User avatar
usdcaguy
Topic Author
Posts: 1042
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:19 pm

Here is an interesting graphic on payscale.com; they rank the happiest airlines in terms of pay, stress, job satisfaction and operational performance (interestingly, they left out completion factor). Alaska was rated highest in terms of job satisfaction but also in terms of employee stress. Strangely, I can't find many variables that seem correlated to the category of job satisfaction. If anything, I would say on-time arrival rates seem to mirror job satisfaction somewhat with the exception of JetBlue (perhaps because of issues at JFK?) Employee pay also seems correlated except in the case of AA. Those carriers with the fewest customer complaints also charged the fewest bag fees...hmm...

Not sure if this is news to anyone, but AS/WN/B6 seem to be tops with DL matching WN in job satisfaction, which is no minor feat. Meanwhile, how is it that US Airways employees have the least stress but also the least job satisfaction? Seems like their relatively low pay may have an impact...

http://www.payscale.com/happiest-airlines-for-your-holiday-travel
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5638
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:25 pm

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

I like the correlation to on-time arrivals and baggage fees.

A better correlation would be on-time arrivals and percentage of the airline flights which go into JFK. I bet it would show the higher percentage of flights into JFK - the lower on-time arrivals rate.

I'm surprised AA doesn't rank lower on any employee satisfaction scale. When any airline goes through bankruptcy, employee stress and job satisfaction drops. Not just airlines. Folks are worried about their jobs.

The employee stress for AS would be related to the enviornment in which they operate - I would assume.
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Topic Author
Posts: 1042
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:37 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 1):
The employee stress for AS would be related to the enviornment in which they operate

What about their environment gives them less stress? B6 also is lower stress; perhaps it has something to do with a more limited network?
 
CanadianNorth
Posts: 3133
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:02 pm

Interesting article indeed. But perhaps the title should read "Payscale.com Ranks Happiest U.S. Airlines"

Just sayin'.
What could possibly go wrong?
 
User avatar
Tomassjc
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:38 pm

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:25 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 1):
employee stress for AS would be related to the enviornment in which they operate - I would assume.
Quoting usdcaguy (Thread starter):
Alaska was rated highest in terms of job satisfaction but also in terms of employee stress.


The bar is held up pretty high. I imagine for some, the stress comes from being consistent in jumping over it and getting the reward and satisfaction in the end!

Tomas SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3217
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:03 pm

Interesting...they appear to have casually left off Hawaiian, which ranks #1 in ontime arrivals every month (and least amount of cancellations), is a major US airline, probably has employees with low stress (it is Hawai'i, after all...), high pay, etc...

No to mention that our labor groups don't hate each other like some of the others...

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 1):
Lies, damned lies and statistics.

        
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
RyanairGuru
Posts: 6554
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:15 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 2):
What about their environment gives them less stress? B6 also is lower stress; perhaps it has something to do with a more limited network?

I think you've read it wrong, AS and B6 employees are the most stressed (which I find surprising) and US employees the least stressed (which I find equally surprising).

I am actually most surprised, however, that UA doesn't have the most stressed employees. What with 3/3, SHARES, having to deal with EWR and ORD on a daily basis etc.


Also, are UA pay rates really 7% below industry norms? If so I understand why Smisek isn't exactly in a rush to push through joint-contracts, which would almost certainly be a photocopy of DL's contracts.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Topic Author
Posts: 1042
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:25 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
I think you've read it wrong

I did read it wrong...thanks for pointing that out. I suppose my mind was thinking they must not have as much stress since they're among the most satisfied, but the opposite is true.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
I am actually most surprised, however, that UA doesn't have the most stressed employees.

Would greater unionization give them the ability to do their jobs without as much worry? They may not have as much stress on them if they have good scope clauses and working conditions that are better than those of their peers.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3018
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:33 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 1):
I'm surprised AA doesn't rank lower on any employee satisfaction scale. When any airline goes through bankruptcy, employee stress and job satisfaction drops. Not just airlines. Folks are worried about their jobs.

From what I've seen, both AA employees and the outsourced employees replacing them hate AA. I wonder how recent this data is.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 2):
What about their environment gives them less stress? B6 also is lower stress; perhaps it has something to do with a more limited network?

Or because airlines like B6 are well-run, so their front-line employees don't have to deal with the fallout from poor management decisions in addition to doing their regular jobs. Then again, any stress this eliminates is replaced by...

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 4):
The bar is held up pretty high. I imagine for some, the stress comes from being consistent in jumping over it and getting the reward and satisfaction in the end!

   Airlines like AS and B6 expect a lot from their employees, and reward them appropriately for meeting and exceeding these high standards.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1535
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:52 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
Also, are UA pay rates really 7% below industry norms? If so I understand why Smisek isn't exactly in a rush to push through joint-contracts, which would almost certainly be a photocopy of DL's contracts.

Yes pay is low at UA ...CO pay is Higher one reason the company seems to be dragging its feet..and UA operates HUB at places with Excessive costs of living SFO, ORD, DEN...
 
User avatar
Pohakuloa
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:28 am

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:59 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 5):
Interesting...they appear to have casually left off Hawaiian

Also remember, to some U.S. based businesses (and some citizens as well) Hawaii is a "foreign location." I remember a college ex of mine couldn't call me on her mobile because even though she got nationwide free calling, Hawaii was outside of the country. Not saying this site would make the same mistake, but you really never can say for sure.

I'm sure working for HA would likely put most in a much better mood as well, but that's just this man's opinion.
Fast cars and 'Jet A' - such a sweet smell!
 
COSPN
Posts: 1535
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:31 am

Guam is the same most US companies refuse service for Cell phones and other things because is not part of "real America" {CONUS } oh well least it is warm
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Topic Author
Posts: 1042
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:27 am

Quoting Pohakuloa (Reply 10):
I'm sure working for HA would likely put most in a much better mood as well, but that's just this man's opinion.

What I wonder is, how do employees at HA deal with Hawaii's high cost of living? I'd be interesting in hearing about whether that causes any stress, or if there are creative and easy ways of dealing with it.
 
BMI727
Posts: 11123
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:33 am

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 12):
What I wonder is, how do employees at HA deal with Hawaii's high cost of living?

I imagine a lot of them don't live in Hawaii. I think there is still a pilot base in Seattle, and I don't know about flight attendants.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Passedv1
Posts: 411
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:40 am

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:47 am

How do they figure that Alaska is the highest paid? What a bunch of BS.

Quoting usdcaguy (Thread starter):
From what I've seen, both AA employees and the outsourced employees replacing them hate AA. I wonder how recent this data is.

AA has been a terrible place to work for years. Unless they collected the data in the 70's, AA has never had happy/unstressed employees in recent memory. This survey is a bunch of BS.
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3217
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:01 am

Quoting Pohakuloa (Reply 10):
Also remember, to some U.S. based businesses (and some citizens as well) Hawaii is a "foreign location."

Don't I know it (and I assume that you do as well). I've been asked before if we use dollars and another time if the exchange rate was favorable to the dollar......................?

Quoting Pohakuloa (Reply 10):
I'm sure working for HA would likely put most in a much better mood as well, but that's just this man's opinion.

I personally think so. Management here is very pro employees I find so I imagine it's ok.

Just look at some of the other employees here who post....HAL, HALFA to name two...you don't usually find them complaining. But of course I can't speak for them as a whole. Just what I notice.

It's not perfect, but it's certainly not bad!

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 12):
What I wonder is, how do employees at HA deal with Hawaii's high cost of living? I'd be interesting in hearing about whether that causes any stress, or if there are creative and easy ways of dealing with it.

You learn interesting ways to deal. You learn quick where to buy groceries for cheap, best happy hour specials, and best places to live. I have learned how to stretch a dollar real well!

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
I imagine a lot of them don't live in Hawaii. I think there is still a pilot base in Seattle, and I don't know about flight attendants.

They do live in HI for the most part. I can't really get into why they do, you'll just have to trust me on that. That's for corporate HA, btw. Last I knew we had a base of some kind at LAX, not sure about the rest.
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
pualani
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 12:38 pm

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:00 pm

I can't speak for anyone else at my airline but I'm pretty happy with the way things are pay and stress wise. Being in the top 20% of the seniority helps. Pay here at HA ranks just below WN but I believe our work rules helps even it out a bit.

Expenses like gasoline is more expensive here but I rarely have to fill my tank but twice a month. Food costs here are outrageous but its actually cheaper for me to eat out than to shop and cook for myself. Airportuga310 has it right when he says our labor groups all get along well here and are working together to keep our expansion going smoothly.


pualani
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 1709
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:30 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 9):

Yes pay is low at UA ...CO pay is Higher one reason the company seems to be dragging its feet..and UA operates HUB at places with Excessive costs of living SFO, ORD, DEN...

ORD and DEN are not "excessive". They're both about average (if not lower @ DEN) for an airline hub. However, SFO and IAD are both quite high.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
brilondon
Posts: 3018
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:48 pm

This is a stupid article. The higher you seem to be in terms of pay, the higher the stress levels? Where are the rest of the world's carriers? Obviously this is US centric and there is no one else in the world. Just bunk.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
COSPN
Posts: 1535
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:50 pm

Sorry to DEN.. You are right IAD is excessive so it hits UA workers much harder than CO workers with only one expensive place EWR, (IAH-CLE) are "normal" cost places to live, and no state tax in Texas  
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3217
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:57 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 18):
The higher you seem to be in terms of pay, the higher the stress levels?

mo' money, mo' problems?  
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
azncsa4qf744er
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:04 pm

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:37 am

Quoting COSPN (Reply 9):
Yes pay is low at UA ...CO pay is Higher one reason the company seems to be dragging its feet..and UA operates HUB at places with Excessive costs of living SFO, ORD, DEN...



UA pay is only lower to CO because of BK in 2001. Prior to 9/11 and BK UA pay scale was higher than CO.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1535
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:07 am

Well lets try to sign some contracts and make it all the same  
 
RyanairGuru
Posts: 6554
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: Payscale.com Ranks Happiest Airlines

Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:58 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 19):
You are right IAD is excessive

Sure, the cost of living in the District is absolutely eye-watering, but don't forget that IAD is some way out. If you come out of the airport and head the other way then you can be in rural Virginia pretty quickly.

Quoting COSPN (Reply 19):
so it hits UA workers much harder than CO workers

Even in "Joysey", the cost of living in the NYC area is pretty high. While the city of Newark is nothing compared to Manhattan, you would still struggle to make ends meet on first year pay.
Worked Hard, Flew Right