" have different meanings. The former refers to the number of baggage, the later the number of items, they may or may not be the same. I would suggest EVERY passenger has more than one item (a boarding card and ID for a start are two).
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
UALWN
Posts: 2176
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:27 pm

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:36 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 41):
Strictly one item of cabin baggage per passenger (excluding infants) weighing up to 10kg with maximum dimensions of 55cm x 40cm x 20cm is permitted. (handbag, briefcase, laptop, shop purchases, camera etc.) must be carried in your 1 permitted piece of cabin baggage."

Sorry but what kind of syntax is that? What is that sentence that starts with "(handbag, briefcase, laptop, shop purchases, camera, etc.) must be carried..."? I guess something is missing before the parenthesis. Something like: "Any other items (handbag, briefcase, laptop, shop purchases, camera, etc.) must be...". It seems like Ryanair cannot be bothered to write their terms and conditions properly...
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/380
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18253
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 46):
Same, however their rules do not say you have to produce it at the boarding gate. I do when asked, even if it is not required. I am just being silly, as they are being silly.

We're just going round in circles.

Again, I've been asked at the gate to show both my boarding pass and my ID for security purposes. I haven't checked to see if it is in the "rules" of the various airlines because I don't think it's silly.

It is a legal requirement - at least down here - that the passenger listed is the passenger flying, and that the pax should have the correct paperwork.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10010
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: Booted Off Ryanair For Carrying Books And Scrolls?

Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:11 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 46):
In English, "one item of cabin baggage per passenger" and "one item per passenger" have different meanings. The former refers to the number of baggage, the later the number of items, they may or may not be the same. I would suggest EVERY passenger has more than one item (a boarding card and ID for a start are two).

Sorry, but that is more than bordering on the pedantic. The regulations are perfectly clear and I cannot see where you are coming from.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 47):
It seems like Ryanair cannot be bothered to write their terms and conditions properly...

I would guess because it's short and to the point.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...