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3rdGen
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Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:17 pm

Just wondering, which large(ish) airlines have no aircraft from one of the major two manufacturers, Airbus or Boeing?

The only ones that come to mind, and I'm not sure if I'm correct but:

American (Boeing only? No more A300s)
Iberia?

And low cost carriers don't count either, because almost all of them fly a single manufacturer.

[Edited 2012-11-16 10:46:55]
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PlymSpotter
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:26 pm

Quoting 3rdGen (Thread starter):
And low cost carriers don't count either, because almost all of them fly a single manufacturer.

That does seem slightly odd, considering it's single manufacturer fleets that you are asking for.

Others which come to mind:

TAP
Aer Lingus
Finnair
El Al
RAM
Icelandair

If you discount those also operating BAe, Bombardier or Embraer aircraft under the main brand, there are many more.


Dan  
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Stitch
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:31 pm

American currently doesn't have any Airbus planes, but that will be changing in the years ahead (doubly so if they merge with US Airways).

I don't know if you'd consider them "large", but Alaska Airlines only flies Boeing.

And I believe you would consider Southwest and Ryanair to be large and they're all-Boeing. As is easyjet (all Airbus).

[Edited 2012-11-16 10:32:20]
 
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3rdGen
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:32 pm

No, what I am asking for is fleets with either: no boeing aircraft, or no airbus aircraft. i.e. American Airlines, which contains MDs and Boeings (although they have airbus on order). There are very few large airlines that lack either an Airbus or Boeing type.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
And I believe you would consider Southwest and Ryanair to be large and they're all-Boeing. As is easyjet (all Airbus).

Ya its easy with the LCCs, because they usually only fly one type anyway, so its not hard. I was thinking more along the lines of a Legacy carrier with a number of different types for different missions, short/medium/long haul. American is the best example I can think of

[Edited 2012-11-16 10:34:34]
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leftyboarder
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:33 pm

I too was confused by the thread title; thought you were asking for airlines operating neither Airbus nor Boeing (in which case there aren't any, depending on your definition of "large airline"). Only one manufacturer out of the two; now that's a long list. PlymSpotter named quite a few.
 
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:34 pm

Alaska
Southwest
West Jet
ANA (I think they phased out their A321s already)
Ryanair
 
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3rdGen
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:37 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 4):
I too was confused by the thread title; thought you were asking for airlines operating neither Airbus nor Boeing

Ya sorry for that, don't really know what else to call this thread.

EDIT: added the "either" in the title, maybe that will help.

[Edited 2012-11-16 10:48:02]
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mogandoCI
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:43 pm

isn't JAL all Boeing ? LH is nearly all Airbus
 
n729pa
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:44 pm

Japan Airlines....no Airbuses now
Swiss......no Boeings
Alaska.....no Airbuses
South African Airways.....no Boeings?
Transaero, Kenya Airways, LOT , Ethiopian .....no Airbuses
Cyprus Airways, Air Malta, MEA .....no Boeings

Interesting question....gets the brain going!
 
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:52 pm

Quoting n729pa (Reply 8):
Japan Airlines....no Airbuses now

NH is retiring their A320s soon, (or already have) so they'll too become an all-B airline.

JS flies neither Airbus or Boeing

  
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Fuling
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:53 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):
Finnair

Has AY already phased out all their Boeing 757?

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 7):
LH is nearly all Airbus

LH still has quite a few B737 and B747-400 to get rid of first. However, LH have just recently started taking delivery of the new B747-8i, so I guess Boeing aircraft will remain in the LH fleet for a while yet.
 
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:53 pm

The largest one i can think of that doesn't operate either Airbus or Boeing is Flybe - they operate Dash 8s and Embraers only and have a fleet of about 70 aircraft
 
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:02 pm

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 3):
There are very few large airlines that lack either an Airbus or Boeing type.

I'd venture a guess that there are more majors/flag carriers with such a fleet than major LCCs flying just one type.

AeroMexico
TACA
Belavia
LOT
Swiss
Olympic Air/Agean
UTAir (A321 on order)
Gulf Air (788 on order)
Air Mauritius
Yemenia
MEA
Ethiopian (350 on order)
Kenya Airways
Brussels Airlines (737s wfu)
Transaero
Air Malta
Cyprus Airways

For every carrier with a new manufacturer on order, I can think of another which is going to a one manufacturer fleet.


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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting Fuling (Reply 10):
Has AY already phased out all their Boeing 757?

Good point, was thinking they were operated by Air Finland, but they are no longer around.


Dan 
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 7):
LH is nearly all Airbus


LH is the launch customer for the 747-8I, so "nearly" doesn't count.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 7):
isn't JAL all Boeing ?

Yep, if you count the MD-90s they inherited from JAS as Boeing.

Quoting n729pa (Reply 8):
South African Airways.....no Boeings?

They fly the 737-800.
 
bjorn14
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:07 pm

Widerøe neither A or B only Bombardier

Flybe neither A or B only Embraer & Bombardier
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Horstroad
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:08 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 7):
LH is nearly all Airbus

LH has 221 Airbus and 70 Boeing. that´s 3.1 : 1, I wouldn´t call that 'nearly all airbus'
 
Fuling
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:14 pm

Jetstar could be put in if we include LCC, however they have B787 on order.
 
Caspian27
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:15 pm

Probably not what you're thinking of, but regional airlines can be quite large and don't possess either Boeing or Airbus equipment. OO for example has over 320 airframes, all Bombardier or Embraer.
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flyingalex
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:48 pm

COPA in Panama has a whole lot of Boeing 737NGs, a couple Embraers, but no Airbus aircraft.
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:03 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 7):
LH is nearly all Airbus

You must be joking! In addition to the 737s and 747s of LH mainline that have already been pointed out, their wholly owned subsidiaries operate one of the most varied fleets of western airliners that you can find. ATRs, Avros, Boeings, Bombardiers/Canadairs, Embraers, Fokkers, MDs... they have them all.
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mogandoCI
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:19 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 20):
You must be joking! In addition to the 737s and 747s of LH mainline that have already been pointed out, their wholly owned subsidiaries operate one of the most varied fleets of western airliners that you can find. ATRs, Avros, Boeings, Bombardiers/Canadairs, Embraers, Fokkers, MDs... they have them all.

Really ... you're counting cargo divisions now ?

LH mainline is ~75% Airbus so calling it "mostly Airbus" isn't too stretching it. LH+OS+LX probably increases the Airbus ratio even further.
 
flyingalex
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 21):
LH mainline is ~75% Airbus so calling it "mostly Airbus" isn't too stretching it.

I think the reason people are disagreeing so strongly is that the absolute numbers involved are so large.

On LH mainline, there about 220 Airbus aircraft vs. over 70 Boeing aircraft.

That does make LH a "mostly Airbus" airline, but it makes them irrelevant to this thread because - after all - they operate a sub-fleet of Boeings that is larger than most airlines' total fleet.
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aloges
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 21):
Really ... you're counting cargo divisions now ?

Since LH Cargo is a wholly owned subsidiary, I counted it - that shouldn't be

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 21):
stretching it

too far for someone who considers a fleet with 25% Boeing aircraft in it to be

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 7):
nearly all Airbus



[Edited 2012-11-16 13:35:54]
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mogandoCI
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:47 pm

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 22):
That does make LH a "mostly Airbus" airline, but it makes them irrelevant to this thread because - after all - they operate a sub-fleet of Boeings that is larger than most airlines' total fleet.

Then at what point is "mostly" a suitable descriptor ? 90%? 95%?

UA mainline is "only" 78% Boeing, so I guess you can't call it "mostly Boeing" either.
 
flyPBA
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:57 pm

y'all are forgetting SkyWest/ExpressJet ...
 
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:05 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 24):
Then at what point is "mostly" a suitable descriptor ? 90%? 95%?

Technically 50.000000001% and above  
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UALWN
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:25 pm

IB doesn't fly any Boeing. Neither do VY or U2.
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/380
 
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:22 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 24):
Then at what point is "mostly" a suitable descriptor ? 90%? 95%?

"Mostly" is far from the same as "nearly all", your use of which was the reason for my strong disagreement in the first place. I'll happily agree with "mostly".

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 26):
Technically 50.000000001% and above

Interesting, we do have a "smirk" smily.   
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blueflyer
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:34 pm

By my book, flybe is pretty large, certainly larger than some of the other airlines already mentioned, and it has no aircraft from Airbus and Boeing.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 12):
Brussels Airlines (737s wfu)

All the 737s are out already?

Quoting aloges (Reply 23):
Since LH Cargo is a wholly owned subsidiary, I counted it

Perhaps, but Lufthansa Cargo has its own AOC, as does Singapore Airlines Cargo, so they probably deserve to be treated distinctly from their passenger brethren, and neither operates Airbus aircraft.
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American 767
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:34 am

Those who live in France probably remember Air Inter, it used to be a French domestic airline. They flew mostly French built planes (A300, A320, A330, Caravelle and Mercure) except the Fokker 27 and the Vickers Viscount, but the main point is they never flew any US built planes.

Malev has never flown any Airbus model, neither did El Al.
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anrec80
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:44 am

There is also Air Koryo - neither A nor B.
 
hoons90
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:07 am

All Airbus

Sri Lankan Airlines
Aegean Airlines
Sichuan Airlines
Afriqiyah
MEA
Cyprus Airways
Onur Air
Aircalin
Virgin America
Mandala
Tiger Airways
Spring Airlines
Volaris
Ural Airlines
IndiGo
Go Air
Air Arabia
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KFlyer
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:28 am

Perhaps why not change the thread title to "Which large airlines have either only A or B planes". I feel that it is still a bit misleading.
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rotating14
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:41 am

What ever happened to the speculation of the widebody order from South African Airways?
 
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American 767
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:13 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 29):
All the 737s are out already?

I think they have two left, one 300 and one 400. They'll be gone early next year. By then SN will be Boeing free.
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PlymSpotter
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:03 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 29):
All the 737s are out already?

I was under the impression that they are being used as 'hot spares' but are weeks from leaving altogether.

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 31):
There is also Air Koryo - neither A nor B.

Well they have Antonovs but no Berievs   


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liftsifter
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:11 pm

Apart from the Ebrarer regionals, Royal Jordanian operates an entirely Airbus fleet, until the 787 begins arriving.
A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A342 A343 A346 A380 B736 B737 B738 B744 B763 B77L B77E B77W B788 E190
 
Metjetceo
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:27 pm

Azul is all ERJ, right
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:50 pm

Frontier is all Airbus.

Horizon Air has neither A or B.
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jumbojim747
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:54 pm

Virgin blue doesnt operate airbus
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rjm777ual
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:53 pm

Finnair still has their fleet of 757's, and ANA still has A320's, so they're out of the question. South African has some 737's, I believe they are -800's. I don't believe that Gulf Air has any more 777's, so they're all Airbus, except for their Embraer jets. Lastly, airlines like Adria and Aegean airlines are based on an all A320 fleet.
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matth
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:39 pm

Westjet in Canada has a fleet of Boeing 737NGs.

As an aside, Jazz Air has a fairly large (relative to other CDN airlines) fleet of Bombardier aircraft. No Boeing or Airbus.
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American 767
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:50 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):
American currently doesn't have any Airbus planes, but that will be changing in the years ahead

This will change already in one year from now, even if AA doesn't merge with US or B6. The first A319 or A321 is expected end of 2013. American will have remained Airbus free only for four years, from 2009 to 2013.

Jet Blue flies the A320 and the ERJ (170 or 190 not sure which, I know it's one of the two) but no Boeing.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 39):
Horizon Air has neither A or B.

That's a regional subsidiary of Alaska.
Because if I follow your reasoning, then one could say American Eagle has neither A or B.

TWA has never flown any Airbus, however they did consider seriously the A330 for long hauls and the A318 for short hauls.

Delta wouldn't be flying any Airbus plane if they didn't merger with Northwest. The only Airbus they ever flew prior to the merger was the A310.
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brilondon
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:58 pm

Quoting n729pa (Reply 8):
South African Airways.....no Boeings?

I thought that they had B737's.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:08 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 43):
TWA has never flown any Airbus, however they did consider seriously the A330 for long hauls and the A318 for short hauls.

Didn't they have them on order?

Quoting brilondon (Reply 44):
Quoting n729pa (Reply 8):
South African Airways.....no Boeings?

I thought that they had B737's.

Yes, that's what I said in an earlier post - 737-800s.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 30):
Those who live in France probably remember Air Inter, it used to be a French domestic airline. They flew mostly French built planes (A300, A320, A330, Caravelle and Mercure) except the Fokker 27 and the Vickers Viscount, but the main point is they never flew any US built planes.

I think they merged with AF. Air Inter did look seriously at the 737-500, but went with Airbus instead. I remember when they were bidding for a fleet renewal and did come to Boeing.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:09 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 43):
TWA has never flown any Airbus, however they did consider seriously the A330 for long hauls and the A318 for short hauls.

Didn't they have them on order? I think it was more than just considering.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 44):
Quoting n729pa (Reply 8):
South African Airways.....no Boeings?

I thought that they had B737's.

Yes, that's what I said in an earlier post - 737-800s.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 30):
Those who live in France probably remember Air Inter, it used to be a French domestic airline. They flew mostly French built planes (A300, A320, A330, Caravelle and Mercure) except the Fokker 27 and the Vickers Viscount, but the main point is they never flew any US built planes.

I think they merged with AF. Air Inter did look seriously at the 737-500, but went with Airbus instead. I remember when they were bidding for a fleet renewal and did come to Boeing.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
As is easyjet (all Airbus).

And originally all Boeing.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 46):
Quoting American 767 (Reply 43):
TWA has never flown any Airbus, however they did consider seriously the A330 for long hauls and the A318 for short hauls.

Didn't they have them on order? I think it was more than just considering.

TWA ordered 20 A330s (with options on 20 more) in 1989, 3 years before the A330 had even flown.
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/28/bu...a-order-to-airbus-is-expected.html

In 1998 they ordered 50 A318s and 25 others from the A320 family (plus 50 717s).
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...iness/1998344136_1_a318-boeing-twa
 
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 43):
Jet Blue flies the A320 and the ERJ (170 or 190 not sure which, I know it's one of the two) but no Boeing.

...and soon the A321 too. B6 flies the E190, but not the E170. They were actually the launch customer for the E190.  
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rjm777ual
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RE: Which Large Airlines Have Either No A Or B Planes?

Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:25 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 48):
...and soon the A321 too

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