User avatar
STT757
Topic Author
Posts: 13173
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:28 pm

Quote:
A senior member of United Airlines has said he “love to have” Virgin Atlantic join the Star Alliance amid speculation that the unaligned UK carrier was looking to join the group.

Obviously VS in Star would be very competitive with BA and Oneworld. VS can get in on the AC/UA/LH Trans-Atlantic joint venture.

With regards to the 787:

Quote:
United will “look very closely” at emerging cities in the BRIC nations when it comes to new destinations for its new B787 Dreamliners, a senior member of United has stated.

Schumacher would not be drawn on where the aircraft would be deployed but said it would lead to a host of new destinations in the United network.
http://www.routes-news.com/news/item...e%E2%80%99-virgin-in-star-alliance

Previously, before the merger, CO management had mentioned Bangalore, Hyderabad and Chennai as possible new 787 destinations. As for other "BRIC" destinations I would speculate GIG (via EWR), DME (via IAD, IAH, ORD or EWR), HKG (via LAX) and CAN (via SFO).
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
spiritair97
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:28 pm

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:30 pm

I think this would be a very strategic move for VS. I'm also guessing that this would reinstate the VS/UA codeshare that ended last year?
 
neveragain
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:59 pm

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:40 pm

Quoting STT757 (Thread starter):
Obviously VS in Star would be very competitive with BA and Oneworld.

Not really.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 1):
I think this would be a very strategic move for VS.

I'd hope VS would make such a "move" with a strategy in mind.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:43 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 1):
I think this would be a very strategic move for VS. I'm also guessing that this would reinstate the VS/UA codeshare that ended last year?

I beleive both sides would benefit greatly from such a tie up. It brings JFK into the mix for Star and fills that hole nicely. It gives Star customers an hub option in London filling that hole nicely for Star. All around good deal.
 
User avatar
STT757
Topic Author
Posts: 13173
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:09 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 2):
Not really.

Let me rephrase,

VS in Star, and participating in the Trans-Atlantic Joint Venture, would be more competitive than VS joining Skyteam or continuing to go it alone.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 2731
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:39 pm

Quoting STT757 (Thread starter):
DME (via IAD, IAH, ORD or EWR)

They simply do not have the aircraft to expand to any more destinations right now. Not to mention they JUST cut IAD-DME this year, I don't think they'd just dip right back in.
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 3):
I beleive both sides would benefit greatly from such a tie up. It brings JFK into the mix for Star and fills that hole nicely. It gives Star customers an hub option in London filling that hole nicely for Star. All around good deal.

If this is a true, it would greatly benefit Star. Far more valuable than bmi.

Now, if only Star could steal CX, Jet, and VAus, then their global network (excluding deep South America) would be very complete.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:51 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 2):
Not really.

Why not? It's pretty close coverage.

LHR>JFK
DL 3x
VS 4x
BA/AA 10x


EWR>JFK
VS 2x
UA 5x
BA 3x


By alliance from NYC:
Sky 3x
Star/VS 11x
OW: 13x
 
neveragain
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:59 pm

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:55 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
VS in Star, and participating in the Trans-Atlantic Joint Venture, would be more competitive than VS joining Skyteam or continuing to go it alone.

Trust me, I'm no fan of SkyTeam, but what makes the Star Alliance JV more attractive than the SkyTeam JV?

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 7):
Why not? It's pretty close coverage.

Do the calculation for the London side and you'll get the idea.
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2106
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:00 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
would be more competitive than VS joining Skyteam

I would have thought ST would have loved to have seen VS join them. With UA and VS combined in the NYC market, ST, will go to a very distant third although I will beleive all this when indeed it happens if ever.

I assume that is VS did joing *A they might retreat from ORD and IAD where they are quite weak, leave that to UA and open up other routes?

I am sure that if SRB knows that *A would like them in and UA has played their cards he will be keen to do a deal ASAP.

Interesting times.
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:11 pm

OK, I'll eat crow on this one.
Live life to the fullest.
 
anstar
Posts: 2861
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 9):
I assume that is VS did joing *A they might retreat from ORD and IAD where they are quite weak, leave that to UA and open up other routes?

I doubt they would pull out of IAD as it is a good market for VS with point to point traffic and they would then feed into the IAD hub. They used to do 2 x daily in the summer nefore the recession. Likewise with ORD, it would probably allow that service to return to a year round operation.
 
GCT64
Posts: 1256
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:34 pm

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:55 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 11):
I doubt they would pull out of IAD as it is a good market for VS with point to point traffic and they would then feed into the IAD hub. They used to do 2 x daily in the summer nefore the recession. Likewise with ORD, it would probably allow that service to return to a year round operation.

IF they join / are allowed to join the AC/UA/LH Trans-Atlantic joint venture, then the profits on the routes are shared and the flights become metal neutral. In this case logic says it might make sense, for efficiency, to not fly VS to IAD but leave that destination entirely to UA. Then, presumably, it depends how much the JV thinks the loss of VS (and adding capacity on UA) will drive pax away from the JV and to someone else (presumably BA). VS does have some considerable cachet with the general public (esp. in the UK) and there is a danger that replacing a VS flight with a UA flight will result in a net loss of pax (even worse for VS/UA, a net gain by BA).

Parochially, as a FF on UA and no status on VS (despite living near LHR), I'm pro VS joining Star and joining the JV (and think it makes sense, as I have said before). Most usefully for me it would give me a Star option for non-stop flights on LHR-BOS-LHR  
Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,(..53 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
spiritair97
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:28 pm

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 8):

A few things:


1. Singapore Airlines owns 49% of VS.
2. If you look at some of their codeshare partners, the majority of them are *A members (CA, NZ, NH, SK, SA, SQ, Jet Airways (not technically, but still almost a member))
3. DL and VS recently (within the last year or so) terminated it's codeshare with VS.
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 12):
In this case logic says it might make sense, for efficiency, to not fly VS to IAD but leave that destination entirely to UA.

Not necessarily -- it depends on the traffic mix, yields, and scheduling needs. There are scenarios where a UA flight makes more sense (such as the daytime 763 departure), and other instances where a VS 744 or 346, operating alone or alongside a UA flight is more practical (such as for a prime bank hub-to-hub 6pm-ish departure/7am-ish arrival).
Live life to the fullest.
 
neveragain
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:59 pm

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:12 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 13):
DL and VS recently (within the last year or so) terminated it's codeshare with VS.

As did CO.
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2144
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting STT757 (Thread starter):
Previously, before the merger, CO management had mentioned Bangalore, Hyderabad and Chennai as possible new 787 destinations. As for other "BRIC" destinations I would speculate GIG (via EWR), DME (via IAD, IAH, ORD or EWR), HKG (via LAX) and CAN (via SFO).

I think Smisek was saying a few weeks back that United is looking to deploy the 787s on routes to secondary Chinese cities (i.e. Chengdu, Chongqing, Shenyang, Xi'an, Wuhan, etc). This is a space several of the European/Middle Eastern carriers have moved into recently, and United sees solid potential with the new aircraft.

I don't see cities in Russia nor India as high on the 787 list.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
kyrone
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:56 pm

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:36 pm

I think ORD would be year round, they would get great transfer feed from UA
 
sqsfo
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:15 pm

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:35 pm

I know that business traffic to secondary cities in China is increasing. However,( and I ask this because I really do not know) will a 787 on those routes be feasible? I was under the presumption that flights out of secondary Chinese cities are cargo heavy, and with the 787 limited cargo space, how successful will these routes be?
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2144
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation

Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:06 pm

Quoting SQSFO (Reply 18):

I know that business traffic to secondary cities in China is increasing. However,( and I ask this because I really do not know) will a 787 on those routes be feasible? I was under the presumption that flights out of secondary Chinese cities are cargo heavy, and with the 787 limited cargo space, how successful will these routes be?

I think the focus (right now) is less about freight and more about gaining entry to these markets. These cities still boast populations well into the millions, and there is significant demand for travel, albeit on a less-than-daily basis, to US cities. Noticeably, European carriers such as AY, AF, KL and LH have expanded into this space on a 3-4x weekly flights in recent years and they've stuck.

UA has an advantage here with the advent of the 787s since these markets are well-suited for a long-range, but medium-capacity, aircraft; essentially, the "long-thin" routes. To aid these route developments, Star member CA has a base at Chengdu, and soon-to-be Star member Shenzhen Airlines has focus cities at Chongqing and Xi'an, a midst a few smaller partner carriers in inland China, so those will add in smaller contributions as well.

Meanwhile, Chinese carriers are intent on expanding in the US, but allegedly only from their major hubs (i.e. PEK, PVG and CAN), so UA is poised to be completely first-mover on these routes. UA will also be aided by domestic feed, as well as from Latin America, to fill these flights.

So, you have to give United credit for out-of the-box thinking on this one. Of course, usual challenges apply, including network restrictions and Visa limitations, etc.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: American 767, AT72, Bing [Bot], CRJ900, flyboy80, jpetekyxmd80, KarelXWB, lakeeffect, LLA001, msycajun, Polot, rg828, sassiciai, StTim, TUGMASTER, ty97, YYJTurk and 299 guests