ojas
Topic Author
Posts: 1131
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:23 am

India To Resume Bilateral Talks With DXB,BKK,SIN

Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:55 pm

A welcome move by the GOI,

For the records, India now does 200 weekly flights to DXB from 14 destinations and DXB does 194 weekly flights to 11 destinations in India.



http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/india-to-resume-talksdubai-singapore-to-increase-capacitypermit-more-flights/195398/on
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 12050
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: India To Resume Bilateral Talks With DXB,BKK,SIN

Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:10 pm

This text from your link speaks volumes: Reversing its stance the civil aviation ministry has decided to negotiate with governments of Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Oman and Singapore to allow for more flights between India and these countries.

That is quite a reversal. I suspect it is due to the recovery of the Indian aviation market? Note, I'm asking as I do not know how the yields and load factors are right now.

Where is the latest India/Dubai bilateral limits. The online document is out of date as it lists the 2003 limit:
http://dgca.nic.in/bilateral/Bilateral.pdf

From the link, it only mentions seats but not that Indian flights are near the frequency limit:
In its report CAG had noted the capacity on India-Dubai route increased from 10,000 seats/week in 2003 to 54,000 seats/week in 2008-09 and that Emirates was utilising 98 percent of the capacity but Indian airlines were utilising less than half of the approved capacity. In case of Qatar the capacity increased from 2872 seats/week to over 24,000 seats with Qatar Airways utilising over 18,000 seats and Indian airlines put together using 4,000-5,000 seats. Apart from additional seats per week foreign airlines were granted access to more Indian airports.


The indian carriers want more frequency, but are not close to the seat cap. The Dubai Carriers (EK and DH) want both. it will be an interesting negotiation. I notice the ministry only talks seats... fine.

But this isn't just about airlines. The GoI needs Dubai for the Chemical and Pharma industries. Bilaterals are never about one industry. Until more air service rights are granted, there is no reason for Dubai to sign a new bilateral in other industries. The reality is that growth in multiple industries in India is being held hostage to the ASA.

The big question is, will A380s be allowed into India? That will be an interesting debate.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
LAXDESI
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:13 am

RE: India To Resume Bilateral Talks With DXB,BKK,SIN

Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
A welcome move by the GOI,

Agree, and a good opportunity for Minister of Aviation to receive some large suitcases filled with gifts. Elections are likely to come soon, so I expect to see more revision to bilaterals before the next election.

This may hurt Indian carriers, but opening up of the market will benefit the consumers and the Indian economy a lot more.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4368
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: India To Resume Bilateral Talks With DXB,BKK,SIN

Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:53 pm

Details of the traffic rights

Air India:

Delhi-Rome-Madrid/ Barcelona; Delhi-Moscow; Delhi-Sydney/ Melbourne; Mumbai-Nairobi, Mumbai-Najaf

Jet Airways:

Mumbai-Jakarta; Delhi-Barcelona; Mumbai-Zurich; Delhi-Tashkent; Mumbai-Ho Chi Minh City

SpiceJet:

Lucknow- Delhi-Macau; Delhi- Najaf ; Delhi-Macau; Delhi-Ho Chi Minh City
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 12050
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: India To Resume Bilateral Talks With DXB,BKK,SIN

Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:57 am

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 2):
Agree, and a good opportunity for Minister of Aviation to receive some large suitcases filled with gifts. Elections are likely to come soon, so I expect to see more revision to bilaterals before the next election.

Sadly, after years of following Indian aviation here on a.net, I think your opinion of why this is happening now is 'spot on.'

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 2):
This may hurt Indian carriers, but opening up of the market will benefit the consumers and the Indian economy a lot more.

   But will help those Indian carriers starting their international markets by going 'half way there' by providing more service to the competitions hubs.

Any hints on how much growth is expected in the bilaterals?

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
Vimanav
Posts: 1440
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 4:33 am

RE: India To Resume Bilateral Talks With DXB,BKK,SIN

Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:44 am

Welcome move indeed.

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
For the records, India now does 200 weekly flights to DXB from 14 destinations

228 in Winter Sked 12

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
VIDP
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:56 am

RE: India To Resume Bilateral Talks With DXB,BKK,SIN

Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:41 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
The GoI needs Dubai for the Chemical and Pharma industries

Pharma in Dubai ? I though its India which has one of the highest number of generic drug manufactring companies in India. Infact LH has specially invested in cold chain centre at Hyd Airport to handle pharma.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 12050
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: India To Resume Bilateral Talks With DXB,BKK,SIN

Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:23 pm

To Put the numbers in perspective:
Currently, Emirates operates more than 2,500 flights a week and flies to 123 destinations worldwide.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/most-p...te-emirates-airline-222901640.html

That link also points out the high priority for EK to expand in China, so it look like Tim Clark has some busy negotiating ahead.   

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/most-p...te-emirates-airline-222901640.html

Searching for the latest MOU between Dubai and India, I found there were 450 flights/week between the UAE and India, which implies almost 90% are to Dubai:
http://mea.gov.in/Images/pdf/india-u...tions-16-05-2012-press-release.pdf

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 5):

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
For the records, India now does 200 weekly flights to DXB from 14 destinations

228 in Winter Sked 12

What is the weekly cap in flights? I know dubai based carriers are at their seat cap, but what is the flight cap? The prior MOU seemed to have no flight cap. Is that the case? If so, Indian airlines would not be the reason India signs a new MOU.

I was able to find the MOU *prior* to the current one, but not the latest:
http://dgca.nic.in/bilateral/uae0507.pdf

For some reason, the root directory has zero bilaterals signed after 2007 at that India web site.  http://dgca.nic.in/bilateral/bil_ind.htm

Quoting VIDP (Reply 6):
Pharma in Dubai ? I though its India which has one of the highest number of generic drug manufactring companies in India.

Dubai is the mid-East distribution center for chemicals and pharma (an offshoot of their early contract refining and flower transportaton) and they are the enabler for India pharma growth in the mid-east, Russia, and parts of Africa. However, just as there is a cap on how many Indian laborers re-negotiated in each bilateral, so are the other aspects.

No one else has the climate controlled warehouses to handle temperature sensitive goods as well as EK and the other parts of the Dubai supply chain. I find it ironic that EK's initial focus on those warehouses was flowers and the higher margin and now more profitable for all parties pharma business just seemed to grow naturally.

I'm just pointing out there are other aspects of the bilateral that must be negotiated and that India benefits from the trade. This forum tends to purely focus on the air service agreements which is natural, but when it comes to bilaterals, the other aspects are far more important for India.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
ojas
Topic Author
Posts: 1131
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:23 am

RE: India To Resume Bilateral Talks With DXB,BKK,SIN

Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:06 pm

So Spicejet adds a daily DXB - COK flight from December 10th.

Indian carriers will now be 207 flights per week to DXB whereas DXB carriers will be at 194 weekly flights.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos