womenbeshoppin
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Philly Mayor To Meet With Air China Execs

Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:28 am

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/lo...ing_on_trade_mission_to_China.html


Looks like Mayor Nutter is going to try to sell the city to Air China to be the first Asia service into PHL. I thought it would be US first to expand. But it looks like a non us carrier might be the first.
 
crownvic
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RE: Philly Mayor To Meet With Air China Execs

Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:54 am

Interesting. Maybe a shot across USAirways bow that the city is not going to wait for their A350 deliveries, to get some sort of Asia service.
 
phlwok
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RE: Philly Mayor To Meet With Air China Execs

Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:14 pm

Quoting crownvic (Reply 1):
Interesting. Maybe a shot across USAirways bow that the city is not going to wait for their A350 deliveries, to get some sort of Asia service.

The mayor can really do whatever he wants, and if he's there anyway and can get the meeting, there's little reason to not advocate more international service. I highly doubt CA would be in a hurry to start PHL routes though even being in Star with US, and if it happens it'll be by US eventually.
 
usairways85
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RE: Philly Mayor To Meet With Air China Execs

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:47 am

It is rather sad how lopsided int'l traffic is at PHL. I believe there was a link to a report in another recent Philly.com article about the lack of international service at PHL. 63% of the int'l through paxs in PHL were headed to western europe, with less than 1% headed to Asia. This percentage to western Europe was the highest of all airports/regions surveyed (17 regions) by 16%. This clearly displays the poor coverage of international service from PHL.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Philly Mayor To Meet With Air China Execs

Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:24 am

I don't see PHL ever getting Asia service from a domestic carrier. If the merger goes through, any new china service will go to JFK.
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will777
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RE: Philly Mayor To Meet With Air China Execs

Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:38 am

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 3):
It is rather sad how lopsided int'l traffic is at PHL. I believe there was a link to a report in another recent Philly.com article about the lack of international service at PHL. 63% of the int'l through paxs in PHL were headed to western europe, with less than 1% headed to Asia. This percentage to western Europe was the highest of all airports/regions surveyed (17 regions) by 16%. This clearly displays the poor coverage of international service from PHL.

You're right! PHL has a great European network, but that's it!
 
phlwok
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RE: Philly Mayor To Meet With Air China Execs

Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:37 am

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 3):
It is rather sad how lopsided int'l traffic is at PHL. I believe there was a link to a report in another recent Philly.com article about the lack of international service at PHL. 63% of the int'l through paxs in PHL were headed to western europe, with less than 1% headed to Asia. This percentage to western Europe was the highest of all airports/regions surveyed (17 regions) by 16%. This clearly displays the poor coverage of international service from PHL.

Maybe, but Philly has many more links to Europe than it does to Asia, as well as it being more than twice the distance to cities of importance in Asia versus Europe. It makes more sense to airlines' operations to launch Asia services from hubs further west - notably ORD for traffic heading west from PHL - and feed them with connections from additional cities. In the eastern US, really only NYC has enough O&D to support significant Asian flights that don't need to heavily depend on connections.

With the continued emergence of Asian economies and immigration to the US from East Asia, this may change and drive more demand from the eastern US, but it won't happen overnight.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
I don't see PHL ever getting Asia service from a domestic carrier. If the merger goes through, any new china service will go to JFK.

I actually would expect most Asian expansion from a merged AA/US to be launched/expanded from ORD, where AA already does ORD-NRT/PEK/PVG. While ORD/JFK to East Asia stage lengths are pretty similar on great circle paths, ORD's more westerly location allows more connections who don't have to backtrack by going east to JFK - this is why UA drives more Asian connections through ORD over IAD for instance. The topic of whether a merged AA/US can build up JFK is something we've discussed in several other threads, but my opinion is that AA isn't strong enough there to do a major build up, there isn't room for them to do so, and it's also no replacement for PHL (nor is it an alternate for PHL O&D due to geography and ground traffic).
 
usairways85
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RE: Philly Mayor To Meet With Air China Execs

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:43 pm

Quoting PHLwok (Reply 6):
Maybe, but Philly has many more links to Europe than it does to Asia, as well as it being more than twice the distance to cities of importance in Asia versus Europe. It makes more sense to airlines' operations to launch Asia services from hubs further west - notably ORD for traffic heading west from PHL - and feed them with connections from additional cities. In the eastern US, really only NYC has enough O&D to support significant Asian flights that don't need to heavily depend on connections.

Well I am not talking about PHL growing into an Asian powerhouse but still PHL should be able to handle a few flts a day. Yes sure flts from ORD/west coast are great but they only serve so many Asian destinations so you very well may have to make 2 connections from PHL. Where as with a flt to NRT you could do PHL-NRT-SIN instead of PHL-ORD-NRT-SIN.

Also report was more on through paxs. So if someone in RDU had to go to SIN, right now there is almost a 0% chance they fly through PHL. However if they had RDU-PHL-NRT-SIN, RDU-EWR-NRT-SIN, or RDU-ORD-NRT-SIN I really don't see that much of a difference in the route, it would ultimately come down to price & comfort, but I don't see why PHL wouldn't be an option.

Also the article, while rather cheesy as it was, argued that PHL businesses are increasing ties globally say with Asia, and the lack of air service from PHL makes it cumbersome to travel.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Philly Mayor To Meet With Air China Execs

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
I don't see PHL ever getting Asia service from a domestic carrier. If the merger goes through, any new china service will go to JFK.

I dont think PHL-NRT would be out of the question. The market is large enough for one flight a day to Asia.
It is what it is...
 
nzrich
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RE: Philly Mayor To Meet With Air China Execs

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:28 pm

Until US works out if it will or wont merge with SA)">AA then I can not see Air China even thinking of PHL . Why would they go to a SA hub that could change to a OW hub .
"Pride of the pacific"
 
phlwok
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RE: Philly Mayor To Meet With Air China Execs

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:35 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):

I dont think PHL-NRT would be out of the question. The market is large enough for one flight a day to Asia.

I think NRT is more likely than most if not all others as an initial Asian gateway, but I don't have historical stats on the passenger loads each way on the route.

Quoting nzrich (Reply 9):
Until US works out if it will or wont merge with SA)">AA then I can not see Air China even thinking of PHL . Why would they go to a SA hub that could change to a OW hub .

Yup. Based on some prior experiences with CA, I'd actually rather US operate a flight on PHL-PEK anyway. That said, I think the chances of CA opening the route are remote, and the meeting the mayor's having there strikes me as prudent "selling" of the region for business connections but is unlikely to result in a flight.
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: Philly Mayor To Meet With Air China Execs

Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:25 pm

Whatever did happen to US award for PHL-PEK service? I know DOT agreed to a one year postponement from '09 to '10 but never heard another word about it afterward. I thought it was somewhat laughable US was going to launch service on the route with a dedicated A-340 subfleet they didn't even have yet. I'm confident the issue was the economy turning south in '08 and not their inability to get the aircraft second hand until the A-350 was ready. No idea if they still have the authority ready to go when things improve.
 
usairways85
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RE: Philly Mayor To Meet With Air China Execs

Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:34 pm

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 11):
Whatever did happen to US award for PHL-PEK service? I know DOT agreed to a one year postponement from '09 to '10 but never heard another word about it afterward. I thought it was somewhat laughable US was going to launch service on the route with a dedicated A-340 subfleet they didn't even have yet. I'm confident the issue was the economy turning south in '08 and not their inability to get the aircraft second hand until the A-350 was ready. No idea if they still have the authority ready to go when things improve.

They gave it up because the lack of aircraft. It was a rather crazy route to fly. Sure PEK might be a growing market but not necessarily a great first Asian market.