RJ_Delta
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LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:29 pm

LAN Airlines will begin the retirement of its A340-300s fleet in 2013. According with the latest LATAM Airlines fleet plan (2013-2015), the company will retire A340-300 leaving only to aircraft for SCL-AKL-SYD route.

From the next year, the B787s will operate from the next year routes to SCL-EZE-SCL, SCL-LIM-LAX, SCL-LAX and SCL-MAD-FRA.

Also, in 2013 the company will complete the retirement of the entire A318 fleet.

In Brazil, TAM will reduce the number of its A330s, from 20 to 16 in 2013 and to 13 in 2014.

http://envivodesdescl.blogspot.com/2...rlines-presenta-plan-de-flota.html

Best Regards,
 
yellowtail
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting RJ_Delta (Thread starter):
LAN Airlines will begin the retirement of its A340-300s fleet in 2013. According with the latest LATAM Airlines fleet plan (2013-2015), the company will retire A340-300 leaving only to aircraft for SCL-AKL-SYD route.

How long before the 78s are certified to do SKL-AKL-SYD?
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
spiritair97
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:50 pm

I wonder why they are reducing the a332 fleet? Seems they've been a pretty important part of their fleet.
 
something
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:50 pm

Quoting RJ_Delta (Thread starter):
In Brazil, TAM will reduce the number of its A330s, from 20 to 16 in 2013 and to 13 in 2014

They just recently postponed the 763 retirement because they need the lift. What will those A330s be replaced by and by when?
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
RJ_Delta
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 1):

How long before the 78s are certified to do SKL-AKL-SYD?

At this moment there is no news about the certification to do SCL-AKL-SYD with the B787-8 due to a couple of inconvenience with the engines of the first aircraft. So its probably that the Australian service remains with A340 until the arrival of the B787-9.

Best Regards,
 
RJ_Delta
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting something (Reply 3):
They just recently postponed the 763 retirement because they need the lift. What will those A330s be replaced by and by when?

Probably JJ will compensate the retirement of some A330s with their new B77Ws.

Regards,
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:10 pm

Quoting RJ_Delta (Thread starter):
Also, in 2013 the company will complete the retirement of the entire A318 fleet.

Also next year, LAN will begin to receive the A-321s. It's interesting to note that LAN Colombia will continue to operate the Dash 8-200s up to 2015; thus reinforcing LAN Colombia's commitment to regional operations with-in the Colombian domestic market.

According to the fleet plan by 2015, LATAM will operate 96 widebody a/c:
39 B-767-300ER
16 B-787
12 B-77W
13 A-332
12 B-767-300F
4 B-777F

Saludos,
 
RJ_Delta
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:02 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 6):
Also next year, LAN will begin to receive the A-321s. It's interesting to note that LAN Colombia will continue to operate the Dash 8-200s up to 2015; thus reinforcing LAN Colombia's commitment to regional operations with-in the Colombian domestic market.

Today there are 6 aircraft in LATAM Airlines without use: 2 A340-500 ex TAM and 4 DashQ-400 in LAN Colombia. According with some info, the 4 Dash 8Q-400 wil be sold to other operator in 1Q 2013.

For the next year the fleet will be:

53 A319
162 A320
10 A321
16 A332
2 A343
6 B73G
43 B763
10 B77W
5 B788
9 DH8-2
4 DH8-4

Best Regards,
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:31 pm

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 7):
43 B763

Just to clarify, at the end of 2012 LAN will have 39 B-767-300ERs in the fleet with 4 additional B-767-300ERs joining the fleet during next year.

Saludos,
 
RJ_Delta
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:12 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 8):

Just to clarify, at the end of 2012 LAN will have 39 B-767-300ERs in the fleet with 4 additional B-767-300ERs joining the fleet during next year.

41 by the end of the year (38 LAN's B763s plus 3 TAM's B763s).

Best Regards,
 
avion660
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting RJ_Delta (Thread starter):
LAN Airlines will begin the retirement of its A340-300s fleet in 2013. According with the latest LATAM Airlines fleet plan (2013-2015), the company will retire A340-300 leaving only to aircraft for SCL-AKL-SYD route.

2 aircraft to serve that route?

Shame, comfy plane for passenger, nice to look at too.
 
C010T3
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:51 pm

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 5):
Probably JJ will compensate the retirement of some A330s with their new B77Ws.

It will not be enough. There is still something unsaid about TAM's fleet. The rumour was that the 4 332 would have their leases renewed.
 
photoshooter
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:13 pm

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 7):
For the next year the fleet will be:

53 A319
162 A320
10 A321
16 A332
2 A343
6 B73G
43 B763
10 B77W
5 B788
9 DH8-2
4 DH8-4

That sure is an interesting fleet! Sad to see the A340 leaving on MAD-FRA... Always thought that would have been my first time on an A340.
'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - Winston Churchill
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 9):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 8):

Just to clarify, at the end of 2012 LAN will have 39 B-767-300ERs in the fleet with 4 additional B-767-300ERs joining the fleet during next year.

41 by the end of the year (38 LAN's B763s plus 3 TAM's B763s).

With TAM retiring 3 B763s early next year and LAN receiving 8 B763s throughout next year the number of B763s in LAN's fleet during 2013 will be 43, (LA currently has 33 B763s and 4M has 2 B763s).

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 11):
It will not be enough. There is still something unsaid about TAM's fleet. The rumour was that the 4 332 would have their leases renewed.

It's LAN implementing capacity discipline on TAM. IMO, the number of TAM A332s that are returned next year will most likely change during Q12013.



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 13):
(LA currently has 33 B763s and 4M has 2 B763s).


LAN just took delivery of CC-BDJ so LA currently has 34 B763s and 4M has 2 B763s.

[Edited 2012-11-13 22:42:46 by SA7700]
 
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NZ107
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:30 pm

Great, I'm just about to book a flight on their A343! When are they expected to take delivery of the 789s?
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
A388
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:34 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 6):
It's interesting to note that LAN Colombia will continue to operate the Dash 8-200s up to 2015; thus reinforcing LAN Colombia's commitment to regional operations with-in the Colombian domestic market.

Commitment to the Colombian market or the lack of an appropriate aircraft to replace these small but outdated Dash 8-200s. The only aircraft LAN can order as replacement is the ATR42-600.

A388
 
RJ_Delta
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 16):
Commitment to the Colombian market or the lack of an appropriate aircraft to replace these small but outdated Dash 8-200s.

LAN will replace Dash 8-200 fleet in 2016.

Best Regards,
 
A388
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 17):
LAN will replace Dash 8-200 fleet in 2016.

Best Regards,

Great, but why replacing them so late (2016)? Clearly these aircraft are outdated now already. Which aircraft has been selected to replace these Dashes?

A388
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 16):
Commitment to the Colombian market or the lack of an appropriate aircraft to replace these small but outdated Dash 8-200s.

According to LAN's fleet plan, the Dash-8-200s will be operating within Colombia through 2015. Obviously LAN sees value in operating into certain regional airports within Colombia. If not, LAN could have rapidly phased out the Dash-8-200s. For example, LAN Colombia does very well on the EOH-PEI route. Does Viva Colombia still operate MDE-PEI?
 
A388
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:05 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
Obviously LAN sees value in operating into certain regional airports within Colombia. If not, LAN could have rapidly phased out the Dash-8-200s.

There is obviously value in those routes, just not with an economical aircraft apparently. There is no reason to keep an outdated aircraft for so long. LAN can only go bigger in this case with the ATR42 and they probably haven't decided yet whether a larger aircraft is the best way to go on this thin routes. They probably have a dilemma here.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
For example, LAN Colombia does very well on the EOH-PEI route. Does Viva Colombia still operate MDE-PEI?

I'm not asking questions about the competition so stop turning things around as you always do.

A388
 
C010T3
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:06 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 13):
It's LAN implementing capacity discipline on TAM. IMO, the number of TAM A332s that are returned next year will most likely change during Q12013.

That's hilarious! The capacity problem in the Brazilian domestic market is not in TAM's hands. When it comes to the widebody fleet, fleet cuts translate into frequency cuts, which was not the discourse until now. It was all about international expansion.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:33 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 20):
There is no reason to keep an outdated aircraft for so long. LAN can only go bigger in this case with the ATR42 and they probably haven't decided yet whether a larger aircraft is the best way to go on this thin routes. They probably have a dilemma here.

That's a decision for LAN to make and I'm sure that they are looking at alternatives.  

Quoting A388 (Reply 20):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
For example, LAN Colombia does very well on the EOH-PEI route. Does Viva Colombia still operate MDE-PEI?

I'm not asking questions about the competition so stop turning things around as you always do.

I was simply giving you an example of how LAN Colombia actually preforms well on a specific regional route. You've been to EOH so you should already know that LAN is committed to certain regional routes and to EOH itself.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 21):
That's hilarious! The capacity problem in the Brazilian domestic market is not in TAM's hands. When it comes to the widebody fleet, fleet cuts translate into frequency cuts, which was not the discourse until now. It was all about international expansion.

Perhaps LAN thinks the 2 B77Ws coming next year will compensate for the A332s leaving the fleet. We also do not know if LAN will take-over any of TAM's international routes as yet.
 
something
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:36 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 21):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 13):
It's LAN implementing capacity discipline on TAM. IMO, the number of TAM A332s that are returned next year will most likely change during Q12013.

That's hilarious! The capacity problem in the Brazilian domestic market is not in TAM's hands. When it comes to the widebody fleet, fleet cuts translate into frequency cuts, which was not the discourse until now. It was all about international expansion.

Can you elaborate on that? I was under the impression that TAM was in need of more, rather than of less widebody/longhaul capacity. 77W will be too big for CNF, MAO to South Florida. What about their MAD flight/s? And FRA? Will GIG-FRA go 77W as well or will they maybe drop it and just fly more capacity into MAD and LHR? I think it was half jokingly, but I also heard of GRU-DUS on A332. In either way, it surprises me that TAM will minimize their A330 fleet.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
RJ_Delta
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:58 pm

Quoting something (Reply 23):
Can you elaborate on that? I was under the impression that TAM was in need of more, rather than of less widebody/longhaul capacity. 77W will be too big for CNF, MAO to South Florida. What about their MAD flight/s? And FRA? Will GIG-FRA go 77W as well or will they maybe drop it and just fly more capacity into MAD and LHR? I think it was half jokingly, but I also heard of GRU-DUS on A332. In either way, it surprises me that TAM will minimize their A330 fleet.

Probably in the near future some intra-Americans flights would be operated by LAN from Brazil following the example of the proposal LAN flight SCL-GIG-MIA. Chile has 5th freedom rights in Brazil and if the plans result could extend this type operations in the near future.

Best Regards,
 
C010T3
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:00 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 22):

Perhaps LAN thinks the 2 B77Ws coming next year will compensate for the A332s leaving the fleet. We also do not know if LAN will take-over any of TAM's international routes as yet.

Even so, if there were to be any expansion, Brazil would consume all of LAN's fleet growth.

Quoting something (Reply 23):
I was under the impression that TAM was in need of more, rather than of less widebody/longhaul capacity.

Exactly.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:18 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 25):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 22):

Perhaps LAN thinks the 2 B77Ws coming next year will compensate for the A332s leaving the fleet. We also do not know if LAN will take-over any of TAM's international routes as yet.

Even so, if there were to be any expansion, Brazil would consume all of LAN's fleet growth.

IMHO, LATAM is concerned with decreasing TAM's debt first and foremost. LAN will receive half of its order for 32 787s by the end of 2015 while maintaining a fleet of 39 B763s and LATAM also has to fund TAM's fleet renewal as well.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:06 pm

LAN do like their 767s don't they, it's surprising to heat talk of the A332 fleet being reduced when the 767 fleet is still increasing. Clearly it is a size of plane that suits their network, and is very cost effective.
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something
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:34 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 25):
Even so, if there were to be any expansion, Brazil would consume all of LAN's fleet growth.

And more than that. JJ is one of those airlines, along with EK just in a different market, whose main impediment to growth are aircraft deliveries. What most people tend to forget is how huge Brazil is both in size and population; how many countries it neighbors to and at what rate the continent is growing economically.

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 27):
LAN do like their 767s don't they, it's surprising to heat talk of the A332 fleet being reduced when the 767 fleet is still increasing. Clearly it is a size of plane that suits their network, and is very cost effective.

LAN received those new 767 as compensation over 787 delays. The A332 would leave the fleet, if they do, because their leases are running out. Those two developments have nothing to do with each other. Using LAN 767s in place of TAM A332 would just be provisonal, not their intended use. The 767 will fly on the routes the 787 should be flying on.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:34 am

And it has to be seen if JJ's 763s will keep their mediocre interiors. It's one thing not to spend money on short-term leases, but it seems that these birds will stick around for a while.
 
C010T3
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:21 am

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 29):
And it has to be seen if JJ's 763s will keep their mediocre interiors. It's one thing not to spend money on short-term leases, but it seems that these birds will stick around for a while.

They will not. They are being assigned charter duty for January, but are not scheduled for anything else after that.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:22 am

Quoting something (Reply 28):
And more than that. JJ is one of those airlines, along with EK just in a different market, whose main impediment to growth are aircraft deliveries.

TAM recently took delivery of 3 B77Ws and will soon receive its 8th B77W. TAM will receive 2 B77Ws during 2013 and 2 B77Ws during 2014. Also, LATAM will take delivery of 74 new A320 family a/c during 2013-2015 while 7 A320 family a/c and 6 B73Gs are phased out for a net gain of 61 A320 family a/c.

Quoting something (Reply 28):
Using LAN 767s in place of TAM A332 would just be provisonal, not their intended use. The 767 will fly on the routes the 787 should be flying on.

Let's not forget that TAM is still the launch customer for the A350 a/c in Latin America.
 
something
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:31 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 31):

Yes, all true. But they have flights from secondary Brazilian cities to Miami and Orlando. Rio to Europe, FRA in particular. All flights a 77W is too much, an A321 too little aircraft for. Especially if they have plans of growing. With them going to One World, they should connect all of those secondary and tertiary cities with MAD and/or LHR. They should also continue to focus on flights to the USA from those cities. For those roles, the A332 is ideal.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:50 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 18):
Great, but why replacing them so late (2016)? Clearly these aircraft are outdated now already

They are not so old, these are 200's, not 100's and were all built betwwen 1996-1998. The AC ones are 10 years older with no replacement in sight, again they have the same dilemma. With Q400's on order with more on option, they can replace 300's in some markets but it is too much aircraft to replace a 37 seater. As said, the only like for like replacement is the ATR42. Turboprops seems to soldier on longer than jets, despite the higher cycles.

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 7):
Today there are 6 aircraft in LATAM Airlines without use: 2 A340-500

These actually belong to AC and are stored at MLA. It would be interesting to know what the plan is for the birds, scrap man I guess, but I dont know why they just dont get on with it.
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KRIC777
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:27 am

Quoting RJ_Delta (Thread starter):
From the next year, the B787s will operate from the next year routes to SCL-EZE-SCL...

Am I missing something? Why would LAN operate a plane with the range of the 787 on SCL-EZE-SCL?....what is that, like 500-600 miles? Is this intended as a proving/crew familiarization route? Otherwise I would think that if SCL-EZE needed that much capacity, a 763 would work fine, or multiple narrowbody frequencies.
 
steve6666
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:37 am

Quoting something (Reply 28):
And more than that. JJ is one of those airlines, along with EK just in a different market, whose main impediment to growth are aircraft deliveries. What most people tend to forget is how huge Brazil is both in size and population; how many countries it neighbors to and at what rate the continent is growing economically.

Let's not forget that TAM lost just under R$1bn in the second quarter this year (compared to a profit in the same period of 2011 of R$60m odd, or put into proper money, somewhere around £300m. Imagine the wailing from the popular UK press if BA had lost that amount of cash in just one quarter (yes, I know it is not actual cash...). I am sure the article I read in Folha at the time talked about overcapacity in the domestic market, and IIRC also noted that both international and domestic ops were loss making.

Notwithstanding that, pervasive infrastructure inadequacy also has to be considered a severe impediment to growth for TAM. And Brazilian GDP growth for the year is currently projected around the 2% mark, which whilst far better that many countries in Europe, is not spectacular compared to 2010 levels say.

Plenty of reason to be cautious.
eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
 
something
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:53 am

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 35):
or put into proper money, somewhere around £300m

LOL

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 35):
I am sure the article I read in Folha at the time talked about overcapacity in the domestic market, and IIRC also noted that both international and domestic ops were loss making.

Brazilians prefer to travel on GOL because TAM gives the impression it is run by monkeys. I have no insight into the company but it is apparently a huge uncoordinated mess. There are many reasons why a company can be loss making.

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 35):
Notwithstanding that, pervasive infrastructure inadequacy also has to be considered a severe impediment to growth for TAM.

Things don't look much better on the European side in Madrid. But if TP can make Manaus, Recife, San Salvador and Brasilia to Lisbon work, then JJ should be in a much better position to replicate the same into MAD.

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 35):
And Brazilian GDP growth for the year is currently projected around the 2% mark, which whilst far better that many countries in Europe, is not spectacular compared to 2010 levels say.

GDP growth, yes. But don't forget that Brazil is a developing nation that is just starting to catch up with the first world. This ''catching up'' makes a lot of the growth, not necessarily growth in GDP and population. Those become driving forces once a level of saturation has been reached.

Quote:
Brazil experienced the strongest growth after China, with traffic up 8.5% on a 3.0% rise in capacity. Load factor rose to 77.7% from 73.8% last July. However growth softened compared to June, declining 2.3%.
http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2012-08-30-01.aspx

TAM seems to be struggling domestically, but internationally they seem to be doing very nicely.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...onalise-the-brazilian-market-84340
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
Arcano
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:00 am

Quoting RJ_Delta (Thread starter):
From the next year, the B787s will operate from the next year routes to SCL-EZE-SCL, SCL-LIM-LAX, SCL-LAX and SCL-MAD-FRA.

But wouldn't this mean a decrease in seat capacity in the route?
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:17 am

Quoting kric777 (Reply 34):

Quoting RJ_Delta (Thread starter):
From the next year, the B787s will operate from the next year routes to SCL-EZE-SCL...

Am I missing something? Why would LAN operate a plane with the range of the 787 on SCL-EZE-SCL?....what is that, like 500-600 miles? Is this intended as a proving/crew familiarization route? Otherwise I would think that if SCL-EZE needed that much capacity, a 763 would work fine, or multiple narrowbody frequencies.

The aircraft will be rotated between the SCL-LIM-LAX and SCL-MAD-FRA routes. Thus, instead of having it sit idle at SCL, it will operate SCL-EZE-SCL daily. LAN operates 71 weekly flights between SCL and BUE. The SCL-EZE route operates 50x weekly and LAN used to deploy the B763 on the route twice daily. The SCL-EZE route continues to operate 50x weekly and the 787 has replaced one daily B763 operated service. The B763 is still deployed on the route daily.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 33):

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 7):
Today there are 6 aircraft in LATAM Airlines without use: 2 A340-500

These actually belong to AC and are stored at MLA. It would be interesting to know what the plan is for the birds, scrap man I guess, but I dont know why they just dont get on with it.

CC-CQG also belongs to AC.

Quoting Arcano (Reply 37):
But wouldn't this mean a decrease in seat capacity in the route?

A340=42C/218Y
B787=30C/217Y
B763=30C/191Y
 
Arcano
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:37 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 38):
A340=42C/218Y
B787=30C/217Y

almost 50% C reduction, isn't that too much? specially considered the ever full SCL-MAD and the outrageous prices?
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:45 am

Quoting Arcano (Reply 39):
almost 50% C reduction, isn't that too much? specially considered the ever full SCL-MAD and the outrageous prices?

Nope. The B-787-8s will be deployed on other routes besides the SCL-MAD-FRA route. The B-787-9s will have a larger Premium Business Class cabin.
 
rafabullara
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:55 am

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 24):
Probably in the near future some intra-Americans flights would be operated by LAN from Brazil following the example of the proposal LAN flight SCL-GIG-MIA. Chile has 5th freedom rights in Brazil and if the plans result could extend this type operations in the near future.

I wonder how long does it gonna last! If the government thinks that LATAM is exporting jobs for Chile for paying less taxes, they will cut the 5th freedom rights in 10min.

This has been largely discussed on Brazilians forums and LAN will have to deal with what we use to call "Brazilian cost" (high taxes and overtaxes). So decreasing the number of international flights of TAM in favor of LAN will not happen.

My 2 cents is that some of the 767 will be painted in TAM colors, since no international registration can operate for a Brazilian airline. And Brazilians tend to choose a flag carrier first, unless prices are prohibitive.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:26 am

Quoting rafabullara (Reply 41):
This has been largely discussed on Brazilians forums and LAN will have to deal with what we use to call "Brazilian cost" (high taxes and overtaxes). So decreasing the number of international flights of TAM in favor of LAN will not happen.

TAM is increasing capacity on international flights with the B77Ws and is increasing frequencies on international routes. TAM just launched GIG-MCO daily, TAM now operates GRU-MIA 2x daily with the B77W and GRU-JFK will soon operate 9x weekly with the B77W and 5x weekly with the A332. TAM now operates GRU-MVD 3x daily and will launch GIG-MVD daily starting on Thursday. TAM will launch GIG-SCL daily on November 25th and will add another daily service on the GRU-SCL route in January. TAM has a lot of debt and needs to significantly reduce its debt if the airline wants to renew its fleet of widebody a/c.
 
rafabullara
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:31 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 42):
TAM is increasing capacity on international flights with the B77Ws and is increasing frequencies on international routes. TAM just launched GIG-MCO daily, TAM now operates GRU-MIA 2x daily with the B77W and GRU-JFK will soon operate 9x weekly with the B77W and 5x weekly with the A332. TAM now operates GRU-MVD 3x daily and will launch GIG-MVD daily starting on Thursday. TAM will launch GIG-SCL daily on November 25th and will add another daily service on the GRU-SCL route in January. TAM has a lot of debt and needs to significantly reduce its debt if the airline wants to renew its fleet of widebody a/c.

And that makes a lot of sense since TAM is profitable in the international market, and very unprofitable in the domestic market.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting rafabullara (Reply 43):
And that makes a lot of sense since TAM is profitable in the international market, and very unprofitable in the domestic market.

To remain profitable in the international market TAM needs to renew its fleet of widebody a/c in order to operate more efficient and economical aircraft. With TAM's debt, how will TAM renew its fleet of B763s and A332s?
 
rafabullara
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:46 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 44):
To remain profitable in the international market TAM needs to renew its fleet of widebody a/c in order to operate more efficient and economical aircraft. With TAM's debt, how will TAM renew its fleet of B763s and A332s?

What kind of renew do you suggest? The 77W are brand new, and most of the A330 have less than 10 years, the ones that have more will leave the fleet next year, and there are the A350s already ordered.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:52 am

Quoting rafabullara (Reply 45):
What kind of renew do you suggest?

TAM has 4 B77Ws on order and plans to renew its fleet of 20 A332s with the 27 A350s that TAM has on order. However, TAM's order for 27 A350s will cost more than LAN's order for 32 787s and is funded by LATAM. LATAM has funded TAM's 4 new 77Ws as well as the new A320 family a/c coming on property.

[Edited 2012-11-13 21:12:22]
 
rafabullara
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:06 am

So you are telling me that Lan will pay U$2.7 billions in 32 787? B/C the price for TAM's 27 A350s is U$5.4 billions.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:16 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 27):
LAN do like their 767s don't they, it's surprising to heat talk of the A332 fleet being reduced

The 767 is a good bit cheaper to run than a A330. Now the A330's are more flexible and have more revenue potential which make it a better plane for most airlines, but if you only need a 767 or smaller payload, the 767 will be better.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:11 am

Quoting rafabullara (Reply 46):
So you are telling me that Lan will pay U$2.7 billions in 32 787? B/C the price for TAM's 27 A350s is U$5.4 billions.

No, however you forgot to factor in engine costs associated with TAM's order for 27 A350s.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 47):
Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 27):
LAN do like their 767s don't they, it's surprising to heat talk of the A332 fleet being reduced

The 767 is a good bit cheaper to run than a A330. Now the A330's are more flexible and have more revenue potential which make it a better plane for most airlines, but if you only need a 767 or smaller payload, the 767 will be better.

LAN will have 43 B-767-300ERs and 12 B-767-300Fs in the fleet by the end of 2013. By the end of 2013, LATAM will have 2 A340s and 17 A332s in the fleet. With the SCL-LIM-LAX route operating with the B-787s; it will free up two B-767-300ERs that LAN could use to open up daily non-stop flights between GIG and MIA thus taking over the route from TAM. TAM also operates GRU-MCO 2x daily with the A332s. TAM could remove the A332s from the route and operate it as a daily service with the B77W which will increase yields on the route. Alternatively, TAM can offer connections to MCO on its daily GIG-MCO service or via MIA on LAN code-share flights operated by AA. TAM could also operate the GRU-JFK route 2x daily with the B77W, thus removing the A332 from that route.
 
RJ_Delta
Topic Author
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RE: LAN To Retire A340 Fleet

Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 am

Quoting kric777 (Reply 33):
Am I missing something? Why would LAN operate a plane with the range of the 787 on SCL-EZE-SCL?....what is that, like 500-600 miles? Is this intended as a proving/crew familiarization route?

Maximize the use of the aircraft. Is the similar operations for the B763s.

Quoting Arcano (Reply 36):
But wouldn't this mean a decrease in seat capacity in the route?

In the short time, yes but considering the economical situation in Spain could be logical. In the next years, the B787-9 will operate this route.

Best Regards,

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