727LOVER
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WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:58 pm

I remember reading that TPA would be getting the 738 in November. I have yet to see one. What arriving flights use the 738?

Thanx in advance.


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avi8
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:38 pm

Another question, how many flights does WN have at TPA now? Are they expanding any routes? When will MDW be re-introduced?

Thanks,
Avi8
avi8

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727LOVER
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:47 pm

AFAIK, MDW never stopped
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:53 pm

I'm seeing 4 flights a day TPA-MDW:

FLT843
FLT4200 (THIS one is showing as a B738 on southwest.com on 11/12)...is that a special flight?
FLT949
FLT691 (THIS one is showing as a B738 on southwest.com on 11/12)
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:58 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
is that a special flight?

4000 series are normal flights now (this is fairly recent, within the last 6 months or so). They tend to be - or connect to - new routes or cities.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:04 pm

Searching on Flightaware could get you the answer - just do a search for the day

When I was there the other day

There were flights from MDW, PHX and LAS using 738s

I don't remember which city arrived at which time...

There was one I believe from MDW around 10:30am or so that I didn't see.

The other flights arrived around 3:15, 5:05 and 5:15 respectively (just don't recall which city order)
 
AirframeAS
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:06 pm

They pop up in DEN every now and then.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:16 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 1):
Another question, how many flights does WN have at TPA now? Are they expanding any routes? When will MDW be re-introduced?

I was telling 727Lover the other day that I noticed more Air Tran 717s operating into TPA with just one FL 737 during the 6 hours I was there. It seemed that possibly the SWA flights were slightly down which makes me theorize that Southwest is replacing some lower capacity Southwest flights with Air Tran 717s. I count about 15 arrivals during the time I was there with TRS 717s, normally during that time I was there it would be half as much.

MDW is using the 737-800s I believe twice a day to TPA. Southwest is still the 800 lb gorilla at TPA, probably 70% of the flights.
 
aztrainer
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:23 pm

PHX - TPA

WN - 4118 & 4985

are showing as 800's and PHX is starting to see a lot more 800's cycle through. On Tuesday of this week, I counted four 800's taking off from PHX in the 8:30 - 10:00 time period.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):

They pop up in DEN every now and then.

Cool...

So back to TPA, looking at Monday's schedule I see one RON and 4 turns operated by -800s. I'm not comfortable giving out specific flight info anymore, I'm sorry. But shouldn't be too hard to find.  
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:58 am

There are 30+ -800's in the system now...
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
countrymalenc
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:07 pm

Latest aircraft numbers at SWA

88- 717 Airtran
137- 737-300
20- 737-500
424 737-700
28 737-800

Total aircraft 697

Of which by the end of 2012 246 Evolve interiors will be converted along with 11 Airtran 737 for a total of 257 737-700 with 143 seats.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:44 pm

Since July MCO was getting a daily arrival on an 800 from LAS around 4:20pm. I see MCO isn't getting any 800s from LAS anymore, but now every MDW flight is an 800. I saw something like 15 daily flights now to MCO with the 800 coming from CMH, PIT, PHL, BUF, STL, BNA also.
 
avi8
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:18 pm

How many aircraft are they getting next year? Also, how will they make up the loss of capacity given that they will give the 717's to DL?
avi8

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luvfa
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:23 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 13):

MCO now has 16 flights in and out on 800s on Saturdays! Been quite an adjustment fro Ramps/Ops/Provo!
 
airliner371
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 13):

How many aircraft are they getting next year? Also, how will they make up the loss of capacity given that they will give the 717's to DL?

See AirTran 737 Conversions To SWA . It explains most if not everything fleet wise at WN/FL.

They are getting 20 new 737s next year and retiring 16 717s. That leaves either 4 aircraft if SWA wants to expand or 4 more classic retirements if they want flat capacity. It gives them a lot of flexibility.

[Edited 2012-11-11 15:26:45]
 
neveragain
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:36 pm

Systemwide departing flights scheduled for tomorrow:

From BWI

BOS
DEN
LAS
MCO
SAT

From MDW

BUF
DEN
FLL
HOU x4
LAS x3
LGA x2
MCO x2
PHX x2
RDU
RSW x2
SAN
SMF
TPA x3

From LAS

AUS x2
CMH x2
DEN x2
HOU x2
IND
MCI x2
MCO x2
MDW x3
OMA
PIT x2
SAN
SAT
TPA

From PHX

BUF
IND
LAX
MCO
MDW x2
ONT
SMF
TPA

From AUS

DCA
SAN

TPA arriving flights

WN714 from MDW, 10:30 turning to WN4200 to MDW at 11:15

WN4985 from PHX, 15:35 turning to WN691 to MDW

WN792 from LAS, 17:15 continuing on to BWI, 18:00

WN2517 from MDW, 17:25 turning to WN760 to PHX, 18:10

WN624 from MDW, 22:15 turning to WN985 to LAS, 07:05

Interesting to see the longer ground times, especially for the LAS-TPA-BWI direct flight.
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:07 am

Quoting neveragain (Reply 16):

They're all 45 minutes... -300, -500, -700's are scheduled at 25-45 minute turns; why would an -800 be less?
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
neveragain
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:35 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 17):
They're all 45 minutes... -300, -500, -700's are scheduled at 25-45 minute turns; why would an -800 be less?

I'm not saying they would be less. They are all at the end of the range you quote. There's a big difference between -300s, -500s, and -700s being scheduled for turns of between 25 and 45 minutes and the -800s all being 45 minutes, wouldn't you agree?

Not that's it's unexpected with a larger aircraft, but to not have the flexibility for quicker turns will be new to WN and, other things equal, makes the direct flights less attractive.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:38 am

Quoting neveragain (Reply 18):
There's a big difference between -300s, -500s, and -700s being scheduled for turns of between 25 and 45 minutes and the -800s all being 45 minutes, wouldn't you agree?

Are you considering the possibility that it's a TPA issue and not a -800 issue? I don't know one way or the other, but I do know that if you look at two cities with similar-sized WN operations, it's not uncommon to see the turns almost uniformly shorter at one than at the other.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
neveragain
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:46 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 19):
Are you considering the possibility that it's a TPA issue and not a -800 issue? I don't know one way or the other, but I do know that if you look at two cities with similar-sized WN operations, it's not uncommon to see the turns almost uniformly shorter at one than at the other.

As at what airports?

Not sure what's different with TPA that'd cause longer-than-average turn times. (Or what would cause longer-than-average turn times in general. I can understand shorter-than-average turn times for direct flights at stations like, say, AMA, where most of the traffic is in transit from DAL and there are fewer people to board.)

Maybe they're going with 45 minutes for now and will "tweak" later down the road.

Surely someone from WN can tell us whether 45 minutes is the standard or if TPA is special for whatever reason.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:48 am

Quoting neveragain (Reply 20):
As at what airports?

If you were to compare average turn times at BNA and STL, I think you'd find a fairly significant gap even though the network and mix of types is similar. SFO and SMF might be another good pair.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:13 am

How is 45 minutes too long to unload 175 passengers and their checked luggage and then load 175 passengers and their checked luggage. Keep it in perspective. 737-500=122 passengers. 737-800=175 passengers. Big difference.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
neveragain
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:04 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):
If you were to compare average turn times at BNA and STL, I think you'd find a fairly significant gap even though the network and mix of types is similar. SFO and SMF might be another good pair.

The only reason I can think of for longer average turn times at either BNA or STL is because the schedules may be more banked at one airport than another. SFO may have longer turn times than SMF to minimize the effects of airfield delays.

I still don't see why TPA would be special. I wouldn't expect any banking with its schedules. If I'm missing something, let me know.

In any case, maybe a WN employee will chime in. I'm certainly not going to go match schedules from the OAG or the Southwest website.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 22):

How is 45 minutes too long to unload 175 passengers and their checked luggage and then load 175 passengers and their checked luggage. Keep it in perspective. 737-500=122 passengers. 737-800=175 passengers. Big difference.

Jesus, who is saying it is? All I said was that it was "interesting" to see the longer turn times. I also said that it was not to be unexpected with larger aircraft.

It is worth noting, however, as the larger aircraft have necessitated a change to WN's operating model.

Plenty of perspective there, my friend.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:10 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 23):
I still don't see why TPA would be special. I wouldn't expect any banking with its schedules. If I'm missing something, let me know.

Inbound taxi times? It's been years since I used TPA regularly, but I'm fairly sure I've never landed on the east runway (18R/36L until a few years ago, now 1R/19L). It's different from MCO in that regard, as WN can use use the 17s for arrival much of the time. I've even arrived 17R on WN during slower periods (e.g. Saturday mornings).

Quoting neveragain (Reply 23):
All I said was that it was "interesting" to see the longer turn times. I also said that it was not to be unexpected with larger aircraft.

OTOH, as far as I know WN does not schedule 735s for shorter turns.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
neveragain
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:11 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 24):
Inbound taxi times?

What do taxi times have to do with turn times?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:15 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 25):
What do taxi times have to do with turn times?

Turns are a place to pad schedules. Why does DL schedule longer turn times than WN at an outstation for an M88 or a 738?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
neveragain
Posts: 466
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:28 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
Turns are a place to pad schedules. Why does DL schedule longer turn times than WN at an outstation for an M88 or a 738?

I think you're really reaching here, and I;m not sure why. You're the one who suggested that WN's scheduling patterns at TPA could be different than those used at most other airports systemwide, while acknowledging that you don't know one way or the other. I've tried to present logical arguments as to why that could be the case at the four airports you've mentioned, and you keep on speculating.

It's one thing to pad schedules for airfield delays at congested airports that get frequent ground stops, like SFO and the New York airports. It's another thing to pad schedules at hubs, when pushing 5 minutes later than schedule can result in a 30-minute delay. Taxi times should be generally consistent and relatively predictable (especially at an airport like TPA), and I think any "padding" would be baked into the arrival and departure time, not the turn time. Besides, we're not even talking about padding schedules, here. We're talking about padding turn times.

And you know the reason as to why DL's scheduling patterns are different than WN's, and that is because it operates a hub-and-spoke operation. On the surface it may not matter on the spoke end, but in reality, DL is scheduling for arrival times at the hub.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:47 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 27):
I think you're really reaching here, and I;m not sure why.

If there is TPA-specific pad - and again, I don't know one way or the other - I'm not sure of the explanation. Perhaps it has to do with whatever baggage handling issue causes carriers like American, United and US Airways to have earlier than normal check in cutoffs for checked bags at TPA.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
neveragain
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:59 pm

RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 28):
Perhaps it has to do with whatever baggage handling issue causes carriers like American, United and US Airways to have earlier than normal check in cutoffs for checked bags at TPA.

Or perhaps WN just has longer turn times for the larger 737-800s? Isn't that the most logical explanation?

I'm not sure how bags are delivered in TPA, but the separate landside and airside may complicate the process. That said, I'm sure you can go to airports with longer checked bag cutoffs and find turn times unaffected. They're not necessarily related. (And in most cases, I doubt they are.)
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:03 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 29):
Or perhaps WN just has longer turn times for the larger 737-800s? Isn't that the most logical explanation?

I don't know that there's a trend to identify. You've looked at four flights out of what, a couple of hundred per day?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
737tanker
Posts: 263
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RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:18 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 17):
They're all 45 minutes... -300, -500, -700's are scheduled at 25-45 minute turns; why would an -800 be less?


The 25 minute turn at WN is basically a thing of the past. Most turns that I do now, for non -800s are 30-40 minutes. For the -800s the turns are normally 45-50 minutes.
 
neveragain
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:59 pm

RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:37 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 30):
I don't know that there's a trend to identify. You've looked at four flights out of what, a couple of hundred per day?

At least I presented some data and a defensible rationale. Go to southwest.com, match schedules (which is a cumbersome exercise), and try to present something that proves your speculation.

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 31):
For the -800s the turns are normally 45-50 minutes.

Thank you.
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:41 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 32):
At least I presented some data and a defensible rationale.

In the sense that "some" is "more than zero," I suppose you did. But we now have a better answer than either of us was able to provide.

I know you are new here and I appreciate the substance of your posts, but you really need to be nicer to people.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
neveragain
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:59 pm

RE: WN@TPA... Which Flights Are 738?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:24 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33):
In the sense that "some" is "more than zero," I suppose you did. But we now have a better answer than either of us was able to provide.

Yes, "some" is "more than zero." I believe the burden to prove otherwise was on you (or simply to stop participating).

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33):
I know you are new here and I appreciate the substance of your posts, but you really need to be nicer to people.

I may be new posting here but I certainly have been reading for a long time and have noticed some trends.

There are many people on this board who are enthusiasts, pure and simple, come here to learn and voice their opinions. Fair enough.

There are other people on this board who are ill-informed and post their conjectures, suppositions, and biases as facts, but do so strongly and in a transparent way that is easy for most to see. File under "fanboys." OK. But to the extent that people put themselves "out there" like that, they should be prepared to be proven wrong.

There are a few people on this board who also post conjectures, suppositions, and biases as facts, but do so in a not-so-transparent way to the extent to which they may be subconscious rationalizations. These posts are dangerously misleading because people tend to comfort themselves with what they want to hear.

There are others who are largely unbiased, industry professionals, who have a lot to offer to the discussion. I'm not sure if you're an industry professional, but I would say you're unbiased and have a comprehensive understanding of the industry.

I hope I'm in the last bucket, with the qualification of being very impatient with ignorance and opinions being presented as facts (not to mention strongly blunt) to people who don't have the tools to judge otherwise. I'll own that I'm "not nice" in this regard. But the number of people to whom I'm "not nice" is actually very little if you want to keep a list.

But then again, this back-and-forth seems to have been at least somewhat about picking a fight, and not one with much intellectual merit.

[Edited 2012-11-12 08:26:33]

[Edited 2012-11-12 08:28:48]

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