zhiao
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787 And A350 Look The Same?

Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:00 pm

Is it just me, or for us looking at the sky will it be very hard to distinguish the types? I feel like the look very similar, except that the 787 has a nicer nose, and obviously is smaller.
 
sweair
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:11 pm

I guess the wings will bend like the 787s?
 
spiritair97
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:13 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 1):

I thought the a350 is going to have winglets like the a330s and a340s?
 
N766UA
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:14 pm

The nose section/cockpit windows on the A350 look very different. The nose is pointier and it has much smaller spaceshuttle-style windows.
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kc135topboom
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:36 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 4):
The nose section/cockpit windows on the A350 look very different. The nose is pointier and it has much smaller spaceshuttle-style windows.

Correct. Additionally the B-787 wing has a very different shape, esspecially inboard of the engines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bo...g_787-8_Dreamliner_N787FT_KBFI.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dreamliner_render_787-9.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A350XWB-941_ETIHAD_AIRWAYS.png

As you can see, the B-787-8 has a very different nose and tail (beyond the vertical fin) than the B-767-300ER, but are about the same size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boeing_787_size_comparison.svg

The A-350 has the A-380 style nose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A350xwb_nose_2009B.png
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:40 pm

At cruising altitude they'll probably look similar, but on departure / approach or on the tarmac they should easily be differentiated.
 
tonytifao
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:51 pm

787 to me seems way sexier  
 
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EPA001
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:56 pm

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 8):
787 to me seems way sexier

I saw the B787-8 yesterday from very close by when the bus at FRA luckily drove very slowly passed the B787 from Ethiopian Airlines. And I must say she looked very beautiful and impressive. More then I expected from seeing her in so many pictures and videos.

Hopefully I get the same opportunity with an A350 as well soon.  . Her wings are even more promising to me.  .

[Edited 2012-11-25 14:56:47]
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:21 pm

The engines and nacells are very different between the two. For those that cannot tell one engine from another, just look for the chevrons. Only the B-787 (of the two) will have them. The chevrons seem to becoming one of the features to identify a Boeing airplane in the future. The B-787, B-747-8, and B-737MAX all have them. My guess is the B-777X will have them, too.
 
aviateur
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:49 am

It's not like the 787 and A350 are the ONLY similar-looking models out there. ALL planes nowadays, pretty much, look the same. Sad but true.

When I was a kid, even from ten miles out you could pick out a DC-9 from a 727, an L-1011 from a DC-10, a 707 from a DC-8... Planes had very distinctive profiles. I feel bad for today's plane spotters. Airports are SO bloody boring compared to how they used to be.

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antoniemey
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:29 am

Quoting aviateur (Reply 9):
ALL planes nowadays, pretty much, look the same. Sad but true.

Not quite. 737s and A320s still look quite different.
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sonic67
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:54 am

"As you can see, the B-787-8 has a very different nose and tail (beyond the vertical fin) than the B-767-300ER, but are about the same size."

You can see realy see how much different the nose in the link below. Also the 787 fusalage is slightly larger.


http://www.google.com/search?q=787+a...t=safari#biv=i|4;d|lLV0sBxTn7Vi4M:
 
N62NA
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:21 am

Quoting aviateur (Reply 9):
When I was a kid, even from ten miles out you could pick out a DC-9 from a 727, an L-1011 from a DC-10, a 707 from a DC-8... Planes had very distinctive profiles. I feel bad for today's plane spotters. Airports are SO bloody boring compared to how they used to be.

Agree 100%

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 10):

Not quite. 737s and A320s still look quite different.

Not really, especially when you compare (as aviateur did above) to what used to be in the skies in the 1970s.
 
davs5032
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:57 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 12):
Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 10):

Not quite. 737s and A320s still look quite different.

Not really, especially when you compare (as aviateur did above) to what used to be in the skies in the 1970s.

I agree with Antoniemey. If you get past the fact that they both have one engine hanging under each wing, the two appear very different considering their similar sizes and the fact that they are used inter-changeably on/compete for the same routes. The planes' nose profiles, tail shape, engine shape, height off the ground, wing-tips, and even the shapes of the two fuselages are distinctly different, and allow them to be identified as one or the other from a very far distance in much the same way that you could distinguish past planes.
 
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:21 am

Quoting aviateur (Reply 9):
I feel bad for today's plane spotters. Airports are SO bloody boring compared to how they used to be.

This is what I tell to the MD-80 haters I meet every so often in the industry. Just wait 5-10 years when everything out there looks the same, and the Mad Dog will be sorely missed.
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:19 am

Quoting aviateur (Reply 9):
When I was a kid, even from ten miles out you could pick out a DC-9 from a 727, an L-1011 from a DC-10, a 707 from a DC-8... Planes had very distinctive profiles. I feel bad for today's plane spotters. Airports are SO bloody boring compared to how they used to be.

If you can't spot an A380 from all the rest.....  

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AirPacific747
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:09 pm

I guess we'll have to wait and see it in real life, but based on the drawings, the A350 looks really ugly.

The 787 is much better looking, but even on that plane, i am not too fond of the nose section.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:31 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 16):
I guess we'll have to wait and see it in real life, but based on the drawings, the A350 looks really ugly.

I wouldn't call it ugly, but I do think the 787 is a better-looking plane. Then again, I find most of Boeing's line-up better-looking than Airbus' (though I would say my least-favorite on an aesthetic basis is the 757-300 and the best is the A340-500).
 
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:43 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
I wouldn't call it ugly, but I do think the 787 is a better-looking plane. Then again, I find most of Boeing's line-up better-looking than Airbus' (though I would say my least-favorite on an aesthetic basis is the 757-300 and the best is the A340-500

I agree. The A340-500 and -600 are good looking.. But almost all Boeing models are good looking as well.
 
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:07 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 16):
I guess we'll have to wait and see it in real life, but based on the drawings, the A350 looks really ugly.

I like it, although I think it looked a lot nicer when it had its own nose as opposed to the grafted A380 nose. I certainly understand why they went the latter route though.
 
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EPA001
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:21 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 18):
The A340-500 and -600 are good looking

For me, when beauty is the only factor to be considered, the A340-500 easily beats all others out there. Even the ones which are not in service yet. But looks alone are not enough to be successful.  .
 
JAAlbert
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:22 pm

The 350's windows will also be a bit shorter and a tad wider if I recall - I'm not sure if you'll be able to tell from a distance.

What struck me about the 787 is how smooth it's fuselage is - very few rivets and such. It will be interesting to see how the 350 compares.

I do like the 350 cockpit windows. Very mod!
 
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:03 pm

Is this a fair comparison, friends describe the various birds on our feeders as 'little brown birds'? If you really know what you are looking for the differences are obvious. But I would not say 'very' obvious. Likewise two engine planes are not 'very' different. On the ground you can compare the size, close up you can see the engine chevrons, a little further away the various kinds of wing tips. The other things are pretty subtle to the uninitiated.
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lostsound
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:39 pm

Both the A350 and 787 look sexy to me. But for me most of Airbus's line up looks a bit better style wise.
All subjective though. Both companies make brilliant products.
 
jollo
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:52 pm

Alas, no trouble telling them apart at first glance.

Despite Airbus being "home team" for me, I'm afraid there's no doubt the 350 turned out much less sexy that the 787. On paper and before final design freeze it looked like there might have been some competition, but alas, "in the flesh" the 350 will have to compete on realiability and performance alone: the beauty contest is lost by a good margin.

I have to say, the chances for the 350 were not good to start with: the 787 turned out to be amazingly good looking, a solid contender to the crown of best looking airliner ever (still held by the A340-500 IMO).
 
N766UA
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:08 pm

Quoting jollo (Reply 24):
I have to say, the chances for the 350 were not good to start with: the 787 turned out to be amazingly good looking, a solid contender to the crown of best looking airliner ever (still held by the A340-500 IMO).

I don't know why airbus insists on such tiny cockpit windows, it doesn't help the proportions of their jets. I spent a winter working at UPS a few years back and the A300 cockpit windows looked like little portholes compared to the 767 and especially the MD-11.
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3MilesToWRO
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:09 pm

Well, we've had SP-LRA 787 doing touch-and-gos at Wrocław airport this weekend and, how to say it... Nothing special. Looks like any other Boeing, actually. Nice view, I won't deny, but just this. And those thin, pointy, bending wings don't help when you see the planform.
 
dfambro
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:22 pm

Quoting 3MilesToWRO (Reply 26):
And those thin, pointy, bending wings don't help when you see the planform.

Ah, taste is such a fickle thing. What I love about the 787 is those "thin, pointy, bending wings", except I'd call them those "long, slender, graceful and elegant wings"! To me they make pretty much every other previous commercial aircraft wing look plain and stubby.

From the look of images I've seen, the A350 wings have potential for similar grace. But, my appreciation for the 787 wing really grew after I saw them in flight from the inside, so it'll be a little while before I can do real comparison.
 
brilondon
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:09 am

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 6):
787 to me seems way sexier  
Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 10):
787 to me seems way sexier  

And real. While I know the A350 will eventually be built, it has not become real yet and I will not concede that the design is finalized.
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Stitch
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:20 am

Quoting brilondon (Reply 28):
And real. While I know the A350 will eventually be built, it has not become real yet and I will not concede that the design is finalized.

It had better be for the A350-900, at least, considering they're starting assembly of test frames.
 
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:24 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 21):
I do like the 350 cockpit windows. Very mod!

Aren't they the same as the A380? From all the renderings from Airbus, the windows have been framed in black to create the illusion of one continuous cockpit window frame. It looks much better like this but whether airlines follow suit is another matter. I guess it's almost an acknowledgment from Airbus that the cockpit windows are a little, ahem, less than attractive.
 
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:54 am

Quoting brilondon (Reply 28):
And real. While I know the A350 will eventually be built, it has not become real yet and I will not concede that the design is finalized.

For me - it is not that the design is finalized - it is that I've seen it in flight. That's what I need to see before I can judge one versus the other. Right now - the 787 hands down - but that is not fair yet cause it is not apples to apples.
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:12 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 30):
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 21):
I do like the 350 cockpit windows. Very mod!

Aren't they the same as the A380? From all the renderings from Airbus, the windows have been framed in black to create the illusion of one continuous cockpit window frame. It looks much better like this but whether airlines follow suit is another matter. I guess it's almost an acknowledgment from Airbus that the cockpit windows are a little, ahem, less than attractive.

Don't know why the A350 (and A380) need 6 cockpit window panels while the 787 only requires 4? Seems like a useful maintenance saving to reduce the number of parts needed.

A350



787

 
brilondon
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:20 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 32):
on't know why the A350 (and A380) need 6 cockpit window panels while the 787 only requires 4? Seems like a useful maintenance saving to reduce the number of parts needed.

A350

Would the four windows that the 787 has be lighter in weight that the 6 on the A350? This was one of the reasons given the 737 now is being built without "eyebrows".
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tdscanuck
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:34 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 32):
Don't know why the A350 (and A380) need 6 cockpit window panels while the 787 only requires 4? Seems like a useful maintenance saving to reduce the number of parts needed.

It's not a matter of need, it's a matter of trades. The A350 will have comparable viewing area to the 787. The A350 is using considerably smaller #2 and #3 windows...the #2 window on the 787 is *enourmous*...the nose-on shots don't do it justice. The upside is that it's got fantastic side visiblity and no post at the pilot's shoulder...the downside is that the #2 window is incredibly heavy and requires two extremely strong people or a crane to change.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 33):
Would the four windows that the 787 has be lighter in weight that the 6 on the A350?

Given that CFRP/metal is generally stronger than glass in a structural application, the 6 windows are probably lighter. Window thickness goes up quickly with increasing area due to the pressure load.

Tom.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 34):

Given that CFRP/metal is generally stronger than glass in a structural application, the 6 windows are probably lighter. Window thickness goes up quickly with increasing area due to the pressure load.

  

From a cost stand point however, 4 windows may be less complex to design and cheaper to install . . . while you have a more expensive windows, you have fewer stringers, doublers and installation drawings to release and parts to assemble and install.

bt
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CM
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:54 pm

The real problem with 4 larger windows versus 6 smaller ones (particlularly 6 smaller ones from a cab that is already certified) is the difference in development and certification costs. Certifying new windows is very difficult and adds a great deal of cost and risk to a program. Airbus made a conservative strategic and a business decision to go with the A380 cab design, even if it cost them a bit in terms of "beauty", which is very difficult to quantify and attach a value to.
 
Ruscoe
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:20 pm

In the air I think it will be the 787 wing will be easy to spot.

I am yet to see a completed 350 wing, but from what I have seen, the shape of the 350 wing does seem rather unremarkable.


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astuteman
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:52 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 28):
While I know the A350 will eventually be built, it has not become real yet and I will not concede that the design is finalized.

????

Most of the first flying A350 has been constructed and it is in assembly. There have been a plethora of images posted on this forum

Quoting dfambro (Reply 27):
What I love about the 787 is those "thin, pointy, bending wings", except I'd call them those "long, slender, graceful and elegant wings"! To me they make pretty much every other previous commercial aircraft wing look plain and stubby.

What's puzzling about that is that they are almost exactly the same span, surface area and aspect ratio as the A330's wings......

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 30):
I guess it's almost an acknowledgment from Airbus that the cockpit windows are a little, ahem, less than attractive.

Dunno why. The A380 is absolutely gorgeous IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygfIN11QUHE

I know it's now convention to deride this beautiful plane for its looks, but I remain mystified as to why people still insist that this spectacular aircraft is ugly.
Each to their own I guess.

Rgds
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:05 pm

I don't find the A380-800 to be an attractive plane except when viewed head-on, and then only because of those magnificent wings.

Then again, I only find the 747 attractive in three-quarters view from the aft when rotating off the runway. *shrug*

As to the A330s and 787s wing - the A330's wings don't have that upward curve which, IMO, adds a large amount of grace to them.
 
dfambro
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:19 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 38):
Quoting dfambro (Reply 27):
What I love about the 787 is those "thin, pointy, bending wings", except I'd call them those "long, slender, graceful and elegant wings"! To me they make pretty much every other previous commercial aircraft wing look plain and stubby.

What's puzzling about that is that they are almost exactly the same span, surface area and aspect ratio as the A330's wings......

Sure, the 787 and 330 wings would probably look really similar ... if you cut off the last 20 feet with a chainsaw. But taking the comparison out to the tip, the impression is completely different to me.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:04 am

Quoting astuteman (Reply 38):
I know it's now convention to deride this beautiful plane for its looks, but I remain mystified as to why people still insist that this spectacular aircraft is ugly.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, obviously, but for me it's a proportion problem. For the same reason that the 787-8 fuselage looks kind of stubby/fat (it's short relative to its diameter) the A380 is even worse. The nose, most of all, because what are actually fairly big windows are dwarfed by the *massive* forehead...it just doesn't look right. As an engineer, it's fine...as an aircraft aficionado, it just doesn't look graceful. It looks freaking big.

Tom.
 
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:44 am

Quoting jollo (Reply 24):
I have to say, the chances for the 350 were not good to start with: the 787 turned out to be amazingly good looking, a solid contender to the crown of best looking airliner ever (still held by the A340-500 IMO).

Best looking airliner EVER? The A350-500? No offense, but are you out of your bird?

(How old are you?)

The A340 (any variant) is a good-looking plane. The 787 also is a decent-looking plane (despite its too-small, fish-like tail). But neither hava quarter of the character or sexiness of SO MANY classic jetliners, from the VC-10 to the 727 to the 747 to -- do I even need to say it? -- the Concorde.

The 747 is a far more elegant piece of engineering than the 787. It's not even close.

Dude, not to sound like a snob, but you're out of your league on this one, I'm sorry.


- Patrick Smith
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
 
tdscanuck
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:18 am

Quoting aviateur (Reply 42):
The 747 is a far more elegant piece of engineering than the 787. It's not even close.

Err, no. The 747 may be a far more elegant piece of *design* (beauty is in the eye of the beholder though) but it's *far* from being a more elegant piece of engineering. To repeat:

Quoting aviateur (Reply 42):
Dude, not to sound like a snob, but you're out of your league on this one, I'm sorry.
 
astuteman
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:29 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 41):
As an engineer, it's fine...as an aircraft aficionado, it just doesn't look graceful. It looks freaking big.

I'm sorry, Tom. For me watching that video of the Malaysian A380 doing its stuff at farnborough, "graceful" is the only adjective I can find that fits. I can't see how it is anything other than that.

As I say. Each to their own

Rgds
 
flipdewaf
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:11 am

Quoting astuteman (Reply 38):
I know it's now convention to deride this beautiful plane for its looks, but I remain mystified as to why people still insist that this spectacular aircraft is ugly.
Each to their own I guess.

I think it does look ugly close to the ground but when its flying it looks like it belongs in the air.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 38):
What's puzzling about that is that they are almost exactly the same span, surface area and aspect ratio as the A330's wings......

I think the A330 looks even more graceful because of the slightly thinner fuselage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lowrM-780tg

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 41):
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, obviously, but for me it's a proportion problem. For the same reason that the 787-8 fuselage looks kind of stubby/fat (it's short relative to its diameter) the A380 is even worse.

I think the A380 and 787 both suffer from stumpy landing gear aswell, not nearly as athletic looking as the 757.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 41):
The nose, most of all, because what are actually fairly big windows are dwarfed by the *massive* forehead...it just doesn't look right

All modern airliners seem to be coming out very "foreheady" though. I dont like it.

Fred
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:04 am

Both are of the most generic configuration imaginable, twinjets with underwing engines. Of cause that makes them very similar and boring at first.

The 787 though has a very beautiful nose section, while the A350 imho is downright ugly at the front. Its predecessors A340/330 have a much prettier cockpit area. Airbus made a big mistake here. The 787 has the most graceful wings aside the 747. Here the A350 will be pretty close though, but its winglets will make it distinctive. The A350 possesses the nicer, sleeker and more elegant tail section, although the falling roofline on both doesnt look good.

That said, in my eyes the 787 is the nicest looking twinjet so far, dont really know if the A350 will change that, as its nose is so ugly.
 
brilondon
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:15 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 38):
????

Most of the first flying A350 has been constructed and it is in assembly. There have been a plethora of images posted on this forum

Until I see it in its final build, and I am not alone here, the A350 is just be a model until it actually is in the air, a really big model but a model just the same.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 41):
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, obviously, but for me it's a proportion problem. For the same reason that the 787-8 fuselage looks kind of stubby/fat (it's short relative to its diameter) the A380 is even worse. The nose, most of all, because what are actually fairly big windows are dwarfed by the *massive* forehead...it just doesn't look right. As an engineer, it's fine...as an aircraft aficionado, it just doesn't look graceful. It looks freaking big.

This is exactly how I feel, well put.
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bikerthai
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:05 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 44):
For me watching that video of the Malaysian A380 doing its stuff at farnborough, "graceful" is the only adjective I can find that fits.

Who said a big gal can't be graceful? Those in the States have seen it before. Look up Dancing with the Stars Kirstie Alley. There is enough diversity in the aviation world so everyone can be right. 

bt
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astuteman
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RE: 787 And A350 Look The Same?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:29 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 48):
Who said a big gal can't be graceful?

FWIW I admit it looks a bit frumpy on the ground.
But when she's "dancing" ...   

Admittedly I have a problem thinking any aircraft doesn't look good - that's just me  
Quoting bikerthai (Reply 48):
Look up Dancing with the Stars Kirstie Alley

Kirstie Alley ?      
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