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1337Delta764
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JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:01 am

According to a post on FT, it looks like the planned T2 to T4 walkway has officially been scrapped. From what I heard, Delta will instead add more shuttle buses running more frequently, and the buses will use a dedicated travel path.

IMO, in addition to more frequent buses, Delta should add some New Flyer Xcelsior articulated buses. Articulated buses would provide more capacity, thus alleviating overcrowding.
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STT757
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:32 am

It's was going to be too long of a walk anyway, even with moving sidewalks. It's pretty clear DL's plans for JFK have changed over the last couple years, ideas of turning JFK into a connecting hub (EWR) are not going to work. Thus the LGA slot swap, where they are building a terminal to terminal connector.

[Edited 2012-11-16 03:34:50]
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spiritair97
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:24 pm

I am a bit disappointed . I hate hate hate the buses and being packed into them llike that. Personally, it doesn't bode well with my claustrophobia.
 
airliner371
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:30 pm

Now, total speculation but this could be because they don't plan on keeping T2 much longer. They could plan on building a new terminal and connect that to T4. Or they could do some kind of gate swap where other airlines go to T2. My point being, they may not plan on using T2 long enough to make it worth while.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:21 pm

Told you! I want credit for calling this one over a month ago. haha

It was a long walk, T2 isn't long for this world, and there is an intense rumor that DL and AA will pull a switcharoo.

No need for this walkway
 
spiritair97
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:26 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):

Would be cool if DL and AA switched terminals, but why would DL want to juat abandon a half-built terminal into which they've sunk a lot of money. Also, why would AA want to leave their terminal and move to an older one and a half-built one with less gate space?
 
klkla
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):
but why would DL want to juat abandon a half-built terminal into which they've sunk a lot of money. Also, why would AA want to leave their terminal and move to an older one and a half-built one with less gate space?

I think American would only need the nine new gates at T4 if this was to take place. T2 and T3 would close. Delta would instantly get the gates they need at T8. It would be a win/win situation for both airlines but I don't see it happening.
 
Mir
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:33 pm

Quoting klkla (Reply 6):
I think American would only need the nine new gates at T4 if this was to take place. T2 and T3 would close. Delta would instantly get the gates they need at T8. It would be a win/win situation for both airlines but I don't see it happening.

It wouldn't be a win for AA - they can't run their JFK operation with nine gates, even if they scaled it down somewhat. They'd have to really draw down at the airport in order to fit into T4.

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PIEAvantiP180
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:08 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):

Well we do know that DL will get a few more gates in T4, i believe they will have 12-15 all together in T4. Plus if they decide to finish building out and make an RJ concourse at the end of the pier it would take care all of AA needs since they run a much smaller operation at JFK then DL does. I don't believe that this will happen at all just an opinion on how it could be done. This was one of the T4 renderings that they accidentally released into the press that was later pulled down, i was lucky enough to save it before it disapeared.



[Edited 2012-11-16 10:10:10]
 
LONGisland89
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:56 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):
why would DL want to juat abandon a half-built terminal into which they've sunk a lot of money.

Not to mention...why would AA want to abandon their half built terminal into which they sank even more money.
 
ldvaviation
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:11 pm

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 9):
Not to mention...why would AA want to abandon their half built terminal into which they sank even more money.

And, on which (T8), AA owes less money than they would have to cover in increased rents at T4.

By the end of this phase of construction on T4, there will be more debt on T4 than T8.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:30 pm

Guys, I'm just mentioning the rumor.

What is fact is that the connector stopped being built mid construction. The pier is there on T4 for it... they just built a wall instead.

Something made them change course in an unusual way
 
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jaybird
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:58 pm

Wow .. strange to see that picture of JFK without the Pan Am rotunda ..
 
delta2ual
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:44 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
Told you! I want credit for calling this one over a month ago. haha

Actually, this was mentioned last month on the Facebook page of Save the PanAm Worldport. I thought it was common knowledge.
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jetlanta
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:01 am

The cost of the connector can be better spent on further investments in T4. That pretty much says it all. Read into it what you will.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:35 am

Quoting klkla (Reply 6):
I think American would only need the nine new gates at T4 if this was to take place. T2 and T3 would close. Delta would instantly get the gates they need at T8. It would be a win/win situation for both airlines but I don't see it happening.

minus the fact that Delta would have to build T8 all the way out.....and still end up with less gates than they have at T2/3
Oh and AA would need (at least) all of T4B

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):

uhh... no? Delta was never trying to make JFK into EWR. JFK's domestic network will stay pretty much right where it is for the future....

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 14):

rocket science......
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STT757
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:59 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 15):
Delta was never trying to make JFK into EWR. JFK's domestic network will stay pretty much right where it is for the future...

I can remember a direct quote from Leo Mullin during the first attempt at the JFK project that DL was going to "replicate what CO has done with their EWR hub". I've been looking for that article this morning but I'm having trouble finding it, I remember discussing it on here.

Here's what I did find,

Quote:
"Continental is a worthy opponent and has done a nice job at Newark," Mullin said. "But we feel the expansion opportunity is greater at JFK because Newark and LaGuardia are (physically) constrained."
http://www2.airliners.net/aviation-f...general_aviation/read.main/308905/
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delta2ual
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 16):
I can remember a direct quote from Leo Mullin during the first attempt at the JFK project that DL was going to "replicate what CO has done with their EWR hub". I've been looking for that article this morning but I'm having trouble finding it, I remember discussing it on here.

There have been 2 CEO's since Mr. Mullin; I would hardly take what he said years ago as indicative of what DL's plans are now. He also thought hourly service to all major cities from ATL was key to success too (DFW,PHL,LGA,ORD,EWR,BOS, DCA, etc.). Does anyone remember SkyDeli? He was wrong on many accounts and some would say led DL to BK (well he and his other cronies).

Back to NYC and DL's strategy, I think the leaders of DL now see NYC for what it is: JFK for international, with connecting service to many "spokes" and LGA with service to as many cities as will support it, within perimeter. I don't think the current DL leadership have any delusions to think they can replicate what UA has at EWR. People forget how may folks thought CO was crazy for building up EWR when they began the buildup; the thinking then was "why EWR?" Clearly, it was a brilliant move (along with other initiatives CO achieved under Bethune). They really turned themselves around and now UA is benefitting from it.

And why in the world would AA ever let their Terminal 8 go to DL? That is one beautiful terminal! The only way I could see that happening would be if AA merged with JetBlue and got terminals 5/6.
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justplanenutz
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:26 pm

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 17):
The only way I could see that happening would be if AA merged with JetBlue and got terminals 5/6.

A physical connection to T5 and a closer relationship with B6 (merger or codeshare) would be the only advantage to AA in swapping. Perhaps if BA said "no way, no how" to co-locating in an expanded T8 that might help too.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JFK T2 To T4 Walkway Plans Scrapped

Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:49 pm

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 17):
Back to NYC and DL's strategy, I think the leaders of DL now see NYC for what it is: JFK for international, with connecting service to many "spokes" and LGA with service to as many cities as will support it, within perimeter. I don't think the current DL leadership have any delusions to think they can replicate what UA has at EWR. People forget how may folks thought CO was crazy for building up EWR when they began the buildup; the thinking then was "why EWR?" Clearly, it was a brilliant move (along with other initiatives CO achieved under Bethune). They really turned themselves around and now UA is benefitting from it.

That's interesting, because when they branded their hub at JFK just a few years ago, that wasn't their plan. Seems like Delta's plan for JFK and NYC changes frequently. Hopefully this one works for them. They seem to be in a good place now