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Mortyman
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SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:20 pm

Scandinavian media is today reporting that SAS will at a pressconferance tomorrow, apparently announce the cut of 1000 employes jobs and a 15 % in salary for the remaining. SAS Ground Handling will apparently be sold.

There has been though negotiations with the unions: acccept the cuts or SAS will go bankrupt.

Please note that this is currently not official but only reported in Scandinavian media. There will be a pressconference tomorrow.

http://www.aftenposten.no/okonomi/Da...sier-opp-1000-ansatte-7042479.html

http://e24.no/boers-og-finans/sas-ek...fagforeningen-med-konkurs/20298282

http://www.nrk.no/okonomi/dansk-tv_-...as-sier-opp-1000-ansatte-1.8392386

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article15756797.ab



[Edited 2012-11-11 06:56:50]

[Edited 2012-11-11 06:59:30]
 
sweair
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RE: SK To Cut 1000 Jobs And Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries

Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:27 pm

I do wonder if this is enough, they have had problems for 10 years now, keep pushing that timeline for bankrupsy ahead of them. 3 nations, 40+ unions..SK is a mess of different visions, needs and cultures. In Sweden most blame the danish unions, I don´t know how that is in the other nations.

Its hard enough to feel united in one nation, try 3 different nations.
 
CPHFF
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RE: SK To Cut 1000 Jobs And Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries

Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:34 pm

Mortyman;

You should change headline to :Rumour!

Press Conference at 08.00 (CET) tomorrow.

Also, why are you starting another thread?? SAS, the end is near is currenty open....
Same subject....
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kl911
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RE: Rumor:SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries

Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 2):
Also, why are you starting another thread??

Well, to me personally this is big enough news to warrant its own thread. I would otherwise have missed it.
 
JU068
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:24 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):

Exactly, same here.


Could it be that this was the reason why they have not published their financial report yet? Maybe it is catastrophic so at least when they publish it they could say that they are doing something about it.
 
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downtown273
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:05 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 4):

I think that would made sense.

Will there be reductions in capacity (fewer frequencies or dropping non profitable routes) due to the layoff of 1,000 staff?
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 5):
Will there be reductions in capacity (fewer frequencies or dropping non profitable routes) due to the layoff of 1,000 staff?

It remains to be seen what is said at the pressconference tomorrow. Right now, nothing is official.
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:12 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):

It seems that not everyone in SAS, especially Wikestad has understood this, the Norwegian attitude seems to be that if they fail, the government will bail them out, something which the government are not allowed to do.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 4):

SAS said a couple of weeks ago that they expect a profit for Q3 of this year. However the situation now is that SK are desperately trying to get new loans from banks.

The banks, however are not willing to lend money to SK without the individual governments agreeing to guarantee for the loans, however SK are now talking to the EU to make sure that they can do this in order not to end up like Malev.

This is a messy situation and I am honestly not sure that they can survive this.

Reason:

SK has about NOK 10bn, or about 1.8 bn $ in outstanding retirement benefits debt, they also have employees on very expensive contracts. I do not see any airline willing to take over these things. Most likely they would rather allow SK to go bankrupt and then pick up the remaining pieces and employ people on new contracts. Some people will definitely not approve of this, but to face the cruel facts: Either accept this or face unemployment.

SK has unfortunately been in severe situations for years, but unlike other airlines, they have not been able to recover and perhaps now the time is up.

Sad, but true
 
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Mortyman
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:32 pm

Quoting OSL777FLYER (Reply 7):
the Norwegian attitude seems to be that if they fail, the government will bail them out, something which the government are not allowed to do.

Seems like this is the attitude of our Swedish friends and Danish friends as well
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:07 am

Dagens Industri ( Swedish financepaper ) : EU says yes to emergency loans for SAS

According to Dagens Industri new information on SAS crisis, the EU has given the green light for the governments of Sweden, Denmark and Norway to provide state guarantees to the banks to renew loans at 4, 7 billion.

SAS's future lies in the hands of the unions, according to Dagens Industri.

An unofficial application to provide state guarantees came from the Scandinavian countries to the EU Commission's competition unit last week. According to Dagens Industri new evidence, the parties have reached a settlement in principle a preliminary promise ahead. And the green light has been received by the governments on Sunday.

The EU has apparently agreed to this on the grounds that the Scandinavian governments rarely asks for emergency loans. The EU will proabably demand that more of SAS becomes privately owned.

A formal application will be handed in to the EU at a later date.

Article in Swedish:

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/dage...i-eu-sager-ja-till-nodlan-for-sas/
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:26 am

I have tickets booked in December and January on them from the USA to Denmark and Sweden.... we don't think they will go the way of Malev before then do we?   

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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:55 am

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 10):
I have tickets booked in December and January on them from the USA to Denmark and Sweden.... we don't think they will go the way of Malev before then do we?

I think you can relax. Follow this thread. We should have a clearer picture of what is gonna happen at 08:00 cet today. I don't think that bankruptsy is going to be the result.
 
JU068
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:03 am

I think bankruptcy would be the most stupid outcome, especially after all those millions that were injected into the airline. On top of everything, SAS as a brand should live on because it is a symbol of Scandinavia (no matter what some people might say).
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:48 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 11):
I think you can relax. Follow this thread. We should have a clearer picture of what is gonna happen at 08:00 cet today. I don't think that bankruptsy is going to be the result.

Pure guesswork. SAS situation is serious. How serious is really something we do not know. If banks do not want to extend loans SAS future is in the hands of the taxpayers in Denmark, Norway and Sweden and the EU. This seems to be the case now...
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Someone83
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:44 am

In short:
- Banks agreed upon new financial plan
- New collective personel agreement to be negotiated this week
- Sale of Widerøe
- Sale of SGH (Ground handling)
- More centralized organization
- New pension terms


Press release from SAS regarding the new cost cutting plan

Quote:

SAS launches comprehensive plan to improve profitability and secure long-term financial preparedness - ...

... new union agreements must be signed in the near future

Targeting approximately 3 bn SEK of annual improvement from cost reductions and organizational restructuring and approximately 3 bn SEK increased liquidity from asset sales ~ New 3.5 bn SEK Revolving Credit Facility from Banks and Core Shareholders to secure financial preparedness conditional on signed union agreements and parliamentary approvals ~The Board unanimously supports the plan and recommends all employees to do the same ~ The Board will meet again on Sunday November 18, 2012 to decide if the conditions for the implementation of the plan exist

The 4 Excellence Plan, which was announced in September 2011, is on target to deliver approximately 5 bn SEK in EBT effect. Despite this success, SAS foresees the need for further improvements to secure its long-term competitiveness. In a challenging environment for airlines, SAS must take decisive action to address its cost structure, improve its capital structure on a long-term basis, and take steps to reduce the negative impact on equity in 2013 due to changed pension accounting regulations.

4 Excellence Next Generation to improve profitability
The Board of SAS has approved the 4 Excellence Next Generation (4XNG) plan to address the issues facing SAS. The 4XNG plan will improve EBT by approximately 3 bn SEK on an annualized basis and improve the overall cost flexibility through:

· New union agreements for personnel
· Centralization of administration functions
· Reduction of compensation to market levels
· New pension terms
· Outsourcing of Call Centers and Ground Handling

1.5 bn SEK in improved EBT is expected to be realized in the financial year 2012/13, with most of the remaining annualized benefits realized in the financial year 2013/14. The plan is self-financing and requires no new capital. The restructuring cost and one-off implementation costs will be approximately 1.5bn SEK, whereof 0.9-1.0 bn SEK in financial year 2012, and will be fully funded from expected savings.

New pension terms will mitigate the need for new equity
As a result of the revised IAS19, that will be applied by SAS as of November 2013, the SAS Group's shareholders' equity will be reduced when all unrecognized deviations from estimates and plan amendments will be recognized in full in shareholders' equity. The 4XNG plan will result in a transition, for the majority of the employees, from the current defined benefit plans to defined contribution plans. These changes will mitigate the negative impact on equity by an estimated 2.8 bn SEK, reduce defined benefit obligations by 19 bn SEK (58%) and reduce volatility in future earnings resulting from changes in pension assumptions. These pension changes, together with the other actions announced today, provide SAS with the confidence that it will retain a strong equity position.

Asset Disposal and Financing Plan to increase liquidity
The Plan involves a commitment to complete an asset disposal and financing plan, which totals approximately 3 bn SEK in potential net cash proceeds. The proceeds will improve SAS' internally generated financial preparedness and allow SAS to further reduce its financial leverage. The asset disposal and financing plan includes:

· Widerøe, a subsidiary regional airline in Norway
· Airport realated real estate interests;
· Ground handling; and
· Aircraft engines

In addition, SAS will also actively consider opportunities to realize further value from its financed aircraft portfolio and other assets.

3.5 bn SEK Revolving Credit Facility conditional on signed union agreements and parliamentary approvals
SAS has reached an agreement to increase its existing 3.1 bn SEK revolving credit facility to 3.5 bn SEK and extend the term of the facility to 31 March 2015. SAS's bilateral facilities in the amount of 1.25 bn SEK will be cancelled as these facilities provide limited benefit at a significant financial cost. This new revolving credit facility alongside SAS' cash resources will provide the required financial preparedness while it completes its asset sales and realizes the full benefits from its cost reduction plans.

The new revolving credit facility is being provided by seven current lenders and SAS' core shareholders (The Kingdom of Denmark, the Swedish State, the Kingdom of Norway and KAW) on equal terms. The availability of the new revolving credit facility is subject to final documentation, parliamentary approval where required, and it is conditional on signed union agreements that are a central and integral part of the 4XNG plan.

SAS has initiated discussions with its relevant unions and will initiate a broad communication effort towards its employees to obtain their consent to the changes in the union agreements within a very short time.

Comprehensive plans create a financially strong SAS
The plans announced today are supported by our core shareholders and enable SAS to position itself as a strong, financially self-sufficient airline on a long-term basis. In connection with the approvals of the plans, SAS has set new financial targets.
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:53 am

SAS has received guarantees for loans until march 2015. So the immediate danger of bankruptcy seems to have been removed.
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:07 am

and cue: Jean Pierre Schomburg (CAU) in armored vest and threats to take Danish Cabin Crew on strike!

I think it's great that they are finally centralizing their administration. It remains to be seen if Stockholm is the right location though.

Wideröe is a money machine. Why on earth sell it?
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JU068
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:29 am

Can someone clarify what these exactly mean:

Centralization of administration functions
Reduction of compensation to market levels
 
smbukas
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:49 am

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 16):
Wideröe is a money machine. Why on earth sell it?

It is normal practice in business. If you are selling a money making business you get profits in advance. For example, I think, Wideroe could be sold for 8x-10x yearly EBITs. So if you have a business, which is making 10M$ a year, you can get 100M$ now, instead loosing opportunity for more profits in long term.

So cash is more valuable for SAS now to survive instead of long term assets.
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:07 am

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 16):
I think it's great that they are finally centralizing their administration. It remains to be seen if Stockholm is the right location though.

Oh oh, here we go again. It is discussions like this of political nature that is sinking SAS...
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Someone83
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:11 am

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 16):
It remains to be seen if Stockholm is the right location though.

Consider that the average salary for administrative staff is significant lower in Stockholm, compared to Oslo and Copenhagen, yes

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 16):
Wideröe is a money machine. Why on earth sell it?

Because they need the money, and it's easier to sell something that earns money

Quoting JU068 (Reply 17):
Centralization of administration functions

A lot of SAS' functions are spread out between the different Scandinavian countries

Quoting JU068 (Reply 17):
Reduction of compensation to market levels

Lower wages
 
okobjorn
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:31 am

"Consider that the average salary for administrative staff is significant lower in Stockholm, compared to Oslo and Copenhagen, yes"

The nominal salary is significant lower in Stockholm than in Oslo or Copenhagen, but the social security is 31.42% on top in Sweden and 14% in Norway, whereas Denmark puts approx DKK 8,000 on top. So it is not an unequivocal lower total cost in Stockholm than in Copenhagen...
 
sweair
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:01 pm

Denmark will be the end of SK, as I see Swedes and Norwegians as team players but not the call to arms Danes. The hardest battles of SK has been with the danish unions and I hardly expect them to give up without a huge fight this time either.

Maybe when SK is finished will they get it?
 
CPHFF
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:20 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
Denmark will be the end of SK, as I see Swedes and Norwegians as team players but not the call to arms Danes. The hardest battles of SK has been with the danish unions and I hardly expect them to give up without a huge fight this time either.

They've been jacking up their sallaries by 3-4% every year from the mid 90's to 2007. Last spring they wanted to be "team players" and agreed to a nominal wage cut. Now they "can't sacrifice any more"........ WTF??

The Ariline Business Map has been re-drawn in the past 5 - 8 years, and every one but SAS have adapted.

A SPF representative (Svensk Pilotförening) whent on the Swedish radio this morning and claimed that SAS has more staff per flying aircraft than any other carrier in the world. Wholy S**t!
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CPHFF
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
Denmark will be the end of SK, as I see Swedes and Norwegians as team players but not the call to arms Danes. The hardest battles of SK has been with the danish unions and I hardly expect them to give up without a huge fight this time either.

They've been jacking up their sallaries by 3-4% every year from the mid 90's to 2007. Last spring they wanted to be "team players" and agreed to a nominal wage cut. Now they "can't sacrifice any more"........ WTF??

The Ariline Business Map has been re-drawn in the past 5 - 8 years, and every one but SAS have adapted.

A SPF representative (Svensk Pilotförening) whent on the Swedish radio this morning and claimed that SAS has more staff per flying aircraft than any other carrier in the world. Wholy S**t!
Detroit is bankrupt. Don't forget to thank UAW folks!
 
sweair
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:34 pm

Many people in the western world need to wake up and smell the coffee, we live in a global economy. Your job could be done for 50% of the salary if you are in the wrong field, we sure love to buy the cheap electronics but no one wants to cut their own salary, there is two sides to any coin, most people only see one side, the one that gives you a benefit.

My position moved to India 8 years ago, I have adapted but I also got a wake up call, it´s not the 80´s anymore. Now I do work that is hard to outsource its more local and can´t really be replaced if not be an immigrant willing to work for 50% less and brake all labour rules we have here.

Adapt and survive! It´s a cynical world we live in and as long as we are employees we are no better than slaves really, profit for the owners decides. If I want to be free I have to start my own business and I probably will when I feel brave enough.

Time has caught up with SK, they did not want to adapt to reality, Norwegian has got a lot of flack for their hiring contracts but they seem to survive despite this, they have adapted to the times we live in.
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:39 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
Denmark will be the end of SK, as I see Swedes and Norwegians as team players but not the call to arms Danes

Apparently, The Norwegian Cabin Attendants are the first rejecting the salary cuts. Perhaps you're a bit quick there.

http://ekstrabladet.dk/nyheder/samfund/article1862925.ece
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Someone83
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:47 pm

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 26):
Apparently, The Norwegian Cabin Attendants are the first rejecting the salary cuts. Perhaps you're a bit quick there

I think you are a bit quick here, the article says nothing about the Norwegian Cabin Crew  

Wikestad is the union boss for the ground staff (SGH). And they will not get a reduction in their salary...instead they are being sold to another company. So he will not be negotiationg with SAS in the future!
 
kyrone
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:48 pm

Will SAS be the first legacy to have outsourced staff checking in their passengers at their home country hubs?
 
Kiwirob
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:01 pm

Quoting someone83 (Reply 14):
- Sale of Widerøe
Quoting smbukas (Reply 18):

So cash is more valuable for SAS now to survive instead of long term assets.

Well selling the profitable Radisson hotel chain didn't do them much good so I can't understand why selling profitable Wideroe will work either.
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:57 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
Denmark will be the end of SK, as I see Swedes and Norwegians as team players but not the call to arms Danes. The hardest battles of SK has been with the danish unions and I hardly expect them to give up without a huge fight this time either.

Maybe when SK is finished will they get it?

Yes there is no brotherhood / sisterhood anymore. Everybody is fending for themselves and for their interests. Not for common good of all 3 countries anymore.
 
timboflier215
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:44 pm

Who is the most likely buyer for WF? Do people reckon it will be Norwegian investors, or another airline/ airline grouping?
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:05 pm

Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 31):
Who is the most likely buyer for WF? Do people reckon it will be Norwegian investors, or another airline/ airline grouping?

I have a friend who works for them, looks like a management or staff buyout could be the front runner, there is apparently a lot of interest in the company.
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:23 pm

Quoting kyrone (Reply 28):
Will SAS be the first legacy to have outsourced staff checking in their passengers at their home country hubs?

AY has had Northport which is now RTG (or Swissport??), and Blue1 ISS aviation for quite a while.
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:16 am

Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 31):
Who is the most likely buyer for WF? Do people reckon it will be Norwegian investors, or another airline/ airline grouping?

I have a feeling that selling WF to a private investor - including other airlines - could be a complicated or difficult thing. The reason is that WF is not an ordinary commercial business. WF ops is to considerable extent based on subsidies from the Norwegian government.

It's a good policy and absolutely needed since they want to keep the whole long country populated. They don't want to see 90% of the population move to Oslo and Bergen.

But who wants to invest when a considerable part of future revenue is subject to future decisions by a government?

Maybe it is best that WF is sold to the Norwegian government since in any case the government will have a big influence on its ops and financial conditions.
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:07 am

It was apparently the Norwegian minister of trade and finance that demanded that SAS had to sell Widerøe in order to show their commitment to the economical plan. SAS did'nt really want to sell it. But the Norwegian minister of finance and trade felt that SAS had to execute their possibilities of selling their off some of their own assets in order to stay afloat.
 
Someone83
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:53 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 34):
But who wants to invest when a considerable part of future revenue is subject to future decisions by a government?

It's nothing different that the various bus and ferry companies in Norway running on various governmental and municipal contracts, that are privately owned and sometimes change owners.

And also: About 40% of WFs income is from these operations, the rest are from purely commercial activities
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:13 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 35):
It was apparently the Norwegian minister of trade and finance that demanded that SAS had to sell Widerøe in order to show their commitment to the economical plan.

Trond Giske is a complete tool, it really surprises me that will all the cock-ups he's made in the last few years that he still has a job. The fact that he still has a job shows the utter lack of competent MP's in AP.
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:29 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
Denmark will be the end of SK, as I see Swedes and Norwegians as team players but not the call to arms Danes. The hardest battles of SK has been with the danish unions and I hardly expect them to give up without a huge fight this time either.

It seems like reality will eventually hit the Danes as well. Lufthansa was once interested in SAS, but with the illegal strike action from the Danes, and their refusal to move Intercontinental traffic to ARN scared LH away from buying SAS. Now they do not want them anymore.

The Danish union has stated that they will boycott this deal. The end is near for SAS?

http://www.aftenposten.no/okonomi/Da...-boikotter-SAS-sjefen-7044239.html
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:49 pm

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 33):

Northport is 100% AY owned. RTG is a third party company to whom AY has outsorced arrival services. To Swissport AY has outsorced luggage handling (loading/unloading a/c). Check-in/gate services remain under the handling of Northport, which, at least at the moment is owend by AY.

okAY
 
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:36 pm

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 34):
Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 31):Who is the most likely buyer for WF? Do people reckon it will be Norwegian investors, or another airline/ airline grouping?

I have a feeling that selling WF to a private investor - including other airlines - could be a complicated or difficult thing. The reason is that WF is not an ordinary commercial business. WF ops is to considerable extent based on subsidies from the Norwegian government.


Flybe? - it would sit in the gap between the UK and Finland operations. Compatible fleet and business model.
Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,(..53 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
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HELyes
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:41 pm

Even SAS CEO Rickard Gustafson himself hesitates when asked on Swedish TV if it's safe to buy their flights now... "I can't tell what to do, everyone should form their own opinion". Sounds bad.

In Swedish:

http://www.di.se/artiklar/2012/11/13...agar-inte-rekommendera-biljettkop/
 
LN-KGL
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:05 pm

The flybe half year 2012/13 report that came on 8 November was no happy reading - red ink was used on the bottom line. The net debt increased with £20.3m this six months due to the low level of UK profits and the working capital decreased from £71.8m to £66.0m. flybe themselves concludes in the half year report: "Flybe is currently operating in possibly the most challenging conditions since its creation as a newgeneration regional airline 10 years ago."

My conclusion then is: flybe hasn't got the financial strength to even consider bidding on Widerøe.
 
bjorn14
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:06 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 12):
SAS as a brand should live on because it is a symbol of Scandinavia

Look how that worked out for Sabena, Malev and Swissair.


Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 32):
I have a friend who works for them, looks like a management or staff buyout could be the front runner, there is apparently a lot of interest in the company.
http://www.newsinenglish.no/2012/11/...fers-fly-for-sas-regional-airline/

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 37):
Trond Giske is a complete tool, it really surprises me that will all the cock-ups he's made in the last few years that he still has a job. The fact that he still has a job shows the utter lack of competent MP's in AP.
http://www.newsinenglish.no/2012/11/.../giske-forced-sas-to-sell-wideroe/

I have to agree with you. All those 'scandals' surrounding him he has no clue how business works. Just political pandering and payoffs.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
copenhagenboy
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting oykie (Reply 38):
Lufthansa was once interested in SAS, but with the illegal strike action from the Danes, and their refusal to move Intercontinental traffic to ARN scared LH away from buying SAS

Sorry to say it, but I think that is pure nonsense, it was the economical collapse and the bankruptcy of Lehman Brother, that in the last minute prevented them from signing the agreement.
There was already an agreement!!!

[Edited 2012-11-13 09:36:03]
 
Sandager
Posts: 50
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:13 pm

Quoting oykie (Reply 38):
It seems like reality will eventually hit the Danes as well. Lufthansa was once interested in SAS, but with the illegal strike action from the Danes, and their refusal to move Intercontinental traffic to ARN scared LH away from buying SAS. Now they do not want them anymore.

Illegal strike actions in Denmark happened last time years and years ago. And it seems like you forget that it was LH who couldn't get the financing in place for a deal in late 2008, when all papers pretty much were ready to be signed.
Since then we constantly hear the Swedes and Norwegians whine about the hub in CPH, to a degree that it is just embarrassing. But the fact is that SK has expanded more out of Norway and Sweden than out of CPH. You never hear Dansh crew complain about that. We only hear you guys constant whining going on and on and on and on and on and ......
 
JU068
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:26 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 43):
Look how that worked out for Sabena, Malev and Swissair.

It was not the name that led these airlines into bankruptcy, it was bad management. So re-branding SAS won't do much unless you fix the real problem.
 
Oykie
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:10 am

Quoting copenhagenboy (Reply 44):
Sorry to say it, but I think that is pure nonsense, it was the economical collapse and the bankruptcy of Lehman Brother, that in the last minute prevented them from signing the agreement.
There was already an agreement!!!

You are correct that the Spanair crash and Lehman Brother accident was the main events for LH backing of. But the Danes refusal of signing a new contract with SAS in 2008 did not help the situation. Why is it always the Danes that refuse to see the reality in the same way as the Norwegian and Swedish co-workers? The Danish employees had the highest pay increase for decades in SAS. The Norwegian and Swedish counterparts have not been as greedy. That is why it is unbelievable that the Danish co.workers now refuse to sign this contract. This is after all the final call for SAS.

Quoting Sandager (Reply 45):
llegal strike actions in Denmark happened last time years and years ago. And it seems like you forget that it was LH who couldn't get the financing in place for a deal in late 2008, when all papers pretty much were ready to be signed.
Since then we constantly hear the Swedes and Norwegians whine about the hub in CPH, to a degree that it is just embarrassing. But the fact is that SK has expanded more out of Norway and Sweden than out of CPH. You never hear Dansh crew complain about that. We only hear you guys constant whining going on and on and on and on and on and
LH and SAS had a press conference planned and a date set. The Lehman Brother collapse and the Spanair crash was the most important factor for LH canceling. The Danish worker had their last illegal strike in 2007 that I know of. I am not whining, simply stating facts. The Danish employee that I have met have always been nice, so this is more of a culture thing in SAS. The unions in SAS are not aligned. And the Danish unions could have benefited working on their reputation.

At the end of the day I hope that the workers see that now is not a good time to be difficult and demanding. What is most important? Standing up for your rights while bankrupting your employee (ending up without a job), or saving the company you work for? SAS needs to stay competitive and employees have to understand that they should not be fighting against their employer, but for their employer!

In the American Airlines Robert Crandall is a former CEO that employees have deep respect for. He did reply to a letter from a pilot where he recommended the pilot to not vote against the contract with AA management. His view is just as relevant for SAS pilots not wanting to sign a new contract for SAS.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...-american-airlines-situation.html/

Quote:
The key point is that the favorable outcome we achieved depended on a high level of cooperation and collaboration which was in turn made possible by lots of communication and consultation. It would be naïve to believe that everyone was happy about every decision and about every aspect of the way in which every dispute was resolved. But there was – for many years – a shared conviction that we were doing most of the right things and that the industry leadership we sought would be in everyone’s interest. As a consequence, we found ways to make our flights run on time, to lose fewer bags, to sustain fewer customer complaints and to make more money, which was widely shared by means of a broad based profit sharing plan.

Things began to change in the very late 80’s and early 90’s, and have not been the same since. I retired in 1998 because new initiatives of any type – routes, aircraft, systems, or service approaches – were typically held hostage to individual contractual modifications desired by one group or another and because of increasingly vitriolic personal attacks by one or another of the unions on the property.

Then he continues:

Quote:
If American is to succeed in the years ahead, it must pay wages and benefits, and operate using work rules, which produce labor costs equivalent to or – while American gets itself back on track – lower than those of its major competitors. In the long run, no successful service company can offer compensation and working conditions that are materially different than those of its competitors.


[Edited 2012-11-13 23:11:36]
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
FlyingAY
Posts: 408
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RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:40 am

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 42):
My conclusion then is: flybe hasn't got the financial strength to even consider bidding on Widerøe.

Yet they take interest in the sale:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/1...rway-wideroe-idUKBRE8AD0CP20121114
 
Sandager
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 12:13 am

RE: SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:11 am

Quoting oykie (Reply 47):
LH and SAS had a press conference planned and a date set.

And still LH were ready to take over SAS, with the current conditions. They just couldn't finance the deal. They didn't run away because of illegal strikes, as my Scandinavian neighbours keep mentioning despite these actions dating years back!!! Maybe it is about time the Swedes and the Norwegians realized that we are in 2012, and not 2007 anymore!



Quoting oykie (Reply 47):
At the end of the day I hope that the workers see that now is not a good time to be difficult and demanding.

So do I. All three Scandinavian countries will loose millions and millions of dollars becuase of the lack of required infrastructure we will see if SK ends belly up. There is no other airline that can offer the frequencies and destinations that SK currently offers.

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