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TK787
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TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:21 am

Thanks to Stylo777 from the Turkish Aviation thread;

-Late tonight TK announced plans to fly to following cities depending on aircraft availability, bilaterals;
CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO and YUL

http://www.airkule.com/default.asp?page=haber&id=13022 (Turkish only)

Wow and more Wow;

After ordering almost 20 each 333 and 77W, TK is on the expansion road again.
Seriously, CCS, BOS and YUL were expected, but....
MEX, hot and heavy
SFO and HAV are too small of markets maybe.

If TK will actually fly to these cities, anything is possible then. Las Vegas, Puerto Rico, any others???
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:24 am

I see SFO and YUL being very good for TK. MEX is possible but as the OP said, hot and high. CCS, and especially HAV are out in left field too me.
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
C010T3
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:32 am

They will fly to those cities just like they have been announcing they would fly to EZE.
 
SCQ83
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:33 am

I am not surprised by MEX (can they fly non-stop ??) or SFO (which by no means is a small market) but I am certainly surprised about HAV (???)

According to the Cuban government, http://www.one.cu/publicaciones/06tu.../llegadadevisitantes/mensual/2.pdf , Russia is the 7th country that sends more visitors to Cuba (63k Jan-Sep '12), yet Aeroflot flies to SVO. By looking at the list of countries, I can't think of any other for whom IST is a logical connection (and even Moscow-Havana via IST is already a nice detour).
 
alphaomega
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:42 am

They haven't applied for landing rights in BOS yet so I doubt it will happen anytime soon.
 
Avianca
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:48 am

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
-Late tonight TK announced plans to fly to following cities depending on aircraft availability, bilaterals;
CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO and YUL
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 1):
CCS, and especially HAV are out in left field too me.

well even their should be a market in CCS, specially with many passengers to MidEast, but still I doubt it.
Anyhow may it be considence but I am right now planing a trip to IST from CCS  

cheers
Avianca
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MaverickM11
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:49 am

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
-Late tonight TK announced plans to fly to following cities depending on aircraft availability, bilaterals;
CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO and YUL

Now they're just making stuff up. Not that NKCIST was based on any data . TK needs to stop. Just stop. Fix your network; you have so much going for you but you're going to lose whatever remaining control you may have. And once that's done, then grow again.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
LAXintl
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:55 am

YUL service will be at the mercy of Canadians allowing a 2nd service point and added frequencies. TK has yet to be able to turn YYZ daily even.

SFO - smaller local market then LAX certainly, but could work by relying on IST hub for broad feed.

BOS - has been kicked around for 2-3 years now. There is good flow of traffic to/from Turkey especially educational, tech and medical most that moves via European on carriers like LH/LX. Add in benefits of IST hub could be a good spoke on the A330.

HAV - Cuba becoming ever more popular tourist market. A few days per week might work.

MEX - One of the world largest capital cities. But virtually zero local traffic demand. Not sure about what beyond markets that can successfully sell via IST.

CCS - I guess they are looking at the strong load demand current few European carriers experience at CCS.

=
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G500
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:56 am

Mexico City's altitude will be a problem, even for the mighty 777....

Isn't that has discouraged Emirates so far?
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:22 am

Most of these routes will require a 77W for the range. What is their schedule for receiving new 77W's?
 
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TK787
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:27 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 9):
Most of these routes will require a 77W for the range. What is their schedule for receiving new 77W's?

BOS, YUL will be 333.
77Ws arriving 3 in 2014, 7 in 2015, 6 in 2016 and onward....
 
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yellowtail
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:33 am

They said nothing about these being non-stop.....perhaps it will be IST-HAV-MEX ..HAV-MEX is not a small market if they can get the traffic rights....
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
aznmadsci
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:57 am

When do they plan on serving these cities?

I also take it IAH is still on schedule to start on 01Apr13?
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:12 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
SFO - smaller local market then LAX certainly, but could work by relying on IST hub for broad feed.

BOS - has been kicked around for 2-3 years now. There is good flow of traffic to/from Turkey especially educational, tech and medical most that moves via European on carriers like LH/LX. Add in benefits of IST hub could be a good spoke on the A330.

None of their US services are particularly full, and it's anecdotal of course but I fly them a couple times/year up front and they're never full, their Economy Comfort product clearly didn't make the cut, and IST is just becoming increasingly overcrowded. What was once a tremendous lounge is now a zoo with good food.

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 12):
I also take it IAH is still on schedule to start on 01Apr13?

Yes. That's real and for sale .
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MAH4546
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:15 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 10):
BOS, YUL will be 333.
77Ws arriving 3 in 2014, 7 in 2015, 6 in 2016 and onward....

"Will be?"

It's yet another laundry list of destinations, most of which won't happen anytime soon. Heck, TK can't even get EZE off the ground and the GRU schedule was modified to accomodate it!

I'll believe it when I see it. It's growth has been amazing and impressive, but about the only thing TK actually kept their word on was Houston.
a.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:41 am

If so it opens up a few more options to travel on a preferred airline of mine and still have lounge access. I'd love to head back to Havana
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
jfk777
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:03 am

How are Havana and Caracas going to work from Istanbul ? Mexico, SFO and Bosotn can work but Havana really. Does this show Turkish Airlines is just desperate to expand any where ?
 
Avianca
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:10 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 16):
How are Havana and Caracas going to work from Istanbul ? Mexico, SFO and Bosotn can work but Havana really. Does this show Turkish Airlines is just desperate to expand any where ?

Venezuela - has a big MidEast community, specially from Libanon, but also Palestina, Jordania, Syria etc.

Also the loads to China, India are increasing a lot, fares are high yield.
As before mentioned I still doubt it but for sure not impossible.
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AF022
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:02 am

Is TK making any money with all this expansion or are they just expanding expanding expanding?
 
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chrisnh
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:14 am

This region is not at all served to or from Boston, so there might be a 'gold-rush' of sorts to see who gets there first. Qatar has also said 'Boston' without being specific; Turkish now makes two such overtures. For their part, Emirates has said NOTHING about Boston and it wouldn't surprise me if they trumped the other two.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:13 pm

Anyone think there is starting to be too much capacity to the Middle East ? EK QR TK and Ethiad flying to many of the same places seems a bit much. Can YUL really support QR and TK?

It's also interesting that KU never saw the potential that QR and EK saw. LY will only be a niche carrier and SV will never be what the others are because no one want to transit in Saudi Arabia
 
jmc1975
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:50 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
HAV - Cuba becoming ever more popular tourist market. A few days per week might work.

MEX - One of the world largest capital cities. But virtually zero local traffic demand. Not sure about what beyond markets that can successfully sell via IST.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
Mexico City's altitude will be a problem, even for the mighty 777....

Couldn't MEX simply be a tag on IST-HAV? That would basically eliminate all the issues mentioned,
.......
 
ElPistolero
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:56 pm

YUL = brilliant. That would make me extremely happy. But...

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
YUL service will be at the mercy of Canadians allowing a 2nd service point and added frequencies. TK has yet to be able to turn YYZ daily even.

I read elsewhere that TK is going daily to YYZ from end 2012/early 2013. Took 3 years to get daily. Might take another 3 years to get into YUL. And six before they're daily. If we're lucky.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
What was once a tremendous lounge is now a zoo with good food.

As opposed to the Spartan, empty and not particularly comfortable lounges in N. America, with token food, and the occassional drink (sometimes by vouchter?) Thanks, but no thanks. I don't sleep at lounges so a zoo with good food sounds far more preferable than, say, the Maple Leaf Lounge at YOW, which I give a miss despite having the loyalty points - its nicely appointed, empty and generally very healthy by virtue of having precious little food.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 20):
Can YUL really support QR and TK

Yes, it can. TK is well placed to serve the large Lebanese/ME population (better than QR, geographically). Besides, they can offer lower prices than the EU carriers, what with not being subjected to spurious taxes, and I expect they won't have trouble taking pax off the Euro carriers, AF being the main exception because of the large O&D market between YUL and CDG.
 
SCQ83
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:10 pm

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 21):
Couldn't MEX simply be a tag on IST-HAV? That would basically eliminate all the issues mentioned

That could certainly make a lot of sense, they would avoid the issues with the non-stop to MEX and the issues when transiting in the US. IST-HAV-MEX is not a big detour either... and TK has a few tags in Asia, so nothing new here.

[Edited 2012-11-10 06:10:45]
 
migair54
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:17 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 23):
That could certainly make a lot of sense, they would avoid the issues with the non-stop to MEX and the issues when transiting in the US. IST-HAV-MEX is not a big detour either... and TK has a few tags in Asia, so nothing new here.

Actually it might work doing like IST-MEX-HAV-IST, so taking off from MEX with fuel for 3-4 hours only so they can maximize the payload...

If they fly to HAV is to have some russian market and also chinese, It might work like 3 days a week but i don´t think they will have the big yields to justify a direct flight to HAV, even AF, IB, they use very low F/J density planes for this destination.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
HAV - Cuba becoming ever more popular tourist market. A few days per week might work.

It has always been a bit market mainly for Europeans and Canadians but nothing specially good in revenue, cargo could be OK as well specially from South East Asia and China, but I still don´t think this will work.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:31 pm

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 22):
Besides, they can offer lower prices than the EU carriers, what with not being subjected to spurious taxes,

That's a good point, I never thought of. EU taxes are killing the ability of EU carriers to carry traffic from the western hemisphere to ME, South Asia and East Africa. So TK and EK and QR are taking traffic that use to go on EU carriers.
 
neveragain
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 14):
It's growth has been amazing and impressive, but about the only thing TK actually kept their word on was Houston.

Why do you think that is? It's bizarre to me (absent a pending comprehensive UA codeshare deal), and it's a market that is already highly competitive.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:31 pm

I love how TK announces more and more routes... that sometimes happen. When tickets are on sale *and* we're within 30 days of launch... I'll believe it.

TK is growing extremely quickly and due to good O&D traffic has potential to grow as a global hub (in particular, once the new 5 runway airport is build... when though?) But TK has odd route announcement strategies. There is only a small correlation between TK announcing they will serve a city and service within 2 years.

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
Late tonight TK announced plans to fly to following cities depending on aircraft availability

So they're waiting on the 787 or A350 eh?  
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 2):
They will fly to those cities just like they have been announcing they would fly to EZE.

   Exactly.

Quoting g500 (Reply 8):
Mexico City's altitude will be a problem, even for the mighty 777....

Yes. But possible to IST. DXB is another 1810 statute miles. The reason I use those is find the distance in statute miles and it is a good estimate of the 'against the wing' still air equivalent distance in nautical miles. (Yea... crude approximation, but it works ok). That limits the 777-300ER to 195,000lbm of people and equipment per my chart reading. That wouldn't be horrid as I then estimate a payload of only about 85,000 lbm or full passengers and that is about it.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=mex-ist,+mex-dxb

For some reason the 777-300ER performance pdf isn't loading... The google viewer worked though:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:kYVaWWKZi6oJ:www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/777rsec3.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgcbk6Pt4TcBhAyRKZtCoV1FRxDcFkuEr4hg19kT73F5Fj_cLcTILZEYZhL2CKa19bLBMA1LcSEohVHEIGdDY4ppOJExPvUVsosIBRbgX5sh0T0lkS9Ppjpyl7DnVWwWbXZmo97&sig=AHIEtbTAZRWe6W1kbCDWq_F7QJYvUOc4LA

To DXB, the plane would be losing about 30 passengers on a sea level takeoff. It wouldn't be possible to fly MEX-DXB against any wind (or vice versa) due to the added range. But IST is just possible.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 25):
taxes are killing the ability of EU carriers to carry traffic from the western hemisphere to ME, South Asia and East Africa. So TK and EK and QR are taking traffic that use to go on EU carriers.

No doubt. But self inflicted wounds do not count. IMHO, those taxes are to mask failures in hub expansion. It will be interesting to see how TK expands.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
as739x
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:38 pm

SFO Finally!

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
SFO and HAV are too small of markets maybe.

How is SFO a small market? Metro population of over 7 million (7.2) and number (1) medium incomes in the US. SFO has a large UA feed and as stated above the IST feed on the other end, I think it can be successful
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
neveragain
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:40 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 28):
SFO has a large UA feed

Immaterial if there is no codeshare.
 
EddieDude
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 24):
Actually it might work doing like IST-MEX-HAV-IST, so taking off from MEX with fuel for 3-4 hours only so they can maximize the payload...

Well that depends on the bilaterals. If 5th freedom rights are not available, I don't think they will be easy to secure.

MEX-IST is shorter than other long 77W flights. It is 6,173 nm, whereas DXB-LAX is 7,246 nm, and DXB-IAH is 7,097 nm. MEX-IST can be done in a shorter time than IST-MEX because of tailwind. I would imagine MEX-IST can be done nonstop with a very small penalty or without one altogether.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
G500
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:19 pm

My guess, it MEX ever lands A Middle Eastern or Asian carrier, or in this case, Turkish Airlines, it will have to be with a stop somewhere. with MEX's high altitude, you start talking take off penalties, airlines loose business that way.
 
SCQ83
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:43 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 31):

I would say that for a carrier like Emirates, which seems to have a very logical growth strategy.

This is not the case for TK... it looks that their target is to open as many destinations as possible to the cost of frequencies or direct routes. TK does some awkward ones... for instance Ulan Baatar via Bishkek, Accra via Abidjan, Entebbe via Kigali (I think QR does that as well) or Mogadishu via Djibouti.

And which I think is more significant for this case (I agree the previous ones are very secondary airports and medium-haul, not comparable to a MEX-IST), when they started GRU (first Middle Eastern carrier out of TK/EK/EY/QR serving the city) it was via DKR for a while. If TK enters Mexico, they would be the 1st ME carrier in the city... and with the difference (when compared to Brazil-Gulf) that QR/EY/EK will have hard doing a direct route even if they wish.
 
EddieDude
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:52 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 31):
, it will have to be with a stop somewhere. with MEX's high altitude, you start talking take off penalties,

As we have established, MEX-IST is much shorter than other 77W routes, and is helped by tailwinds. Penalties may not be necessary at all. Additionally, MEX is not as hot as many purport it to be. Temperatures are substantially lower on average compared to other regions just south of the tropic of Cancer precisely as a result of the altitude, and one would expect the MEX-IST leg to take off in the late afternoon or early evening, which is not the hottest time of the day. The "summer" is not really hot, as it rains every afternoon. Spring would be the warmest time of the year, and the highest temperature at 2-4 pm during May and June rarely goes over 84° F.

By the same token, remember DL uses the 77L on JNB-ATL, which is much, much longer and also involves taking off from a high-altitude airport, and the flight is done nonstop. It is true, the 200LR has longer legs than the 300ER, but the distance in this case is also way longer.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:23 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 32):
(first Middle Eastern carrier out of TK/EK/EY/QR serving the city)

uuuuh, this is a tough statement. we had a discussion a few days ago in one thread and at the end it got deleted... actually it was decided that TK is a european airline, but let's not start that discussion again, please. just for info.
 
SCQ83
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:34 pm

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 34):

I was not trying to create any controversy, so I didn't expect anyone to reaffirm the Europeness of their country/airline, when I think it is very clear what I was saying.

Geographically TK is an European airline, but at least in this route, they would be likely targeting the same connecting traffic that EK/EY/QR would eventually carry if they ever open MEX. This is quite similar as Egyptair, that being an African airline (no discussion about it, CAI is in Africa), they compete more often with EK or QR than with TAAG or South African.
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:53 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 35):

I was not trying to create any controversy, so I didn't expect anyone to reaffirm the Europeness of their country/airline, when I think it is very clear what I was saying.

Well, now you made it clear.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 35):
they would be likely targeting the same connecting traffic that EK/EY/QR would

Plus eastern europe where the MEB are quite weak. But i also heard of cases that people travel from central europe to north america via IST.
 
radiopolitic
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:10 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):
There is only a small correlation between TK announcing they will serve a city and service within 2 years.

What are the routes that were announced and never followed up on?
 
as739x
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:29 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 29):

Both members of Star last I checked. I believe a matter of time.

[Edited 2012-11-10 13:49:24]
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
MeCe
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:41 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
None of their US services are particularly full, and it's anecdotal of course but I fly them a couple times/year up front and they're never full




At current week almost all of US flights have more than % 80 load, mostly over 90.If you are not happy with this loads I cant tell anymore, and we are in middle of winter there is no vacation. But I am very sad because it is almost impossible make a nonrev flight  
 
neveragain
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:10 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 38):
Both members of Star last I checked. I believe a matter of time.

AS739x, as I stated when you claimed SFO-IST would be a success by the same logic, it's only relevant if they have a codeshare. I know ex-UA had a codeshare with TK, but I'm not sure what's left. UA has an incentive to connect passengers on LH, SN, OS, and LX because of the joint venture arrangement.

Now TK could join the joint venture if it develops a relationship with LH, but that is a big IF.
 
jporterfi
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:37 pm

Wasn't there a thread a few weeks ago citing a link that mentioned that TK was thinking about starting ATL? Is that still possible (maybe with a 787)?
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:01 pm

If UA is not willing of codesharing with TK, why don't they collaborate with other us airlines? jetblue is a beginning, maybe AA is possible, why not. Star Alliance has priority, but if they do not want to work together...
 
Tupolev160
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:02 am

In short, TK looks (or wants to look) like EK and QR just without the brains. Their network (over-)expansion is absurd, unsustainable and reminds me of a child fighiting a complex "mine is bigger than yours/i have more toys than you do or at least as many even if i don't need them).
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
MaverickM11
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:09 am

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 43):
TK looks (or wants to look) like EK and QR just without the brains

I'd argue it's the opposite, although TK's expansion needs to be tempered so it doesn't lose control of the product. Turkey actually has a huge local market for business, ethnic, and tourism related travel. Nobody wanted to go to DXB until the government spent a fortune building a zillion malls, and no one, I mean no one, wants to go to AUH/DOH of their own volition .
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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lightsaber
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:00 am

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 34):
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 32):
(first Middle Eastern carrier out of TK/EK/EY/QR serving the city)

uuuuh, this is a tough statement. we had a discussion a few days ago in one thread and at the end it got deleted... actually it was decided that TK is a european airline, but let's not start that discussion again, please. just for info.

As already noted, it is the geographic competition TK would compete with.

Quoting radiopolitic (Reply 37):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):
There is only a small correlation between TK announcing they will serve a city and service within 2 years.

What are the routes that were announced and never followed up on?

EZE
http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_getNewsById.action?newsId=271203

Boston, Detroit, and Atlanta:
http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...ouston-and-potentially-miami-77202

Where is Detroit and Atlanta in the latest press release?

Here is a 2011 press release that includes Miami, Boston, and Detroit (but no Atlanta, but Houston which is served):
http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=364097#.UJ8EhcXA98Q


So I found links for Buenos Aires, Boston, Detroit, and Miami where TK made an announcement and hasn't followed up. Now, to be fair TK did say 2012 or 2013. Its not that TK doesn't expand (they are expanding fast), but that the cities they actually fly to keep shifting. e.g, the earliest I found TK flying to Houston was February 2011 with service started June (maybe May) of this year. But otherwise, TK will mention cities and there isn't a tight correlation with the press release and service. For example, where is Detroit, Atlanta, or Miami in this current press release? They put in CCS, MEX, and YUL instead. Not a big deal, but as I noted, just not a good correlation.

I have no doubt TK will expand. But as to where, I think my fellow a.netters have better guesses than the TK press releases.  

Lightsaber
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SCQ83
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:43 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 44):

I think that TK's expansion does not make much sense. They seem to be obsessed with the number of destinations (just see their commercials with the likes of "160 destinations", etc. every now and then with a growing number) in contrast to frequencies, reasonable layovers, non-stop destinations or IST-Ataturk that is more and more a joke (overpacked, overpriced and quite frequently unprofessional staff). Sometimes I ever wonder if they make market analysis for some destinations. Also many new destinations are just opened with 3 or 4 flights per week (often in A320/B737 for short/medium haul flights). Just in contrast with EK, which almost any new destination today is opened with a daily wide-body.

I haven't ever connected with TK from the US, but I have done it a few times from Europe.

Connecting with TK Europe-Middle East/Eastern Europe is usually quite effective... because those are short to medium long haul flights with (usually) multiple daily flights. But it is just chance. It just works because of quantity... let's say if you have two daily flight MAD-IST and 3 or 4 daily IST-GYD (Baku), you will likely find some good timings and short layovers in an "odd" route such MAD-XXX-GYD. But if you want to connect with long haul to Asia... good luck... it might or it might not and you will have unreasonable layovers (and many major cities are not even daily).

This is not the case with EK. If you take the afternoon services from anywhere in Europe, you know that you will have all the Asian services at midnight in Dubai when you arrive (and the other way around to return).

To be fair, I think QR and EY's model is a bit like Turkish's (but not that to their extent)... a bit of a mess. EK is pretty much unmatched.

[Edited 2012-11-10 20:44:38]
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:01 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 46):
I think that TK's expansion does not make much sense. They seem to be obsessed with the number of destinations (just see their commercials with the likes of "160 destinations", etc. every now and then with a growing number) in contrast to frequencies, reasonable layovers

I do think similar. But they are also densifying their old routes. To the biggest airports they have 3-4 daily flights. The first bank of flights to Europe depart 8-9am (after long haul and medium haul flights from asia arrive), arriving back to IST around 3-4pm, on time for India, Pakistan departures. Many flight arrive from Europe around 10pm on time for asian departures. With time, aircraft and and airport that is not slot restricted we will of course get a dense network in terms of freq.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 46):
But if you want to connect with long haul to Asia... good luck... it might or it might not and you will have unreasonable layovers (and many major cities are not even daily).

Most of their long haul asian flights are daily, exceptions are KIX 6w, CAN 4w.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:16 am

How awesome! I can officially replace LH as my airline  .

Let's see how this all plays out.

Saludos,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
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TK787
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RE: TK To CCS, MEX, HAV, BOS, SFO, YUL

Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:46 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 28):
How is SFO a small market? Metro population of over 7 million (7.2) and number (1) medium incomes in the US. SFO has a large UA feed and as stated above the IST feed on the other end, I think it can be successful

You could be correct. My initial reaction TK might not be able to fill both LAX and SFO. But I have been terrible at predicting TK performance in the past. Who knows they might even fly to Vancouver or SEA one day.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 41):
Wasn't there a thread a few weeks ago citing a link that mentioned that TK was thinking about starting ATL? Is that still possible (maybe with a 787)?

That was last year. It was supposed to be IST-IAD-ATL-IAD-IST. TK trying to utilize planes at destination airports, instead of sitting on tarmac. But never materialized. Same thing with IST-GRU. Next year we might finally see IST-GRU-EZE-GRU-IST.

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