EWRkid1990
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No More Q400's For UA?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:26 pm

Recently looking at several booking options that originate/arrive at EWR, I noticed that the Q400 has been replaced on several routes I have flown the Q400 on before, like EWR-PIT, EWR-BUF, EWR-ALB. I know this is only a small sampling of the routes it flew out of EWR, but it looks like they've been removed from the EWR schedule. Are the Q400's flying out of another UA hub, or are they gone altogether, because United still lists the aircraft on its fleet page.

Cheers!
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jetmatt777
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:27 pm

Republic (YX) is flying them out of DEN.

Hate em, hate em, hate em.
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Caspian27
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:44 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 1):
Republic (YX) is flying them out of DEN.

Hate em, hate em, hate em.

While I'm not exactly a fan of who is operating them, can you expound a bit on why you dislike them?
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RiverCityFlyer
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:52 pm

Republic has them in DEN, and is forming an operation on the east coast right now. Other aircraft are just replacing the Q400 as the flying transitions from Colgan to Republic.
 
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yyz717
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:06 am

What was the rationale for moving the Q400 fleet west from EWR?

It seemed to just cause a re-influx of more E145's into EWR, which is the last thing that congested airport needed.

For example, the 8x daily EWR-YYZ on the Q400 were replaced by 10x daily E145. I doubt the all-up costs of this daily E145 route is more cost effective.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
EWRkid1990
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:16 am

So Q400's are coming back to EWR soon? I love them if you sit aft of the engine, WAY less noisy. The flights I've had with them were comfortable, quiet (again, sit BEHIND the prop), and felt less cramped than an E145, even though its 2-2 seating. The ceilings seemed higher also, and having bins on both sides of the isle is definitely a plus.
 
ANITIX87
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:47 am

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 1):

Hate em, hate em, hate em.

Funny, the only regional jet I like more than the Q400 is the ERJ-135/145. I've loved the Q400 (I hate the Q200, don't get me wrong) since my first flight in one three years ago. Just phenomenal.

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spiritair97
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:19 am

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 7):

I assume you mean the only regional AIRCRAFT you like better than the Q400?  

BTW, looking at the schedules for this spring, Republic is operating them on the IAD-PVD route again!

I am ecstatic to see them coming back! Love them! The Q1/200, while only having flown on my first one very recently, are fun little puddle-jumpers! The shaking and rattling makes the flight more interesting!  
 
Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:36 am

From what I can see in our schedule data at ch-aviation, they plan to resume EWR operations from January 2, 2013 operating to ALB, BWI, BOS, BUF, BTV, PIT, PWM, RDU, ROC, IAD.

Does anyone have an updated status of their fleet, we currently have the following as flying in our database. Is that list correct or do we have too many as I assume:
N188WQ
N191WQ
N196WQ
N199WQ
N202WQ
N203WQ
N208WQ
N209WQ
N214WQ
N323NG
N328NG
N332NG
N336NG
N339NG
N342NG
N346NG
N34NG
N356NG
N380NG
N502LX
N507LX
N508LX
N510LX

Are the following still parked or already operating?:
N187WQ
N190WQ
N195WQ
N204WQ
N213WQ
N333NG
N338NG
N341NG
N345NG

[Edited 2012-11-11 18:38:28]
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jetmatt777
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:56 am

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 3):
While I'm not exactly a fan of who is operating them, can you expound a bit on why you dislike them?

From a ramp agent perspective:

Extremely unreliable and maintenance sensitive aircraft, we have at least one flight a day that is delayed 4+ hours for maintenance. "A Day" If it doesn't delay it cancels.

They are a pain in the neck to load and unload because of the shelf in the aft bin. On landing, all the bags that are stacked on the shelf fall forward onto the floor section (because of the braking action) of the bin and block the doorway and get stuck in the bin webbing.

On overnighters you have to secure the propellers with ropes and ties so they don't windmill on the ramp.

You have to hand pump the brakes before dead towing. This is done with a pole that is inserted into a hand pump in the gear well of the right main gear. Takes some pumping to get the brake system up to pressure.

The aft bin door is also temperamental and difficult to shut sometimes. And having to raise the door and then secure the door from closing on you with a large pole adds more time and complexity to a "quick turn."

The lavatory dump system is also fun, it's not uncommon to not get it right and have lavatory waste on the ramp. Luckily I haven't had that problem yet (knock on wood), but have seen many very experienced agents mess it up and put turds on the ramp. Other aircraft it's a very easy task and usually no problem.

From a passenger perspective:

They are noisy and the vibrations can drive you insane, especially the closer to the engines you are. The forward door is very small and you have to duck quite a bit on entering.

All around, I do not like this aircraft.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
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United_fan
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:12 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 1):
Republic (YX) is flying them out of DEN.

So,who is going to fly them out of EWR ? Colgan did until they closed .
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jetmatt777
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 10):
So,who is going to fly them out of EWR ? Colgan did until they closed .

Republic is the sole operator of the Q400 for UA and they are being exclusively flown out of DEN. No EWR Q400's.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
EWRkid1990
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:15 pm

Also, are there plans for United to bring its CRJ's to EWR then? And wouldn't the lack of Q400's free up gate space for mainline jets in the C2 concourse, where the -400's seem to always park?
 
Rdh3e
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:20 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 9):
All around, I do not like this aircraft.

No Kidding.

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 9):
From a passenger perspective:

I disagree with everything you just wrote. The Q is a pretty quiet aircraft, and I do not notice any real vibrations that would "drive me insane". Most people seem to agree with me.
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:24 pm

Quoting EWRkid1990 (Reply 12):
wouldn't the lack of Q400's free up gate space for mainline jets in the C2 concourse, where the -400's seem to always park?

As said above they are coming back, and looking at summer schedules (which are, admittedly, a place holder) they seem to be using them out of EWR and IAD.

Assuming that they don't come back, then it must be inevitable that there will be more big RJs in EWR. I think the first step to filling in those C gates would be to move the ERJ-170s over from A1, allowing them to consolidate their A operations and close the A1 United Club.

Unfortunately the A2 zoo is here to stay since there is simply no way to shoehorn those ERJs into C  
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Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:24 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 11):
Republic is the sole operator of the Q400 for UA and they are being exclusively flown out of DEN. No EWR Q400's.

Republic will fly them from EWR from next year.

From what I can see the only regional operators currently at EWR are Commutair with Dash 8-200s and Dash 8-300s, Expressjet with ERJ-145s and Shuttle America with EMB-170s. I do not see any CRJs scheduled today or for any future dates.
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jetmatt777
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:29 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 13):
I disagree with everything you just wrote. The Q is a pretty quiet aircraft, and I do not notice any real vibrations that would "drive me insane". Most people seem to agree with me.

On short flights they are no problem, but United is deploying these aircraft on 1.5-2 hour flights. 2 hours on any prop is a non-starter for me.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 16):
2 hours on any prop is a non-starter for me.

I can only talk for myself, but I don't have any problem with the Q. It does rattle a bit when it starts up, and takeoffs can be a bit noisy, but during cruise I've never had a problem with noise or vibration.

My longest Q flight was CBR-BNE, which was blocked at 2:20. Other than being a pain since the 737 block time is 1:50, i didn't bother me at all.

I am, however, a much bigger ATR fan than Q. the 72-500s are a great little aircraft. They are (I feel) more spacious and quieter.
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mcg
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:36 pm

For what it's worth I recently had a trip from DEN that was Q400's both ways. The outbound was delayed a couple of hours by unspecified mechanical issues. The return flight was canceled. When I asked the customer service agent what was the reason for the cancellation she said 'well we've got this aircraft called a Q400 and it presents us with ongoing reliability issues'.

I like riding in the aircraft. It's a little loud but I like the lower cruise altitude for looking out the window. My wife said the airplane on the outbound leg was 'real nice', which is a good measure of how typical passengers would perceive it.
 
spiritair97
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:44 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 13):
Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 16):

For what it's worth, I have flown them on the EWR-MYR route, which clocks in at between 1:20-1:45, a few times and I didn't notice any of what you mentioned. It was the same as a CRJ-900, except for the higher noise pitch, but that's it.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:36 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 16):
On short flights they are no problem, but United is deploying these aircraft on 1.5-2 hour flights. 2 hours on any prop is a non-starter for me.

The longest flight UA does on the Q currently is DENMCI, which is a maintenance rotation for the Republic, it's the only flight over 2 hours currently in the schedule.

UA has used the Q's on 14 markets in Q4, 6 of which are under 1.5hrs, 7 between 1.5-2 hrs, and 1 (noted above) over 2 hours (by less than 5 minutes).

It appears there is a sweet spot with this aircraft that it makes sense to target this type of segment.
 
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:40 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 20):
It appears there is a sweet spot with this aircraft that it makes sense to target this type of segment.

Yes but how much are the rebookings and loss of reputation costing the airline when everyday you are spending money to rebook passengers at a much higher cost on Frontier, Delta, and American?

The dispatch reliability of this aircraft is terrible. Republic acknowledges it and is agreeing to sub in E170's on routes if the maintenance delay is in excess of 4 hours (which is becoming extremely common, almost daily is a Q400 flight delayed more than 4 hours at my station).
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:50 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 17):
It does rattle a bit when it starts up, and takeoffs can be a bit noisy, but during cruise I've never had a problem with noise or vibration.

I agree that it's not "bad," but I do think it's different from a jet. Particularly in front of the wing, the sound is a lot different - I'd say lower-pitched. That might bother some people.
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Rdh3e
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:52 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 21):
The dispatch reliability of this aircraft is terrible.

It's not the just aircraft, it's the operator as well.
 
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:55 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 23):
It's not the just aircraft, it's the operator as well.

We had similar issues with Colgan Air. Which ironically these are literally the exact same aircraft, just being operated by Republic now. This aircraft is just a maintenance hog.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
Rdh3e
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 24):
We had similar issues with Colgan Air. Which ironically these are literally the exact same aircraft, just being operated by Republic now. This aircraft is just a maintenance hog.

Check the stats, maintenance accounts for less than 1/4 of the delays and cancels. Not the case when Colgan was operating the aircraft. Two entirely different sets of problems.
 
PVD757
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:04 pm

PVD-IAD will see Q400s some time over the next couple of months.
 
thegreatchecko
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:56 pm

Funny how everyone bags the Q, but Horizon and Porter seem to keep them in the air and on time just fine. I think the blame should go to RAH for trying to run the operation cheap and MEL'ing it to death, so when it breaks, it breaks. Yes, it does require some TLC (it's a flying computer), but when you get it right, the plane has great economics and performance.

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jetmatt777
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RE: No More Q400's For UA?

Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:23 am

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 25):
Check the stats, maintenance accounts for less than 1/4 of the delays and cancels. Not the case when Colgan was operating the aircraft. Two entirely different sets of problems.

It may account for 25% of the delays and cancels, but compared to the rest of the operation, the Q400 as a whole has terrible on time performance.

Whether that's a YX problem or problem with the Q400, it's still an unreliable operation which is hurting our brand's integrity (what's left of it anyway). RAH doesn't seem to have as many problems with on-time with their other aircraft so I suspect these Q's aren't exactly innocent in this matter. Routine 4+ hour delays are simply unacceptable. Every now and then is not a problem because airplanes do break, but every single day working around these delays is unacceptable.

For example, so far right now Republic's Q400 operation has 7 active flights delayed longer than 15 minutes. For a total of 1,130 minutes delayed. Which is an average of 161.4 minutes delayed for each delayed flight, or an average of 2.69 hours a flight. The smallest delay is 88 minutes the largest delay is 323 minutes.

The system average right now for delayed flights is 81 minutes, with the majority being 16-30 minutes.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy