Tobias2702
Topic Author
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:49 pm

AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:25 pm

Hi, this is just in. In May 2013, AB will not resume its seasonal flights to non AA hubs in North America. Instead, frequencies to LAX, JFK, ORD and MIA (from both DUS and TXL/BER) will be increased.

source: http://www.airberlingroup.com/en/pre...2013-inspired-by-efficiency-drive-
PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
 
spiritair97
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:28 pm

RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:52 pm

I'm not surprised. AB seems to be in a state where they need as many connections as possible to help them out. On the bright side, we can see more of the beautiful AB a330s at JFK!  
 
leftyboarder
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:53 pm

Bells are ringing. At least for now, we can be sure that AB is sticking with OW I guess?
 
shamrock321
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:00 pm

Given AB rather small long haul network surely it makes sense for them to concentrate on less markets rather than spreading themselves to thinly?
 
mogandoCI
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:03 pm

What about that oddball route to RSW ? Are they keeping it ?
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:14 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 4):
What about that oddball route to RSW ? Are they keeping it ?

Not really an oddball considering how popular Fort Myers is with German tourists. Plus, the route (ex-LTU) has been in place for a long, long time.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
mogandoCI
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:23 pm

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 5):
Not really an oddball considering how popular Fort Myers is with German tourists. Plus, the route (ex-LTU) has been in place for a long, long time.

Any reason why LH doesn't fly it then ?
 
G500
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:26 pm

This seems like a logical move

However is sad to see AB drop SFO... I see more and more European tourists there
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2535
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:47 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6):
Any reason why LH doesn't fly it then ?

ZERO business travel. It's a total leisure market. It is quite popular with tour organizers. It's basically a charter route with around 10-20% of the seats bookable directly.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
LV
Posts: 1546
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 6:02 am

RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:35 pm

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 5):
Not really an oddball considering how popular Fort Myers is with German tourists. Plus, the route (ex-LTU) has been in place for a long, long time.

I lived in Cape Coral for three and a half years and every time I went to the Publix down the street from my house there was more German than English being spoken in there.

Still, sad to see them ending LAS, especially as someone whose job depends on plane load after plane load of tourists coming to this town. Hopefully this won't slow down the growth among German tourists to Sin City.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:03 pm

JFKDUS will increase from 7w to 10w.

MIADUS will increase from 5w to 7w.

MIATXL will increase from 3w to 5w.

LAXDUS will increase from 3w to 4w.
a.
 
flyingalex
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:33 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6):
Any reason why LH doesn't fly it then ?
Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 8):
ZERO business travel. It's a total leisure market. It is quite popular with tour organizers. It's basically a charter route with around 10-20% of the seats bookable directly.

Exactly, and LH's aircraft are very premium-heavy compared to AB's:

AB A332: 24C/271Y
vs.
LH A333: 8F/48C/165Y
LH A343: 44C/222Y or 8F/36C/181Y or 8F/48C/165Y


On which do you reckon would it be easiest to turn a profit flying people to the beach?

EDIT: Might be a good route for Condor though!

[Edited 2012-11-15 11:34:49]
Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
 
TWA85
Posts: 285
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:21 pm

The article also mentions that AB will be transferring a lot of Eastern Europe service from VIE to BER. This move is a sign that AB really is moving away from it's p2p leisure oriented strategy and moving more towards a hub-and-spoke network strategy. It will be exciting to see what other restructuring plans AB has in the future. Maybe AB someday will begin routes like BER/DUS to NRT/HKG/PEK.
 
mogandoCI
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Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:40 pm

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 11):
On which do you reckon would it be easiest to turn a profit flying people to the beach?

The easiest way to turn a profit is *not* flying a plane for 10 hours just to bring tourists to a beach. I still can't figure out what AB wants to be - Condor/ThomasCook-like, Ryanair-like, or BA-like ?
 
Andie007
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:52 pm

Has anyone checked the flight details for the new additional DUS-JFK-DUS flights?
Found some double dailys in June 2013 - but it's a bad joke that they're flying on the same time, right?
 
mikeology
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:20 pm

RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:58 pm

Glad I had the chance to try it for the brief time it serviced SFO. Fingers corssed they come back
 
multimark
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:53 pm

RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:15 pm

Oh well, at least YVR is gaining additional German lift, in the form of LH to MUC.
 
spiritair97
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:28 pm

RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:56 pm

Quoting Andie007 (Reply 14):

Refer to:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 10):

No info on timings, but it does state that there will be double dailys certain days like you said.
 
qf340500
Posts: 220
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:03 am

Great move from AB i think, all the changes stated in the article make sense from a alliance point of view, also makes me think that AB is not going out of oneworld soon...

just a comment: can the title of the thread be changed? Its not ONLY about cutting routes but also increasing others significantly... just to make the thread name sounding "less negative"
 
laca773
Posts: 2033
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:14 am

Is AB keeping TXL-LAX around or did it get the axe until the new airport opens?
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:29 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 19):
Is AB keeping TXL-LAX around or did it get the axe until the new airport opens?

AB will resume TXL-LAX 2x weekly on 10MAY13 and will increase frequency to 3x weekly on 20MAY13.
 
laca773
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:20 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 20):

AB will resume TXL-LAX 2x weekly on 10MAY13 and will increase frequency to 3x weekly on 20MAY13.

Thanks for the update SCL767. I thought there was something missing in mah4546's posting.
 
miaintl
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:54 am

Hopefully BER can be OW's answer to VIE and MUC, an Eastern European hub.
 
r2rho
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 pm

RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:52 am

A pity as AB was an interesting alternative to these not so well served destinations, but they were low frequency anyway. It makes sense in the frame of AB restructuring: dropping low-freq leisure routes for more frequencies to higher-yielding AA hubs. It is also a sign of commitment to OW, or at least AA.
 
ushermittwoch
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:18 am

Quoting r2rho (Reply 23):

A pity as AB was an interesting alternative to these not so well served destinations, but they were low frequency anyway. It makes sense in the frame of AB restructuring: dropping low-freq leisure routes for more frequencies to higher-yielding AA hubs. It is also a sign of commitment to OW, or at least AA.

Considering that only very, very few tickets on these flights actually were significantly cheaper than AF/KL, BA or LH flights, I don't see how they'd qualify as an interesting alternative, considering their vastly inferior cabin product on long-haul flights.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
PanHAM
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:49 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 13):
The easiest way to turn a profit is *not* flying a plane for 10 hours just to bring tourists to a beach.

well, as was said, many Germans own residences on the FL west coast, from Cape Coral down to Naples. I could imagine that the premium seats fo the flights are sold as well. So, it is not just about flxing tourists to the beach.

LH operates to MIA and MCO which covers FL pretty good and Condor serves FLL

LAS casinos must not be too sorry for the cancelled AB flights, Germans don't gamble.
powered by Eierlikör
 
JU068
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:52 am

Niki will be terminating its operations from Vienna to Belgrade, Bucharest and Sofia. Routes to Bucharest and Sofia are to be eventually launched from Berlin.
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 26):

Niki will be terminating its operations from Vienna to Belgrade, Bucharest and Sofia. Routes to Bucharest and Sofia are to be eventually launched from Berlin.

Well, that's just dumb. This is conceeding A LOT of traffic to OS. Nobody will be willing to backtrack to TXL (or BER in 2028) to get to these destinationsl
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
PanHAM
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:58 pm

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 27):
Nobody will be willing to backtrack to TXL (or BER in 2028) to get to these destinationsl

...and since there is no feeder from HAM BRE HAJ everyone else would have to backtrack. Berlin is in a peripheric location, makes me wonder that they don't knpow that at AB.
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flyingalex
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:26 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 13):
The easiest way to turn a profit is *not* flying a plane for 10 hours just to bring tourists to a beach.

I disagree. In the right configuration, you can make a lot of money flying tourists to far-off beaches. You just need the right beach and the right tourists.

Condor do pretty well for themselves in this sort of business. And DUS-RSW has been around for long enough that I would think it does all right as well, otherwise it would have been axed a long time ago.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 13):
I still can't figure out what AB wants to be - Condor/ThomasCook-like, Ryanair-like, or BA-like ?

If you do figure it out, tell Air Berlin. I don't think they know either.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 28):
Berlin is in a peripheric location, makes me wonder that they don't knpow that at AB.

You're forgetting that AB's headquarters are in Berlin, staffed by Berliners. And as good Berliners, they naturally assume that Berlin is the center of the universe, the hub of the world, and it would never enter their minds to think otherwise.  
Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
 
JU068
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 27):
Well, that's just dumb. This is conceeding A LOT of traffic to OS. Nobody will be willing to backtrack to TXL (or BER in 2028) to get to these destinationsl

It makes absolutely no sense especially since Austrian Airlines has countless frequencies to all these cities. On top of that both Air Bulgaria and Tarom fly to Vienna! I would be surprised if they have more than 3 passengers per year to Vienna.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 28):
...and since there is no feeder from HAM BRE HAJ everyone else would have to backtrack. Berlin is in a peripheric location, makes me wonder that they don't knpow that at AB.

Unless they are not interested in attracting these passengers and would rather offer flights to North America and Scandinavia (maybe even to other points in eastern Europe).
 
JRadier
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 11):
EDIT: Might be a good route for Condor though!

Not unless AB quit, Condor doesn't really seem to be going head to head with anyone!

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 13):
I still can't figure out what AB wants to be - Condor/ThomasCook-like, Ryanair-like, or BA-like ?

The funny thing is, Condor is very different from Thomas Cook, even though they are part of the same group. Thomas Cook is a mass-market tour operator, while Condor is increasingly going for the niche markets.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
flyingalex
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:35 pm

Quoting JRadier (Reply 31):
Not unless AB quit, Condor doesn't really seem to be going head to head with anyone!

Agreed. My point was that if another German airline was to take over the route from AB if they ever dropped it, then Condor would be the closest fit.
Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
 
Andie007
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RE: AB To Cut SFO, LAS, YVR

Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:25 pm

For the DUS-JFK route, the flight times will be:

AB7450 13:05-15:30 / AB7451 17:35-07:15+1
AB7480 17:00-19:25 / AB7481 21:10-10:50+1

AB7450 will be the daily one.