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DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:32 am

With the decline and imminent hub-status loss for CVG and MEM and TPAC growth at SEA, what will become of DL's SLC hub? Will DL try to grow it? Or will more traffic be routed through SEA, MSP and DTW and therefore cause a similar demise as CVG and DTW?
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:37 am

CVG and MEM are not only redundant, they have been slowly dying. SLC has shrunk a bit (like most hubs) but has held strong and most importantly, it's not redundant. SLC and DEN are really the only 2 hubs that can effectively serve that region
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
flyguy89
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:40 am

I foresee pretty much the status-quo in the long term: a smaller-sized efficient Western and largely domestic hub. It works for them and it's probably ideally right-sized so I can't see DL tinkering with the operations there much beyond that.
 
frontierflyer
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:45 am

I see the opposite happening, that would leave a big hole. CVG and MEM are too close by other hubs. If anything I see growth.
 
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enilria
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:52 am

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
With the decline and imminent hub-status loss for CVG and MEM and TPAC growth at SEA, what will become of DL's SLC hub?

Nothing happens unless they merge. They need it for geographic coverage.
 
B4REAL
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:57 am

Also consider the growth at LAX as a part of the equation, while a different market and not entirely a hub, it I think is a cause of the slight overall service cuts at SLC. I think MSP is holding it's ground for a good "midsection hub function" of the country, compared to CVG and MEM. SLC is in an unclear direction honestly, and LAX and SEA are doing well (and on a growing trend) by DL's standards.
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FSDan
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:17 am

SLC is doing fine and will continue to do fine. It has actually seen quite significant growth in mainline and large RJ departures in recent years, with service on 50-seaters and props diminishing. Also, look at WN in SLC. In the last year or two WN has cut BOI, RNO, ABQ, MCI, etc. as DEN has taken over that capacity. And there is not much other LCC competition for DL in SLC with a market that is more-or-less captive (if you want to drive to anywhere from SLC, you're going to be driving a while), and a strong local economy with both business and tourist demand throughout the year.

Markets that DL serves only from SLC:
EUG
MFR
RDM
LWS
SUN
TWF
PIH
IDA
BTM
WYS
COD
GCC
CPR
RKS
OAK
FAT
BUR
LGB
PSP (also has seasonal MSP service?)
RNO
EKO
SGU
CDC
GJT

For DL, there is not another viable hub for most of those destinations.
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B4REAL
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:47 am

Quoting FSDan (Reply 6):
Markets that DL serves only from SLC:

That is an important measure of hub strength, markets only served by SLC. Excellent reply. RR Click for you.
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gigneil
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:59 am

I might be in the minority here, but if DL wants SLC to be a thing - they need to make it a thing.

I know I frequently harp on people for not understanding the actual statistics of routes, and frequently people don't look. But I do know a lot of the numbers, and I still believe that in some cases building a hub has to do with "...and it will come".

Chickens and eggs are serious topics, but if Delta wants to capture contracts and the like, the flights have to exist.

On the flip side, DL may believe the revenue available West of the Mississippi isn't significant enough that a small SLC and a robust MSP can't serve it... but MSP is way up there, Northerly speaking.

NS
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:12 am

Quoting questions (Thread starter):

flat with some limited growth in the domestic market.

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
Nothing happens unless they merge.

nothing happens period. Again, SEA would have to be moved fairly far south to be able to hand the flows SLC does

Quoting FSDan (Reply 6):
OAK

Has LAX flights.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:13 am

I feel like this question comes up every month and the answer is always the same.

SLC is expected to remain status-quo and is not in any danger of being drastically cut/changed/altered/reduced in this CURRENT economic and revenue environment.
 
gigneil
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:14 am

I don't think that DL can sustain their weirdness at LAX and do more on the West Coast in general.

LAX is a war and it isn't one DL can profitably win. They can take traffic away from United, perhaps crush AA a bit harder, but can they make money doing it?

NS
 
boslax
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:17 am

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 7):
That is an important measure of hub strength, markets only served by SLC

Not sure I completely agree with that assesment.

Among the 24 DL markets listed as only being served from SLC, three of them are Essential Air Service (EAS) markets (BTM, CDC, and WYS). Meaning they cannot be profitably served withouth gov't subsidy. Nine of the markets are SkyWest "At Risk markets" (CPR, COD, EKO, GCC, PIH, RKS, SGU, SUN, and TWF). Meaning Delta does not want to take the risk in serving those markets with a fee/departure structure. With that said, the At Risk markets for SkyWest peform well financially.

Combined, the 24 markets listed represent a little less than 1% of Delta's total passenger revenue. I'm sure each of these communities view nonstop service to SLC as important, however, not sure if Delta does. With Delta's looming major reduction in 50 seat RJ flying, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these markets eliminated.

SLC serves a niche on Delta's system that has value. Some tweaks may occur down the road, but nothing major. The greatest operating feature that SLC has - the lowest cost per enplanment among large hub airports.

[Edited 2012-11-26 19:21:47]
 
gigneil
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:19 am

Yeah that is definitely an option as well... on the flip side, I wonder what the DOLLAR value of that 1% is?

I am from COS, and I can tell you that most airlines have enjoyed laughing all the way to the bank from such mountain West cities - I bet DL is no different to those markets.

NS
 
DeltaDc8
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:22 am

With Delta's continued commitment to SLC what is going on with the Terminal situation? Seems that they are a bit antiquated and constrained.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:27 am

Quoting boslax (Reply 12):
Combined, the 24 markets listed represent a little less than 1% of Delta's total passenger revenue. I'm sure each of these communities view nonstop service to SLC as important, however, not sure if Delta does. With Delta's looming major reduction in 50 seat RJ flying, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these markets eliminated.

Exactly. DL significantly pared-down the EAS flying in the Upper Midwest from DTW and MSP with the Saab 340 retirement. Granted, the fact that much of the flying is "at-risk" helps that DL bearing the true cost burden of these flights.

I would not be surprised to see some reductions in the future to some of the 50 seat markets out of SLC. DL will have to decide if it can still profitably (or reasonably unprofitably on a micro-level) serve some of these unique markets.
 
jetmatt777
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:29 am

Quoting DeltaDC8 (Reply 14):
With Delta's continued commitment to SLC what is going on with the Terminal situation? Seems that they are a bit antiquated and constrained.

I believe there was a proposal from SLC recently that addressed an expanded terminal/concourse.

From January:
SLC To Get Brand New Terminal (by tan1mill Jan 17 2012 in Civil Aviation)
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mayor
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:36 am

Quoting boslax (Reply 12):
With Delta's looming major reduction in 50 seat RJ flying, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these markets eliminated.

But how many of those "at risk" cities are operated with Brasilias?
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DeltaMD90
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:46 am

Well, there is much speculation going around. I know the execs won't flat out say anything drastic (look at CVG and MEM, they weren't condemned or anything) so we need to look at the recent history of the SLC hub. I don't have the numbers on me, but IIRC, SLC hasn't been cut very much (not much more or as much as MSP and DTW) and compared to CVG and MEM, SLC is light years away shrinkage-wise.

Now I don't see SLC becoming the west coast ATL (or really that much bigger than SLC is now) but I really don't think LAX can put too much of a dent in SLC... even as a full hub (which DL seems to be struggling to make) SLC will still have a unique market/position and SEA is just so far up I doubt it would really disrupt SLC ops at all.

SLC is no DEN, but it's the next best thing. The Rockies aren't a gold mine but just having SLC or DEN makes you a player in that region... I don't see SLC going anywhere soon, LAX/SEA hubs or not
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deltal1011man
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:57 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 11):

Delta has, finally, started to become fairly stable at LAX. Growth is now limited by gate space(some of the DCI flights are being parked at the hangar and PAX bused to T5.)
I do think LAX for Delta will stay fairly flat now.

Quoting DeltaDC8 (Reply 14):

SLC is starting the first phase of moving to a ATL/DEN model airport.
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jetlanta
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:08 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 11):

I don't think that DL can sustain their weirdness at LAX and do more on the West Coast in general.

LAX is a war and it isn't one DL can profitably win. They can take traffic away from United, perhaps crush AA a bit harder, but can they make money doing it?

NS

Yet, Delta is actually solidly profitable at LAX. Go figure.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:32 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 6):
Markets that DL serves only from SLC

While it is useful to look at that list of relatively small markets, I also find it useful to look at the geography of SLC for connections between larger cities that are also served by other hubs. Connections like SFO-ABQ, BOI-PHX, PDX-AUS, DEN-(California) etc., can be served quite well via SLC, while they wouldn't work nearly as well via MSP, LAX, or SEA. That geographic efficiency is another big reason that the SLC hub isn't going away. Nothing else in the DL system can replace it.
 
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:53 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 9):
Quoting FSDan (Reply 6):
OAK

Has LAX flights.

Good call.

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 21):
While it is useful to look at that list of relatively small markets, I also find it useful to look at the geography of SLC for connections between larger cities that are also served by other hubs. Connections like SFO-ABQ, BOI-PHX, PDX-AUS, DEN-(California) etc., can be served quite well via SLC, while they wouldn't work nearly as well via MSP, LAX, or SEA. That geographic efficiency is another big reason that the SLC hub isn't going away. Nothing else in the DL system can replace it.

  
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enilria
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:38 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 9):
Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
Nothing happens unless they merge.

nothing happens period. Again, SEA would have to be moved fairly far south to be able to hand the flows SLC does

If you think DL keeps SLC in any merger scenario you need to get a random drug test. It would become CVG if DL obtained another strong Western hub. If we are talking about AS as the merger partner then it is murkier. It is probable that PDX would lose out to SLC in that scenario, but it is also possible that DL would build up LAX significantly. You'd be surprised how much of the SLC connecting flow is SoCal to PacNW. I think the argument could be made that with a bigger LAX, SEA, and MSP that SLC offers very little unique flow. Cutting PDX is the more obvious move, though.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:09 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 16):
I believe there was a proposal from SLC recently that addressed an expanded terminal/concourse.

From January:
SLC To Get Brand New Terminal (by tan1mill Jan 17 2012 in Civil Aviation)

PIT, care to chime in here? IND, how's that beautiful new terminal doin'?  
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93Sierra
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:37 pm

I would love to see OO run a 2x daily IWA/AZA to SLC
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:10 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
PIT, care to chime in here? IND, how's that beautiful new terminal doin'?

SLC is taking a pragmatic approach to new terminal construction. The plan calls for the new facility to be built in phases with I think 4 possible stopping points along the way. They are also re-using some portions of the current facility. If market conditions change, construction could be suspended at any of those points, with a perfectly functional facility that will feel pretty complete. Some portions of the existing facility are about 60 years old, have very poor energy efficiency, don't meet current seismic codes, and truely need to be replaced. Those areas will be mostly be replaced or renovated in the earlier phases of the project. So the highest priorities are in the early phases and the polish items are in the later phases.

Personally, as a flyer who transits SLC fairly often, I'm just excited about all of the new food service updates that have opened there in the past few months. I applaud them for investing in improving the passenger experience right now, even though there is a plan in motion to replace it all fairly soon. As a former resident of SLC, I'm especially excited that they brought in a bunch of local franchises, particularly Cafe Rio and Greek Souvlaki, two of my favorites.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 26):
Some portions of the existing facility are about 60 years old, have very poor energy efficiency, don't meet current seismic codes, and truely need to be replaced.

True.......even the newest concourse (not counting E), is D, which was opened in '84, which would make it almost 30 years old.

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 26):
As a former resident of SLC, I'm especially excited that they brought in a bunch of local franchises, particularly Cafe Rio and Greek Souvlaki, two of my favorites.

Where are those located? Haven't seen those yet. A far cry from the days when the only sit down restaurants were in Terminal 1 and there was very little choice of places to eat in #2.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:18 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
I think the argument could be made that with a bigger LAX, SEA, and MSP that SLC offers very little unique flow.

That sounds a bit like AA trying (and failing) to serve the interior west with ORD, DFW, and LAX. UA would be the big winner in the west if DL ever dropped SLC.
 
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cosyr
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 8):
I know I frequently harp on people for not understanding the actual statistics of routes, and frequently people don't look. But I do know a lot of the numbers, and I still believe that in some cases building a hub has to do with "...and it will come".

Chickens and eggs are serious topics, but if Delta wants to capture contracts and the like, the flights have to exist.

I'm not quite sure I follow you here. What numbers are you talking about? Number of flights? Number of Seats, destinations served, market share?

I don't think contracts is a big issue. SLC is Delta's. It may not be the biggest market, but what percentage of companies are going to seek contracts with other airlines that they would have to connect to get everywhere? I bet the majority of companies in SLC that do not contract with DL, have hq's in some city that hubs with another airline, and they mostly fly just between SLC and that city alone.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:35 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
PIT, care to chime in here? IND, how's that beautiful new terminal doin'?

SLC is not comparable to those cities and this investment for them is much less risky. The SLC airport has no debt and can afford to pay for these terminals plus DL is in full support of the terminals and wants this to happen. They are being built working with Delta to resolve their current problems and make it an even better hub. The terminals will not have a huge increase in operating expenses and Delta is in full support plus SLC is much safer and this is an investment they wont regret.

The new terminals are also needed since the airport was never designed to handle the traffic it sees today plus they would need to spend money to improve earthquake standards on the current terminals anyway so it also makes sense to do it and also offer a facility that better meets the needs of Delta.
 
brilondon
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
Or will more traffic be routed through SEA, MSP and DTW and therefore cause a similar demise as CVG and DTW?

I find the above to contradict its self in reference to DTW, if more traffic is routed through DTW causing it to what, contract?
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redzeppelin
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:11 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 27):
Where are those located? Haven't seen those yet. A far cry from the days when the only sit down restaurants were in Terminal 1 and there was very little choice of places to eat in #2.

Top of the C concourse, near the terminal 2 security point. The former Dick Clark Grill has been replaced by Market Street Grill (which is a full-service restaurant and also a local favorite). Cafe Rio and Greek Souvlaki are in the nearby food court, together with McD's.

The airport had an offical grand opening for 13 new food outlets this month. Here are a few news clips about it:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...ocal-flavor-to-dining-options.html
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/5.../airport-lake-salt-dining.html.csp
 
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enilria
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 28):
Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
I think the argument could be made that with a bigger LAX, SEA, and MSP that SLC offers very little unique flow.

That sounds a bit like AA trying (and failing) to serve the interior west with ORD, DFW, and LAX. UA would be the big winner in the west if DL ever dropped SLC.

Clearly SEA is superior to DFW as an inter-West connect point by multiples. Don't really think that is much of a comparison. A connect via SEA is two hours less than a connect via DFW in hundreds of Inter-west O&Ds. ORD/MSP and LAX/LAX are comparable.

The better question is SLC vs. SEA. Here are DL's top 15 connect routings via SLC from DB1B by volume. These are doing 15 to 30 passengers per day each way.

1) PHX-SEA (non-stop to SEA)
2) DFW-BOI (LAX worse, but possible)
3) LAS-BWI (numerous other options)
4) LAS-GEG (LAX or SEA similar)
5) STL-LAS (MSP or LAX similar)
6) OKC-SEA (MSP or LAX worse, or non-stop SEA)
7) SEA-LAS (non-stop to SEA)
8) SEA-MEM (non-stop to SEA)
9) DFW-PDX (SEA or non-stop if PDX hub retained)
10) SAN-STL (LAX better)
11) OAK-MSP (non-stop to MSP)
12) SAN-SEA (non-stop to SEA)
13) SMF-MCO (numerous other options)
14) BOI-LAS (LAX slightly worse)
15) LAS-SAT (LAX about the same)

I think you can see why the SLC hub isn't more profitable. Low-yield LAS connects dominate the list. Anyway, that stuff is all fairly well covered with SEA and LAX if there was a merger and some capacity diverted to filling the gaps..
 
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting boslax (Reply 12):
Essential Air Service (EAS) markets (BTM,

BTM is an interesting market, and I think the winner here is SkyWest. Based on BTS data, while there has been some dropoff in pax boardings, I really don't see a reason why the market had to go EAS at all. I think DL just gave up.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:43 pm

Why did DL can SLC-NRT so quickly? Was it not doing well?

I know there are some performance issues on the SLC-NRT leg, but a 77L would fix that.

By all accounts, SLC-CDG is safe and doing well.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 35):
Why did DL can SLC-NRT so quickly? Was it not doing well?

I know there are some performance issues on the SLC-NRT leg, but a 77L would fix that.

By all accounts, SLC-CDG is safe and doing well.

Delta operated the route IIRC for two summers. The 777 is too big for the route. The A330 is a better size but it had weight restrictions West bound on both cargo and passengers. They wouldnt sell all the coach seats on the SLC-NRT leg and had cargo restrictions given SLC altitude, summer weather, and runway length. From what i have heard Delta still wants to try this route again after the economy improves believe it or not. I dont think they used all the subsidy money and i am guessing they think they can get people to dig deeper in their pockets. I think the economy would really need to fully recover to have a chance plus SEA seems to be a renewed Asia gateway so I think i wouldnt really hold my breathe waiting for a relaunch. I think London makes more sense personally but the value of a LHR slot is a whole other thread
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:39 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 35):
Why did DL can SLC-NRT so quickly? Was it not doing well?
I know there are some performance issues on the SLC-NRT leg, but a 77L would fix that.

I think it is more of a 787 route if it ever comes back, a la UA's DEN-NRT.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 35):
By all accounts, SLC-CDG is safe and doing well.

I think it will do even better once DL finishes the 763 mods and puts a better product on the route.

[Edited 2012-11-27 13:40:32]
 
PITrules
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:02 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 30):
SLC is not comparable to those cities and this investment for them is much less risky. The SLC airport has no debt and can afford to pay for these terminals plus DL is in full support of the terminals and wants this to happen. They are being built working with Delta to resolve their current problems and make it an even better hub. The terminals will not have a huge increase in operating expenses and Delta is in full support plus SLC is much safer and this is an investment they wont regret.

Well PIT and IND had little (or no) debt before they committed to their new terminals either. Everything else you said about DL @ SLC is what US said about the new PIT facility when they finally and seemingly reluctantly committed to it.
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enilria
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:15 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 35):
Why did DL can SLC-NRT so quickly? Was it not doing well?

Apply nail to head. Yes. It was a subsidy deal from day #1. Never a good sign.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:23 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 38):
Well PIT and IND had little (or no) debt before they committed to their new terminals either. Everything else you said about DL @ SLC is what US said about the new PIT facility when they finally and seemingly reluctantly committed to it.

I don't believe that SLC is building a shopping mall with an airport attached to it, though. Remember, this is something that HAD to be built, just to meet the seismic standards. A secondary benefit to building it is to increase capacity and make the gates more versatile as far as what a/c they can handle. Right now, I believe, DL only has 7 gates where widebodies can be parked and I guess the new gates will be able to handle mainline as well as regional a/c.

As I mentioned before, the newest concourse (except for E) is D, which opened in '84. I'm not sure anyone envisioned the expansion needed at that time. WA was still the big fish, then.
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PITrules
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RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:58 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 40):
I don't believe that SLC is building a shopping mall with an airport attached to it, though. Remember, this is something that HAD to be built, just to meet the seismic standards. A secondary benefit to building it is to increase capacity and make the gates more versatile as far as what a/c they can handle. Right now, I believe, DL only has 7 gates where widebodies can be parked and I guess the new gates will be able to handle mainline as well as regional a/c.

As I mentioned before, the newest concourse (except for E) is D, which opened in '84. I'm not sure anyone envisioned the expansion needed at that time. WA was still the big fish, then.

Don't over emphasis PIT's airmall. It is nothing but the usual amount of airport retail space located in a central area and cleverly marketed as a "mall". As far as something that "had" to be built, again the argument is the same... be it lack of capacity, structural deficiency, etc.

I hope it works out better for SLC than it has for PIT, CVG, IND
FLYi
 
aerowrench
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:22 pm

RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:36 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 11):

Maybe you ought to look at the loads via Travelnet before you assume this "weirdness" won't last. Also,unless your armchair is being fed route yields directly from Delta I would consider gathering intel before making a comment such as this.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:54 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
You'd be surprised how much of the SLC connecting flow is SoCal to PacNW.

Which is somewhat of a surprise to me, having done almost that route once, but it was PDX-SLC-PHX instead, thanks to a Priceline ticket. With 90-minute connections each way, it was the most grueling trip I'd taken in a long time for some reason, and one I never did again. It took nearly all morning to fly to PHX, and almost all afternoon to get back home.

I'm always surprised at how many connections via SLC show up as options when looking at flights from PDX heading to popular destinations in California and the Southwest in general. The prices are usually within a few dollars of more direct or nonstop routings, usually just the difference in segment and other taxes/fees.

Heading further afield though, SLC is a terrific place to connect. I did LAS-SLC-JFK a year ago or so, and was perfectly happy with it. The paid upgrade to F out of SLC was only $119, IIRC, which I thought was an okay price considering it was a red-eye so I was saving the cost of a hotel that night, and cheaper than the LAS-JFK nonstops at the time.
International Homo of Mystery
 
jporterfi
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:25 am

RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:38 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 43):
I'm always surprised at how many connections via SLC show up as options when looking at flights from PDX heading to popular destinations in California and the Southwest in general. The prices are usually within a few dollars of more direct or nonstop routings, usually just the difference in segment and other taxes/fees.

This is just DL wanting a piece of the action, instead of letting AS, UA, and WN dominate. I too was surprised to find out that a lot of the connections were from and to West Coast destinations, but I imagine these flights exists also to serve passengers coming from the Midwest to the West. I always find it interesting how airlines in general often compete by charging the same base fare, but will not lower the base fare enough to make the total price of their connecting itinerary equivalent or less than the nonstop. It seems to me that that would be the only way to get most people (myself and many a.netters excluded) to choose a connection over a nonstop.
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2557
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:55 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
look at CVG and MEM, they weren't condemned or anything

While not condemned, CVG has come pretty close. I the gold standard of DL De-hubbing is DFW in 2005 (I think it was). CVG went from having the most gates (Combined DL and DCI operations) of all US hubs to now having no cities that are exclusively served from CVG (used to have a lot of DCI routes, and one mainline route CVG-PWM back in the day maybe others). CVG hasn't been DFW'd but, it's given a chance to keep what it has, but we'll see how long that lasts.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
flyguy89
Posts: 1933
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:02 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 41):
I hope it works out better for SLC than it has for PIT, CVG, IND

I'd say it worked out pretty well for CVG seeing as DL paid for the construction and is still locked into paying for Concourses B and C, a deal almost unheard of nowadays.
 
questions
Topic Author
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:01 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
IND, how's that beautiful new terminal doin'?
Quoting PITrules (Reply 41):
I hope it works out better for SLC than it has for... IND

What happened to IND?
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4664
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:35 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
If you think DL keeps SLC in any merger scenario you need to get a random drug test.

I think you need to go back to like 2nd grande and learn about a thing called a map.

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
It is probable that PDX would lose out to SLC in that scenario, but it is also possible that DL would build up LAX significantly.

......MAP
Maybe SAN...or MIA can replace SLC.   Heck maybe NRT or DEL....

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
I think the argument could be made that with a bigger LAX, SEA, and MSP that SLC offers very little unique flow.

Clearly. I mean, one is in the southwest corner of the US, the other in the Northwest corner and the last one is nearly in canada. Good luck and have fun flying DFW-MSP/SEA/LAX-SFO over SLC

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 28):
UA would be the big winner in the west if DL ever dropped SLC.

And would thank whoever was that stupid greatly.

Quoting enilria (Reply 33):
Clearly SEA is superior to DFW as an inter-West connect point by multiples.

...... huh? You really think people are going to pay the real price to fly ABQ-SEA-PDX over ABQ-SLC-PDX?
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2557
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: DL SLC Hub Prospects

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:13 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 46):
I'd say it worked out pretty well for CVG seeing as DL paid for the construction and is still locked into paying for Concourses B and C, a deal almost unheard of nowadays.

Agreed.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds

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