xdlx
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Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:14 pm

What is the expectation for DL to the 787 order? I understand it was deffered,
however is DL considering the -9 or -10 instead?
And now theat the -10 is being offered, how does this affect the timeline?
 
spiritair97
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:25 pm

I'm still a bit skeptical whether or not DL will take any 787s at all MAYBE the-10 but I don't think we'll ever see a 788 in DL colors.
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:28 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 1):

What do you expect will replace close to 60 767-300ER that they have? 787-8 is the only new gen aircraft that is close in size to the -300ER, in reality its close to a 767-400ER seat wise in DL configuration. DL 2.5 class 767-400ER has 246 seats and a Boeing 3 class configuration for the 787-8 is 242 and DL 767-300ER has 208 in new lie flat configuration. The 787-9 roughly about the same size as the A350-800 the smallest of the A350 family will be to big and to heavy for the route network that DL employs so many of its 767 fleet on short hops between N. America and Europe and to S. America. 787-8 is the perfect plane for DL to replace most of its 767-300ER fleet with room to slightly increase seat count on all the routes once the 767 are replaced by 787-8. DL has a decent chunk of its route network that is so seasonal that some of the routes cannot support anything bigger that a 767-300ER, of course they will hope those routes grow in the future and in my opinion the 787-8 will be the next size up to upgauge the 767-300ER routes.
 
strfyr51
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:40 pm

Once DL see's UAL operating the airplane and the Bugs are all worked out I think they'll activate their orders. They Didn't jump in and order the B777 right off the Bat Either. Northwest NEVER ordered it and the CEO is formerly a Northwest CEO who Had a Relationship with Airbus and the A330 Right now they're the only US major operating the A330 and the B777 in direct comparison operations. So in my opinion they would be the most knowledgeable to evaluate the A330, A350, B767, B787 and B777 attributes.
 
sweair
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:44 pm

The A358 is looking ever more still born so the 788 will be the only game in town in that size. I can see a mixed order of 788/789 and maybe even some 7810
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:57 pm

Ed Bastian, DL's President, told employees that the 788 did not meet design specifications and so they deferred the order. He said the 789 looked more in line with what DL would want in terms of capacity and range. The orders were held off until 2020 but that could change at any time if DL suddenly felt a need for more international capacity but I look for them to run the 767ER and 764's as l ong as they are economically feasable especially since they just invested so much in new interior upgrades.

The 767ER is really marginal range wise on many DL segments like JFK-IST-JFK, JFK-ATH-JFK and JFK-DXB-JFK. Who knows--if they can get a couple of 777ER's or LR's at a good price they may grab them. SQ will start unloading theirs soon.

I remember when NW bought 2 747-200's from SQ and basically did not realy perform "due dilligence" prior to the purchase. Even though the planes were only about 7-8 years old they had major corrosion issues that cost millions to repair and kept the aircraft out of service for months later than planned.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:02 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 4):
I can see a mixed order of 788/789 and maybe even some 7810

I see this happening as well, kinda surprised they deferred them so far back.
Please let me know... If you know this is the end of the world, Let me know... If you know the truth...
 
xdlx
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:19 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 6):

Perhaps more importantly is how flexible is the deferral and how quick can B fill the order. 2020 is a lot of cicles on the "new" lie flat product. I expect them to announce something within 18mos for deliveries starting 2015 foward.
So it appears they will kick can down the road for next contract with DALPA.
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:22 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 3):
Northwest NEVER ordered it

NW indeed did order the 787. NW was going to be the North American launch customer of the 787.
The New American is arriving.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting nwcoflyer (Reply 8):
NW indeed did order the 787.

They did not, however, order the 777, which was the family strfyr51 was referring to in their comment.  
 
NW
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting nwcoflyer (Reply 8):
Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 3):Northwest NEVER ordered it
NW indeed did order the 787. NW was going to be the North American launch customer of the 787.

Indeed NW did order the 787, quite a few. Boeing painted part of the tail on one of the original 787's with the NW red color for tests. There are pictures of this floating around somewhere.
 
PHX787
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 2):


What do you expect will replace close to 60 767-300ER that they have?

This is what I'm thinking, but I'm expecting the 789 to be on the order docket for DL. To replace the 747, maybe the 7810.... or 77W

Ahhhhh a 7810 or 77W in DL colors   
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mayor
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting NW (Reply 10):
Quoting nwcoflyer (Reply 8):
Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 3):Northwest NEVER ordered it
NW indeed did order the 787. NW was going to be the North American launch customer of the 787.

Indeed NW did order the 787, quite a few. Boeing painted part of the tail on one of the original 787's with the NW red color for tests. There are pictures of this floating around somewhere.

See previous post.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
spiritair97
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 2):

I'm saying that I expect the 789 to replace then. I should have made that clearer in my original post.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:57 pm

I would expect DL to keep, and eventually increase their order for the B-788.

The B-788 can replace all B-767s in the fleet, including the non-ER B-763s, about 95 total airplanes. They may also use some B-788s to replace the B-753s.

I think a seperate order will be for the B-789 to replace all 32 A-330s.

But with tis theory, DL doesn't need the B-787 for at least another 8 years before they get their first one on property.

DL's order last year for 100 B-737-900ERs will be increased so they can continue replacing the older B-757-200, and MD-88s (DL may order more B-738s for the MD-88 and DC-9s replacements). DL will eventually order the B-737MAX, both the -8 and the -9 models to replace the remainder of the B-757s, A-320s, and MD-88s (and eventually the MD-90s). They may, or may not, order the B-737-7MAX to replace the A-319s and B-73Gs (the A-319s will retire first as they are older). This could make DL the launch customer for the B-737-7MAX.

That only leaves the question of what will DL replace the B-744s, B-77Es, and B-77Ls with? That answer may be the B-777-9X or B-787-10, and maybe some B-747-8Is..

That will leave the new DL fleet of;
B-737-800/-900ER
B-737-7/-8/-9MAX
B-787-8/-9 and possibly the -10
B-777-9X (possible)
B-747-8 (possible)

That brings the combined fleet down from 9 types (not including sub-types) to 3 or possibly as many as 5 (not including sub-types).
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:08 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):

That will leave the new DL fleet of;
B-737-800/-900ER
B-737-7/-8/-9MAX
B-787-8/-9 and possibly the -10
B-777-9X (possible)
B-747-8 (possible)

That brings the combined fleet down from 9 types (not including sub-types) to 3 or possibly as many as 5 (not including sub-types).

If this happens, which is possible, it is still 10-15 years away. At least.

DL mainline will remain rather diverse beyond the end of this decade.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
xdlx
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:07 pm

After 48h you would have expected some of the DL fans to have spilled any info on this subject, so apparently no one really knows if and when DL plans for the 788 ordered by NW...
 
cokepopper
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:41 pm

The original 787 NW order was differed to 2020, as of today, NOT cancelled..
Maybe this article will help:
http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...prefers-stability-in.html?page=all

"Anderson has actually pushed Delta’s delivery dates for the 787 back until 2020 and is holding off entirely on ordering any more, or any of the Airbus competitor, the A350."

“Regularity and dependabilty is really important in our business,” he said. “Boeing will get through the 787-8 launch, the airplane will mature, and we’ll be interested in taking look at 787-9 and A350 once those airplanes materialize.”
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:49 pm

It's pretty straightforward at this time, and there is little more to debate/discuss. People do know the plans for the 787 at DL, DL mentions in specifically in all of the SEC filings.

DL has reaffirmed the order but deffered the 787-8 until 2020-2022. Period. Beyond that, everything is speculation, hearsay, or opinion. Nothing has publically changed on the matter since late 2010.

The justification could be based on the following points:

DL also has no immediate need for any additional widebody / international capacity, particularly with the downturn the European economy, sluggish domestic economy, and capacity disipline across the Pacific.

DL has ample international aircraft that are still within their usable life, even with modest expansion and growth, if it makes economic sense. While the 787 would have some efficiency gains, there is a tradeoff with the acquistion cost of new (expensive) aircraft. There are also costs with parking/retiring/removing older aircraft that are still within their operational and economic life.

DL made the decision in 2010 to invest in product upgrades on its existing widebody/international fleet (744, 777, 767, A330, 757). The next priority is the domestic fleet which will consume the majority of capital expeditures between 2013-2018 (717, 739ER, MD90, 76 seat RJs).
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Status Of DL(NW) 787 Order

Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:16 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 25):
DL made the decision in 2010 to invest in product upgrades on its existing widebody/international fleet (744, 777, 767, A330, 757). The next priority is the domestic fleet which will consume the majority of capital expeditures between 2013-2018 (717, 739ER, MD90, 76 seat RJs).

Finally going with a standard interior. Apparently, the customers like the 73H that's been flying around with the new seat pattern and DL logo on the bulkhead. All a/c will slowly loose the seats they currently have and a standard (or two) seat will be picked. As we know, the 319s/320s, 88s, 757s all have different seat types; simply received new covers.
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