spiritair97
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Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:14 am

It seems that, in an effort to conserve funds, DL has purchased 49 MD-90s from China Southern as opposed to buying more new aircraft, supposedly saving over 1 billion dollars.

http://airnation.net/2012/11/17/delta-buys-49-used-md-90s/
 
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fxramper
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:16 am

49 mad dawg 90s? Where will they deploy them primarily? Good job DL!   
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:19 am

Is this on top of the ones already aquired from other sources? Is this another batch than we've heard of before?
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United1
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:21 am

Quoting spiritair97 (Thread starter):
DL has purchased 49 MD-90s from China Southern as opposed to buying more new aircraft, supposedly saving over 1 billion dollars.

China Southern doesn't have 49 MD-90's....they bought quite a few from various sources over the last few years (including China Southern) but the article is wrong in saying that they bought 49 from China Southern

Actually did some checking China Southern has no MD-90's...DL bought the few (10-15) they had sometime in the last 18 months.

[Edited 2012-11-17 21:31:46]
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rojo
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:41 am

The followin airlines have MD90's (stored and active):

-Saudi Arabian: 29
-Eva Airways: 5
-Uni Air: 8
-Lion Air: 5
-JAL: 5

Is DL taking all MD90's from these airlines?

It will interesting to see DL taking over all MD90's and B717's in the market and become the sole operator of those 2 types...
 
N62NA
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:41 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 3):
China Southern doesn't have 49 MD-90's...

Uh oh. So where are they coming from?
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:46 am

This is just a content farm's sloppy regurgitation of the WSJ article linked in another current thread. It means nothing.

There is no new purchase of MD-90s. DL has (or will shortly take delivery of) 65 MD-90s: 16 of their own, and 49 from various other sources. The 49 used MD-90s came from the following:

- SAS (and various lessees of SAS)
- China Southern
- China Eastern
- JAL

The only other MD-90s that might make sense for DL to acquire are the 11 in Taiwan.
 
United1
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:48 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
Uh oh. So where are they coming from?

They are not coming from anywhere....DL has been buying MD-90's from various operators over the past few years. These are not additional aircraft these are aircraft that DL already either has on property and in service or has stored.
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fxramper
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:51 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
Uh oh. So where are they coming from?

Boeing/MD is reopening the mad dawg line.   
 
platinumfoota
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:09 am

Quoting fxramper (Reply 8):
Boeing/MD is reopening the mad dawg line.

Mad Dog MAX      
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fxramper
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:15 am

Quoting platinumfoota (Reply 9):
Mad Dog MAX      

Love it! MD90 NEO. Will give Airbus a run for their money.

This is confirmed? DL will purchase 49, MD90s? Seems shady.
 
N62NA
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:36 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 6):
The 49 used MD-90s came from the following:

- SAS (and various lessees of SAS)
- China Southern
- China Eastern

So this isn't a "new" move - I had read on here in the past that DL was buying up used MD90s. This is not a "new announcement" of 49 more MD90s in addition to the ones that have been announced, correct?

Anyway - it's good to see the descendent of the DC-9 will be in U.S. skies for years to come!
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:59 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 11):
So this isn't a "new" move - I had read on here in the past that DL was buying up used MD90s. This is not a "new announcement" of 49 more MD90s in addition to the ones that have been announced, correct?

I think this is more a compilation of all the other announcements of how many DL was acquiring, nothing more.
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Tommy525
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:00 am

How come only the 11 in Taiwan makes sense? EVA and its subsidiary Uni Air are said to be planning to offload its Md90. It is getting A320 and the first is already in service or soon to be. They may have been in talks with Delta already.
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:06 am

Quoting tommy525 (Reply 13):
How come only the 11 in Taiwan makes sense? EVA and its subsidiary Uni Air are said to be planning to offload its Md90. It is getting A320 and the first is already in service or soon to be. They may have been in talks with Delta already.

In it's latest filings to the SEC, DL shows 41 owned and 8 leased and NO more. I don't know if this is in addition to the 16 that were already in the fleet or included in those numbers.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
727LOVER
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:54 am

Quoting rojo (Reply 4):

Yeah. I think HA is happy with their 717s

Quoting fxramper (Reply 8):

I thought the term Mad Dog only referred to MD-80.

Quoting mayor (Reply 14):

Were the remaining 14 cancelled & not built or were they built & sold off before delivery?
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PHX787
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:02 am

Quoting spiritair97 (Thread starter):
in an effort to conserve funds

Olllld news, but it's pretty true, and DL does a good job at it.

Quoting platinumfoota (Reply 9):
Mad Dog MAX

   That would be amazing!
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mayor
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 15):
Quoting mayor (Reply 14):
Were the remaining 14 cancelled & not built or were they built & sold off before delivery?

My mistake.....the filing also shows purchase commitments for 7 of the a/c.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
MEA330
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:24 pm

Understand DL was never interested in the Saudia MD90's due to the different cockpit layout; but now that DL has committed to lease 88 717's the ex Saudia MD90's look more appealing as they have a common cockpit with the 717 raising possibility of having a 717/MD90 (Saudia) fleet.
 
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting tommy525 (Reply 13):
How come only the 11 in Taiwan makes sense?

The SV MD-90s don't share a common flight deck with the other MD-90s, and might also have some other spec differences. These aircraft might be a good choice for a small startup airline that wanted to focus on this one type - particularly since they are cheap and still modern, but not a good choice to join a large fleet.
 
HiJazzey
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:52 pm

AFAIK SV did manage to dispose of the MD90s in the end. Don't know where they ended up, though.
 
eastern747
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:55 pm

How old are these birds? and much duct tape is going to be needed to keep them together? Approx. rotations? Maybe DL can find a few DC-3's to buy and bring back into service: Not trans-con of course.
 
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Polot
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 20):
AFAIK SV did manage to dispose of the MD90s in the end. Don't know where they ended up, though.

They sold most (not all of them) to AerSale back in April. Now whether they are going to scrap them or attempt to lease them out is another question.
 
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viasa
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:29 pm

China Southern did only had 13 MD-90s in its fleet (former China Northern aircrafts). All of them were already in the fleet of Delta Air Lines (N953DN to N965DN). So the information of Airnation is absolutely incorrect!

In total there were 117 MD-90s build, 10 were already gone (crashed, damaged or scrapped). Of the 107 left, 50 MD-90s were in use with Delta, 10 more were registered with Delta but are not yet in service. Five more were still registered in Japan (with JAL) and I'm sure that Delta also will get the 11 Uni Air / Eva Air MD-90s. So, we have 31 MD-90s left, 28 are Saudia planes (and will not fly with Delta, because of other cockpit configuration). The three former Lion Airlines could also go to Delta, but I'm not sure, if they are in good condition (stored in GYR and CGK).

50 Delta (active)
10 Delta (inactive)
4 Japan Air Lines (active --> for Delta)
1 Japan Air Lines (inactive --> for Delta)
11 Uni Air / Eva Air (active --> for Delta?)
1 Saudia (active)
27 Saudia (inactive, some/all to be scrapped)
3 Lion Airlines (inactive)
10 gone (W/O or scrapped)
---------------------------
107 Total
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 21):
How old are these birds? and much duct tape is going to be needed to keep them together? Approx. rotations?



Are you referring to the a/c on hand with DL or the SV MD-90s...
What gets measured gets done.
 
krisyyz
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:44 pm

Will the avionics receive an upgrade before DL puts them into service? Is the MD90 SAT NAV/GNSS capable?

KrisYYZ
 
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:46 pm

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 25):
Will the avionics receive an upgrade before DL puts them into service? Is the MD90 SAT NAV/GNSS capable?

Whatever differences there are, the a/c will be brought up to current Delta spec.
What gets measured gets done.
 
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Joshu
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:45 pm

I recently shot one of the ex China Southern turned DL MD-90s at BWI:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joshua McGoun

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mayor
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:00 pm

The source of the article claims that they got this info from a contact at DL and that source insists that they bought 49 from China Southern. I think they need to get a different source.

[Edited 2012-11-18 15:00:55]
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seabosdca
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:23 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 28):
The source of the article claims that they got this info from a contact at DL and that source insists that they bought 49 from China Southern. I think they need to get a different source.

Anyone who chooses to believe a "source" after being shown how that "source's" information can be conclusively disproved with publicly accessible information is an idiot.
 
B757Forever
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:32 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 28):
The source of the article claims that they got this info from a contact at DL and that source insists that they bought 49 from China Southern.

Once the "source" completed his interview where he elaborated in great detail all the intimate secrets of Delta's fleet planning strategy, he returned to his normal duty in the guard shack in front of the TOC.  
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Flighty
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:35 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 21):
How old are these birds? and much duct tape is going to be needed to keep them together? Approx. rotations? Maybe DL can find a few DC-3's to buy and bring back into service: Not trans-con of course.

Combine the modern design with DL's maintenance and upgrading skills, & the M90 is a totally modern aircraft.

They could easily go another 20+ years. There is nothing chintzy about the M90 when you consider how deep Delta's capability is. They do not need the manufacturer to hold their hand. So they derive great value from the M90s.

[Edited 2012-11-18 15:37:09]
 
AA767400
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:49 pm

Speaking of the unique MD-90 - whatever happened to the former QQ/AA ships? I know there weren't that many in the fleet.
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Polot
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:55 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 32):
Speaking of the unique MD-90 - whatever happened to the former QQ/AA ships? I know there weren't that many in the fleet.

They all went to Lionair. One has since been scrapped and the other 4 are stored.
 
dtw9
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:20 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 22):
They sold most (not all of them) to AerSale back in April. Now whether they are going to scrap them or attempt to lease them out is another question.

The other option could be conversion to Freighter. AEI has reconsidered its previous position and now says they will convert the MD-90 to MD-90SF

http://www.aircargoworld-digital.com/aircargoworld/201211#pg35
 
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United_fan
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:55 am

I bet DL wishes they could turn back the clock . I remember reading that Air Aruba's MD90's were scrapped at a young age.
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akelley728
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 35):

I bet DL wishes they could turn back the clock . I remember reading that Air Aruba's MD90's were scrapped at a young age.

Indeed, that was a sad story. After Air Aruba gave up the MD90s they went over to a new start-up called Pro Air. Unfortunately that airline never got off the ground and the owner of the MD90s decided there was more money to be made by scrapping them.

Hopefully the parts that were salvaged from the scrapping eventually made their way over to Delta!
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:46 pm

Without getting into all the details, how much parts commonality is there between DC-9, MD-88, MD-90 and 717?
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FWAERJ
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:55 pm

Quoting akelley728 (Reply 36):
Indeed, that was a sad story. After Air Aruba gave up the MD90s they went over to a new start-up called Pro Air. Unfortunately that airline never got off the ground and the owner of the MD90s decided there was more money to be made by scrapping them.

Actually, Pro Air did fly. They were DET-based and used 737-400s, and the MD-90s were meant to replace the 737s.

The MD-90s never flew with Pro Air for two reasons:
1) An FAA investigation, brought on by...
2) NW's dirty tricks against Pro Air
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United_fan
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:10 pm

Looks like another is inbound from ANC.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N952DN
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ssteve
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:47 pm

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 34):
The other option could be conversion to Freighter. AEI has reconsidered its previous position and now says they will convert the MD-90 to MD-90SF

Interesting. For others who may have been confused, AEI is not Aersale, so it's up to Aersale... other than Delta & Aersale, is there any other MD-90 owner?
 
dtw9
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:52 pm

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 40):
other than Delta & Aersale, is there any other MD-90 owner?

Uni-Air/EVA and Boeing. SAS still owns the eight MD-90's they have on lease to Delta

[Edited 2012-12-01 10:57:58]
 
PHX787
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 39):
Looks like another is inbound from ANC.

Why is it going to MZJ from Russia?
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PMUA787
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:07 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 42):
Why is it going to MZJ from Russia?

The reasons for this routing thru Petropavlosk, Russia PKC is the aircraft is probably not equipped with HF radios and life rafts. Very common routing PKC-ANC for ferry flights.
 
PHX787
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:09 pm

Quoting PMUA787 (Reply 43):
The reasons for this routing thru Petropavlosk, Russia PKC is the aircraft is probably not equipped with HF radios and life rafts. Very common routing PKC-ANC for ferry flights.

Is this one of the ex-JL planes, I'm assuming?
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falstaff
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:34 pm

Quoting akelley728 (Reply 36):
Unfortunately that airline never got off the ground
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 38):
They were DET-based

I think they were the last scheduled carrier using DET. I remember reading about a turbo prop operator flying to CLE, but I don't know if that got off the ground or was even a scheduled carrier.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 31):
They could easily go another 20+ years.

Considering that NW got 40 years out of some DC-9s the MD-90 and 717 could be easily be around another twenty plus years.
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mcg
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:36 pm

I'm curious as to how much work goes into these aircraft once DL takes ownership. Obviously there is an all new interior, but do they do substantial work on the all the aircraft systems to get then to DL standard? Are there substantial differences in the condition of the planes between the different airlines that supply the aircraft?

Thanks for any info.
 
MD-90
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:23 pm

When Delta retires the last 738 from the fleet the crew will fly home in an MD-90.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:44 pm

Interesting finding out the history of the MD-90. It implies that any that do not find their way to DL will be parted within 7 or so years.  
Quoting platinumfoota (Reply 9):
Mad Dog MAX

   I love it!

Or should it be Mad MAX Dog?  
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 15):
I think HA is happy with their 717s

They are, but eventually they will look into another type as the 'economy of scale' of the Douglas T-tail fleet drops. But there is no rush with DL buying from WN the 717s. But HA will most likely be the first to hit 60k cycles with the 717. To be blunt, there were no *large* sales campaigns demanding a longer life and thus no funding of the testing to extend the airframe life. It is possible to extend the 717 duration, but at a heavier inspection cost.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 45):
Considering that NW got 40 years out of some DC-9s the MD-90 and 717 could be easily be around another twenty plus years.

   The MD-90 and 717 are simply not certified to the 100k cycles of the DC-9.

Cycle lives (cycles/hours)

DC-9: 100,000/100,000
MD-80: 50,0000/50,000 (extendable, IIRC to 80k cycles fairly economically)
MD-90: 60,000/90,000
717: 60,000/60,000
737NG: 75,000 (extendable)
A320: 60,000 (was 48,000 recently as in this September document)

Source:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-09-07/pdf/2012-22090.pdf

Lightsaber
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dtw9
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RE: Delta Buys 49 MD-90s From China Southern

Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:36 am

Quoting mcg (Reply 46):
I'm curious as to how much work goes into these aircraft once DL takes ownership. Obviously there is an all new interior, but do they do substantial work on the all the aircraft systems to get then to DL standard? Are there substantial differences in the condition of the planes between the different airlines that supply the aircraft?

Here you go