fun2fly
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What's Going On In CLE?

Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:38 pm

Parking
- What is the fate of the long term City onsite parking lot? It's crumbling badly.
- Haven't heard lately about the CIty purchasing the Sheraton and tearing it down for a new long term parking lot? That was something we heard from Airport management as a possibility.

UA
- They aren't pulling out as everyone on a.net predicted
- Few new destinations added: OKC, BNA, etc. Any others for 2013?
- Other UA updates?

Others:
- Frontier adding DEN
- DL added LGA
- Will WN remain or go all in at CAK?

Facility:
- New construction of the ATC tower updates?
- 2013 volume projections? Ohio just announced 6.9% unemployment so things are going in the right direction.
- Will the opening of Medical Mart in October 2013 mean anything to CLE?
- Onsite gas station by the rental car return center?
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:44 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Thread starter):
Ohio just announced 6.9% unemployment so things are going in the right direction.

and the CLE metro area has a 6.5% unemployment rate, placing it # 129 out of 372, lowest to highest, for the period ending September 2012 ranking :

http://www.bls.gov/web/metro/laummtrk.htm

I'm liking where we rank compared to many of the A.netter "darling" cities, but ignorant A.netters will continue to cling to the 30 year old image of the so called "rustbelt" bestowed upon the region primarily due to steel industry reduction decades ago.

UA opinion: substituting destinations similar to the way CO always did and getting a little publicity, beyond that, no news is good news for now.

Medical Mart won't increase CLE O&D to a measurable amount. CLE is in the middle of a huge population base more easily accessed by driving rather than facing the cost effectiveness of CLE being a high airfare airport and the overall increase in travel time from A to B via airlines, whether it be due to connections or security, etc... Probably the biggest impacts that generate relatively low O&D for a metro area it's size, except for the CAK alternative and to an extent PIT ((both airports advertise in the market)

Glad there's been a couple blips of new service from DL and F9, first such stuff in years
 
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n797mx
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:28 pm

I just flew out of CLE last week and through the Bravo yesterday and I can attest it it pretty dead there comparatively. I was there for three hours and only saw maybe ten planes take off or land in that period. IMO I think it should be a Class C airport since not many go in and out.

Frontier only added DEN to CLE because WN moved into CAK with flights to Denver and were underpricing them.

WN should remain at CLE because I don't think CAK has the capacity to handle what Southwest would bring. Plus the flight students at Kent State University fly into there all the time and it would cause some delays they wouldn't like... (Not my fault )
Clear skies and strong tail winds.
 
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mariner
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:40 pm

Quoting n797mx (Reply 2):
Frontier only added DEN to CLE because WN moved into CAK with flights to Denver and were underpricing them.

Sorry, no.

The switch from CAK to CLE because Frontier has to have at aircraft at CLE for the CUN/PUJ services and it was expensive to split it over two airports. It previously had to fly non-revs to get the aircraft to CLE.

mariner

[Edited 2012-11-18 15:41:28]
aeternum nauta
 
N766UA
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:53 pm

Quoting n797mx (Reply 2):
IMO I think it should be a Class C airport since not many go in and out.

LOL because airspace classes are determined by the number of jets a kid can spot from the terminal in a specific period of time.

Quoting n797mx (Reply 2):
Frontier only added DEN to CLE because WN moved into CAK with flights to Denver and were underpricing them.

That actually has nothing to do with it. F9 moved to CLE to better compliment their long-term charter contract.

Quoting n797mx (Reply 2):
Plus the flight students at Kent State University fly into there all the time and it would cause some delays they wouldn't like...

I think it's more likely to be the other way around.



[Edited 2012-11-18 15:55:22]
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as739x
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:29 am

Quoting n797mx (Reply 2):
WN should remain at CLE because I don't think CAK has the capacity to handle what Southwest would bring



A whole concourse to themselves, 4 gates, ticket counter space as needed, no ATC delays. I assuming this statement was sarcasim?

WN with 4 gates, thats 40 flights daily!!
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
izbtmnhd
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:50 am

Quoting n797mx (Reply 2):

Hahaha. This is funny. Come to IAD at 10 in the morning and wander around the C and D concourse. You'll think it should be Class G. It's called banks.
 
ncflyer
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:15 am

I will tell you what's new in cle. Airfares, they are sky high outrageous. It used to be that PIT residents would make the two hour drive to CLE to save some serious change, Now it's completely reversed. I am flying To LGA from NE Ohio in a couple weeks, and if I had the time, which I don't, I'd literally save 50% driving to Erie and connecting back in CLE. I guess higher prices are good news for the carriers, but not great for us residents.
 
izbtmnhd
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:39 am

Quoting as739x (Reply 5):

If UA ever dehubs CLE and WN decides to expand there's not much room at CAK without building out. It makes sense for WN to keep their limited presence at the B concourse and see what happens. Also, if UA an WN walk out of CLE it would invite another carrier into the market in no time. It makes sense for WN to stay.

[Edited 2012-11-18 19:41:40]
 
as739x
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:51 am

Quoting izbtmnhd (Reply 6):

I don't doubt that. However, at present time CAK has plenty of room for expanded operations, unlike what the kid from Buffalo was saying.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:13 am

Quoting joeman (Reply 1):
Medical Mart won't increase CLE O&D to a measurable amount.

Two premier companies, GE and Johnson Controls said they are setting up the equivalent of "national salesrooms" in the MM, which is exactly the reason it was initially proposed. JC said it's extremely difficult to take potential customers to a working hospital - that the CLE facility will work much better for them. Given the price of even trivial medical projects, the added cost of a plane ticket to CLE for a facilities preview will be insignificant.

If things work the way JC and GE are planning, they will boost traffic - not mega-growth, but a nice piece of high-end business.

Just me: the MM is going to be far more successful that people expect.
 
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antoniemey
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:37 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 10):
Just me: the MM is going to be far more successful that people expect.

Now if only they could find a better name for it.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
N766UA
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:28 pm

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 11):
Now if only they could find a better name for it.

The Michael R White Center for Health and Innovation?

Or whatever his middle initial is...
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masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:05 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 12):
The Michael R White Center for Health and Innovation?

Sounds like the Baltimore-Washington Thurgood Marshall International Airport. Letter-sized paper isn't big enough to hold the letterhead. And still people just call it BWI.

MedMart = short, punchy, memorable, and reasonably descriptive.
 
highflier92660
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:16 pm

There is just something about the word Cleveland that brings out Pavlovian reactions in some people. Cleveland, the city who's sports teams snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and who's vibrant nightlife make the Australian Outback look like Miami's South Beach by comparison. Yet I will resist the equally cliché rebuttal retorted by we thin-skinned folks that were born there. I will not mention the international corporate ties, the Cleveland Clinic or the cultural scene including the Cleveland Orchestra that can play a Respighi's The Pines of Rome with the best of 'em. Oh I just did.

As for CLE, that temporary parking garage built sometime in the early 70s still stands. It is south of the Sheraton and may appear crumbling but is entering its fourth decade of use. That is remarkable for a structure the Plain Dealer described as temporary.

I have never heard anything about the city of Cleveland purchasing the Sheraton Hopkins and tearing it down. That hotel has been on that property since the 1960s and has been through many phases and renovations. At one time the top floor of the Sheraton was the home of a nightclub called "The Final Approach" and is now an excellent executive floor of rooms to watch aircraft take-off and land.
 
cle757
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:09 pm

The aiport is waiting for approval from the FAA to get a new customs/FIS among other improvements.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:30 am

Quoting cle757 (Reply 15):
The aiport is waiting for approval from the FAA to get a new customs/FIS among other improvements.

That's interesting cle757...can't help but wonder when a push for a new customs/FIS began. Seriously glad to know that.

On a more bitter side, the last I heard of a push for that (by a.netters anyway) was to get one in place during the 1 and a half year of preparation for the 12 week CO CLE-CDG service.
 
greenair727
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:04 am

Quoting cle757:
The aiport is waiting for approval from the FAA to get a new customs/FIS among other improvements.

That's great to hear. Two responses.

1. Why is FAA approval needed --- is it so they would pay for it or some other regulatory issue?

2. That's great for CLE. For LH, UA, BA or whomever, it makes the city a more attractive port of entry. CLE, IMO, could surely support service to LHR, FRA, AMS, MEX, and perhaps a few others. The economy, and UA's preference for EWR, killed CLE's LHR (and previously LGW) service. The FIS is probably the singlemost urgent need for CLE right now.

Quoting MasseyBrown:
Just me: the MM is going to be far more successful that people expect.

I agree here. Also, the MM was the impetus for the new convention center, which will definitely increase traffic to/from the city.

Also, the city is in the early stages of developing land on the SW section of BKL for office development--that may have the potential to increase demand at Burke for service some 5 or so years from now, beyond air taxi operations. It'd be great to get a scheduled carrier back in there--for at least for LGA, MDW, and DTW.
 
COSPN
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:45 am

CO now UA has some deal with CLE to have right of resusal for BKL they get the chance to serve the route before BKL can be used by others...so if airline B wants to run BKL-LGA the UA gets first crack if they refuse then B can start BKL-LGA
 
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STT757
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:27 am

My question is what affect will the energy boom in Northeast Ohio have on the Cleveland economy and airtravel, any?

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 17):
2. That's great for CLE. For LH, UA, BA or whomever, it makes the city a more attractive port of entry

While another trans-Atlantic flight would be nice, I think the FIS will mostly be handling flights to Cancun, Dominica Republic etc..

[Edited 2012-11-20 03:31:21]
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:37 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
My question is what affect will the energy boom in Northeast Ohio have on the Cleveland economy and airtravel, any?

Was anyone every able to verify the OKC flight was directly related to the energy shale boom?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
While another trans-Atlantic flight would be nice, I think the FIS will mostly be handling flights to Cancun, Dominica Republic etc..

Well, it at least takes the " you dont have a good FIS facility out of the excuse list". Once TATL rebounds in 2014, I'd guess there is some potential even if CLE has to waive fees or what not to entice someone to do so. Might be a good announcement in Oct 2013 when the MM opens for a 2014 start.

With the Sherwin Williams major acquisition in MEX, I wonder if that will be enough volume to finally see a daily direct flight vs. all via IAH. I know researched extensively under CO.
 
greenair727
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:59 pm

Quoting fun2fly:
With the Sherwin Williams major acquisition in MEX, I wonder if that will be enough volume to finally see a daily direct flight vs. all via IAH. I know researched extensively under CO.

A while back, AM had applied for and received operating authority on CLE-MEX. They kept this authority active for a few years, then finally let it lapse just recently, maybe around 2007. There's a lot of trade between Ohio (not sure what part) and Mexico; the Sherwin-Williams deal likely adds to the pot. Would be great to see a CLE-MEX.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:36 pm

I'm not sure how much, if anything, the Feds would put up for new customs and immigration, although they do pay for almost all runway and tower work. The last time CO was interested in FIS, the projected cost was $3-5 million. The current Master Plan shows a 2015-17 timeframe for some kind of Concourse C facility.

The airport's debt level jumped $50 million in 2011. Does anybody know what that went for? AirMall construction? The 2012 FAA numbers aren't out yet and the city doesn't release much useful data.

Edit: fun2, I'm glad you started this thread.

[Edited 2012-11-20 06:38:16]
 
fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:30 pm

Interesting read...had not seen the mid parking facility hotel before.

http://www.clevelandairport.com/Doin...-Business/Project-Information.aspx


FIS "Immediate Term" 2016-2025

D Connector 2026+ (aka probably never)
 
highflier92660
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:00 pm

The new Cleveland Hopkins hotel for the foreseeable future is under the category of a "wish list." This is a link from April of 2011.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011...ew_hotel-office_complex_one_o.html
 
iowaman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:21 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Thread starter):
Frontier adding DEN
- DL added LGA

Nice additions to the CLE market. F9 generally offers some cheap connections to the west through DEN.

Quoting fun2fly (Thread starter):
Will WN remain or go all in at CAK?

Even though it's a small station I bet it will stick around. CLE-LAS is returning in the Spring, which in May puts CLE at 14 daily departures. It's unfortunate STL and PHX have been dropped in the past several years and hopefully nothing else gets cut.

Southwest in CLE next Spring:

1x LAS
7x MDW
4x BWI
2x BNA
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:27 pm

One of Ricky Smith's goals has been to increase airport revenues from non-aeronautical sources. FAA CATS Reports for 2009-2011 say he's succeeding, but probably not by as much as he had hoped.

(All sales in 000's)
Food sales '09 $464 '10 $2,31 '11 $2,333
Store sales '09 $2,382 '10 $1.763 '11 $2,311
Totals '09 $2,846 '10 $3,794 '12 $4,644

This is pretty good growth considering the state of the economy and the fact that emplanements (mostly as a result of UA cutbacks) declined by 17% over those years - but I wonder if AirMall is pleased, based on their own projections.
 
Flytravel
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:41 pm

I'm surprised WN's website still doesn't associate CAK and CLE together. Many likely don't check fares to CAK.

I think WN will keep and grow CLE and move DEN service over to CLE, add MCO for EWY and SJU and future connections, and convert CAK as follows:

- indicates minus
CLE: MDW, BNA, BWI, LAS and +DEN, +MCO, +HOU.
CAK: MDW, MCO, TPA, BOS, RSW (seasonal), +FLL, -DEN, -LGA, -ATL.

[Edited 2012-11-21 09:43:43]
 
Flytravel
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:49 pm

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 7):
I will tell you what's new in cle. Airfares, they are sky high outrageous. It used to be that PIT residents would make the two hour drive to CLE to save some serious change, Now it's completely reversed. I am flying To LGA from NE Ohio in a couple weeks, and if I had the time, which I don't, I'd literally save 50% driving to Erie and connecting back in CLE. I guess higher prices are good news for the carriers, but not great for us residents.

How about FL's CAK-LGA flight? Or, WN on CLE-BWI-LGA while BWI-LGA lasts.

I've said it before but It'd be great if F9 could consider TTN-CLE-DEN, as fares are quite high from both PHL and EWR to CLE.
 
as739x
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:19 pm

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 27):
Many likely don't check fares to CAK.

Many as in who?

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 27):
I think WN will keep and grow CLE and move DEN service over to CLE

To now compete with UA and F9 again, why would they do that? They own CAK-DEN

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 27):
add MCO for EWY and SJU and future connections, and convert CAK as follows:

Not a chance! I have no idea why you think this. WN has always been and will continue to be small at CLE. They are at roughly 14 daily flights and always have been. Unless UA closes its doors in CLE next week I don't think you are seeing WN add any CLE service.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
iowaman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:10 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 29):
Not a chance! I have no idea why you think this. WN has always been and will continue to be small at CLE
Quoting Flytravel (Reply 27):
I think WN will keep and grow CLE and move DEN service over to CLE, add MCO for EWY and SJU and future connections:

Southwest does have a past in the CLE-MCO market. As recently as Spring of last year there was a Saturday only non-stop. Not sure how long it stuck around but it wasn't too prolonged IIRC and Saturday only DTW-MCO was also announced at the same time. There was also non-stop service until August of 2009 on CLE-MCO ( I believe this was daily and started sometime in 2006 or after).
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 29):
They are at roughly 14 daily flights and always have been.

WN used to fly to STL, too, and run 7x to BWI. I think they operated around 20 dailies ~ 10 years ago.
 
iowaman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:03 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 31):
WN used to fly to STL, too, and run 7x to BWI. I think they operated around 20 dailies ~ 10 years ago.

Yep, CLE was around 20 daily for years. CLE-PHX was also operated Saturday only for a short time. LAS has also come and went many times with everything from daily service to Saturday only and now daily seasonal. Worth noting as well is how MDW and BWI have always remained strong markets over the years (makes sense I suppose).

Here's some more CLE history (hope I'm not boring you guys on all this WN history in CLE):

- Service started 2/13/92 with 6x MDW 4x STL

- Additional MDW-CLE flight added 7/13/92

- 5x BWI-CLE added 9/15/93

- Service started BNA-CLE on 12/1/95

- Icelandair marketing partnership (not codeshare) began 1/22/97. This was the only "test station".

- CLE-LAS Saturday only added 1/14/99

Snapshots of routes out of CLE over the years following. Please keep in mind there may of been slightly less frequencies on Saturday/Sunday:

6/11/2000:

6x BWI
8x MDW
4x BNA
3x STL
1x LAS - Saturday only
Total of 21 weekday departures

10/27/02:

5x BWI
7x MDW
4x BNA
4x STL
1x PHX - Saturday only
Total of 20 weekday departures

6/8/03:

5x BWI
8x MDW
4x BNA
3x STL
1x LAS - Saturday only
Total of 20 weekday departures

2005:

5x BWI
8x MDW
4x BNA
2x STL
1x LAS (daily this time)
Total of 20 weekday departures

2007:

4x BWI
7x MDW
2x STL
2x BNA
2x MCO
1x LAS
Total of 18 weekday departures

Summer of 2013:

7x MDW
4x BWI
2x BNA
1x LAS
Total of 14 weekday departures
 
N766UA
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:11 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 29):
They are at roughly 14 daily flights and always have been.

That's not true at all. Up until recently they were up over 20 flights a day and had been since the '90s. 14/day is an all time low for WN at CLE.
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greenair727
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:59 pm

Quote:
Quoting Flytravel (Reply 27):
Many likely don't check fares to CAK.
Quoting as739x:
Many as in who?

I certainly don't. I support CLE as a hub. CAK actively tries to pull pax from CLE, thereby weakening it as hub--and thus weakening the entire region which would ultimately hurt CAK as well. I won't support that behavior. If a fare to/from CLE is really crazy, I may look at PIT, but CAK never even comes to mind.
 
skycub
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:07 am

Quoting iowaman (Reply 32):
Total of 21 weekday departures
Quoting N766UA (Reply 33):
That's not true at all. Up until recently they were up over 20 flights a day and had been since the '90s. 14/day is an all time low for WN at CLE.

Yes....and that with FOUR gates.

 
My opinions are my own. They are not representative of my employer, my union or my co-workers. They are all mine.
 
N766UA
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:34 pm

Quoting skycub (Reply 35):
Yes....and that with FOUR gates.

Yeah, it's a shame, they're not even close to half capacity at this point.

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 34):
f a fare to/from CLE is really crazy, I may look at PIT

PIT actively tries to pull pax from CLE too, haven't you seen the billboards?

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 34):
I support CLE as a hub.

So do I, but there's no way I'm supporting 700$ to fly to New York or 500$ to Boston. If UA doesn't want to give me a realistic price, I'm going to CAK.
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fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:44 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 36):

So do I, but there's no way I'm supporting 700$ to fly to New York or 500$ to Boston. If UA doesn't want to give me a realistic price, I'm going to CAK.

It is interesting to see what is going on with the NYC flight prices. When it was UA/AA, it was $1000 for midweek flights and $400-700 on weekends, but UA offered weekly specials for $140 nearly every week. DL entered and we were at $200 for weekends for a few months. Now it is back to high levels again...crazy. I know we didn't go to NYC last week due to the price and my friends went via CAK for $250 which I gladly would have paid at CLE. Clearly they have capacity if they are offering the weekend deals, not sure if the regular consumer is willing to pay $400+ to go to NYC via CLE.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 25):
Nice additions to the CLE market. F9 generally offers some cheap connections to the west through DEN.

What is F9's plan? They do not offer daily service (at least when I looked). Not sure they can sustain a following with 4 weekly flights. I know I am thankful they are in the market as I was able to grab CLE>DEN on UA for $230.
 
greenair727
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:44 pm

Quoting N766UA:
PIT actively tries to pull pax from CLE too, haven't you seen the billboards?

Actually, I've never really flown out of PIT in lieu of CLE--its something I might do if I had the six hours (RT) (plus gas money) to lose. Instead, I have postponed trips til prices become more reasonable. I know, not everyone can do that. But driving all the way down to CAK truly is something that doesn't enter my mind, til I see it on kayak sometimes when I search for "CLE" and they give you surrounding airports (including SWF for LGA).

I agree NYC for $1k is ridiculous. We need Virgin or something to fly CLE-JFK....

I guess PIT is much less of a threat to CLE as its so far away---just a few miles farther than Detroit.

[Edited 2012-11-23 06:49:37]
 
Flytravel
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:59 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 29):

Not a chance! I have no idea why you think this. WN has always been and will continue to be small at CLE.
WN can grow at CLE even while still keeping CLE a small station for them. HOU and MCO would link CLE to the new destination places they want pax to travel to via 1-stop, along with competing on O&D to major markets/destinations not over 1500 miles.

Quoting as739x (Reply 29):
To now compete with UA and F9 again, why would they do that? They own CAK-DEN

Ok. But, WN also links DEN to every major market (and a primary airport of the market) in the east and midwest, including MSP, IND, PIT, CMH, BDL, IAD and RDU, along with competing against two others from BOS and PHL (which both once had F9), and three from DTW. The other exception being CLT which doesn't get DEN when WN opens there.

[Edited 2012-11-23 07:24:09]
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4442
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 37):
It is interesting to see what is going on with the NYC flight prices. When it was UA/AA, it was $1000 for midweek flights and $400-700 on weekends, but UA offered weekly specials for $140 nearly every week. DL entered and we were at $200 for weekends for a few months. Now it is back to high levels again...crazy.

As the airline industry devolves to four players, you aren't going to see the discount fares of prior years. The competition will be very gentle, aimed solely at bumping up volume - not at stealing market share.

Personally, I think the govt. never should have allowed the Delta and United mergers. They just invented two more companies that are now "too big

Different subject:

On the possibility of WN growth, I think CLE will see DEN or MCI service whenever WN maxes out capacity at MDW
 
swacle
Posts: 363
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:42 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 29):
Not a chance! I have no idea why you think this. WN has always been and will continue to be small at CLE. They are at roughly 14 daily flights and always have been. Unless UA closes its doors in CLE next week I don't think you are seeing WN add any CLE service.

A pretty good breakdown of WN service at CLE was given above, but we did peak at 22 weekday departures in the 1999-2001 time frame with 8 MDW, 6 BWI, and 4 each to BNA and STL. For a while we had 1x LAS and 1x PHX daily, and for a short time (2 years?) we had 2x daily MCO. Now the PHX is gone, LAS is seasonal, and MCO is Saturday only for 4-5 weeks in March during Spring Break. We are normally at 11 departures during the dead of winter, 12-13 in the spring and fall, and 14 in the summer.

I am still holding out hope that CAK's ATL service transfers to CLE and we add a DEN and/or MCO in the future...

Don
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
PITrules
Posts: 2109
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:00 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 39):

Actually, I've never really flown out of PIT in lieu of CLE--its something I might do if I had the six hours (RT)
Quoting greenair727 (Reply 39):

I guess PIT is much less of a threat to CLE as its so far away---just a few miles farther than Detroit.

PIT is barely two hours from downtown Cleveland, and about 40 minutes closer than DTW.
FLYi
 
joeman
Posts: 651
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 36):
there's no way I'm supporting 700$ to fly to New York or 500$ to Boston. If UA doesn't want to give me a realistic price, I'm going to CAK.

and I'm driving when possible like so many others due to the exhorbitant CLE airfares vs. the value of a diminishing travel time savings between the two choices, especially if considering CAK or PIT.

Of course, longer distance travel is usually worth flying especially if you're OK with adding several hours of travel time by using connecting hubs vs. any uncompetitive UA CLE nonstop fares.
 
joeman
Posts: 651
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 43):
PIT is barely two hours from downtown Cleveland, and about 40 minutes closer than DTW.

Agreed, I've driven from near CLE airport to Pittsburgh in approximately 2 hrs. several times
 
N766UA
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:58 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 39):
its something I might do if I had the six hours (RT) (plus gas money) to lose

Unless you live way out past Sandusky there's no reason PIT would take 6 hours round trip. Southwest suburbs to PIT is easily doable in an hour and 45, add maybe 25 minutes if you're out in Lorain county somewhere.
This Website Censors Me
 
greenair727
Posts: 532
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RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:11 pm

^ok, point taken! PIT is not so far away--just shows that I haven't done it... But I'm sure gas + time + parking (assuming you take the train, taxi, or get dropped off at CLE) add up and make the PIT/CAK price higher. my only point is that I never really consider CAK an option, and also never think about WN as they don't appear in Kayak and other aggregate sites that I use to compare airfares.

Quoting COSPN:
CO now UA has some deal with CLE to have right of resusal for BKL they get the chance to serve the route before BKL can be used by others...so if airline B wants to run BKL-LGA the UA gets first crack if they refuse then B can start BKL-LGA.

That's quite a good deal that UA has got.
 
joeman
Posts: 651
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 46):
uoting COSPN:
CO now UA has some deal with CLE to have right of resusal for BKL they get the chance to serve the route before BKL can be used by others...so if airline B wants to run BKL-LGA the UA gets first crack if they refuse then B can start BKL-LGA.

That's quite a good deal that UA has got.

Nothing but the best for UA devotion, courtesy of CLE!!!   
 
highflier92660
Posts: 543
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:16 am

RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:36 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 38):
We need Virgin or something to fly CLE-JFK...

I couldn't agree more. In Delta's case the main connection in the afternoon for CLE- JFK passengers making early international flights out of JFK is a single 50 passenger Pinnacle CRJ, flight 4177. This flight originates out of MSP and if there is an inbound delay to CLE or any weather at JFK, those international flight reservations are ancient history. Last summer I was among sixty-something passengers attempting to board this 50 passenger aircraft to JFK after a morning flight had been cancelled. One wonders why Delta can't schedule an A-319 or Mad Dog on this route that Pan Am and TWA once flew with Boeing 727-200s and Boeing 707-320s.

CLE-JFK is a vital link for Cleveland passengers traveling to Europe now that there is no nonstop service to London.
 
klwright69
Posts: 2393
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: What's Going On In CLE?

Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:06 pm

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 48):
Quoting greenair727 (Reply 38):We need Virgin or something to fly CLE-JFK...I couldn't agree more. In Delta's case the main connection in the afternoon for CLE- JFK passengers making early international flights out of JFK is a single 50 passenger Pinnacle CRJ, flight 4177. This flight originates out of MSP and if there is an inbound delay to CLE or any weather at JFK, those international flight reservations are ancient history. Last summer I was among sixty-something passengers attempting to board this 50 passenger aircraft to JFK after a morning flight had been cancelled. One wonders why Delta can't schedule an A-319 or Mad Dog on this route that Pan Am and TWA once flew with Boeing 727-200s and Boeing 707-320s. CLE-JFK is a vital link for Cleveland passengers traveling to Europe now that there is no nonstop service to London.

CO used to do this route, along with IAH-JFK. Both gone.