alitaliadc10
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CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:36 am

Air NZ and Cathay Pacific will form a strategic partnership and code-sharing from March 2013.

Air NZ will drop HKG-LHR services.

More details at:

http://www.airlinehubbuzz.com/air-ne...uspend-hong-kong-heathrow-flights/
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EK413
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:49 am

Another bites the dust!

This just adds more fuel to the fire between QF/CX...

EK413
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leftyboarder
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:53 am

And another kick in the a** of alliances... A Star airline in bed with a Oneworld airline when there are obvious alliance partners to cooperate (namely QF and SQ/TG). The year of treason  
 
SYDSpotter
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:12 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 2):
And another kick in the a** of alliances... A Star airline in bed with a Oneworld airline when there are obvious alliance partners to cooperate (namely QF and SQ/TG). The year of treason

Are there any competition issues with the proposed alliance (the NZ-HKG portion rather than the HKG-LHR bit) given NZ and CX are the two carriers flying direct between NZ-HKG.

I thought one of the reasons why a CX/QF partnership would never get off the ground was because any proposed extensive alliance would cause massive competition issues as they are the only two flying direct b/w OZ and HKG (with the exception of VS to SYD).
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jfk777
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:22 pm

What happens to the LHR slot at 1145 which is the arrival of the ANZ flight via HKG ?
 
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EK413
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 3):
I thought one of the reasons why a CX/QF partnership would never get off the ground was because any proposed extensive alliance would cause massive competition issues as they are the only two flying direct b/w OZ and HKG (with the exception of VS to SYD).

The relationship between the 2 is sour full stop...

EK413
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UAL777UK
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:52 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 2):
A Star airline in bed with a Oneworld airline when there are obvious alliance partners to cooperate (namely QF and SQ/TG). The year of treason

Yes but SQ and TG are no good on the non stop from HKG to LHR. I suspect NZ was bleeding heavily on this route and this exit plan makes so much more commercial sense. I would love to know what NZ average LF was on the london route.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
What happens to the LHR slot at 1145 which is the arrival of the ANZ flight via HKG ?

I would love to know the answer to that as well....SFO - LHR maybe?
 
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zeke
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:24 pm

Quoting alitaliadc10 (Thread starter):

I know for a long time CX has been looking at other ports in the area, maybe there is more to this announcement yet to come ?

This will free up additional equipment for NZ, where will they deploy that capacity ?

Will this means a daily 747 and A340 services to AKL by CX ? Will the freighter tag on from SYD ?

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 2):

QF/AF were code sharing for a long time as well on SIN-CDG.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):

Maybe they sold it ? or using their 777s made available by this on a different route to LHR ?
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anstar
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:27 pm

Wow - interesting... I knew the dropping of the LHR-HKG was on the cards, but thought they would partner with VS on the route as they do with PVG/SFO-LHR
 
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zeke
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:34 pm

A bit more info in this article http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/790987...r-NZ-axes-Hong-Kong-London-flights

NZ government approval for the arrangement have been grated from December 2012, the change will come into effect in March 2013
ANZ capacity to redeployed to North America
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anstar
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:42 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 9):
ANZ capacity to redeployed to North America

I guess this might allow the last 747 to be retired?
 
jfk777
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 7):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
Maybe they sold it ? or using their 777s made available by this on a different route to LHR ?

WHY would ANZ sell it ? They need slots at Heathrow and are not in financial straits. The AKL to LHR via LAX is about 3 hours shorter then via Asia.
 
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zeke
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:06 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 11):

WHY would ANZ sell it ?

It is an asset worth money. They have indicated in the article that they are dismissing 70 LHR based crews, that is a clear indication that they will not be using that slot.

Maybe CX purchased the slot from the as part of the deal so they can accelerate the 744 retirement on the route and have no drop in ASKs. Offer ANZ a guaranteed number of seats as well as access to the network out of HKG ?

Don't know, just guessing.....
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ota1
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:09 pm

There have been rumors popping up more or less frequently that CX is not happy with oneworld anymore.Other rumors were suggesting CX was looking to jump ship to Star Alliance.
Could this alliance be the first step of their withdrawal from oneworld?
 
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zeke
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:17 pm

Quoting ota1 (Reply 13):

Do not know. Given the way QF is courting China Eastern, and Emirates, more likely I would think they leave oneworld, or maybe BA/TK and CX/CA will be part of Star.
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leftyboarder
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:21 pm

Quoting ota1 (Reply 13):
There have been rumors popping up more or less frequently that CX is not happy with oneworld anymore.Other rumors were suggesting CX was looking to jump ship to Star Alliance.

CX in Star? How many SE Asian carriers does *A need anyway? I doubt SQ would like that. Or even CA for that matter.
 
avek00
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:28 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 2):
A Star airline in bed with a Oneworld airline when there are obvious alliance partners to cooperate (namely QF and SQ/TG).

I disagree, none of the three carriers you mentioned offer as much cooperative benefit (and/or likelihood of regulatory approval) as Cathay Pacific.
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zeke
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:34 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 15):
Or even CA for that matter.

CA and CX already own around 20% of each other.
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sunrisevalley
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:50 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 11):
The AKL to LHR via LAX is about 3 hours shorter then via Asia.

Many NZ'ers have are unjustifiably paranoid about transiting via LAX to LHR even though it is seamless. The HKG transit is more pleasant given that the HKG terminal is much more attractive and has designated space for transit. In LAX NZ's transit passengers are confined to a transit lounge.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:56 pm

CX / HKG is unique from the rest of SE Asia is that it's (a) the southern most city that could profitably fly nonstop to North America and (b) closest to the great circle routing between SYD and LHR.

The only major partnerships CX has are JL and AA, which could easily be switched to NH and UA with minimal connectivity loss, if any. CX also code-share with LAN, but the daily hand-off is limited given the distances involved.

If Star manages to win CX over (however remote the possibility), that would be a major coup.
 
delimit
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:19 pm

So one less carrier now circumnavigating the globe I assume?
 
docpepz
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:28 pm

CX is the most natural choice for NZ. NZ fly daily into HKG, NRT and PVG.

PVG would have a problem with transit visas - plus the connections are not great, you require 4-6 hours to connect to BA, VS or MU

NRT's also not great for connections, the Air NZ flights arrive after 4pm, the LHR flights depart before noon.

HKG is the best, because CX offers 4 flights a day to LHR, and the connections to and from LHR to the NZ AKL-HKG-AKL flights are seamless.

SQ and TG are useless to NZ, because NZ does not fly to either SIN or BKK and won't be able to feed its own metal.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting docpepz (Reply 21):
NRT's also not great for connections

Amen to that. My xfr experiences in NRT were horrendous last week. Never again.

Quoting zeke (Reply 14):
Do not know. Given the way QF is courting China Eastern, and Emirates, more likely I would think they leave oneworld, or maybe BA/TK and CX/CA will be part of Star.

The situation is all about game-changing strategies now. The QF+EK move has essentially spurred a "domino affect" among individual network carriers, which has resulted in major alliance re-think. It's no longer about the airline planning strategic moves within the context of their respective alliance membership; rather, it's all about maximizing whatever opportunities, as they present themselves, to better position the airline to compete in the global realm.

Most interestingly, all of these structural changes are revolving around the Middle East/GCC: Australia/Asia on one side, Europe on the other. BA+Qatar+OW, AB/EY+AF-KL, QF+EK. Now, we have the distinct possibility that LH+TK may tie-up.

Some of these decisions have definitely rocked the boats, but nothing has over-turned the ships quite yet. Personally, I think this is all too natural: these alliances have added so many partner carriers over the years and not accounted for conflicts with national pride and differences in cultural/operating strategies. There will inevitably be consequences from that, with individual carriers taking actions that put their best interests at heart, and not necessarily benefiting the greater good of the whole alliance and/or strategic partners. Without question, the largest shocks will start to occur IF a major network carrier chooses to switch/ditch an alliance upon seeing diminished value in membership.
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huaiwei
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:45 pm

Interesting development. One by one, airlines seem to be dropping out of the Kangaroo route, at least on routings transiting via East/SE Asia.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 15):
How many SE Asian carriers does *A need anyway?
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 19):
CX / HKG is unique from the rest of SE Asia

HKG is not part of Southeast Asia, which is why it is unique. And yes, Star Alliance does desperately need more Chinese presence especially given ST's dominance of Southern/Eastern China and the likelihood of Hainan going to OneWorld which may erode CA's dominance up north.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 15):
I doubt SQ would like that.

But who seriously cares what SQ thinks?

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 15):
Or even CA for that matter.

CA would be more than happy to have CX in bed. Their Beijing masters would applaud too.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 19):
closest to the great circle routing between SYD and LHR.

The likes of EK has shown that it doesn't really matter that much.
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Kaiarahi
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 7):
This will free up additional equipment for NZ, where will they deploy that capacity ?
Quoting zeke (Reply 12):
It is an asset worth money. They have indicated in the article that they are dismissing 70 LHR based crews, that is a clear indication that they will not be using that slot.

NZ have been saying for some time that they will focus on the Pacific rim. ORD/IAH have been rumoured for the 789s due early in 2014 and S. America seems to be on the agenda (note that N.Z. is one of the leads for the Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade agreement).

On the other hand, LAX-LHR is NZ's most profitable international sector. If they keep the LHR slot, they might think about AKL-SFO-LHR.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
avek00
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 22):
Personally, I think this is all too natural: these alliances have added so many partner carriers over the years and not accounted for conflicts with national pride and differences in cultural/operating strategies.

I disagree. This year, the only carriers to embrace "unorthodox" tie-ups thus far are those for whom the existing global alliance frameworks carry limited value due to geography (QF, NZ), cooperation ceilings (CX vis-a-vis BA/QF), or growth constraints (BA due to LHR limitations, AB due to Berlin limitations and cost pressures, AF due to cost structure limitations). There's no impending "wave" afoot -- rather, non-American carriers that should have been acting in a more ad hoc fashion all along are finally beginning to do so because economic imperatives are forcing their hands.
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IrishAyes
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:00 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 25):
There's no impending "wave" afoot -- rather, non-American carriers that should have been acting in a more ad hoc fashion all along are finally beginning to do so because economic imperatives are forcing their hands.

Economic factors are indeed the primary driving factor, but one cannot overlook some of the more subtle under linings which do indeed incur differences in alliance approach.

Look at the variances between LH/AC and TG/SQ. The former is much more centered upon formulating strategic partnerships, JV-agreements, and cross-sharing (arguably with the intention of stifling the competition and achieving pricing power + market share dominance) whereas the latter are much more hands-off and prefer to remain independent/loosely affiliated in the alliance.

The same argument holds for AA+IAG vs. CX; AF+KL vs. KE, etc.

The airlines that fall into the former category have realized that this strategy is not sustainable over the long-run because there are faster-growing airlines in the GCC region that have made tremendous inroads with rapid expansion plans. The "far-flung" airlines, as you've mentioned, have simply been the first-movers to adapt to this because they are the most disadvantaged.

You'll notice, however, that the domino effect IS starting to show here because it has finally moved into the Asia-Pac region. One case in point is the NZ+CX partnership, which is seeking to consolidate/streamline capacity and yield discipline on the LHR-HKG-AKL corridor, and the other being the QF+EK tie-up which has ditched SIN as the hub for the Kangaroo hub. Put simply, these two data points are showing that Asia is indeed directly impacted by the successes of the GCCs, with the tidal wave starting from the Australia+Oceania region.

I will agree with you that again, the primary driving factor IS due to points of weaknesses that cannot be overcome easily given tangible forces such as unpredictable economic cycles and geography.

However, you cannot deny that the ones that have been recently engaging in the "unorthodox" practices are indeed the ones who, at some point or another, put the most stock into the alliance: BA and QF are founding members of OneWorld, as is Air France with SkyTeam and Lufthansa with Star. All of these carriers have been recently engaging in alliance re-think because current conditions are simply unsatisfactory.
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nicode
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:08 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 20):
So one less carrier now circumnavigating the globe I assume?

The only one !
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:36 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 24):
If they keep the LHR slot, they might think about AKL-SFO-LHR.

It is difficult to see them starting any additional services to the UK from North America soon. Their 77E's need refurbishing which is not happening until 2014. This needs to happen in my view to get Y+ upto scratch, the 789's are apparently designated to replace the 767's and the 77W's , if they turned them around in SFO ,maybe too large .
 
aklrno
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 18):
In LAX NZ's transit passengers are confined to a transit lounge.

When NZ moves to the new TBIT building at LAX will that change the transit experience?

I'll be flying AKL-LHR in about 5 months. I'd be happy to do it on CX, one of the few airlines rated better than NZ. And I love their HKG lounges. Much better than what NZ offers at the United lounge.

I wonder whose FF miles I get when I buy the ticket from NZ. I presume *A miles all the way?
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:45 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 28):

It is difficult to see them starting any additional services to the UK from North America soon.

I don't disagree. But if they let the LHR slot go, it will be extremely difficult to get back.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
BA174
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 14):
Do not know. Given the way QF is courting China Eastern, and Emirates, more likely I would think they leave oneworld, or maybe BA/TK and CX/CA will be part of Star.

BA would never leave OW, the AA/IB/JAL fits them perfectly.

Maybe NZ will jump to OW as they mulled the idea a few years ago.
 
avek00
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 26):
However, you cannot deny that the ones that have been recently engaging in the "unorthodox" practices are indeed the ones who, at some point or another, put the most stock into the alliance: BA and QF are founding members of OneWorld, as is Air France with SkyTeam and Lufthansa with Star. All of these carriers have been recently engaging in alliance re-think because current conditions are simply unsatisfactory.

I don't dispute this assertion, but I don't see the recent developments as the beginning of a larger trend, but rather the reaction of a few airlines that are basically stifled from other forms of adaptation to a changing marketplace.

Western European carriers, Aussie/Kiwi carriers, and Cathay Pacific are all especially vulnerable airlines. As much as a.nutters love to roast US legacies, the bottom line is that during the first dozen years of the 2000s they did the needful -- good, bad, and ugly -- to restructure every facet of their operations, and have again become efficient powerhouses that can viably compete with anyone. European and Aussie/Kiwi carriers, by contrast, are now the most expensive airlines on Earth to operate, and among the most inefficient of the developed world -- so much so, in fact, that they all leave substantial $$$ "on the table" because they cannot leverage many potential market opportunities on an economical basis. Cathay Pacific, for its part, is still trying to retool itself from the loss of substantial premium traffic flows vis-a-vis travel to/from China as direct links between Taiwan and the mainland opened up and the mainland Chinese longhaul market is better served by both Chinese and foreign carriers. Given these circumstances, it's no wonder that these airlines are going outside the box -- simply put, they have no choice.
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leftyboarder
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:59 pm

Quoting BA174 (Reply 31):
Maybe NZ will jump to OW as they mulled the idea a few years ago.

Don't they (NZ) own part of DJ? Them being in the same alliance with QF would raise competition issues on Australia-NZ, right?
 
ytz
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:01 pm

WOW. What is with all these alliances disintegrating in the Pacific?

[Edited 2012-11-05 12:03:19]
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:05 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 32):
European and Aussie/Kiwi carriers, by contrast, are now the most expensive airlines on Earth to operate, and among the most inefficient of the developed world -- so much so, in fact, that they all leave substantial $$$ "on the table" because they cannot leverage many potential market opportunities on an economical basis.

Do you have any facts (numbers) to back this up? Last time I checked, RyanAir and EasyJet were European carriers.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
avek00
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 35):
Do you have any facts (numbers) to back this up? Last time I checked, RyanAir and EasyJet were European carriers.

I'm referring only to legacy carriers with substantial longhaul operations -- Ryanair and EasyJet are irrelevant to this entire discussion.
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NZ107
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:30 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 20):
So one less carrier now circumnavigating the globe I assume?

That'll be the end of the only round-the-world service. No other airline meets up around the world (SQ comes close but the direct A345 flight goes to EWR, not JFK... And that's going to be pulled too.)

Quoting aklrno (Reply 29):
I wonder whose FF miles I get when I buy the ticket from NZ. I presume *A miles all the way?

But if you wanted OW miles, wouldn't you just choose to fly CX all the way?
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:37 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 32):
Western European carriers, Aussie/Kiwi carriers, and Cathay Pacific are all especially vulnerable airlines. As much as a.nutters love to roast US legacies, the bottom line is that during the first dozen years of the 2000s they did the needful -- good, bad, and ugly -- to restructure every facet of their operations, and have again become efficient powerhouses that can viably compete with anyone. European and Aussie/Kiwi carriers, by contrast, are now the most expensive airlines on Earth to operate, and among the most inefficient of the developed world -- so much so, in fact, that they all leave substantial $$$ "on the table" because they cannot leverage many potential market opportunities on an economical basis. Cathay Pacific, for its part, is still trying to retool itself from the loss of substantial premium traffic flows vis-a-vis travel to/from China as direct links between Taiwan and the mainland opened up and the mainland Chinese longhaul market is better served by both Chinese and foreign carriers. Given these circumstances, it's no wonder that these airlines are going outside the box -- simply put, they have no choice.

Good point. And it does bring into play the larger, global dilemma: for however much US airlines have diluted their overall product, they seem to be in decent shape (read: US Airways as a textbook example) vs. the other non-US network carriers; yet, people would much rather fly LH on PHL-FRA than US any day of the week.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:45 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 30):
I don't disagree. But if they let the LHR slot go, it will be extremely difficult to get back.

Agreed ! Are they allows to rent it out?
 
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NZ107
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:47 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 39):

What sort of time would a flight have to leave YVR/SFO/LAX in order for that slot to be used?
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 40):
What sort of time would a flight have to leave YVR/SFO/LAX in order for that slot to be used?

I would say about 1425 PST . Typical timetable time is 10hr 20min.
 
PA515
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
What happens to the LHR slot at 1145 which is the arrival of the ANZ flight via HKG ?

That should be 1445.
LAX-LHR arrives 1045, or 1115 Northern Summer 2013. ANZ35 HKG-LHR is 0905/1445, was going to be 1000/1615 Northern Summer 2013. ANZ38 LHR-HKG is a 2105 departure year round.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 40):
What sort of time would a flight have to leave YVR/SFO/LAX in order for that slot to be used?

YVR/SFO/LAX departure times would not be an issue, but AKL times would. To use 1445 or 1615 for an LHR arrival means leaving AKL about 0230. A 2105 LHR departure means leaving SFO/LAX for AKL about 0245 and YVR 0145, and messes up the transtasman connections with a late morning arrival.

Slot times can be sold or exchanged and some airlines lease them out, but I think there's a time limit for leasing.

PA515
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:56 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 42):
Slot times can be sold or exchanged.

So maybe an exchange with CX, if they have a suitable slot.
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NZ107
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:03 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 42):
YVR/SFO/LAX departure times would not be an issue, but AKL times would. To use 1445 or 1615 for an LHR arrival means leaving AKL about 0230.

But surely there'd be no harm in staying a couple of extra hours in LAX/SFO/YVR? ie make a flight depart AKL for the West Coast at midnight..

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 43):

So maybe an exchange with CX, if they have a suitable slot.

As some people noted, the timing of an early morning departure ex-HKG isn't favourable.. CX has a flight which departs about an hour after the NZ HKG-LHR flight.. And I think that's early enough for them. Meanwhile, they have at least 2 departures out of HKG around midnight
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:20 am

Another article about NZs axing of LHR-HKG. Article talks about more deals by NZ in regards to codeshares

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...ore-Air-New-Zealand-deals-expected
 
Jetstar315
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:59 am

It seems strange to me that Air NZ didn't come to a code-share arrangement with Virgin Atlantic HKG-LHR. After all, NZ is very involved with Virgin Australia now, so an alliance with Virgin Atlantic would have been an obvious choice IMHO!
 
xiaotung
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:57 am

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 46):
It seems strange to me that Air NZ didn't come to a code-share arrangement with Virgin Atlantic HKG-LHR. After all, NZ is very involved with Virgin Australia now, so an alliance with Virgin Atlantic would have been an obvious choice IMHO!

I don't really think this arrangement is about London. I think it's all to do with Mainland China and a direct response to CZ. With the forever expansion of CZ services in this part of the world (we are even seeing CZ A380 to AKL), you can get to most of China daily with one-stop in CAN. NZ's PVG services are only good for O&D traffic from Shanghai and surrounding areas. There is no NZ base partner in Shanghai since FM left *A. There is no place better and more efficient than HKG in terms of tranist facilities to Mainland China. Cathay with Dragon Air serve more than 20 cities in China and was the missing link between such a high profile route namely PVG and HKG.

With PVG, are we likely to see an extension to Europe? This was the plan for B787 so perhaps we will see it become a reality in 2014? It would be a no brainer to take advantage of the cheaper PVG based crew.

[Edited 2012-11-05 18:02:04]
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:36 am

- There will be no onward AKL-Xxx-LHR extension flights to replace it
- NZ will continue to find partners which suit it best regardless of alliance
- NZ will only be with Star Alliance, even if it has Skyteam or Oneworld Partners.
- The aircraft will be utilised somewhere else on a nonstop operation, and I dare say you will be looking to the Western Hemisphere not the Eastern Hemisphere.
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RE: CX/NZ Form Alliance+Air NZ Drops HKG-LHR

Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:55 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 48):
The aircraft will be utilised somewhere else on a nonstop operation, and I dare say you will be looking to the Western Hemisphere not the Eastern Hemisphere.

Axing the HKG-LHR sector alone would only free up one 772, right? And if it's not for HNL services year round, I suppose EZE falls into the scope?
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