jalapeno
Topic Author
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Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:20 am

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dento...ht-on-Tape-Roanoake-177177461.html



"Home video reveals a serious safety concern on a roadway that lets motorists drive under planes landing and taking off from Northwest Regional Airport. "
via WFAA.com

[Edited 2012-11-04 17:22:40]
 
louA340
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:15 am

Wow, I'm surprised they would have a road cross right next to the runway. Thats a very serious safety issue since it doesn't seem like making cars stop is enforced. Was the aircraft approaching too low? . Glad everyone came out alright.
RyEng
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:16 am

Quoting jalapeno (Thread starter):
Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

You phrased that correctly. The student pilot was way too low on that approach. The aircraft can be seen setting down on the displaced threshold. Sorry, but pilot error.
Slower traffic, keep right
 
Flyer732
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:26 am

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 2):
You phrased that correctly. The student pilot was way too low on that approach. The aircraft can be seen setting down on the displaced threshold. Sorry, but pilot error.

Perhaps setting down on the displaced threshold because its forward momentum was suddenly brought to a halt by impacting a car?
 
MeanGreen
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:32 am

I got my instrument raiting at this airport (52F) and I have flown the plane in question. This is a small uncontrolled strip and the road is the only way to get from the west side of the field to the east side. There are signs that tell drivers to give way to all aircraft. The SUV had no business being there.
 
iFlyLOTs
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:33 am

I know of two airports in similar situations to this, luckily they're both relatively small unused private airports but still, it wouldn't surprise me if something like this happened at one of them.

And regarding this situation, there is a lot of fault, the pilot was low, the car pulled out in front of the plane but the biggest thing of all is that this should have never been allowed to happen because either that road should have been moved or that runway should have. I think that the airport is at the most fault in this situation.
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:08 am

We have an airport like this in Larimore, ND 2L1. There is a road just short of the runway. If you are a little low and there is a truck on the road you're going to have a bit of a problem. Though one has to wonder why the pilot didn't anticipate the car crossing after seeing it. If I felt at any point it was going to be close I would just make a go around.
Blue
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louA340
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:35 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 6):
Though one has to wonder why the pilot didn't anticipate the car crossing after seeing it. If I felt at any point it was going to be close I would just make a go around.

The article said the pilot was on his first solo flight, I would have been fully concentrating on the runway and getting the plane down at that point of flight, and not tracking a vehicle along a road. To have his eyes tracking the car to see if it wasnt going to stop would take away the concentration needed to land the plane, especially on a first solo flight.
RyEng
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:54 am

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 3):
Perhaps setting down on the displaced threshold because its forward momentum was suddenly brought to a halt by impacting a car?

Based on information from airnav.com, the displaced threshold is 400ft. long and the road is 30ft. from the end of the runway. So the pilot would have had to have been approximately 6 feet off the ground at 430ft from the threshold of the runway. Is that a proper approach descent?

Quoting louA340 (Reply 7):
To have his eyes tracking the car to see if it wasnt going to stop would take away the concentration needed to land the plane, especially on a first solo flight.

If I remember correctly, during flight training they tell you, "If you're looking at it (a fixed position), odds are, you will fly to it." If the pilot was watching the car, then the pilot was going to fly into the car.

[Edited 2012-11-04 20:56:23]
Slower traffic, keep right
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:47 am

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 3):
Perhaps setting down on the displaced threshold because its forward momentum was suddenly brought to a halt by impacting a car?

Something deep inside of me tells me you're joking. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt.



I know the SUV didn't stop but what the HECK is the pilot doing 6ft. off the ground 430ft. from the threshold of the runway!? That is beyond unacceptable.

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 2):
The student pilot was way too low on that approach. The aircraft can be seen setting down on the displaced threshold. Sorry, but pilot error.

he was barely going to make the pavement even if he didn't hit a car.
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:31 am

When I was doing my private pilot training at Falcon Field (FFZ) there was a road right across one of the busiest taxiways. There were stop signs, flashing red lights below the stop sign, a warning sign that aircraft do not stop and Bott's dots (raised bumps on the roadway seen in areas that don't need snow plows) warning drivers to stop. I can't tell you how many times I was taxiing in and cars drove right on thru without stopping. Sometimes I'd get honked at and given the finger. If a vehicle did stop a lot of times they treated it like a 4-way stop and took off right in front of crossing airplane traffic. I almost put the prop into more then one cars windshield that did that to me. The road is now closed across the taxiway which makes for a very long drive from one side of the airport to the other but unfortunately it had to happen before someone got killed.
 
ghifty
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:02 am

Looks like an XC90.

I'm proud to drive a Volvo!
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by188b
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:28 am

This topic reminds me of this photo.....


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Photo © Marlo Plate - Iberian Spotters

next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
71Zulu
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:59 am

Here's a video of a landing there at 52F,

http://youtu.be/YYlIdsFU8_U

don't see a problem if you land beyond the displaced threshold, the accident pilot obviously was low and short, so pilot error on this one. Even if you are concentrating on landing, you gotta see that you are low and are on collision course with something. Hope he had good insurance.

Quoting jalapeno (Thread starter):
"Home video reveals a serious safety concern on a roadway that lets motorists drive under planes landing and taking off from Northwest Regional Airport. "
via WFAA.com

Here's a pic from the road, looks like something painted on road, "stop"? Maybe could be a little better signage here (is that car holding on the other side?).

http://i47.tinypic.com/34g0gar.png
Clickable links only please!
 
LH526
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:11 am

The Volvo didn't stop and the plane was too low on approach ... classic case of two mistakes become one mishap!
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
BE77
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:13 am

Quoting louA340 (Reply 7):
To have his eyes tracking the car to see if it wasnt going to stop would take away the concentration needed to land the plane, especially on a first solo flight.

Agree

Quoting MeanGreen (Reply 4):
Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 10):
Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 9):
I know the SUV didn't stop but what the HECK is the pilot doing 6ft. off the ground 430ft

Landing on their first solo.
A lot is happening on a first solo (mine was 30+ years ago, and I still remember how busy it was and I had 5000 feet and was the only plane in the circuit). Even for more experienced pilots a displaced threshold encourages a lower than normal approach (VFR) since the visual picture is that the runway is closer than it is. Landings on displaced threshold runways are much more frequently on the numbers than other runways and it's common to see power added in order to make it to the numbers in the fisrt place. It's not necessarily correct, but the visual is hard to overcome, and it does lessen the chance of overrun if the displacement has significantly reduce the runway length (no idea if that is applicable, but I guess that the displaced threshold was a reaction to the road traffic).

Considering that the driver did not consider the signs that MeanGreen reports plus the experiences of skywaymanaz plus the experiences we all have had with on road drivers not paying attention to rules, warnings, and road conditions, it looks like the driver chose not to consider the surroundings - and would possibly have driven through even if it was a 747 with a wing on fire.

Would suck to get that far through the solo and then having it end that way. I will not second guess his reasoning (didn't happen to me, personal choices, etc., etc.), but it is unfortunate for all of us that he has had to end his training.
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skygirl1990
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:22 am

One thing I would like to potentially add... It looks to me that the windsock is indicating a slight tailwind?

Surely that wouldn't be the case for a first solo?
 
bthebest
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:23 am

My 2 cents:

Pilot was too low, but he was a student - everyone learns at somepoint.

Car shouldn't have been crossing but the STOP signs shown in the video are barely visible - airport needs better safety measures.

As in all these cases it shouldn't get to the point where an accident has to happen for something to be done. Be interesting to see how the insurers wrangle this out. From what I can tell both had right of way due to the privately-owned nature of the road and it might actually come back to inadequate measures by the airport.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:08 pm

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 8):
Based on information from airnav.com, the displaced threshold is 400ft. long and the road is 30ft. from the end of the runway. So the pilot would have had to have been approximately 6 feet off the ground at 430ft from the threshold of the runway. Is that a proper approach descent?

If he wanted to land on the displaced threshold, yes. If the airplane is 6' above the road, that is measured at the static port for the altimeter, the landing gear is much below that level. Cars are 5'-6' tall,so there is a conflict there.

Quoting bthebest (Reply 17):
Car shouldn't have been crossing but the STOP signs shown in the video are barely visible - airport needs better safety measures.

The airport doesn't own the roadway, so they cannot control it.
 
9VSIO
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:10 pm

Wait till you guys read the original reporting...

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dento...ow-hes-a-little-low-177129811.html
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
 
soon7x7
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:11 pm

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 2):
The aircraft can be seen setting down on the displaced threshold. Sorry, but pilot error.

Negative!...Not pilot error!...Even if he was the runway was hot...(aircraft right of way over vehicular airport traffic) if the vehicle driver was aware of what he was doing and where he was doing it he would have "clearly" seen and ainticipated the potential of a landing aircraft. Pilot= Lucky, vehicle driver =blind/stupid.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:17 pm

No one has said anything about the lack of extended flaps. Without them, he's going to be making a shallow approach like that.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
futureatp
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:40 pm

Good catch on the flaps.
 
JHCRJ700
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:49 pm

Quoting louA340 (Reply 7):
The article said the pilot was on his first solo flight

I'm sure he'll never forget this solo! I wonder if he is a member here, it'd be great to hear his side of things.

I wonder if the driver of the car was on the phone at the time and if so if the owner of the plane could pursue legal action against the driver. Either way it's lucky no one got seriously hurt.
RUSH
 
bthebest
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:59 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
The airport doesn't own the roadway, so they cannot control it.

That's probably the biggest problem - that the airport doesn't have control over the road. Maybe they should consider cutting the runway length, 3500ft could easily be cut down and still be available for most aircraft. Barring that, they do control the land right next to the road so could put plenty of signs up!

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 20):
Even if he was, the runway was hot...(aircraft right of way over vehicular airport traffic)

This wasn't airport traffic so no right of way exists.
 
kalvado
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:10 pm

I am not an expert, but looks like 6 feet object 400 feet from displaced threshold is within FAA runway design requirements - http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...Advisory_Circular/150_5300_13a.pdf
Actually if the plane did not clear 6' car by about a foot, 4' fence (which is just a little further) could easily be a show-stopper as well.
 
airtran737
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:35 pm

I am guessing that the GPWS aural alert was ignored, as well as the glideslope waring alert. What? A 172 doesn't have them?? Ok. Let's put this one on coming out of a microburst, and the downdraft pushed him into the car. Sounds like a reasonable explanation.   

Seriously, this is a student on his first solo. How many of you on here are actually pilots? How many of you have multiple pieces of green plastic from the FAA and aren't just armchair pilots who throw out their two cents and expect to be taken as if it were words from the mouth of God? There a multiple factors that contributed to this accident, and I am confident that the NTSB will determine the root cause and steps will be taken to prevent it from happening again. I remember my first solo at KRAC, I was terrified. Not because of a lack of skill, but because it all became very real when my instructor hopped out of the plane on the taxiway. Let's cut the pilot a break until we know what really happened from sources who are paid to determine this sort of thing.

[Edited 2012-11-05 05:48:02]
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
MeanGreen
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:15 pm

The lack of flaps is normal for the flight school in question. When I trained there many years ago they required no flap landings. I can't remember their reason but I thought it was moronic.
 
gulfstream650
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:31 pm

When landing - pilots often get 'tunnel' vision (especially when on solo) as they are solely concentrating on the runway on which they are to land.

I saw the below video at a FAA Wings Runway Safety Seminar a couple of years ago. If you concentrate completely on counting how many balls are tossed you will most likely completely miss the fact that there is a man dressed as a gorilla walking across the screen. I suspect that the pilot did not even notice the car until he hit it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo

Either way, those in that car should have known better.
I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe
 
rfields5421
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:39 pm

Quoting skygirl1990 (Reply 16):
One thing I would like to potentially add... It looks to me that the windsock is indicating a slight tailwind?

Surely that wouldn't be the case for a first solo?

The airport is busy enough that it has a pattern and flying with a slight tailwind is quite common. As an uncontrolled airport, turning the airport with four or five aircraft in the pattern is difficult.

I've landed there with about 7 kts of tailwind. Since it was my third solo flight, it was a 'learning experience'. I've made a lot of flights with light tailwind takeoffs and landings. Those are very common in the DFW area, especially at the controlled airports which take their pattern directions from DFW and DAL.

Quoting bthebest (Reply 17):
Car shouldn't have been crossing but the STOP signs shown in the video are barely visible - airport needs better safety measures.

From the local TV station report

Quote:
The Laudos are aviation enthusiasts, and they visit the airport a lot.

According to the news interviews, this couple has driven across that road, has stopped for incoming aircraft many times. This time they didn't look and didn't stop.
 
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zeke
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:01 pm

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 2):
The aircraft can be seen setting down on the displaced threshold.

A runway is more the just the paved area, it normally includes an unpaved area around the sides.

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 8):
Based on information from airnav.com, the displaced threshold is 400ft. long and the road is 30ft. from the end of the runway. So the pilot would have had to have been approximately 6 feet off the ground at 430ft from the threshold of the runway. Is that a proper approach descent?

They also say there is a 10' hill 200 ft on approach.

Given the terrain slopes towards the runway, the runway is not flat, the runway marking are not standard, I think it is asking a but much to expect a student pilot to make a perfect approach. If an aircraft was taking off in the opposite direction, they could have also hit the car.

The pilot would not be able to see the car as the engine is in the way.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
If the airplane is 6' above the road, that is measured at the static port for the altimeter, the landing gear is much below that level.

The altimeter does not read the height above the ground to the cockpit, or the pilots eye height, in fact it may not read anything at all in relation to the airport elevation depending on the reference where the sub-scale was set.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
rfields5421
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:19 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 30):
If an aircraft was taking off in the opposite direction, they could have also hit the car.

On Oct 11, an aircraft taking off at the airport had issues overran the runway end, crashed through one fence and flipped over after hitting another fence. http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/Acciden...5vc55oe2th2551/D11052012120000.pdf

The road needs to be closed. Yes, that will cut off access to the businesses on the east side of the runway, but a solution can be found.
 
crazyro
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:00 pm

Did you guys watch the news report video? Amazing exchange after the crash...

---
In the aftermath of the crash, airport manager Glen Hyde can be heard on Kandy Davis' recording yelling, "Is anybody hurt?"
Hyde grabbed his first aid kit and ran to the Laudos' vehicle. He immediately asked them whether they saw the stop sign... or the approaching plane.
"Whatever that is, it fell. Whatever that it is it hit our car," they said.
"That is the landing gear," Hyde responded. "You got hit by a plane."
"I know that!" Heather Laudo said in the recording.
"Why did you pull out if front of an airplane, is what I wanna know?" Hyde asked.
"We didn't see it," Frank Laudo said.
"We didn't pull out in front of an airplane," Heather Laudo added.
"Yes, you did!" Kandy Davis said.
---

I love how the SUV occupants have the "It's not our fault! Something just fell on our vehicle." attitude. Maybe paying attention would be good. I wonder if this is an issue of also becoming too familiar, too lax and and letting their guard down.
 
777
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:36 pm

This reminds me another crash occurred in 2010 in UK between a small airplane and a Volvo (again)!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...CAR-near-North-Weald-Airfield.html
 
soon7x7
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting bthebest (Reply 24):

Vehicular route had STOP signs and copy painted on the asphalt. No matter if the pilot was short, flaps , no flaps...no vehicle that in such close proximity to an active runway/aircraft should be operated in such a careless manner that the driver was "unaware" apparently of the incoming aircraft. Most normal individuals I know with two eyes, two ears while driving in a forward direction should always be aware of all around them especially being well aware I would think of their presence at an airport. Driver here just stupid. As for the pilot...his lack of experience put him in a bad position and probably had no visual on the vehicle at some point...he should have gone around but a first solo landing...tunnel vision sometimes happens. Feel sorry for the guy, either way, no one was killed...that's the good news.
 
soon7x7
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:45 pm

Lets hope both never hang around Maho beach!
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 31):
The road needs to be closed. Yes, that will cut off access to the businesses on the east side of the runway, but a solution can be found.

How about a gate, much like a railroad crossing.



I understand this was the pilots first solo landing, but if flying the approach properly was such an intense and overwhelming experience... maybe he wasn't ready?
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
If the airplane is 6' above the road, that is measured at the static port for the altimeter, the landing gear is much below that level. Cars are 5'-6' tall,so there is a conflict there.

I wasn't in the cockpit, so I don't know what the altimeter read. By looking at the vehicle and the impact, the highest the pilot could have been was 6ft. off the ground. Not acceptable.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 20):
Negative!...Not pilot error!...Even if he was the runway was hot...(aircraft right of way over vehicular airport traffic) if the vehicle driver was aware of what he was doing and where he was doing it he would have "clearly" seen and ainticipated the potential of a landing aircraft. Pilot= Lucky, vehicle driver =blind/stupid.

The whole point of a displaced threshold is obstacle avoidance. If the pilot was following proper landing procedure, he would have easily cleared the vehicle, student pilot or not. It's not the fault of the airport or the vehicle driver.

If this had been St. Maarten, the pilot would have set down in the water and taken out a dozen or so beach goers. Would that have been the fault of the people on the beach?

[Edited 2012-11-05 09:11:29]
Slower traffic, keep right
 
as739x
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:12 pm

Quoting JHCRJ700 (Reply 23):
it'd be great to hear his side of things.

If you watch the article it has his view.

Quoting crazyro (Reply 32):

That exchange blows my mind. Agreed, how does the airport manager possibly think this is their fault. I'm very pro-pilot, being one myself, and couldn't possible blame them driving along on the road.

- Displaced threshold
- No flaps as Golden pointed out
- An awful excuse for a warning painted on the ground. (look like some 4 years old wrote it on with the ground with chalk)
- A hill the plane was landing over, making it harder to see

The only knock I have on the drivers is they are regulars to the airport and should be familiar with that excuse of a warning on the road.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 34):
no vehicle that in such close proximity to an active runway/aircraft should be operated in such a careless manner that the driver was "unaware" apparently of the incoming aircraft.

At BNA, we have a runway with a blast fence on each end. The blast fence can't duck, it can't move out of the way, it can't stop at a stop sign and wait for aircraft traffic to pass. Because we have a blast fence on each end of the runway, we have included a displaced threshold on each end so a pilot will not fly into the back of the blast fence trying to make the runway. The principal is the same here. The displaced threshold is there so a pilot will not fly into the 10ft. hill that is 200ft from the end of the runway or side of a vehicle on the road. Student pilots make mistakes, and this is one of them.

I chalk it up to training and the instructors decision to let him fly solo.

[Edited 2012-11-05 09:47:55]
Slower traffic, keep right
 
steex
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:31 pm

In looking at StreetView (which is certainly not guaranteed to match real conditions today), I don't even see a stop sign, just paint on the pavement. If that's the case, they may not be able to hold the driver responsible for much of anything - pavement markings are not a legal alternative to a stop sign. However, the driver seems to indicate that he's familiar with the location and knows he's supposed to stop. In that case, he may still have some liability.

It seems clear, though, that this is indeed a case of it taking some level of mistake by both parties to link the chain together for an accident to occur.
 
777222
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:31 pm

I'm no aerospace engineer, so this is pure speculation on my part, but here's my question. Watching the video, the plane looks relatively stable on approach, right up until about 1 second before impacting the car when it seems to drop considerably. Is there any way that the movement of the car spoiled the airflow or caused some sort of ground effect or vacuum that caused the plane to drop more quickly than normal in that situation?
To fly is to live.
 
JHCRJ700
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RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:48 pm

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 26):
Seriously, this is a student on his first solo. How many of you on here are actually pilots?

I am.  
RUSH
 
tp1040
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:30 pm

RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:05 pm

It was an accident. As stated earlier, the runway was hot and the SUV driver had no business being where he was. There are any number of aviation reasons why he shouldn't be there. Student pilots, plane in distress, pilot in distress.

Being familiar with the airport was probably what caused the driver to not even look. Accidents happen all the time, because people just are not tuned into their surroundings. Running stop lights, hitting objects, just part of the frailty of humans.

If he had been new to the area, he might have responded to the warning signs.

Casual driving, turned lunch into an experience he will not forget.

I bet next time that he stops, looks and listens.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5634
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:10 pm

I want to emphasize AGAIN - this driver and his wife were familiar with the airport and the danger of crossing that road when an aircraft was landing.

Quote:
"We go out there a lot," Frank said. "We're used to the whole protocol of how to wait for the runway and everything like that."

But on Saturday, even following the rules wasn't enough. They were hit.

"I knew it was a plane immediately, because when I looked to the left, I saw him and he couldn't have been more than 10 feet away," Frank said. "I thought, 'Wow, he's a little low.'"

His statements of knowing how to wait and looking left and seeing the plane are contradictory.

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 36):
I understand this was the pilots first solo landing, but if flying the approach properly was such an intense and overwhelming experience... maybe he wasn't ready?

NO - it was NOT the student's first solo.

Quote:
The single-engine Cessna was operated by William Davis, a student pilot returning from a solo cross-country flight to Possum Kingdom Lake.

One previous report I saw said it was his first solo cross country, and that it was his first landing at that airport. Since I can no longer find those statements - they may not be true. Since the aircraft is registered to a flight school at that airport, I'm pretty sure he has landed there before.

Source article - http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dento...ow-hes-a-little-low-177129811.html

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 26):
Seriously, this is a student on his first solo. How many of you on here are actually pilots?

My license is only for Light Sport Aircraft - daytime VFR only.

I have however landed seven times solo at the airport in question. I found that the cars cross that road / runway end without even slowing down for several of my landings. I've done 35 or so other landings/ takeoffs there, not always as PIC. A friend with a C-120 hangers his plane there.

That airport was my first 'cross-country' solo landing though only a distance of 9 nm from KDTO where my flight school was located. The first time my instructor said - "Fly down to Northwest, land full stop and fly back."
 
sprout5199
Posts: 1681
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:26 am

RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:36 pm

Looks to me like the winds were light and variable, and just before he crosses the fence, looks like a gust creating a tailwind. That made him lose lift dropping him low. Who knows if he added power at that moment, and if he hadnt hit the car, he might have climbed or stayed level till the threshold.

All fault to the people driving the car.

Dan in Jupiter
 
T prop
Posts: 912
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:33 pm

RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:56 pm

It's not the pilots fault, yes he's a little low but the driver is supposed to stop for the reason we see in the video. If conflict with approaching aircraft was not a problem, there would be no need for the stop lines.
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5008
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 39):
The principal is the same here. The displaced threshold is there so a pilot will not fly into the 10ft. hill that is 200ft from the end of the runway or side of a vehicle on the road. Student pilots make mistakes, and this is one of them.

When was the last time that you've made a zero-flap landing in a 172/182?
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
kalvado
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:00 pm

There is a 4' fence on the other side of the road, plane probably cleared that by a foot or so. . Should someone hit that fence, would it still be fence's fault?
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2535
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: Small Plane Collides W/ Car On Approach

Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:01 pm

Quoting JHCRJ700 (Reply 42):
Quoting airtran737 (Reply 26):
Seriously, this is a student on his first solo. How many of you on here are actually pilots?

I am.  

Me too.