eoinnz
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:06 pm

Full story here

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/e...osion/story-e6frg6n6-1226514824688

DISTRESSED passengers told how they survived a mid-air emergency last night when an Emirates A380's engine exploded at 10,000 feet and forced it to turn back for an emergency landing.
About 20 minutes after leaving Sydney, Emirates flight EK413 experienced an "engine fault'' en route to Dubai.

"I saw a flash,'' John Fothergill, 49, from Auckland, said. "I thought it could have been lightening but then we saw flames come out of the engine. The whole interior of the A380 lit up.

[Edited 2012-11-11 12:07:07]

[Edited 2012-11-11 12:10:06]
 
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airportugal310
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:11 pm

Yes..this sounds like a "major" crisis...  http://avherald.com/h?article=458dbb78&opt=0
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kl911
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:31 pm

Lol, 'mid air explosion' ?? You should work for one of the UK tabloids..
 
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Stitch
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:39 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 4):
Lol, 'mid air explosion' ?? You should work for one of the UK tabloids.

I suggest you direct your fury at Leigh van den Broeke and The Australian, since they are the ones responsible for the language.
 
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EPA001
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
I suggest you direct your fury at Leigh van den Broeke and The Australian, since they are the ones responsible for the language.

As always news media search for sensational stories, especially when incidents in aviation are the subject. It was just an engine shutdown. Not good, but it happens lots of times on all types of airliners.
 
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kc135topboom
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:02 pm

o what really happened here? The engine exploded, or it did not. The engine was shut down (by the crew, not an explosion), or it was not. This incident is not the same as the QF A-380 engine incident of a few years ago. That engine was a RR Trent-900, not a GP-7270.
 
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Francoflier
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:06 pm

John Fothergill is:

a. a drama queen
b. planning a lawsuit
c. planning to sell an air disaster movie scenario
d. desperate for attention
e. all of the above
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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EK413
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:08 pm

The media always track down passengers which over react during these situations... Talk about being blown out of proportion!

I'll reserve my comments until further investigated...

BTW, I couldn't find the other post...

EK413

[Edited 2012-11-11 13:25:15]
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DocLightning
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:10 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 6):
As always news media search for sensational stories, especially when incidents in aviation are the subject. It was just an engine shutdown. Not good, but it happens lots of times on all types of airliners.

When it's your airplane and fire is coming out of an engine, it's probably a bit frightening.

There is no published cause of the IFSD. For all we know, it could have been an uncontained failure or a catastrophic failure that was contained. From the description, the entire aircraft shook with the event and there were flames from the nacelle. That suggests that this wasn't a simple IFSD.

Being too quick to dismiss an incident as "sensationalism" is just as bad as that very same sensationalism.

I remember when the QF 744 had the cargo bay explosion that punched a hole in the side of the aircraft and people called it "sensationalism" and just a "simple pressure loss." Actually, it was a major incident and it was just luck that prevented any loss of life. Had some of the shrapnel from that explosion taken a path just a few inches different, it would have gone right through a few bodies before departing the aircraft.

Let's wait until we have some facts before dismissing this as so much sensationalism.
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B777LRF
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:20 pm

What's really strange is that it's the 3rd IFSD EK has suffered in 4 days. One is rare, two an anomoly but three in 4 days? That's very, very strange indeed. Bet anyone who wants any reasonable amount those three incidents had nothing in common though.
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EPA001
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:22 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
Let's wait until we have some facts before dismissing this as so much sensationalism.

You are correct. Maybe I was a bit too quick with my qualification of the incident, but most incidents get blown (way) out of proportion. So I assumed this was the same thing. In time we will know more.  
 
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Francoflier
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:43 pm

Compressor stalls, if they happened, could have given the impression of engine detonations, along with flames shooting out the front and all...
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Eagleboy
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:47 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
o what really happened here? The engine exploded, or it did not.
Quoting EK413 (Reply 9):
The media always track down passengers which over react during these situations... Talk about being blown out of proportion!

From AVHerald report: "........climbing out of Sydney's runway 34L when upon contacting departure the crew declared PAN reporting they needed to shut the #3 engine (GP7270, inboard right hand) down and requested to stop climb at FL110 and continue on planned track until decision was made whether to return or continue, controller indicating the aircraft was needed higher to not leave controlled air space, the aircraft subsequently climbed to FL160 and FL190. The crew subsequently decided to return to Sydney, dumped fuel and landed safely on runway 34L about 90 minutes after departure......"

The fact that the flight crew considered continuing would lead me to guess that it was a relatively benign engine shutdown. (Emphasis on relatively, even routine aviation incidents can be frightening for pax) It could have been an engine flameout, hence the report from pax of 'flames'.


As for Mr.Fothergill....I wonder how many pax were interviewed until the reporter got the quote they were looking for?
 
rfields5421
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:07 pm

This quote is from the article in the original post - not the words of the person originating the thred.

Quoting eoinnz (Thread starter):
DISTRESSED passengers told how they survived a mid-air emergency last night when an Emirates A380's engine exploded at 10,000 feet and forced it to turn back for an emergency landing.

About 20 minutes after leaving Sydney, Emirates flight EK413 experienced an "engine fault'' en route to Dubai.

20 minutes after takeoff, 10,000 ft.

Geez. I knew it was a big plane, but I can climb better than than in a C-182.
 
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EK413
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:12 pm

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 14):

And in other words it's was simply an engine shut down... With the crew considering to continue it certainly wasn't as serious... As for the reporter guaranteed they located the passenger which seemed shaken not stirred...

I guess the aircraft will now ferry off to DXB with nil pax...?

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zkokq
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:21 pm

Seems Sydney air traffic control had a busy night with a virgin Australia flight also having an emergency on board.
 
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EPA001
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:37 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 15):
20 minutes after takeoff, 10,000 ft.

Geez. I knew it was a big plane, but I can climb better than than in a C-182.

Probably ATC did not let them climb out any higher then that altitude. The A380 is almost a skyrocket compared to the B747.  .
 
SimProgrammer
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:42 pm

Anyone know the tail number?
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BNEFlyer
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting SimProgrammer (Reply 17):
Anyone know the tail number?


It was A6-EDB/cn 013
 
Auchmithie
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:44 pm

Quoting BNEFlyer (Reply 18):
Anyone know the tail number?


It was A6-EDB/cn 013

avherald.com and theeksource.com both say it was A6-EDA.

A6-EDB operated the previous day's EK413.
 
Eagleboy
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:48 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 13):
20 minutes after takeoff, 10,000 ft.
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 16):
Probably ATC did not let them climb out any higher then that altitude.

From the AVHerald piece:
"...crew declared PAN reporting they needed to shut the #3 engine (GP7270, inboard right hand) down and requested to stop climb at FL110 and continue on planned track until decision was made whether to return or continue,..."
 
aussie18
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:11 am

Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 19):

It was definetely A6-EDA,Was listening to it on a the scanner and tracking it on flight radar,was rather interesting.
Probably a good thing it happened to land after the curfew as SYD gets quite busy just before the curfew comes into effect.
 
rfields5421
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:14 am

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 16):
Probably ATC did not let them climb out any higher then that altitude.

I was being sarcastic about the media report. The AVHerald article states the PAN was declared upon contacting departure controllers - which would have been well under 20 minutes after takeoff. Probably two or three at most.
 
Spacepope
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:22 am

Bad luck, they had another IFSD on an A388 (A6-EDO) on Nov 7 too.

http://avherald.com/h?article=458d2f36&opt=0

Hopefully two unrelated issues.
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wstakl
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:29 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 6):
John Fothergill is:

a. a drama queen
b. planning a lawsuit
c. planning to sell an air disaster movie scenario
d. desperate for attention
e. all of the above

I hope you understand that not everyone is an aviation geek!? For someone who has little to no knowledge of engine dynamics etc hearing load bangs, shuddering and flames would be very frightening.

[Edited 2012-11-11 16:31:27]
 
AirbusA6
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:37 am

Emirates announce a major tie up with Qantas. A few weeks later they suffer an engine 'blow up', the curse of Qantas strikes again Big grin

[Edited 2012-11-11 16:38:13]
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EK413
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:21 am

I don't think the aircraft is going anywhere soon... The aircraft is parked on the handstand next to The Grand Parade...

EK413 over and out...


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lightsaber
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:44 am

Do we have more information? I'm very curious.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):
Compressor stalls, if they happened, could have given the impression of engine detonations, along with flames shooting out the front and all...

Could be, but a compressor stall at altitude is odd. Or do I not have the timeline correct?

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 12):
The fact that the flight crew considered continuing would lead me to guess that it was a relatively benign engine shutdown.

Agreed.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 23):
Bad luck, they had another IFSD on an A388 (A6-EDO) on Nov 7 too.

Hmmm... That could indicate a problem.

I'm very curious to find out more (e.g,. how old the engine is in terms of flight hours).

Lightsaber
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qf002
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 25):

Emirates announce a major tie up with Qantas.

It's just as well they're now cosy with QF -- they now have access to a big A380 maintenance base here, rather than facing a hostile enemy who wants to see their plane out of the air for as long as possible...
 
RickNRoll
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:55 am

Does QANTAS do any of that maintenance here any more? IIRC, as much as possible has been moved off overseas.

According to another story, it was more a big flash of light, that didn't last long, than an explosion.

[Edited 2012-11-11 17:57:45]
 
RyanairGuru
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:55 am

Quote from John Fothergill in the linked article:

"I was in the same incident in 1988 when I was travelling on Alitalia, (so) it was (a) flash back to what happened (there). It was exactly the same"

Well, I'm glad he is such a genius  

As for the allegations that the crew "panicked", I'll wait until we hear from a more reputable source (or at least have his account corroborated) before questioning the professionalism of the cabin crew. Of course the media would rather run a good story about how the crew "panicked more than the passengers"
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idlewildchild
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:02 am

Not for nothing, if I'm sitting on A-380 and there's fire coming from the engine and I know QF had the A380 incident that was almost catastrophic, I got through some praying and major anxiety until that aircraft is on the ground. I don't care who you are. When you're a passenger and something like this happens, it's only very natural to get anxious. Especially in light of the history of an A-380 having that serious problem. I don't know, at this point, which engines are on the bird and that they're different and that it's nothing. All I know is we're turning around, dumping fuel, going to make an emergency landing and we've lost an engine, after the aircraft shook and lit up the cabin.

It's very easy to be courageous and 'no big deal' from the ground.
 
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:10 am

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 29):
Does QANTAS do any of that maintenance here any more? IIRC, as much as possible has been moved off overseas.

Yes. All line maintenance is done at SYD. It is only D (and maybe C) Checks that have been outsourced.
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sunrisevalley
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:31 am

An indirect question to all this. Is there a central registry that records inflight engine shutdowns and is it's database accessible to all?
 
spacecadet
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:32 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 14):
And in other words it's was simply an engine shut down...

Well, no, not necessarily. Did you read the avherald report? (Which itself is certainly not complete.)

was climbing out of Sydney's runway 34L when upon contacting departure the crew declared PAN reporting they needed to shut the #3 engine

First, a "simple engine shutdown" is generally not a Pan-Pan level event. Second, they reported they "needed" to shut the engine down - presumably because it was misbehaving in some way. It wasn't just that it was giving them a low oil pressure indication or something and they decided to shut it down as a precaution. They needed to.

Quote:
With the crew considering to continue it certainly wasn't as serious...

The flipside of that is that after considering it, they ended up deciding that they needed to return to the airport. A "simple engine shutdown" may not have required them to return to the departure airport. Something happened that caused the flight crew to think about it and decide that they had to return.

I've lived through a situation that sounds similar to this, actually - I was on a DC-10 in 1980 that had an engine flame out shortly after takeoff. Given the time period, it was very scary - all I could think about as the engine was spewing flames on takeoff was AA 191. The FAA report later listed it as a simple compressor stall, however the plane was grounded for a week and the engine was changed, so clearly that engine was toast and the full story of what happened to it was never actually made public (this was pre-internet).

Someone else earlier in the thread suggested the flames could have been caused by a compressor stall, and I don't disagree, however compressor stalls don't just happen for no reason. Something happened to this engine, and we just don't know what yet.
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qf002
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:35 am

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 29):
Does QANTAS do any of that maintenance here any more? IIRC, as much as possible has been moved off overseas.
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 32):
Yes. All line maintenance is done at SYD. It is only D (and maybe C) Checks that have been outsourced.

   They do everything except D checks, which are done at FRA by LH.

That said, the QF engineers probably aren't too familiar with the GP7200.
 
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BoeingVista
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:40 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):

Hmmm... That could indicate a problem.

They also had a 777 engine IFSD near Mumbai this week and an A330 engine detonation in Zambia last week...

So thats 4 engine issues in 10 days on a nice mix of engines!

2x GP7200
1x GE90
1x T700
BV
 
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skygirl1990
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:03 am

I must say I rather enjoy Emirates summation of the incident - "an engine fault"

  
 
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zeke
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:22 am

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 31):
Not for nothing, if I'm sitting on A-380 and there's fire coming from the engine and I know QF had the A380 incident that was almost catastrophic, I got through some praying and major anxiety until that aircraft is on the ground.

Engines are supposed to have a fire in them, that is how they "burn" fuel. Most people do not realize that fire extinguishes in aircraft engines do not go into the engines where the fire supposed to be, they go around the case where fire is not supposed to be. To put the internal fire out, the fuel flow is turned off, normally a number of ways to do this (HP and LP fuel shutoff valves).

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 34):

First, a "simple engine shutdown" is generally not a Pan-Pan level event.

Not in a quad, however a pan can also mean they are unable to comply with an ATC clearance for example the climb gradient requirements on the 34L SID, those gradients are in place to reduce noise over the residents below. In a twin, and engine shutdown is either a maday or pan due to the loss of systems.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 34):
It wasn't just that it was giving them a low oil pressure indication or something and they decided to shut it down as a precaution. They needed to.

Says who ?

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 34):

The flipside of that is that after considering it, they ended up deciding that they needed to return to the airport. A "simple engine shutdown" may not have required them to return to the departure airport. Something happened that caused the flight crew to think about it and decide that they had to return.

Yep like EK operate a 777 freighter to SYD and they can bring and engine and it was commercially the most viable solution. The crew probably phoned ops and asked them what they preferred, and their engineering staff probably were able to log onto the aircraft and have a look at the engines stats while in flight.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 34):
Something happened to this engine, and we just don't know what yet.

About the most accurate thing on this thread.

Quoting skygirl1990 (Reply 37):
I must say I rather enjoy Emirates summation of the incident - "an engine fault"

Which is exactly as it could have been, it could have been a simple FADEC fault asking the crew to shut the engine down, this takes the power off the FADEC and resets it.
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imiakhtar
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:23 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 35):
They do everything except D checks, which are done at FRA by LH.


Since the new hangars opened earlier this year, I believe QF A380 C checks will take place at the LH Technik station in MNL. The A380s have been sent there recently for cabin reconfiguration and wing rib repairs. QF also uses it for A330 maintenance.

The RR engines are overhauled separately in SIN.
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lightsaber
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:42 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 36):
So thats 4 engine issues in 10 days on a nice mix of engines!

2x GP7200
1x GE90
1x T700

Huh... That is far too many to be a coincidence. Is it maintenance, metal in DXB's jet fuel, or ???. It is time to throw together a tiger team and figure out what is going on.

Quoting skygirl1990 (Reply 37):
I must say I rather enjoy Emirates summation of the incident - "an engine fault"

Hey, we designed a fuel scheme on an engine that always threw a fireball out the front of the engine. We called it a 'feature' (proof of light, it only happened when the engine started). For some reason management made engineering remove that feature before service entry (it was a timing error in the fuel ramp matrix)...

I'm going to wait to see what the issue is. Every A380 issue is blown out of proportion. Like the plane.  

Lightsaber
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qf002
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:48 am

Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 39):
Since the new hangars opened earlier this year, I believe QF A380 C checks will take place at the LH Technik station in MNL. The A380s have been sent there recently for cabin reconfiguration and wing rib repairs.

Sorry, my bad. I had it in my head that none of the aircraft have gone anywhere for maintenance except FRA, and it didn't occur to me that they'd be doing C checks in MNL at the same time as the reconfiguration work...
 
VC10er
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:07 am

I who know nothing would have assumed that one of 4 engines would have created too much drag for a whole flight to Dubai?
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EK413
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RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD

Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:32 am

There is a EK Skycargo freighter heading to Sydney tonight more than likely with a replacement power plant onboard...

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
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zkokq
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RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD

Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:39 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 43):

whats the flight number on the cargo flight?
 
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EPA001
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RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD

Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:47 am

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 31):
Not for nothing, if I'm sitting on A-380 and there's fire coming from the engine and I know QF had the A380 incident that was almost catastrophic, I got through some praying and major anxiety until that aircraft is on the ground. I don't care who you are.

Praying wont help there. You have to rely on the crew and their skills and professionalism. But anyway, EK uses completely different engines on their A380's then QF does. So it is impossible these incidents are related. Or that they have anything to do with the A380 by itself. For all we know now it could be an engine malfunction which can happen on every airliner in the world. And which frequently happens all around the world.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD

Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:15 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 30):
As for the allegations that the crew "panicked", I'll wait until we hear from a more reputable source (or at least have his account corroborated) before questioning the professionalism of the cabin crew. Of course the media would rather run a good story about how the crew "panicked more than the passengers"

I always smile when I hear pax comments about cabin crew panicking. I have seen firsthand how pax thought that crew rapidly preparing a cabin for a precautionary landing scenario after an engine failure became "panic" in pax eyes.
 
maxter
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RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD

Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:15 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 36):
So thats 4 engine issues in 10 days on a nice mix of engines!

2x GP7200
1x GE90
1x T700

Any idea what a reasonable expectation would be for MTBF's for engines overall in a fleet their size?
maxter
 
idlewildchild
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RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD

Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:43 am

Seems folks are having a hard time understanding the simplicity of my position. When something goes wrong with an engine on an airplane, for the non-professional aviation person, or, for over 95% of those on board, it creates serious anxiety.

It's about being human. That human condition translates to a PR issue. That PR issue impacts one's brand. Brands are often impacted by human emotion more than facts. The point I am trying to make is that for the non-professional traveller to read the A-380 has had a series of issues, whatever the root or reality, is sowing a major branding problem for EK. it already hurt QFs brand.

Technical knowledge won't make folks any less anxious. What will work are engines that don't lead to PR challenges!
 
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EK413
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RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD

Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:47 am

Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 44):

Quoting EK413 (Reply 43):

whats the flight number on the cargo flight?

The flight number was UAE9920 and arrived from SIN at 18:35...

EK413

[Edited 2012-11-12 03:48:25]
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