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yellowtail
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AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:48 am

Apologize in advance if this was posted before, But I don't see it...

http://www.eturbonews.com/32338/alit...-announces-opening-four-new-routes

Alitalia has added 4 new destination including Fortaleza. Is there really that much traffic between FOR and FCO?
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
pqdtw
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:04 am

My question as well. If DL couldn't make FOR work with 757's offering connectivity through a major, (relatively) close-by connection point, how can AZ hope to make FOR FCO work? Is there really that much traffic between northern Brazil and Italy?

[Edited 2012-11-21 19:05:53]
 
Tdan
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:38 am

Italy-FOR is purely leisure traffic. Lots of Italians vacation in SSA, REC and FOR. I still don't understand any of these adds other than AUH given EY's increasingly cozy relationship with Skyteam.
We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
 
C010T3
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:55 am

Quoting pqdtw (Reply 1):
My question as well. If DL couldn't make FOR work with 757's offering connectivity through a major, (relatively) close-by connection point, how can AZ hope to make FOR FCO work? Is there really that much traffic between northern Brazil and Italy?

Yes, there is! Sex sells! Those flights to FOR carry like 90% male passengers looking to explore the thriving sex industry of the state of Ceará. Fortaleza is not famous in the US like it is in Europe, especially Italy.

[Edited 2012-11-21 19:56:59]
 
usflyer msp
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:31 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 3):
Yes, there is! Sex sells! Those flights to FOR carry like 90% male passengers looking to explore the thriving sex industry of the state of Ceará. Fortaleza is not famous in the US like it is in Europe, especially Italy.

Its true. Its kind of funny. I obviously not Italian (I'm not even of European descent) but last time I was in Brazil, since I was a single guy travelling by myself, everyone in Northern Brazil assumed I was an Italian sex tourist. Somehow an Italian-speaking hooker even ended up knocking on my hotel room door. It was quite the shock once I deciphered what she was there for.
 
VC10er
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:09 am

I have vacationed in Fortaleza and if youre "in the know" it is a fabulous place! The beaches, ski bunda, waterparks great Brazilian city. Fernando de Naronnha is the most beautiful place in the world and an ez flight. Also there are a vast amount of Brazilians that are of Italian decent. I hope it works!
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:54 am

Unlike what happens with USA flights, flights from Europe actually have a fair amount Europe generating traffic. Maybe it's the fact that Europeans do not need visas to travel to Brazil.
 
santos
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:09 am

Alitalia is to close Milan-Miami route, so the aircraft for the Fortaleza route must come from this cancelation!
 
797
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:34 am

Quoting santos (Reply 7):
Alitalia is to close Milan-Miami route, so the aircraft for the Fortaleza route must come from this cancelation!

Where did you get this intel? I didn't know they'd be closing MXP-MIA. It's actually rather surprising.

In the article they say the 777 will be used to go to Fortaleza, although I've been told it's the A330 they will use on this route.
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
 
EY460
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:12 am

Here's the news about the closure of the MXP-MIA.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/11/16/az-mxpmia-s13cxld/
 
leftyboarder
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:44 am

Quoting EY460 (Reply 9):
Here's the news about the closure of the MXP-MIA.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/11/16/a...cxld/

Not to hijack the thread, but MIA amazes me. It is a major center in one of the most populous states of the US, yet few Euro airlines can make it work. Didn't IB and KL cancel as well? I know LX is going strong.

Btw, if sex tourism is the reason AZ is starting this route, that is somewhat detrimental to its reputation, is it not?
 
jpyvr
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:01 pm

I live in Fortaleza, and although I agree with the other posters that many European tourists (especially Italians, it seems) come to Ceara for sun, sand and sex, there is also a large (and increasing) population of European (again principally Italian) immigrant/entrepreneurs who have chosen to live in Ceara. Beachfront inns along the coast, ice cream shops and restaurants in the city, luxury clothing stores - all seem to have European owners these days.

My Brazilian friends here often comment these days that in the past, European tourists were only interested in sex tourism in Ceara, but that today the mix seems to be changing and one can no longer assume that a European tourist is here with only one thing on his mind.

It will be interesting to see if AZ can make this route work.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:31 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 10):
Not to hijack the thread, but MIA amazes me. It is a major center in one of the most populous states of the US, yet few Euro airlines can make it work. Didn't IB and KL cancel as well? I know LX is going strong.
IB terminated BCN-MIA, but they still operate MAD-MIA. KL withdrew probably because there is no need for both AF and KL to operate into MIA, not to mention the fact that OR now has the AMS-MIA leisure market covered since June 2011.

Dont know what the fuss is about really, as I would hardly call BA, IB, TP, LH, LX, SU, UN, OR and AB "a few Euro airlines".

Add AA, and MIA is extremely well served from Europe !

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2012-11-22 04:40:49]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
andrefranca
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:38 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 3):
Yes, there is! Sex sells! Those flights to FOR carry like 90% male passengers looking to explore the thriving sex industry of the state of Ceará. Fortaleza is not famous in the US like it is in Europe, especially Italy.

It may sound offensive or funny to some! but it is true indeed! Brazil ONCE AGAIN is being flooded with immigrants, and those who can't keep their shops in europe due to crises will open it here! Remember how we were treated by spanish immigration authorities, this week Spanish PM was asking Dilma to accept spanish "high skilled" immigrants! what a joke!
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:46 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 12):
Dont know what the fuss is about really, as I would hardly call BA, IB, TP, LH, LX, SU, UN, OR and AB "a few Euro airlines".

Don't forget that AZ is keeping the FCO service.
 
777
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:23 pm

I posted this news some weeks ago!

AZ Announces FOR, EVN, PRG For W13 (by 777 Oct 24 2012 in Civil Aviation)
 
MAH4546
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:00 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 10):
Not to hijack the thread, but MIA amazes me. It is a major center in one of the most populous states of the US, yet few Euro airlines can make it work. Didn't IB and KL cancel as well? I know LX is going strong.

Few Euro airlines can make it work? MIA is second only to JFK in number of European carriers, so how exactly is that the case?

U.S.-Europe market sucks right now, and there are cut everywhere. MIA, as a major Euro-U.S. hub and one that also relies largely on a healthy European economy bringing in tourists, is going feel the hurt. MIA especially might further feel the hurt because it relies so much on Italy and Spain as key traffic sources, and those two countries are really hurting. What's really doing well right now is Miami to Germany, Switzerland, Russia (now with Aeroflot in the market) and Scandanavia (Norwegian announcement coming early next year).

KLM is gone, but IB did not cancel anything - it has ATI with AA and the 3w IB-operated BCN service was transferred to a daily AA operated service,

The suspension of MIAMXP sucks, but this opens the door for AA to launch daily service in the market, which it has been looking at doing. AZ's real problem on MIAMXP: despite having the only non-stop, it carries only one-third the traffic in the market, with AA/BA being the market share leader and charging the highest average fare.

As for Alitalia and FOR: Italy-Brazil is a huge market and Italians love the northern Brazil region. It's a no brainer.

[Edited 2012-11-22 10:03:23]

[Edited 2012-11-22 10:10:42]

[Edited 2012-11-22 10:15:15]
a.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:39 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 16):
MIA is second only to JFK in number of European carriers



Lets see:

MIA
Aeroflot
Air Berlin
Air France
Alitalia
ArkeFly
British
Iberia
Luftansa
Swiss
TAP
Transaero
Virgin Atlantic

TOTAL: 12

Source: MIA airport website tenant listing.


LAX
Aeroflot
Air Berlin
Air France
Alitalia
ArkeFly
British Airways
Iberia
KLM
Lufthansa
Swiss
Turkish
Transaero
Virgin Atlantic

TOTAL: 13

+Bonus El Al & Air Tahiti if you consider them European.

source: LAX traffic reports.


But probably more importantly, LAX leads MIA in nonstop seat offered by these European airlines.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MAH4546
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
But probably more importantly, LAX leads MIA in nonstop seat offered by these European airlines.

I didn't realize this was a competition?

It's actually impressive to note how nearly identical the lineups are between the two airports - though LAX can't seem to support as much of them year-round like Miami.
a.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:51 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 18):
I didn't realize this was a competition?

I'm just clarifying your statement of MIA being second to JFK in European airlines.

Thats all.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
airbazar
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:15 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 16):
U.S.-Europe market sucks right now

In what way? An article I read recently showed Europe-N.America grew by 5% in the last year making it the second or 3rd strongest market growth in the world by passenger numbers. Granted that NA is more than the US but with the US being by far the biggest market it's probably fair to assume that he US-Europe grew as much. Unless right no you mean November.
 
WROORD
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RE: AZ Adds Fortaleza + 3 More

Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:16 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 16):
Few Euro airlines can make it work? MIA is second only to JFK in number of European carriers, so how exactly is that the case?

ORD has 13 european carriers (14 if you count TK as european).

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