skyservice_330
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Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 4:26 am

Does anybody think that whether in the near or far future we will ever see Air Canada operate the 777, 757, or 767-400. I would like to hear everybodys opinion.

Regards
 
C-GRYK
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RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 4:43 am

This has been discussed SO many times, there are some people (mostly uneducated in regards to fleet commonality and airlines buy planes which suit them, not which plane spotters want to see) who think yes, but the answer is no, it will not happen, in fact, you should know it won't happen, especially since the aircraft in question all are in direct competition with what AC already has.

Jeremy
Think before you type!
 
Guest

RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 4:47 am

Don't look for the 777 or 757 anytime soon. The A321s are on the way, and although a lot of pilots and passengers weren't exactly thrilled that Air Canada chose the A330/340 over the 777, corporate does not appear to have any intentions of dumping the big 'buses.

Some people around here seem to think that the 767-400 figures in AC's fleet plan, and corporate is looking at it. I haven't heard anything about it, but assuming its true, I think it's a tossup, given the fact that we already have -200s and -300s, and that we already have A330s. But if history is any indicator of the future, it'll be more A330s.

Air Canada appears to be moving away from Boeing, and this tendency has made many people affiliated with the company very unhappy. The only exception to this seems to be the rumored order of 717s to replace the mighty -9s.

Pat
 
Guest

RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 4:53 am

I completely agree with Pat, the 777 and 757 are not part of AC fleet plans. Concerning the 767-400 I am not sure but I think AC will look into this idea as AC have always been comitted to the 767.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 4:58 am

If Airbus can get the range of the A330-300 to be very close to that of the A330-200, they'll going to have a major seller on their hands.

Anyway, I think AC will likely buy 10-14 A333's for their Canadian transcon flights and flights to the USA.
 
AC183
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RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 5:13 am

AC will probably avoid all of these. The 757 would be essentially the same seating capacity as the 762's, so I don't see them buying 57's because the 767's have better cargo capability. The 764 is bigger than what they are interested in, and wouldn't have full commonality with 763 fleets. They don't really have enough demand for long-haul aircraft to buy 777's in addition to their 340's, fleet economics don't justify it, and commonality would be lost. The 717 has a real shot at getting ordered, and more 763's are on the way. I've also heard rumours of additional 744's, but I'm not sure what to think of that.
 
Guest

RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 5:24 am

I bet the reason Air Canada did not go for the 777X is because they probably wanted the Rolls Royce Trent 800 instead of the GE90, so they went with the A330-200/300 with the Trent 700.
 
Guest

RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 5:57 am

The reason that AC did not go with the 777X has absolutely nothing to do with engines, but with the fact that they have planned out an all Airbus long haul fleet. The engine choise would not have mattered.
 
cba
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RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 6:07 am

All of you who said AC will not get the 764, 777, or 757 are right. Aside from the 767-200/-300 (which have no real competitors from Airbus except for the aging A310's), AC is going to go all Airbus for fleet commonality purposes. They may also order the 717 to replace the -9's.

RayChuang:
If Airbus can get the range of the A330-300 to be very close to that of the A330-200, they'll going to have a major seller on their hands.

Airbus and Boeing already have aircraft with the seating capacity of a A330-300 with greater range, they're called the A340-300, and the 777-200.
 
flyf15
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RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 6:07 am

Airbus has created an A330-300 with A330-200, we usually call it the A340-300  
 
DaveT
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RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 6:43 am

I really like C-GRYK's answer! Direct and to the point!

Thank god that I have a large executive chair at my desk so that when I read the stuff about future fleet equipment and size, the springback catches me as I laugh with enormous hysteria! (my chair, desk, office, house, etc.... "not daddies place")

I remember once reading several posts about AC fleet speculation and a couple people in the string went as far as to suggest that "Emraerer RJ's will be bought for Canadian Regional if it STAYS with AC"....

Anyway, NO on all those pieces of metal! Period.... Forget this 717 stuff as well! Not going to happen....

 
Louis
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RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 7:26 am

Actually, I heard that AC is going to order the 717 because their wings are made in Toronto. It would be a political disaster if they went Airbus on that class of plane.
 
slawko
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RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 7:35 am

The wing construction issue is not the only issue. The 717 is very simmilar to the D9-30 and it is avaliable right now where-as the 318 is not even built yet for testing. AC needs to meet it's contract agreement with the AC pilots regarding fleet renewal and the 717 is the plane that may have the upper hand. This is really the only boeing that has a chance in the AC fleet other then the 767-300.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
Guest

RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 9:02 am

NO, they stick to airbus better . Since they operate most of Airbus fleet , why would they want Boeing products .. so to Air Canada keep buying airbus products because i think the planes suits them well .
 
ywg777
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RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 9:31 am

I doupt AC will ever get 777's in the futuure because Air Canada is a airbus airline nothuing else even though they are only ording 767-300's right now Airbus is the main type of planes they fly these days. 757's are very unlikely
YWG777
 
DaveT
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RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 9:56 am

Well, that's really great to know that the wings are "partially" made in Toronto Louis, but please note that the executives who manage there material requirments who in turn present it to Air Canada's Board of Directors who in turn authorize a spending of shareholders funds "could not care less where a planes wings are made"!
Nor is it political suicide.... Suicide for who?

717's are rampant and AC could have the pick of the crop just because Boeing would see it as a coup but the last 10 years at AC have shown a very clear business fleet procurement plan that to the greatest extent does not include the Boeing Company.

Quite frankly, I really don't know why Boeing even stays in Canada. (i.e. Arnprior, Toronto and Winnipeg) Must be a tax thing or export credit... exchange rate? Who knows?

Whoa.... got to get over the the Bucs - Lions game....
 
AC183
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RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:25 am

Don't know about Arnprior. The Toronto plant (the old Avro plant) is continually in question (it's about 60 years old now, it's the same facilities Lancasters were built in during WWII). The Winnipeg plant survives because of the workforce, the quality of work, and also because the low electricity cost in Manitoba makes it cost effective to build composites here (the same reason that airlines buy on the value of products and not nationalism also extends to manufacturers in todays world - the value of the work done is determining survival of these facilities). The Winnipeg plant is also fairly new. Politics also do probably play a role, not so much with airlines (although WJ's large 737NG order plays a role) but also because Boeing wants to sell new transports (and eventually fighters) to the government, among other services...

717's should look good to AC for several reasons. Delivery times is a huge issue with the 318's some time away, and RJ production booked up for some time, and AC contractually has to get other aircraft before handing CRJ's over to the regionals. Economics on the 717's look reasonable, too, both in operating economics as well as purchase costs. And although part of the reason AC has been buying Airbus for a few years is because it wasn't totally happy with Boeing, AC does want to improve relations with Boeing. Besides which, AC has been very committed to the DC-9's.
 
Samurai 777
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RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 11:52 am

I'm wondering if...is it possible that we'd see A318s in additon to 717s?

Before you guys start howling with protest, keep in mind that while both types are similar in capacity, each types have its own advantages.

717
-Delivery time is much closer.
-more economical to operate short-haul routes due to lower fuel burn.
-political advantage (wings are made in TO, as mentioned before)
-Quieter and more fuel-eficient than the DC-9-30.

A318
-Airbus cockpit commonality, as most of AC's fleet is Airbus-based.
-Longer range than the 717, so it can be used where load factors may not support the use of even A319s.
-Spare parts and engines are more similar to the A319s and A320s used in AC's fleet - lower retraining and maintenance costs.

BTW, I have read in Flight International that Boeing is considering an 85-seat version of the 717, basically a shortened version of the type currently in production. Wonder if AC would consider such a variant of the 717 in place of the BAe 146, only that they'd be mainline a/c?
 
gkirk
Posts: 23347
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Air Canada 777, 757, 767-400?

Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:09 pm

Definitely not!!! Air Canada at the moment is buying all Airbus and has A319,A320,A321?,A330,A340 aircraft in service.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!