brilondon
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Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:16 pm

Did Boeing or MDD have any part of the designing of this aircraft?

http://www.airliners.net/photo/COMAC...d=11bbc1e5cfa9a76aa4ac0f14c5adf7e0
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skyhawkmatthew
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Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:17 pm

IIRC the design started out as a licenced copy of the MD-90, and has subsequently gained new engines and wings.
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PlymSpotter
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Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:38 pm

They purchased the Boeing/Douglas tooling, it's essentially a warmed over mini B717 with new wings and engines.


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NASCARAirforce
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Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:43 pm

It almost looks like Airbus had something to do with the Comac C919 but with new wings.
 
IAHFLYR
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Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:54 pm

Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 1):
They purchased the Boeing/Douglas tooling, it's essentially a warmed over mini B717



Nah, can't be a mini B717 as it's missing the center window on the flight deck and no eyebrow windows.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 3):
It almost looks like Airbus



True, bus windscreen with the Douglas nose.
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PlymSpotter
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Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:02 am

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 4):
Nah, can't be a mini B717 as it's missing the center window on the flight deck and no eyebrow windows.

They were going out of fashion so got them plucked.


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hawaiian717
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:18 am

They're using the MD-90 tooling leftover from the McDD-Chinese joint venture, so it would probably be more accurate to think of it as a mini MD-90 variant rather than a mini 717. I also noticed that it appears to lack doors for the main landing gear (like the 737) and it has the wedge tail with the side APU exhaust like the 777. And it looks funny with the tiny CRJ engines on it compared to the longer JT8D, V2500, and BRR715.

Part way through the 717 production run the eyebrow windows were removed. So early 717s have them while later 717 lack them.
 
bohica
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:44 am

It is a reversed engineered DC-9 with a wing designed by Antonov. Besides differences others have mentioned, there are doors just forward of the engines and no overwing exits. Also looking at other pictures it doesn't look like there is a tailcone exit like the DC-9/MD/717 series.
 
rikkus67
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:11 am

Hey brilondon,

bohica is correct in everything he said. I might also add that the engines (GE, CF-series) are similar in type to those used in Bombardiers CRJ's, and Embraers E17X-19X.

China previously tried to build a Western-style airliner, by reverse-engineering a Boeing 707:


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IndianicWorld
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:38 am

Has it had many orders?

Looks quite heavy for its size though.
 
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:55 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 9):
Has it had many orders?

It had a couple of foreign orders, but they all have been canceled or put on hold.

Chengdu Airlines, owned by Comac - the manufacturer of the plane, has orders for 30.

Several other Chinese airlines have orders, but most are stale. It was expected that the program would run at least 300 airframes.

There are parts for 9 more planes ordered - some speculation is that may be the production run.
 
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n797mx
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:09 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 4):
it's missing the center window on the flight deck

Makes it look kind of Superjet-ish, don't you think?


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rikkus67
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:16 pm

Quoting n797mx (Reply 11):
Makes it look kind of Superjet-ish, don't you think?

Certainly has a bit of a similarity.

Comac did a great job with modernizing and simplifying the cockpit widows. I believe I read that the size of the aircraft is roughly between the -10 and -30 DC-9 size. Emergency exits have been repositioned to forward of the engines, and the rear airstairs have been eliminated. Part of the reason for delay into production (other than low sales), has been some issues with the newly designed wing.

I believe Comac is also working with Bombardier for a larger aircraft, which will share commonality with the C Series. Whether this transpires into both a CS500 and a semi-autonomous Comac aircraft is yet to be seen.

The ARJ-21 certainly is a good looking aircraft, clearly showing is pedigree...


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JHCRJ700
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:38 pm

Who makes the engines? Interesting looking plane. Is there any expected entry into service with a commercial carrier anytime soon? Seems like the flight test program is taking awhile.
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:19 pm

Quoting JHCRJ700 (Reply 13):

Who makes the engines?

They are GE CF34-10As, though China eventually wants to develop homegrown engines (and avionics).
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:04 am

Quoting JHCRJ700 (Reply 13):
Is there any expected entry into service with a commercial carrier anytime soon? Seems like the flight test program is taking awhile.

Per AvWek it looks like 2014 is the new entry into service date, though one agency of the Chinese still thinks late 2013. Original plans were for 2006 then 2010 after the first flight late in 2008.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:40 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
They purchased the Boeing/Douglas tooling

Do you have a crediable source for this, I find this very difficult to believe.
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brilondon
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:32 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
They purchased the Boeing/Douglas tooling

Do you have a crediable source for this, I find this very difficult to believe.

It is not out of the realm of possibility that with the discontinuation of the 717, nee DC-9/MD80, why would Boeing not sell the tooling to the Russians or Chinese, the Chinese make everything these days.
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hawaiian717
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:10 am

We're not talking about equipment from Long Beach being sold to China after the end of commercial jetliner production at the Douglas facility, but about equipment originally intended to be used for Chinese production of the MD-90 as part of the TrunkLiner program. Ultimately, only two MD-90s were built in China.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...echniques-return-for-arj21-216288/
 
rikkus67
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:21 am

Thanks for the link, hawaiian717. By the date of the article, the ARJ21 is quite a bit behind schedule. Hopefully, we will see it come to full fruition...
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r2rho
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:17 pm

With the ARJ-21, the Chinese industry is now learning that building a plane that flies is one thing, but actually certifying it (in particular to Western standards) is a whole different issue. From the little that I have read, it seems Comac has had significant documentation and traceability issues regarding various parts etc that does not allow them to be certified, even though fully built, and have had to go back to square one for their design.

But I see the ARJ-21 mainly as a learning experience for the Chinese industry; it doesn't have to be a commercial success. The lessons learned will surely be applied to the C919, etc.
 
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RE: Comac ARJ-21-700 Question

Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
Do you have a crediable source for this, I find this very difficult to believe.

Yes, as hawaiian717 has kindly already cited:

Quoting hawaiian717 (Reply 18):
We're not talking about equipment from Long Beach being sold to China after the end of commercial jetliner production at the Douglas facility, but about equipment originally intended to be used for Chinese production of the MD-90 as part of the TrunkLiner program. Ultimately, only two MD-90s were built in China.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...6288/

Dan  
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