A340Spotter
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Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:08 pm

As Part 7 has been archived, starting up Part 8...

For those that are interested, the long term resident Hellas Jet A320 has begun to be broken up at GYY. The engines are removed as are other components.

Are there any readers that are down at Columbus/BAK? Wondering if the Transair Hawaii 737-200C is still there and what sort of shape is it in?

Regards,
JSD (near VPZ)
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:05 am

 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:40 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 1):

SBN named a new Marketing Director.
FWA is also searching for a new marketing/air service director after Dave Young left for RDU at the end of August. The marketing/air service development post at FWA is a joint venture with the local Chamber of Commerce, which is also leading the search.

In other FWA news, Eagle will be going from 3 FWA-ORD flights per day to 4 in April (DFW remains at 2x daily). I also wouldn't be surprised to see DL upgrade FWA-ATL (and by extension, SBN-ATL) to at least 70-seaters in the new year, as DL has stated that 50-seat RJ routes between 450 and 750 miles like FWA/SBN-ATL will be the first to get upgauged. It seems like G4's FWA-PGD route is doing well, too, as fares (and probably yields) for FWA-PGD seem to be higher than G4's other PGD routes.

Also, the Aviation Association of Indiana released their economic impact study: http://www.aviationindiana.org/image...nomic%20impact%20study%20final.pdf

Not surprisingly, IND had the biggest economic impact at $4.5 billion (thanks, FedEx). SBN was second at $1.7 billion, FWA was third at $975 million, and EVV came in fourth at $945 million. Though GYY's impact was only $72 million, I expect that to grow substantially as the runway extension is completed and air service expands at GYY. The highest economic impact of an airport without commercial air service was Warsaw Municipal (ASW) at $858 million, just $117 million shy of nearby FWA.

Lastly, with all this talk about G4 going international, is there a reason why SBN didn't add an FIS facility in their new concourse? And could one be added in the future? I remember that SBN was originally talking about putting one in for G4 when it was in the planning stages. Per the 2012 FWA master plan, I know that an FIS should be added at FWA when the next terminal renovation takes place.

[Edited 2012-11-21 16:41:34]
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:29 am

And FIS facility could be added in the future at SBN but I do not know where. The old C holding room maybe but how do you get people off the plane in a sterile jetway area and not interfere with the ground vehicle movement between the new concourse and the main building. How do you also put in separate baggage carousel for the FIS. The only way to do this right is to build another extension of the new concourse with the same look on the west side of the old A holding room and have a separate baggage area and FIS facility. In building an extension of the concourse on the west side of the old holding room A this section can also be elevated 1/2 floor up like the new building. You would then also glass enclose the loading bridge area and be able to direct the passengers into the FIS and baggage claim area. This is similar to the old sterile areas to the old FIS at places like DFW and IAH. Leaving the area through an exit doors on the south side passengers would then exit into the present terminal via a corridor to the area outside of security an into the main building.

Putting a FIS on the west side you also run into a dilemma of working around the bus terminal.

They are also landlocked by the big hanger on the east side to build an FIS extension off the old C holding room. It's just a real dilemma on how to add an FIS. The easiest thing of all is to have US Customs Pre-clearance in Mexico which would negate the need for an FIS at SBN.

On a side note what would be nice is also a US Customs Pre-clearance at Billy Bishop Airport in Toronto which would make it easy on Porter to fly to SBN or FWA
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:40 am

Quoting FWAERJ
"I also wouldn't be surprised to see DL upgrade FWA-ATL (and by extension, SBN-ATL) to at least 70-seaters in the new year, as DL has stated that 50-seat RJ routes between 450 and 750 miles like FWA/SBN-ATL will be the first to get upgauged."

I talked to one of the DGS employees at SBN last Saturday after the ND-Wake Forrest game and he doesn't think Delta mainline (B717) would return to SBN except during certain ND home game weekends because SBN was originally a Delta Connection city with Comair even though they did have 737's going to CVG. In other words he said SBN is not a mainline city for Delta. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see mostly all flying at SBN go to CR7/CR9 in the near future though.

Most of these employees don't know what the mainline carriers plans are anyway so it's all a wash.

In other SBN news, their prime focus now is to get N/S service to the New York area. Secondary to this is service to DFW.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:46 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 4):
SBN was originally a Delta Connection city with Comair even though they did have 737's going to CVG.

SBN saw MD-88s to ATL as well. I remember going to SBN pre-9/11 and seeing an MD-88 in the Ron Allen livery headed to ATL from the old A holdroom.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 4):
In other SBN news, their prime focus now is to get N/S service to the New York area. Secondary to this is service to DFW.

Makes sense, as I remember reading before F9 arrived that SBN's top three markets without nonstop service (per management) were DFW, LGA, and DEN. DFW would have to be on AA (Eagle), but the question is if would cannibalize FWA-DFW (which sees a lot of SBN-area pax). As for LGA, it would most likely be a DL route.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 3):
And FIS facility could be added in the future at SBN but I do not know where. The old C holding room maybe but how do you get people off the plane in a sterile jetway area and not interfere with the ground vehicle movement between the new concourse and the main building. How do you also put in separate baggage carousel for the FIS. The only way to do this right is to build another extension of the new concourse with the same look on the west side of the old A holding room and have a separate baggage area and FIS facility. In building an extension of the concourse on the west side of the old holding room A this section can also be elevated 1/2 floor up like the new building. You would then also glass enclose the loading bridge area and be able to direct the passengers into the FIS and baggage claim area. This is similar to the old sterile areas to the old FIS at places like DFW and IAH. Leaving the area through an exit doors on the south side passengers would then exit into the present terminal via a corridor to the area outside of security an into the main building.

Putting a FIS on the west side you also run into a dilemma of working around the bus terminal.

They are also landlocked by the big hanger on the east side to build an FIS extension off the old C holding room. It's just a real dilemma on how to add an FIS. The easiest thing of all is to have US Customs Pre-clearance in Mexico which would negate the need for an FIS at SBN.

Sounds like it would be a challenge to add an FIS at SBN... they should have baked one into the new terminal as originally planned. They knew for years that G4 was eventually going to go international, and G4 is huge at SBN, so it baffles me why they didn't plan ahead for what is now a major player at SBN.

I would like to see US CBP preclearance at CUN and other Mexican airports, but with the Mexican drug wars, I don't see it happening even at tourist-area Mexican airports. As such, once the terminal expansion is finished in a few years, I see G4 focusing their northern Indiana Mexican flights at FWA.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:39 am

It would be a challenge adding an FIS at SBN but not impossible. DFW flights may not necessarily be on Eagle. Flights to EWR on UA would also be a possibility.
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:37 am

Here is an Aerial view of the new concourse at SBN. My take on how to ad an FIS is that there is plenty of room on the west side of the building. You take down the old A3 loading bridge (F9 gate) in left top of the picture and move it to A4 next door. You also demolish the vestibule extension where the A2 bridge was. You then build an extension of the new concourse on the west end but build it 3/4 up instead of 1/2 to accommodate the MD80 B757 A319 type acft. You can build it long enough to install 3 jetways. You build an inside jetway area sterile area to direct passengers to US Customs. This area can also be open when operating domestic flights. Baggage will be dropped off in an FIS dedicated baggage belt at the west side of this terminal extension. Double frosted glass doors as per other FIS facilities would be on the south end of the building extension which would lead to a corridor into the area of the new tunnel in the left hand side of the picture. FIS problem solved. The cost probably about 9 million including refurbished jetways etc. It would also take close to a year to build. It would also have the same special plastic roof as the new terminal does etc.
Aerial view of SBN Concourse A showing jetbridge layout
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:34 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 6):
DFW flights may not necessarily be on Eagle.

What would be the other options? Aside from NK (which I think is a VERY long shot), I can't think of any.

Even then, part of the draw of DFW is the extremely strong AA hub connections. If it were anyone but AA/Eagle, one couldn't tap into these connections. Even Eagle's FWA-DFW, which is one of the two strongest O&D legacy routes from FWA (the other being DL to ATL), has a lot of connecting traffic - it wouldn't work without connections, and neither would SBN.

[Edited 2012-11-22 06:36:35]
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
boilerla
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:36 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 8):
Even then, part of the draw of DFW is the extremely strong AA hub connections. If it were anyone but AA/Eagle, one couldn't tap into these connections. Even Eagle's FWA-DFW, which is one of the two strongest O&D legacy routes from FWA (the other being DL to ATL), has a lot of connecting traffic - it wouldn't work without connections, and neither would SBN.

Which is the opposite problem that SBN-EWR would have on UA. It'd primarily be O&D as I doubt there are that many SBN passengers connecting on TATL on a daily basis. UA probably wants their EWR slots for high margin TATL and its connecting flows, not on something that would be low-yielding except for some ND home weekends.

They'd have better luck trying to get SBN-IAD or SBN-IAH where slots aren't at a premium and there are better chances for connecting flows.
 
atlengineer
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 1):
The highest economic impact of an airport without commercial air service was Warsaw Municipal (ASW) at $858 million, just $117 million shy of nearby FWA.

The reason that Warsaw is that high is that Warsaw has 3 of the world's 5 largest orthopedic manufactures based there as well as the world headquarters of Daylight Screen Company.

ATLengineer
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting atlengineer (Reply 10):
The reason that Warsaw is that high is that Warsaw has 3 of the world's 5 largest orthopedic manufactures based there as well as the world headquarters of Daylight Screen Company.

Correct, which leads to a megaton of orthopedic and orthopedic supplier bizjets. IIRC, ASW is the busiest airport in Indiana for bizjets, and commercial traffic from Warsaw is pretty evenly split between FWA and SBN.

In addition to orthopedic makers and Da-Lite, Warsaw is also home to Lakeland Financial/Lake City Bank, one of the largest Indiana-based banks (but still behind SBN-based 1st Source and EVV-based Old National). Lake City is #1 in Warsaw by far, #2 in Elkhart/Goshen, #4 in FWA, and #8 in SBN (plus they recently expanded into Indianapolis). Lake City even wrote a supporting letter for the SBN SCASD application that led to F9 SBN-DEN.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 9):
UA probably wants their EWR slots for high margin TATL and its connecting flows, not on something that would be low-yielding except for some ND home weekends.

They'd have better luck trying to get SBN-IAD or SBN-IAH where slots aren't at a premium and there are better chances for connecting flows.

Which is why, IMO, FWA-EWR would work better than SBN-EWR. Less O&D, more international/TATL connecting flows. If SBN-NYC is mostly O&D, they would be far better served with DL SBN-LGA.

Anyway, one of my friends is predicting Armageddon for a lot of the commercial service at smaller airports in Indiana and across the nation with the ATP rule coming into effect shortly. Personally, I don't think there will be much impact at FWA or SBN (not sure about EVV), as the airlines have had three years to prepare for this and (at least at FWA) almost all of the routes are high-yield/high-load. If airlines have to cut because of the ATP rule, they will cut the weak routes first. Your thoughts?
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:26 am

Almost all of the regional airlines serving SBN and FWA are in compliance with the ATP rule. So no pilot Armageddon affecting SBN or FWA. I also have friends that fly for regionals and most of them have a lot of hours.

As to SBN-DFW routes they are talking to NK besides AA/American Eagle. . They have been also working on UA for SBN-IAH service for connections to Mexico and Central America. The real United long time ago had a SBN-DCA flight when John Brademas was the 3rd District Congressmen. Nonetheless they are still working with UA and DL for New York Service but the real bite they have on getting this service if they could get the slots is from SY.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:48 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 12):
As to SBN-DFW routes they are talking to NK besides AA/American Eagle. . They have been also working on UA for SBN-IAH service for connections to Mexico and Central America.

I figured the other option was NK, but I still don't think SBN-DFW would work without AA's connections. SBN-IAH would be a good alternative, but UA's "punishment" to Houston by flight cutbacks for allowing WN int'l ops at HOU means that this is less likely than before.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:15 pm

I sure would like to see Eagle upgauge the FWA-DFW flights, or at least 1 of them and add a third like they have had a time or two in the schedule.

Everytime I am one one, they are 100 full.(which is good..I just think they are leaving business on the table. A CR7 would make the trip to DFW a bit more pleasant and encourage more customers to choose that over an ORD connection.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:57 pm

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 14):
I sure would like to see Eagle upgauge the FWA-DFW flights, or at least 1 of them and add a third like they have had a time or two in the schedule.

As I have said before, there is no Eagle CR7 pilot base at DFW, plus the LAX base where the DFW CR7s come from is closing. Unless they plan on reopening the DFW CR7 base with the LAX base closure, the plane would have to be rotated in from another base like ORD. This may be a challenge as the FWA-DFW flights are timed for international connections at DFW.

I could see FWA-DFW among the first in line for larger aircraft if Eagle reopens the DFW CR7 base or if Eagle carriers get more 70-seaters. That said, with Eagle's traffic growth at FWA this year, I was surprised to see the 3rd FWA-DFW not return this winter (though as I mentioned earlier, the 4th FWA-ORD will return in April).
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
COSPN
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:01 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 7):
The cost probably about 9 million including refurbished jetways etc. It would also take close to a year to build. It would also have the same special plastic roof as the new terminal does etc.

I think Indiana taxpayers are tired of wasting money on airports, Hundreds of millions of Indiana tax dollars have been wasted on the United IND MX base, with tools!!!!, IND Midfield terminal (nice but no extra gates)
paying Cape air to fly from FWA/SBN to IND for no reason..

Fixing up GYY is the only thing Indiana should be spending money on right now..becase that will bring in more $$ for the state in the long run...
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:58 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 16):
paying Cape air to fly from FWA/SBN to IND for no reason..

Cape Air never flew FWA-IND, just SBN/EVV-IND (though there was almost GYY-IND service as well). FWA was invited to join in the Cape Air services, but Dave Young (FWA's ASD at the time) declined. Mr. Young did have an interest in FWA-EVV, but the powers that be also wanted FWA-IND flights if FWA were to sign on. Mr. Young's reasoning for not wanting FWA-IND was that IND is a much easier drive from FWA (2.5 hours and 100% interstate) than it is from SBN or EVV, which is also a reason why FWA leaks far more passengers to IND than SBN or EVV do.

However, TZ/C8 did briefly fly FWA-IND (which was switched from the initial FWA-MDW) to connect to the TZ focus city at IND. The C8 service was not linked in any way to the Cape Air service, and was bound to the same SCASD terms as the C8 MDW service. It was discontinued when C8 suspended operations and TZ dramatically cut IND.

Quoting COSPN (Reply 16):
Hundreds of millions of Indiana tax dollars have been wasted on the IND Midfield terminal (nice but no extra gates)

No tax dollars are used to fund IND or the Indianapolis Airport Authority as a whole, nor were any used in the construction of the new IND terminal. SBN, FWA, and EVV do use some tax dollars for operation, and in the case of FWA, most of the tax dollars are used to pay off the remaining Kitty Hawk hub debt.

And though the new IND terminal is similar in gate count to the old terminal (40 vs. 38 or so), there is room to build at least ten additional gates to the existing concourses should the need arise. The old terminal had zero room for new gates.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:26 am

Qouting FWAERJ

"I figured the other option was NK, but I still don't think SBN-DFW would work without AA's connections. SBN-IAH would be a good alternative, but UA's "punishment" to Houston by flight cutbacks for allowing WN int'l ops at HOU means that this is less likely than before."


You know they can bring Eagle back to SBN for svc SBN-ORD and have American (MD83's) fly SBN-DFW one or two R/T's a day like they were going to originally when Eagle was in SBN.


SBN seems to like LCC's. UA's sort of punishment to Houston has nothing to do with SBN getting service to IAH after all they still fly from GRR-IAH.
 
COSPN
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:40 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 17):

"No tax dollars are used to fund IND or the Indianapolis Airport Authority as a whole, nor were any used in the construction of the new IND terminal. SBN, FWA, and EVV do use some tax dollars for operation, and in the case of FWA, most of the tax dollars are used to pay off the remaining Kitty Hawk hub debt."

How much did the IMC (United 737 maintenance center) cost the Indiana tax payers ?? not just the money wasted on the tools and building, but when the mechanics were laid off it cost millions more in unemployment payments..

I would estimate about 1% of these MX workers were native Hoosiers, so it was just a huge waste..

Indiana needs to be more careful with their money BAA made millions for doing nothing at IND
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:53 pm

 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:55 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 19):
BAA made millions for doing nothing at IND

When it came to luring new airlines and air service to IND, BAA Indianapolis did a far better job than the Indianapolis Airport Authority is doing today. If BAA didn't pack up and leave IND like they did, IND probably still would have had decent service levels to the West Coast.

And did you know that the new IND terminal was basically built to BAA's specifications?
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:45 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 18):
You know they can bring Eagle back to SBN for svc SBN-ORD and have American (MD83's) fly SBN-DFW one or two R/T's a day like they were going to originally when Eagle was in SBN.

I don't think it would be wise to start SBN-DFW om the Mad Dog, as FWA-DFW (from an airport similar in size and pax count to SBN) can only support 2 or 3 ERJ-145s per day (though I could see it going to 2 CRJ-700s per day). Keep in mind that Eagle's last stint at SBN was pre-9/11 (not counting AmericanConnection to STL that ran from 2001-03), and times have changed a lot since then.

And you're right that Eagle could do SBN-ORD either alone or in addition to DFW. However, SBN-ORD is served by about the same number of seats per day on UA as FWA-ORD is on UA and Eagle combined, which brings the risk of market oversaturation.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
jetskipper
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:10 pm

Some quick spotters info, ND chartered a DL 757-200 for their trip between SBN and LAX. The return flight should arrive early Sunday.
 
COSPN
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:35 pm

Millions spent for a new airport in IND and the covered jet terminal at TYQ (Zionsville) , the rich cant get wet, I guess, but they tore down the bus station so the "poor" changing buses in Indy ,have to use crummy old toilets in the old Union Station basement, great image of Indianapolis 100 year old bathroom with no lock on the stalls...really sad...
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:30 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 22):
And you're right that Eagle could do SBN-ORD either alone or in addition to DFW. However, SBN-ORD is served by about the same number of seats per day on UA as FWA-ORD is on UA and Eagle combined, which brings the risk of market oversaturation.

Just thinking out loud here..is there a probability of any of the "eagle" branded carriers obtaining and thus using a few Q 400 to use on such short feeders to ORD as SBN/ MKE/ MSN, even FWA and PIA. Seems like for those 160/175 mile or less medium markets a more fuel efficient plane would make sense as soon as possible.. Thoughts? Observations? Inside info?? LOL! Thanks!
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:47 am

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 25):
Just thinking out loud here..is there a probability of any of the "eagle" branded carriers obtaining and thus using a few Q 400 to use on such short feeders to ORD as SBN/ MKE/ MSN, even FWA and PIA.

I remember reading on another thread here that AA was kicking the tires on some Q400s at Colgan back when they were around.

I don't know the specifics of a potential AA pilot contract and scope clause, but I do think that we could see large turboprops (again) in Eagle's future. Still, I think we'll see them from MIA first.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:10 am

American was going to do two maddog flights a day top DFW when Eagle served SBN but they could never agree on ground servicing rates for the aircraft with eagle.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:07 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 27):
American was going to do two maddog flights a day top DFW when Eagle served SBN but they could never agree on ground servicing rates for the aircraft with eagle.

Eagle ended SBN service late in 2000, so this had to be from 2000 or prior to then, which was also before 9/11. After the TWA merger, there was AmericanConnection service on SBN-STL between 2001 and 2003 (FWA-STL was dropped at the same time), but Eagle service from SBN-ORD never returned.

Notably, Eagle started FWA-DFW in 2000 at around the same time they ended SBN-ORD. And FWA-DFW has done very well for Eagle.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:30 am

Quoting FWAERJ "Eagle ended SBN service late in 2000, so this had to be from 2000 or prior to then, which was also before 9/11. After the TWA merger, there was AmericanConnection service on SBN-STL between 2001 and 2003 (FWA-STL was dropped at the same time), but Eagle service from SBN-ORD never returned."

SBN-ORD never returned because Eagle could not compete against ATA's low fares between SBN and MDW.

I think it was prior to 2000 as AA still had the Fokker 100's at the time. Before the TWA merger they had SBN-STL service on Transtates. One of my friends was a Jetstream41 Captain for them and he now flies for a major carrier.

SBN has got a very aggressive marketing team in place and I do look for new service announcements in the future. There are some empty airline counters behind temporary walls at SBN and with gate A8 being open plus the capability to reinstall the jetways on A2 and A4 anything is possible.

F9 also has some more rabbits in their hat for SBN.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:06 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 29):
F9 also has some more rabbits in their hat for SBN.

Maybe MCO to start? Yes, I know that G4 already serves SBN-SFB, but F9 has been on a real MCO kick as of lately.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:57 pm

"Quoting FWAERJ
"
Maybe MCO to start? Yes, I know that G4 already serves SBN-SFB, but F9 has been on a real MCO kick as of lately."

Hey don't give to much away. I think they will look at it since it's a different airport than SFB and If they do it it will be seasonal and out an backs like Allegiant and on different days than Allegiant.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:51 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 31):
Hey don't give to much away.

I don't have any contacts at either SBN or F9, so I was just guessing the obvious.  
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:03 pm

I do think SBN-MCO is being looked at though. The real reason I believe that SBN was able to get F9 in beside the grant and all the letter writing by business was that Elizabeth had contacts at F9 and was able to put together a persuasive case along with the business and educational community of SBN.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:17 pm

Any news regarding EVV besides the new jetways?

Since G4 operates from nearby Owensboro (OWB) across the state line plus the fact that OWB just renovated their terminal for them, I don't think G4 will move. But I could see F9 launching EVV-MCO and maybe EVV-DEN.

EVV management might need to act fast: the first phase of I-69 to IND just opened, which cuts travel time between Evansville and IND by 45 minutes to an hour over the old US 41/I-70 combination. And as a result, I could see more EVV leakage going to IND instead of the usual SDF.

[Edited 2012-11-25 15:22:17]
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
capitalflyer
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:34 am

Quoting boilerla (Reply 9):
They'd have better luck trying to get SBN-IAD or SBN-IAH where slots aren't at a premium and there are better chances for connecting flows.

Agreed. UA is making IAD the primary East Coast hub, saving valuable slots at EWR for O&D and high yielding routes. Any connections will be only to maximize these routes.

Connecting through IAD would work fine plus I am sure there is decent government related O&D (not to mention tourists) who would love a non stop to DC. Houston seems to be the wrong direction for these connections.

I have always wondered in fact who flies to Atlanta? Are these folks going on to Florida, Latin America, etc? Or are they coming back north to East Coast destinations (LGA, DCA, BOS, etc)? I have always thought ATL was out of the way to get anywhere other than the south. Any insight on where they are going?
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am

SBN I'm sure has O/D traffic to the DC area being it Government or Notre Dame University traffic. A SBN-IAH connection would be of use for the Hispanic population in SBN to connect to Mexico and Central and South America. SBN figures also in lieu of getting American Eagle back for service to DFW that SBN-IAH on United Express would be better and cheaper in the long run.

I have flown to SBN on Delta from DFW thru ATL several times now because it is very reliable and both times it has been cheaper than flying to MDW from DAL. The one SBN is definitely working on is with Delta to fly from SBN-LGA. There are a lot of connecting passengers going thru DTW to get to the New York area.

As far as SBN-DTW goes, it seems in the summer that there is a lot of SBN-DTW connecting traffic going to Europe on Delta's DTW-AMS. At least half the RJ flight I was on were making connections to AMS.
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:07 am

SBN has recently rebuilt the ramp under Gate A5 with reinforced concrete because the asphalt was melting this summer. The asphalt was giving way under the jetway etc at A5. They are eventually going to rebuild the whole ramp in the new concourse area. Delta can now park any of their RJ's or their DC9/MD80 aircraft on the A5 pad. Eventually they can reinstall jetways at A4 and A2 in the old building.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:23 am

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 35):
Connecting through IAD would work fine plus I am sure there is decent government related O&D (not to mention tourists) who would love a non stop to DC.

As much as I could see SBN-IAD, I could see FWA-IAD first for three reasons:

1) there is very heavy traffic (much of it government and defense) between FWA and DC, moreso than even NYC
2) most of that traffic goes to IAD because the FWA-area business is in the IAD area
3) the Fort Wayne Chamber of Commerce sent out a survey to businesses earlier this year to gauge interest in nonstop FWA-IAD
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
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csturdiv
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:46 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 34):
EVV management might need to act fast: the first phase of I-69 to IND just opened, which cuts travel time between Evansville and IND by 45 minutes to an hour over the old US 41/I-70 combination. And as a result, I could see more EVV leakage going to IND instead of the usual SDF.

I just drove it today on my way home to the Chicago area after visiting family in southern Indiana. It might be a while until the next phase is open and what is open now doesn't get you close to Indianapolis yet. True that the open portion of I69 and it's 70mph speed limit is nice, but once you get to the end and hop on the single lane county/state highways the rest of the way to Indy to pick up I465, it is slow going. I took I465 west which took me past IND and noticed several buildings with the Comlux logo on it. Will their current fleet of Airbus ACJ's and other bizjets be making appearances there? Or is that just going to be used for cabin fits as their press release states.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:26 pm

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 39):
I just drove it today on my way home to the Chicago area after visiting family in southern Indiana. It might be a while until the next phase is open and what is open now doesn't get you close to Indianapolis yet. True that the open portion of I69 and it's 70mph speed limit is nice, but once you get to the end and hop on the single lane county/state highways the rest of the way to Indy to pick up I465, it is slow going.

Good trip report - I wasn't expecting one this soon.

Once I-69 gets up to Bloomington shortly, connecting to a 4-lane road (that will eventually be converted into part of I-69), the trip between Evansville and IND will be even faster. And that is when EVV management will need to be aware of possible traffic and leakage shifts.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:43 pm

FWA's October numbers are in. Traffic is up 6.99% in October (and 2.39% year-to-date), with much of that growth coming from G4's FWA-PGD service (G4 boardings alone were up 46%). DL also posted a bit of a rebound from their earlier slump with a 10.32% increase.

YTD market share at FWA for 2012:
DL 42.54%
AA (Eagle) 27.91%
G4 16.71%
UA 12.25%
Charters 0.58%

Source (updated monthly): http://www.fwairport.com/images/gallery/AirlineActivitySummary1.pdf

Does anyone at SBN have any insight to how G4's SBN-PGD is doing? I know that FWA-PGD commands a fare premium over the other G4 PGD routes, likely due to the many FWA locals that vacation in Fort Myers.

A little story about FWA-PGD: FWA's former ASD once told me back in the days of an independent FL (yes, FWA was talking to them about service) that FL told him that 10% of their IND-RSW pax came from the FWA catchment area. As a result, RSW/PGD was one of the most-requested destinations from FWA, with people wishing for the city on FWA's Facebook page and in other places. Obviously, bringing these pax back to FWA was a top goal for him, and after WN and FL merged and the collapse of Direct Air (he was leery of public charters from the start), he used these FL IND-RSW numbers to get G4 to launch FWA-PGD. (Interestingly, it was this ASD's last new city for FWA before he left for a similar position at RDU.)
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:17 am

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/la...re-federal-funds-looking-good.html

GYY should hear soon about $24 million in funding from the FAA to fund certain parts of GYY's expansion. Former IND head and GYY consultant John Clark seems to be confident that they will get it, though.

While on the subject of GYY, are G4's loads looking good? And could other cities be added in the near future? LAS and AZA can't and won't be added until the expansion is complete; could GYY-PIE and/or PGD work in the near term?

[Edited 2012-12-15 16:18:38]
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
bravogolf
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 42):
G4's loads looking good?
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 42):
could GYY-PIE and/or PGD work in the near term?

G4 loads are good. Now over 10K pax enplaned. PIE worked about 10 years ago with Southeast Airline.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:53 am

Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 43):
PIE worked about 10 years ago with Southeast Airline.

You've got a good point on GYY-PIE... and knowing Allegiant's typical city patterns, I personally think that route would be next in line before GYY-PGD.

I wonder if MYR would work on a seasonal basis (a la FWA-MYR) as well, as Hooters Air flew GYY-MYR successfully.

Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 43):
G4 loads are good. Now over 10K pax enplaned.

Which, as we all know, qualifies GYY for more FAA funding. And I expect these pax numbers to grow.

[Edited 2012-12-16 16:54:50]
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:02 pm

FWA's November board meeting minutes were released today (the December meeting was today, and FWA always releases their minutes one meeting after the actual meeting took place).

The minutes had some interesting tidbits:
-DL's FWA-MSP is seasonal once again; it ended in late November and will resume on 3/3/13 (however, DL suspends much of its flying in January and February)
-All-airline LFs for October at FWA were 85%, which goes well with the 6.99% year-over-year increase for October (as stated earlier, much of it has to do with G4 launching FWA-PGD)
-Air cargo (FedEx and UPS) at FWA is up 6.5% YTD
-Professional services agreements with the Economic Development Alliance (airport land and property development) and Chamber of Commerce (air service development) were renewed; the Alliance work will shift somewhat now that the old Kitty Hawk hub has been completely reused (which was a top priority)

Source: http://www.fwairport.com/images/gallery/MINUTES.11.19.12.pdf

November pax numbers for FWA are not up yet, but numbers for the previous month are typically posted the day after the month's board meeting (i.e. November numbers in December)
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
Superfly
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:11 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 40):
Once I-69 gets up to Bloomington shortly, connecting to a 4-lane road (that will eventually be converted into part of I-69), the trip between Evansville and IND will be even faster.

For many years, I've always wondered when they would ever complete I-69 thus completing the final cross in the crossroads state.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 44):
Which, as we all know, qualifies GYY for more FAA funding. And I expect these pax numbers to grow.

I hope so. I'd like to see GYY as a larger player in the passenger airline service.
Bring back the Concorde
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:41 pm

FWA's November stats are in:

-3.85% increase versus November 2011
-2.56% increase year-to-date versus 2011
-All-airline load factors are 82% (they have often been in the 80% range this year... I wonder if this means more flights headed our way in 2013)
-Year-to-date FWA pax counts are almost at levels last seen in 2008, when the recession started to hit
-G4 pax boardings were up almost 42% year-over-year (thanks to the successful launch of FWA-PGD)
-DL was up 8.27% (between that and 9E getting the CR9s, a good sign for larger planes next year)
-Eagle was down 11.15% year-over-year (probably due to one fewer DFW flight this fall than last), and UA was down 3.6%
-Year-to-date FWA market share: DL leads at 42.83%, Eagle is next at 27.75%, G4 is at 16.65%, UA is at 12.16%, and charters make up the rest (0.6%)
-Cargo (FedEx and UPS) is up 9.77% (probably a big reason why FedEx is now sending the 757 to FWA in addition to UPS)

Source: http://www.fwairport.com/images/gallery/AirlineActivitySummary1.pdf
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
jetskipper
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:04 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 47):
-Cargo (FedEx and UPS) is up 9.77% (probably a big reason why FedEx is now sending the 757 to FWA in addition to UPS)

FWA gets two FedEx flights a day, the MEM-FWA-SBN flight on the 727-200 from the sort in Memphis, and the PVD-FWA-MEM flight on the 757-200 to the sort. Its hard to tell if the up gauge in equipment is due to increased demand from Providence or Fort Wayne. Eventually the morning MEM-FWA-SBN flight will be replaced with a 757-200 as the 727s are slowly retired.
 
jetskipper
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 8

Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:07 pm

I may be a day late, but for any South Bend spotters, Notre Dame flew a Delta A-330-300 to FLL for the national title game.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...3/history/20130102/1800Z/KSBN/KFLL

The team should be arriving back in South Bend on the 8th. I was really hoping that SBN would finally get a 747-400, since this was a National Title charter. I know other teams such as Nebraska and Wisconsin routinely use 747s for their team charters. Just wishful thinking I guess...

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