iah59
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United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:04 am

United will begin a 3rd flight in March, 2013 from IAH to LHR leaving around 8 arriving at 12 in LHR. Will this mean British Airways will step up and add a 3rd flight as well? As of right now both airlines operate 2 daily flights from IAH to LHR.
 
migair54
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:15 am

Quoting IAH59 (Thread starter):
United will begin a 3rd flight in March, 2013 from IAH to LHR leaving around 8 arriving at 12 in LHR. Will this mean British Airways will step up and add a 3rd flight as well? As of right now both airlines operate 2 daily flights from IAH to LHR.

UA970 IAH-LHR 20:30-12:05+1 B763ER D
UA971 LHR-IAH 13:05-17:45 B763ER D

I read that between Feb 4th and March 29th United will send B787 on the route, but i´m not sure what flight and what days exactly.

I don´t think BA will add another flight to IAH just to fight United, i´m sure they can do something else with that very difficult to find slot. Maybe the can upgrade the flights to B744 to add some seat. Right now both flights are operated by B777.
 
iah59
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:20 am

Well I work at IAH and everyday around 4ish a flight leaves on a 777 for BA and at evening time around 6 to 8 a 747 leaves for BA. I read in a article and heard from some United Employees that United is starting a 3rd flight around 8ish from IAH to LHR.
 
migair54
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:18 am

Quoting IAH59 (Reply 2):
777 for BA and at evening time around 6 to 8 a 747 leaves for BA.

According to BA.com they are now both B777 twinjet, i know that previously it was a B747, but seems than now is B777 only.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:43 pm

Where is UA getting this slot from, are they droppping a service elsewhere or is this s slot back that was previously leased out by UA?
 
jfk777
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:09 pm

Houston is getting some old United 767 replacing their Continental 777, what a raw hide of a deal. Suddenly ORD to LHR is getting 777, where did they come from ?
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:22 pm

Actually the aircrafts are refurbished, and are basically brand new to the passenger, ORD-LHR is 763 as well.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
ZuluTime
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:27 pm

LHR slot is coming from SAS who are reducing OSL-LHR.
 
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Polot
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:28 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
Houston is getting some old United 767 replacing their Continental 777, what a raw hide of a deal.

Those "old" UA 767s are actually newer than some of CO's 777, not to mention they have completely new interiors.
 
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drerx7
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:13 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 8):

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
Houston is getting some old United 767 replacing their Continental 777, what a raw hide of a deal.

Those "old" UA 767s are actually newer than some of CO's 777, not to mention they have completely new interiors.

Yep, recently flew one from EWR to IAH...very very nice. Same as refurbed 764s.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:17 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 9):

Nice, looks like IAH has been benefitting from the merger in some ways.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
iah59
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:02 pm

If the 3rd flight is packed and generate business I hope British Airways will bring a 3rd flight as well. Also Houston number one destination to Europe is London.
 
roseflyer
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:15 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):

Houston is getting some old United 767 replacing their Continental 777, what a raw hide of a deal. Suddenly ORD to LHR is getting 777, where did they come from ?


Those UA 767-300s are some of the most comfortable airplanes crossing the Atlantic. Full AVOD, flat business seats, 2-3-2 economy. Other than the 787s I don't know a more comfortable plane. The 767 may be getting older but UAs are great compare to old configuration DL or US 767s.

ORD is losing 747s so there are more 777s to spread around.
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VC10er
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:52 pm

This is an sUA 767, with 3 class or 2?
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STT757
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:55 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 13):
This is an sUA 767, with 3 class or 2?

IAH-LHR is going to three daily two class 763.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
777ord
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:01 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 12):
ORD is losing 747s so there are more 777s to spread around.

the 744's are going to SFO so the MX can be improved and ultimately be upgraded per our (UA's) $500m retrofit... Smisek isn't kidding about it being "Spectacular!"
 
gigneil
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:56 am

Quoting 777ord (Reply 15):
the 744's are going to SFO so the MX can be improved and ultimately be upgraded per our (UA's) $500m retrofit... Smisek isn't kidding about it being "Spectacular!"

Other than streaming video, what's destined for the 747 fleet?

During the $500m announcement not much was said on the 747 front.

NS
 
777ord
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:35 am

in all honesty, anything is better (in Y) on our 744's. But, the streaming wifi, new seats. hints of increased quality of catering.
 
vv701
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:26 am

Quoting migair54 (Reply 3):
According to BA.com they are now both B777 twinjet, i know that previously it was a B747, but seems than now is B777 only.

However this does nort reflect what is actually happening.

From 1 to !8 November BA194 IAH-LHR was operated on 6 occasions by a 4-class 772 configured either F12 / J48 / W32 / Y127 or F14 / J48 / W40 / Y122. On the other 12 days it was operated by a 77W configured F14 / J56 / W44 / Y183 .

On all of the first 18 days of this month BA196 IAH-LHR was operated by a "Hi J" configured 744. The actual configuration of the 744s used was F14 / J70 / W30 / Y177 on eleven days and F14 / J70 / W30 / Y185 on the other seven days.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:52 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
IAH-LHR is going to three daily two class 763.

From united.com...

UA920 763 IAH dep 15:25 - LHR arr 06:55 +1
UA984 763 IAH dep 18:10 - LHR arr 09:40 +1
UA970 763 IAH dep 20:35 - LHR arr 12:05 +1

UA921 763 LHR dep 09:30 - IAH arr 13:45
UA985 763 LHR dep 11:40 - IAH arr 15:55
UA971 763 LHR dep 13:05 - IAH arr 17:20


Alongside United's other LHR flights (all for first week of June)...

UA18 752 EWR dep 09:00 - LHR arr 21:20
UA110 752 EWR dep 18:25 - LHR arr 06:45 +1
UA28 772 EWR dep 19:15 - LHR arr 07:30 +1
UA8 752 EWR dep 21:00 - LHR arr 09:25 +1
UA114 752 EWR dep 21:45 - LHR arr 10:10 +1
UA4 752 IAD dep 09:25 - LHR arr 21:55
UA918 772 IAD dep 17:55 - LHR arr 06:20 +1
UA130 752 IAD dep 18:50 - LHR arr 07:40 +1
UA924 772 IAD dep 21:55 - LHR arr 10:15 +1
UA958 772 ORD dep 16:05 - LHR arr 05:55 +1
UA928 763 ORD dep 18:20 - LHR arr 08:25 +1
UA938 763 ORD dep 21:10 - LHR arr 11:15 +1
UA934 772 LAX dep 17:45 - LHR arr 12:15 +1
UA954 744 SFO dep 13:00 - LHR arr 07:10 +1
UA930 772 SFO dep 19:40 - LHR arr 14:05 +1

UA19 752 LHR dep 08:40 - EWR arr 11:45
UA29 772 LHR dep 10:05 - EWR arr 13:00
UA9 752 LHR dep 12:05 - EWR arr 15:30
UA111 752 LHR dep 16:00 - EWR arr 19:20
UA115 752 LHR dep 18:00 - EWR arr 21:20
UA5 752 LHR dep 07:55 - IAD arr 11:20
UA919 772 LHR dep 12:00 - IAD arr 15:05
UA131 752 LHR dep 13:05 - IAD arr 16:45
UA925 772 LHR dep 16:20 - IAD arr 19:30
UA929 772 LHR dep 07:45 - ORD arr 10:10
UA949 763 LHR dep 12:20 - ORD arr 15:15
UA959 763 LHR dep 15:20 - ORD arr 18:15
UA935 772 LHR dep 10:25 - LAX arr 13:40
UA955 744 LHR dep 10:35 - SFO arr 13:20
UA931 772 LHR dep 14:10 - SFO arr 17:10
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
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STT757
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 19):

Alongside United's other LHR flights (all for first week of June)...

UA is not using all their LHR slots, sUA alone I believe have 18 take off and landing slots at LHR. Plus the ones sCO brought to the merger. If the economy improves CLE-LHR and DEN-LHR would be nice (re)additions.
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klwright69
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:10 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 20):
Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 19):
Alongside United's other LHR flights (all for first week of June)...
UA is not using all their LHR slots, sUA alone I believe have 18 take off and landing slots at LHR. Plus the ones sCO brought to the merger. If the economy improves CLE-LHR and DEN-LHR would be nice (re)additions.

I couldn't agree more. However I think UA would rather add additional flights from their big international gateways instead. But DEN-LHR would be more likely than CLE.
 
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Schweigend
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:43 am

Does anyone know whether the sUA flights from Houston to London will use LHR Terminal 4, as all sUA flights from LAX, SFO, ORD, and IAD do now?

sCO flights from EWR and IAH currently use LHR Terminal 1.

Is there space in T-4 to handle three new flights from Houston? That would leave T-1 with 5X EWR only.

I'd like to see UA consolidated in one terminal at LHR as soon as possible!

Cheers,
Scottie
 
iah59
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:02 am

No news about being in one terminal.
 
aznmadsci
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:50 am

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 22):

I believe you got it mixed up. IAH and EWR flights utilize T4 and the rest of sUA flights use T1. The combining of all UA flights under one roof probably will not happen until T2 is complete. I had asked on another thread whether the refurbished sUA 763s would use T1, but it seems that all IAH flights will be out of T4, no matter type of plane.
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Schweigend
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:33 am

Thanks, Aznmadsci, I did reverse things! sUA flights are T-1 and sCO T-4. Owww!

So, then, these sUA 763s could go to T-4? I'm guessing that UA's division of flights at LHR terminals is more due to the destination city than the subsidiary operating the route.

If United started operating two-class sCO 77Es from IAD or ORD to LHR they could probably go to T-1 then.

Until T-2 is complete, as you say -- happy, happy day.
 
shanderawx
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:54 am

Doesn't UA recognize that there over 80 French firms in Houston connected with the petrochemical and geo-exploration industries, supporting an educated and frequently traveling group? These travelers are possibly switching to Skyteam with Air France the only non-stop service to Paris, and only 6 days a week. Locals feel the Paris flight was pulled out of vengeance for the city supporting WN at Hobby in their quest for international service from there and thus competing with UA at IAH.
 
iah59
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:28 am

I think it was dumb of them for taking Paris out and switching to SFO I think . Delta should move to Terminal D in Houston where all the skyteam members are at so that Houston can be Sky/ Star hub with Skyteam with Aero Mexico KLM Delta Air France and KLM. Star Alliance with Singapore, Lufthansa, United, US, Air Canada. Delta can make business at IAH.
 
greenair727
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:16 am

Quoting klwright69:
I couldn't agree more. However I think UA would rather add additional flights from their big international gateways instead. But DEN-LHR would be more likely than CLE.

Perhaps, though CLE-LHR makes more sense.
 
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par13del
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:43 pm

Quoting IAH59 (Thread starter):
Will this mean British Airways will step up
Quoting shanderawx (Reply 26):
Locals feel the Paris flight was pulled out of vengeance for the city supporting WN at Hobby in their quest for international service from there and thus competing with UA at IAH.

So the only one loosing money on this decision is the city on landing fees and tourist, was the route subsidized by the city or was UA doing this route for a profit?
 
skipness1E
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:39 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 28):
Perhaps, though CLE-LHR makes more sense.

It was dumped by CO back in summer 2009 after a single season at LHR after the move from LGW. It was summer only.
 
greenair727
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:47 pm

^That's true. With a global recession there was a global contraction of routes. The withdrawal of CLE-LGW/LHR had more to do with the US-Europe economy than the strength of this individual route. Since then, though, we've had the CO-UA merger which has changed things. But between DEN and CLE, CLE is the more profitable route given that it would connect two major business centers.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:03 pm

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 24):
I believe you got it mixed up. IAH and EWR flights utilize T4 and the rest of sUA flights use T1. The combining of all UA flights under one roof probably will not happen until T2 is complete. I had asked on another thread whether the refurbished sUA 763s would use T1, but it seems that all IAH flights will be out of T4, no matter type of plane.

This is the same process used in SAN. IAH and EWR flights depart from Terminal 2 and SFO,ORD, IAD, DEN depart from Terminal 1 regardless of which subsidy operates the flight. In SAN, sUA markets will move to an expanded Terminal 2 in 2013. Not really a big deal if the aircraft fit on the gates.
sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/
 
vv701
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 20):
UA is not using all their LHR slots,

Under the "use-it-or-lose-it" slot regulation (EU 95/93) an airline is required to use any slot in any slot controlled EU airport on at least 80 per cent of possible occasions in a Season (Summer or Winter). If it does not comply with this requirement the operator will lose its "grandfather" rights to that slot. It will be confiscated at the end of the Season and it will be reasigned to another operator for use in the following equivalent (Summer or Winter) Season.

Note here that in order to increase slot utilisaation at slot-bound EU airports (like LHR) there has been a recent debate in the EU on increasing the 80 per cent figure to 85 or 90 per cent. Although it has been suggested that 85 per cent may be a practical possibility it has been suggested that at 90 per cent airlines might start to have slots confiscated for reasons beyond their control.

So if UA do have unused LHR slots it is likely that they have leased them to another operator so as not to have them confiscated. However I thought that UA had themselves leased slots (from VS?). But I may be mistaken.
 
Tdan
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:01 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 29):
Quoting shanderawx (Reply 26):
Locals feel the Paris flight was pulled out of vengeance for the city supporting WN at Hobby in their quest for international service from there and thus competing with UA at IAH.

So the only one loosing money on this decision is the city on landing fees and tourist, was the route subsidized by the city or was UA doing this route for a profit?

There was zero subsidy from the IAH-CDG route as CO operated IAH-Paris for nearly 20 years. The flight was very profitable during through the Skyteam years and did ok immediately following the Star transition. It fell on hard times once European point of origin traffic began to decline in volume and average fare and as part of the CO/UA integration. CO funneled the majority of their western US CDG flow traffic via IAH since EWR carries so many locals. With the new combined network, CDG traffic can flow via EWR, IAD and ORD which are much more geographically suited than IAH. Despite the changes in flow behavior, IAH-CDG is still a large and very premium local market where a UA nonstop should work in an improved economy (it certainly didn't help that the route was operated with a significantly inferior business class product to AF...would have loved to have seen the retrofitted 763s on the route!)

It's a shame that IAH-CDG was pulled for SFO-CDG which has no chance imho. The lack of any significant flow opportunities to combat AF will be the route's undoing. The local US point of sale market is not large enough to sustain year-round service by itself, even if it is extremely loyal to UA.

Back to topic, while I'm excited about the increase in frequency on IAH-LHR, I'm not really sure of the value the additional frequency really offers. I get that it better overlaps BA's schedule and the late departure out of IAH is nice, but I worry about the incremental seats being added into the market with limited additional schedule coverage. I fly the route often and for years the flights were empty in the back, but full in business class. The LHR switch has surely helped fill the back of the plane with flow traveling beyond LHR, but it seems that the core market that makes the flights profitable are the local oil&gas guys who pay $5K+ for a roundtrip business class seat. If this market isn't growing substantially (it's not to Europe from what I've seen), then any additional capacity will dilute profitability. For example, instead of filling incremental business class seats with $5K local roundtrip guys, they'll either go empty or be filled with $5K roundtrip guys traveling to India or the Middle East which gets prorated over two carriers and ends up being less than half the yield of the locals.

I'd rather see these LHR slots used to resume DEN-LHR or to further compete in EWR where high frequency really matters. Just my 0.02
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LAXdude1023
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:01 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 31):
But between DEN and CLE, CLE is the more profitable route given that it would connect two major business centers.

Very doubtful.

DEN-LHR is 500% larger than CLE-LHR and DEN-Europe is 350% larger than CLE-Europe.

Traffic from CLE to Europe would struggle to fill a 757 assuming all people between CLE and Europe on a daily basis only use that flight. Taking into account market stimulation if the flight operated again, it would still be a struggle.

[Edited 2012-11-25 07:02:52]
It is what it is...
 
greenair727
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:33 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023:
Very doubtful.

DEN-LHR is 500% larger than CLE-LHR and DEN-Europe is 350% larger than CLE-Europe.

LAXdude--what are you basing this on?

According to the Global command and control centers analysis of cities (the folks that say "Alpha" cities are NY, Paris, London, etc. and "Beta" cities are Zurich, Madrid, Sao Paulo, etc.) (I think they rank CLE as an 'emerging' global city):

Assets in CLE are USD 223 Billion vs 174 for Denver; employees in CLE are 302,000 and in Denver 234,000. Revenue is about equal with 104 Billion in CLE and 103 in Denver.

There is no question. Cleveland is major economic center. If it weren't for its proximity to ORD and NYC, you'd see a lot of int'l flights.
 
gigneil
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:51 pm

Quoting shanderawx (Reply 26):

Doesn't UA recognize that there over 80 French firms in Houston connected with the petrochemical and geo-exploration industries, supporting an educated and frequently traveling group?

I am 100% sure they do. They are a massive multinational corporation with top-notch businesspeople.

Quoting shanderawx (Reply 26):
Locals feel the Paris flight was pulled out of vengeance for the city supporting WN at Hobby in their quest for international service from there and thus competing with UA at IAH.

Locals need to learn that huge companies don't have feelings.

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 36):
LAXdude--what are you basing this on?

He's basing it on the actual numbers of passengers flying the route, which are public data. Cleveland has zero demand.

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 36):
I think they rank CLE as an 'emerging' global city

And they rank Denver as a current one.

NS
 
greenair727
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting gignell:
He's basing it on the actual numbers of passengers flying the route, which are public data. Cleveland has zero demand.

Yes, zero demand. That's why CO flew the route for years when before the recession.

Quote:
And they rank Denver as a current one.

Then Fargo and Akron, too, huh?
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:00 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 36):

Allow me to be specific.

What Im basing my previous post on is the amount of people who travel between CLE and DEN and LHR and Europe. The numbers are O&D. Meaning that roughly 5 times as many people from travel from Denver with a destination of London than do Cleveland with the destination of London. Below are specifics:

CLE-LHR local market from 2011: 24,532 total passengers or 33 passengers per day per direction
DEN-LHR local market from 2011: 121,891 total passengers or 167 passengers per day per direction

CLE-Europe local market from 2011: 185,026 total passengers or 253 passengers per day per direction (of these 211 are bound for Western Europe)
DEN-Europe local market from 2011: 594,437 total passengers or 814 passengers per day per direction (of these 739 are bound for Western Europe)

I think what you are referring to in the second part of your post is the GAWC list of global cities. They rank both Cleveland and Denver as Beta - cities. Thats all well and good, but that doesnt translate to international O&D traffic. In the same category as those two is Rio de Janeiro and Perth. Both dwarf any thing those two can get from an international travel perspective.

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/world2010t.html

Another point you make is about city size which is irrelevant. Cleveland is around 2 million in its metro which is larger than Las Vegas or Orlando, but Cleveland has about 1/10th the international O&D as those. Even looking at other non tourist cities, Cleveland is roughly the same size as Austin on international O&D yet Austin has a smaller metro area.

Denver-Europe is actually almost as large as DFW-Europe yet DFW is 3 times larger as a metro area. DFW can support more European flights because DFW-India/Middle East/African is several times larger than DEN to those same areas. This underscores that its not about metro area.

++++Edited for Grammar++++

[Edited 2012-11-25 12:01:31]
It is what it is...
 
gigneil
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:05 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 38):
Yes, zero demand. That's why CO flew the route for years when before the recession.

You can throw around all the feelings you want. Numbers are numbers.

NS
 
Viscount724
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:05 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 18):
From 1 to !8 November BA194 IAH-LHR was operated on 6 occasions by a 4-class 772 configured either F12 / J48 / W32 / Y127 or F14 / J48 / W40 / Y122. On the other 12 days it was operated by a 77W configured F14 / J56 / W44 / Y183 .

On all of the first 18 days of this month BA196 IAH-LHR was operated by a "Hi J" configured 744. The actual configuration of the 744s used was F14 / J70 / W30 / Y177 on eleven days and F14 / J70 / W30 / Y185 on the other seven days.

Just curious what source you use for that type of information?
 
greenair727
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RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:18 pm

^^ LAXdude1023---thanks for the detailed response. Also, do you have a link for the O&D data?

Quoting gigneil:
You can throw around all the feelings you want. Numbers are numbers.

gigneil---who's talking feelings? that's the second time in as many messages that you mention 'feelings'. I doubt CO would fly a route with zero pax for ten years. Thats not 'feelings', that's economics.
 
RyanairGuru
Posts: 6554
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:32 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 42):
I doubt CO would fly a route with zero pax for ten years. Thats not 'feelings', that's economics.

Other than the economy, the other thing that's changed is the merger. While it is true that CLE supported flights for years (I feel that some on hear have conveniently ignored that fact) once CO could shift hub-flows via ORD rather than CLE, the case for CLE flights was diminished. MEM-AMS is another example of a flight that did well when it was NW, but with ATL right up the road it made less sense.

Similarly, if US were to ever to merge then it is possible that CLT-LGW/LHR might also go. I hope that it doesn't happen, but from ANet rumors it sounds like a lot of the traffic using the flight is UK-FL. That traffic could be served over MIA, with any residual via PHL or JFK.

The simple fact is that mergers change the economic case for routes. Without knowing the average fare and yield it is very difficult to point to the fact that 250 people a day fly to Europe and say that there should be a 757 on the route. It might be that the yields simply aren't there to support it without some connecting traffic.

[Edited 2012-11-25 12:57:10]
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
vv701
Posts: 5804
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:54 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 41):
Just curious what source you use for that type of information?

My own data base.

However here is a link to another source:

http://www.thebasource.com/flighttracker.html

Other airlines covered by sister sites to the above are DJ, EK, EY, JQ, KL, NZ, QF, QR and VS.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4496
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:30 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 42):
^^ LAXdude1023---thanks for the detailed response. Also, do you have a link for the O&D data?

Enjoy!:

http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation
It is what it is...
 
iah59
Posts: 469
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:57 am

RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:30 am

Of United makes money with this flight British Airways should step up there game and add another flight. More frequency the better.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3444
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:00 am

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 22):
Does anyone know whether the sUA flights from Houston to London will use LHR Terminal 4, as all sUA flights from LAX, SFO, ORD, and IAD do now?

The LHR terminals remain split by route. When a former CO B757 flew the UA130 IAD-LHR replacing the UA B763 as UA948 for the summer, it flew from T1 alongside the other United routes.
 
iah59
Posts: 469
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:57 am

RE: United Begins 3rd Flight IAH To LHR

Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:21 am

If United makes money on the 3rd flight maybe Virgin Atlantic should step in the Houston market and offer direct service.

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