Transpac787
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UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:00 am

Hey all,

Was just looking at our summer schedule and noticed that all the A319's are listed as having a capacity of 8/106, compared to their current configuration of 8/112. Is this true, that all A319's are/will be reconfigured??

If yes - why?? They all already have Y+ seating so it's not like the sCO birds that are having rows removed to add the Y+ cabin.
 
aznmadsci
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:06 am

Aren't they scheduled to get updated interiors and possibly WiFi added or LiveTV?
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deltairlines
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:22 am

Would seem to be the opposite of Delta, which added seats to its A319s in order to reduce CASM. Interesting if true, to say the least.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:26 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
If yes - why??


I don't know either.

But I would guess it would have something to do with increasing the front from 8 to 12 -- to be identical to the 737-700s which are already 12/106 .

[Edited 2012-11-27 19:42:58]
 
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hOMSaR
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:59 pm

I recall reading that for schedules many months out, UA puts a generic configuration available on the seating chart to protect against equipment swaps (such as to a 737-500) that reduce capacity. When it gets closer to departure date, the seating chart will be revised to the actual planned aircraft type for the flight.
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fxramper
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:25 pm

Would be better if they removed the 319 from the fleet.   
 
lostsound
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:56 pm

Quoting fxramper (Reply 5):

Would be better if they removed the 319 from the fleet

Are UA's not comfortable?

I've never had any issues on Air Canada's A319 planes.

[Edited 2012-11-28 10:56:30]

[Edited 2012-11-28 10:56:55]
 
gigneil
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:36 pm

United's A319s are very, very comfortable and well maintained planes.

They're far more pleasant than their 73Gs due to the seating and the color scheme.

NS
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting LostSound (Reply 6):
Are UA's not comfortable?

UA's A319s are some of the most comfortable aircraft I've flown on. Very spacious  
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N62NA
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting fxramper (Reply 5):
Would be better if they removed the 319 from the fleet.

I'm a big fan of the A319. It's "cozy" inside.

For the record, I've also flown on A320 and A321.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 7):
They're far more pleasant than their 73Gs due to the seating and the color scheme.

And seats on the 700s are 1/2 inch narrower than the 319s.



Quoting fxramper (Reply 5):
Would be better if they removed the 319 from the fleet.

Remove one of the narrowbody workhorses? What would be the point of that?
 
N766UA
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:54 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 7):
They're far more pleasant than their 73Gs due to the seating and the color scheme.
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 11):
And seats on the 700s are 1/2 inch narrower than the 319s.

See, I like the 737's better. I'm also not fat, though.
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:08 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 12):
I'm also not fat, though.

Hmmm.

But . . . don't skinny folks also upgrade to the front where the cushiest seats are?  
 
N766UA
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:13 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 13):
But . . . don't skinny folks also upgrade to the front where the cushiest seats are?

Aren't there more cushy seats available in the front of a 737?

There's nothing wrong with the 319s, I just have always been more comfortable on 73's.
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lhcvg
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 12):
Quoting gigneil (Reply 7):
They're far more pleasant than their 73Gs due to the seating and the color scheme.

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 11):
And seats on the 700s are 1/2 inch narrower than the 319s.

I'm neither here no there on the interior, but I just flew on a 73H last week for the first time in a while (last was an old-school DL 738 ~6 years ago), and the cabin size was quite noticeable. The seats were noticeably narrower, and I felt like the shoulder/head room was a bit tighter as well. It was interesting to compare after flying all Airbii the last couple years, but definitely much more "snug".
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:17 pm

Haven't flown on a UA A319 but I have flown on one of the A320s. Why the hell cant they put the same cushiony seats from the A320 in their 737s!?
Not every day we find light winds. What do we do in these situations? Fly.
 
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cosyr
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:19 pm

could this have anythibg to do with a capacity compromise for the pilot contract they are negotiating? I know it doesn't make much sense to lower capacity, but if they agreed to a certain number of aircraft under a certain capacity, then UA could use the 319's until a C series or ejet order could be delivered. Just wishful thinking on my part, but I can dream...
 
lhcvg
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:29 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 16):
Haven't flown on a UA A319 but I have flown on one of the A320s. Why the hell cant they put the same cushiony seats from the A320 in their 737s!?

Well first I think many of the 737s from CO are relatively young so prob not in need of new seats anyway, but also given the narrower cabin they may not make the same seat in a smaller size for a 737. EIther way though, it will be interesting to see where all that goes moving forward. With the new refits to 2-class 763s and the like going "CO style", they may just standardize of that.

Quoting cosyr (Reply 17):
could this have anythibg to do with a capacity compromise for the pilot contract they are negotiating? I know it doesn't make much sense to lower capacity, but if they agreed to a certain number of aircraft under a certain capacity, then UA could use the 319's until a C series or ejet order could be delivered. Just wishful thinking on my part, but I can dream...

I can't cite it exactly, but I know I have seen a couple rumors about the wanting to standardize the 73G and 319 part. So that doesn't mesh with dumping a row necessarily, but going to 12F I would think is certainly a possibility.
 
MountainFlyer
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:32 pm

Quoting HOMsAR (Reply 4):
I recall reading that for schedules many months out, UA puts a generic configuration available on the seating chart to protect against equipment swaps (such as to a 737-500) that reduce capacity.

That's funny because that's exactly what happened on the last UA flight I was on. The flight was originally sold as a 738 from DEN-CLE, but it was later downgraded to a 735 a few weeks ahead of time.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 7):
United's A319s are very, very comfortable and well maintained planes.

     

I rather enjoyed the UA A319's.
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Q
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:33 pm

My theory is that.

If seats total 112 without the TV the payload weight total in full 149,000 LB (example only)

If seats total 106 with TV the payload weight total in full 150,500 LB.

Probably Airbus 319 is limit in full payload no more than 151,000 LB.

If they keep seats 112 with new TV and would have been full payload total is 152,000 LB that is unacceptable from FAA or Airbus weight overload.

What do you think?

Q
 
Sancho99504
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:57 pm

Quoting Q (Reply 20):

I think UA may have the IGW A319s, which I believe is something like 166,500lbs so that wouldn't make a difference,
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TWA772LR
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 18):

Wasn't CO going to change the seats on the 737s because they were found to have a fault in the seat because of the manufacturer?
Not every day we find light winds. What do we do in these situations? Fly.
 
gigneil
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:30 pm

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 21):
I think UA may have the IGW A319s, which I believe is something like 166,500lbs so that wouldn't make a difference,

They do. They also have a 24k+thrust bump option to get them off Stapleton/DEN's runways in the summer.

NS
 
Sancho99504
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:42 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 22):

I think those seats never received FAA certification due to the fault and never made their way onto any frames. IIRC, there are a few pictures on the site with a bunch of CO 73H's sitting in Renton waiting on seats.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 23):

Thanks sir, I couldn't remember, I knew HP and UA were the only us airlines that bought the IGW versions. And I think they use the V2524-M5 engines like HP which are standard at 24k thrust with a bump for a bit more.... hope someone could verify that...

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 2):

They just filled in the holes in row 8 which had no window seats on either side of the aircraft, so not really what I would call a big deal since they didn't add any new rows. They went from 12F/112Y to 12F/114Y.
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:03 am

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 3):
Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
If yes - why??


I don't know either.

But I would guess it would have something to do with increasing the front from 8 to 12 -- to be identical to the 737-700s which are already 12/106 .

That is not correct. With E+ the 73G is 12/100 not 12/106

73G is 12F, 40E+ and 60Y = 112
319 is 8F, 40E+ and 72Y=120

Using Seat Guru it looks like taking the 319 to 12F would reduce E+ pitch from 35 to 34 as 3 extra inches of pitch in F would need 1 inch from each from E+ rows. UA has some 34 inch pitch E+, but mostly 35 inches.
If a row of F added, 319 would become
12F, 36E+ and 72Y = 118, still 6 more seats than the 73G.
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asqx
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:14 am

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 24):
They just filled in the holes in row 8 which had no window seats on either side of the aircraft, so not really what I would call a big deal since they didn't add any new rows. They went from 12F/112Y to 12F/114Y.

Actually, Delta went from 16F/108Y to 12F/114Y on the A319. The 737-700s on the other hand have always been 12F/112Y.
 
United1
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:15 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 25):
That is not correct. With E+ the 73G is 12/100 not 12/106

73G is 12F, 40E+ and 60Y = 112
319 is 8F, 40E+ and 72Y=120

Using Seat Guru it looks like taking the 319 to 12F would reduce E+ pitch from 35 to 34 as 3 extra inches of pitch in F would need 1 inch from each from E+ rows. UA has some 34 inch pitch E+, but mostly 35 inches.
If a row of F added, 319 would become
12F, 36E+ and 72Y = 118, still 6 more seats than the 73G.

UA is installing slimline seats on the 320/319s starting next year....think that might give you that lost inch.
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Transpac787
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:30 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 24):
That is not correct. With E+ the 73G is 12/100 not 12/106

This, is actually, the incorrect statement.

Pre-Y+, the sCO 73G's were configured 12/112. Now post-Y+, they are configured 12/106. You may be mistaking them with the 735, which were originally configured 8/106 and are now configured 8/100.
 
gigneil
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:44 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 24):
That is not correct. With E+ the 73G is 12/100 not 12/106

They are definitely 12/106.

NS
 
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cosyr
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:11 am

I don't know if they are planning to add a row of F later, but I just searched a random 319 flight in July and it definitely has 8/106 on the seating chart, and the last row is all filled, which I highly doubt that 6 passengers happened to choose, 9 months early!
 
phllax
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:35 am

Pre-merger UA was going to up the F on the 319 to 12 to match the 320 due to the numerous swaps they regularly have.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:53 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 24):
That is not correct. With E+ the 73G is 12/100 not 12/106

Oh? Then it's United.com that must be all wrong, since that's where I got the numbers.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 28):
Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 24):
That is not correct. With E+ the 73G is 12/100 not 12/106

They are definitely 12/106.

NS

Sorry, I shouldn't have used SeatGuru, which shows 12/100, but has 12/106 seats on the map.

Adding 4 F seats to the 319 would result in equal numbers for the 73G and 319, except the 73G would have 6 more E+ and 6 fewer Y seats vs. the 319.

[Edited 2012-11-29 06:18:47]
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VC10er
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:27 pm

I have been on a hundred flights on UA from LaGuardia to O'Hare over many years. I hated the OLD UA 737's, loved the A319/320's and 757's. UA always had a darn good seat in F an Y.

CO, the worst. That makes me worry! Yes...CO often had better service but comfort for your butt and back was always bad...even worse in BusinessFirst in the old recliner.

I am dying to get on a renovated A320 - did the seats get better or worse? What fabric? The CO checker patterns?
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Rdh3e
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:34 pm

So what you're telling me is:

73G = 12/106
319 = 8/112

So what are you seeing published at 8/106....Gee lets take a wild guess. These types get swapped back and forth like crazy, so perhaps they are just publishing the smaller of each cabin to increase flexibility as was already noted several times. 319 F cabin and 73G Y cabin.

Lets put all the speculation to bed.
 
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cosyr
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:27 pm

Why does the seat map skip from row 32 to row 34? It is the row 33/34 that are in question here. The flight I searched only went up to 32. I really hope it means that they are adding F. With only 8 seats, a lowly Silver like me has no chance of upgrade on the 319's.
 
Transpac787
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:28 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 34):
Gee lets take a wild guess. These types get swapped back and forth like crazy,

Swing & a miss  

The 73G is operated by sCO pilots and sCO FA's while the 319 is operated by sUA pilots and sUA FA's. Personally working 4 days a week in the operation, I've never once seen a 319 swap to a 73G or vice versa. The magnitude in the logistics of such a swap would be baffling and at which point the flights would likely just cancel.

A 319>320 swap, and reverse, are extremely common. As are 73G>738 and reverse. But crossfleet swaps, between the Airbus and the guppy, are nigh unheard of.

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 34):
Lets put all the speculation to bed.

Not quite yet.  
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 36):
Swing & a miss

*IN THE SCHEDULE. These types are both placeholders that UA uses all the time.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 36):
Not quite yet.

God forbid someone who actually knows gets listened to around here  
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:03 am

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 34):
Gee lets take a wild guess. These types get swapped back and forth like crazy
Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 36):
The 73G is operated by sCO pilots and sCO FA's while the 319 is operated by sUA pilots and sUA FA's.

As far as I know both of these statements are correct -- on SFO-SNA-SFO and SFO-SEA-SFO.

I fly the routes every few weeks and it's a 737-700 one trip and a 319 the next
 
Transpac787
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:15 am

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 37):
God forbid someone who actually knows gets listened to around here

Indeed.

Clearly that person is not you, though. As you assumed the logistics in swapping sCO and sUA fleet types was something done "like crazy".
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Removing A Row From A319's?

Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:19 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 39):
Clearly that person is not you, though. As you assumed the logistics in swapping sCO and sUA fleet types was something done "like crazy".

You crack me up. I stipulated later that I was referring to swapping them in the schedule, as that is what the OP is referring to. He's looking at summer 2013, where swapping equipment would have zero ramifications as crew pairings and bid lines have yet to even be considered.

I'm not sure why you are so quick to dismiss what I am saying, if you search my post history you will find that I don't post about things which are not in my purview.