OlympicATH
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Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:05 pm

I guess no one saw this coming.

This morning at a press conference in Athens, Akbar Al Baker announced the launch of daily non-stop flights between Athens and New York in the second half of 2013. According to the Greek press, the flights will be operated with 787 or A380 aircraft.
The articles don't specify if the flights will originate in DOH and if they will be to JFK or EWR, although JFK seems more likely given QR already flies there.

Links to articles in 3 major Greek newspapers (Greek only):
http://www.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/_w_a...les_kathremote_1_28/11/2012_471961
http://www.tovima.gr/finance/article/?aid=486059
http://www.tanea.gr/latestnews/artic.../?aid=4771267&wordsinarticle=qatar
 
G500
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:11 pm

These Gulf carriers are beating up the European and now the U.S airlines with their mega hubs in the desert, now they're going to do it on their turf.

I'm not sure if Delta still flies the route, I think they dropped it. But who would you rather fly, Delta, old aging 767 with so so service, or Qatar in a brand new 787 and superior service? Tough decision
 
JU068
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:14 pm

This is beyond amazing, however I know a few airlines that won't be happy at all if these flights materialize. I wonder if they might team up with Aegean to get some additional traffic from places like Cyprus and the Middle East.

By the way, can Athens even handle an A380? Last time I checked they couldn't.

[Edited 2012-11-28 08:18:04 by SA7700]
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:17 pm

Reminds me of EK operating DXB-HAM-JFK but which no longer exists.
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ba319-131
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:21 pm

787 or A380, bit of a capacity gap here!

Let's be realistic, starting with a 788 makes more sense!
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migair54
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:53 pm

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 5):
Let's be realistic, starting with a 788 makes more sense!

more sense and logic, I don´t Qatar Airways is going to use the flagship of the fleet in a place that is not Doha... that´s not logic, i´m sure they will use to and from Doha non stop to NYC maybe but not via ATH.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 4):
Reminds me of EK operating DXB-HAM-JFK but which no longer exists.

ATH-NYC is much bigger market and higher yields, despite the crisis i´m sure they can do a nice revenue.

Quoting OlympicATH (Thread starter):
I guess no one saw this coming.

Never ever....... it was a very well keep secret...
 
TC957
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:54 pm

Clever move, and perhaps a sign of what's to come. The big 3 ME airlines routing long-haul via an underserved intermediate European point. In addition to their direct non-stop services. Wouldn't be surprised if in future they route some US services via regional points in the UK for example. If agreements allow....
 
swallow
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:01 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 4):
Reminds me of EK operating DXB-HAM-JFK.

Similar routings are:

SQ: SIN-FRA-JFK, and

NZ: AUK-LAX-LHR
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CXfirst
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:10 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 7):
Clever move, and perhaps a sign of what's to come. The big 3 ME airlines routing long-haul via an underserved intermediate European point. In addition to their direct non-stop services. Wouldn't be surprised if in future they route some US services via regional points in the UK for example. If agreements allow....

I wouldn't be all too surprised either, if they are allowed.

They've taken over a lot of markets, but Europe-North America they will never take via the middle east. If they keep DOH-North America, and extend DOH-Europe to America (ie DOH-MAN-JFK), they cover all markets, US-Arabia (plus connections), EUR-Arabia (plus connections) and the more local EUR-US.

But, don't think European or American airlines would be too happy, and I only think a handful of underserved city pairs would get the green light.

-CXfirst
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:16 pm

Quoting OlympicATH (Thread starter):
I guess no one saw this coming.

I didn't... I'm going to have to think of the business implications...

Quoting OlympicATH (Thread starter):
the flights will be operated with 787 or A380 aircraft.

Is AAB drunk?!? Seriously, if he had said 'operated with the 787 or 777' I wouldn't have noticed and we could have debated which is the better gauge. But the alternative being the A380? That was said for press coverage and nothing else.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 3):
can Athens even handle an A380?

Search Google for "athens airport A380." You will find that EK and AF have already done 'stunt flights' there and it is an approved diversion airport for the A380. A gate is cheap and quick.

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 5):
787 or A380, bit of a capacity gap here!

  

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 9):
if they are allowed.

That is a question worth asking... are they allowed?

Lightsaber
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babybus
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:48 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
But who would you rather fly, Delta, old aging 767 with so so service, or Qatar in a brand new 787 and superior service?

I'm not sure passengers would notice any difference.

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 5):
Let's be realistic, starting with a 788 makes more sense!

They will need something to do with those aircraft, but I think Greece would be better off with a low-cost carrier operating that route. Qatar Airways are good but they are also very expensive to fly with. I'm not sure the Greeks can afford that luxury these days.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
G500
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:30 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 11):

The passengers might not notice the diference between a 787 and a 767, but they will notice the diference between Qatar's and Delta's service.

Qatar's flight attendants will go the extra mile to keep you happy, their jobs depend on it.

Delta's flight attendants are union-protected, they'll get to you when they get to you, if they get to you
 
Rbgso
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:38 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 12):
Delta's flight attendants are union-protected, they'll get to you when they get to you, if they get to you

I don't believe DL's FAs have a union anymore, although organization efforts are ongoing.
 
mozart
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:38 pm

Quoting swallow (Reply 8):

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 4):
Reminds me of EK operating DXB-HAM-JFK.

Similar routings are:

SQ: SIN-FRA-JFK, and

NZ: AUK-LAX-LHR

But there is an important difference: Qatar flies between Athens and New York only because it is interested in the Athens-New York market. SQ and NZ have to stop in FRA and LAX respectively because the planes need to make a technical stop.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
But the alternative being the A380? That was said for press coverage and nothing else.

I sometimes get the feeling that AAB is the Michael O'Leary of high end airlines.

Quoting babybus (Reply 11):
I'm not sure passengers would notice any difference.

Since your post doesn´t sound like sarcasm I simply assume that you have not yourself flown both airlines to be in a position to compare. Especially upfront the difference is huge. Think difference between a 1988 Oldsmobile and a 2012 BMW.

Quoting babybus (Reply 11):
Qatar Airways are good but they are also very expensive to fly with. I'm not sure the Greeks can afford that luxury these days.

Again, check your facts. In most markets QR is actually among the lowest priced carriers. Most of their markets are longhaul markets, so there is no competition from LCCs. There is some competition from LCCs in some of the regional markets in the Gulf region, and there indeed QR is relatively expensive
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 11):
Qatar Airways are good but they are also very expensive to fly with.

And there was me reading only in another thread on here that QR's fares are so cheap because the company has no need to turn a profit.  

I have to say, QR has, in my opinion, the most bang for your buck than any other airline, especially J class. In these tough economic times, I go where I feel I'm getting the best value for money.

How you can call them expensive is beyond me.

Rgds

[disclaimer: 19 long haul return trips with them, so might be accused of fanboyism]
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Cubsrule
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting mozart (Reply 14):
Qatar flies between Athens and New York only because it is interested in the Athens-New York market.

Well, yes and no. They are apparently also interested in DOH-ATH, and whatever NYC-DOH traffic they can get. I don't know the structure of the QR hub at DOH to know how valuable a mid-day arrival would be as opposed to the current 1835 local, but it would seem to give QR some scheduling flexibility given that JFK-ATH will almost certainly leave quite a bit before JFK-DOH leaves (2220 local).
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United787
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:26 pm

I am assuming that QR has 7th freedom rights for this route? How did that happen? Forgive my ignorance on this.
 
ETinCaribe
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 2):
By the way, can Athens even handle an A380? Last time I checked they couldn't.

DONE. Al Akbar just slapped it on his Amex  
Quoting swallow (Reply 7):
Similar routings are:

SQ: SIN-FRA-JFK, and

NZ: AUK-LAX-LHR

yeah but DOH-ATH is only 1800sm...

Quoting mozart (Reply 13):
SQ and NZ have to stop in FRA and LAX respectively because the planes need to make a technical stop.

Don't they have 5th freedom? I am pretty sure SQ does on the FRA-JFK segment as a friend had taken it in the past IIRC. Regardless, I agree that teh stopover may be a necessity (esp for the SIN-JFK route, as SIN-EWR is the longest commercial flight IIRC)
 
swallow
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:53 pm

It seems to me that QR is taking advantage of the vacuum left by the demise of OA to offer flights to NYC.

AAB has seen a gap in the market and is going for it.

He must have somehow obtained the rights, or QR wouldn't be announcing these flights.

If you underestimate the power of Qatari $$$, just ask Cargolux. Unfortunately, they found out the hard way that AAB is not the easiest of investors to deal with
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3rdGen
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:04 pm

Middle East carriers flying Europe-North America might become a new phenomenon. The recession is taking a big hit on many European airlines. As these airlines start making cut backs on routes it leaves the door open for ME carriers. Might we see a few Gulf - North/South America via Spain?

The EU - US is an open-skies market if I'm correct, can any airline (i.e. non EU or US) fly and carry pax between two points in the EU and US
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SXDFC
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:16 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
But who would you rather fly, Delta, old aging 767 with so so service, or Qatar in a brand new 787 and superior service?

People always tend to gravitate towards what ever airfare is the cheapest, A/C type and appearance mean nothing to them. Back in the 1990's I've heard OA's 742s were old and tatty inside, same with TW, didn't stop anyone from flying them. Like everything else in the world it all boils down to the $$$$
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BasilFawlty
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:23 pm

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 20):
Middle East carriers flying Europe-North America might become a new phenomenon.

Not completely new, KU is operating KWI-LHR-JFK for ages now and they also operated KWI-AMS-ORD until a few years ago, with full fifth freedom rights on both routes.
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mayor
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 11):
Delta's flight attendants are union-protected, they'll get to you when they get to you, if they get to you

Uh, no they're not. NW's used to be, but when the merger went thru, they did a representation vote and the union lost.
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mitris
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 21):
People always tend to gravitate towards what ever airfare is the cheapest, A/C type and appearance mean nothing to them. Back in the 1990's I've heard OA's 742s were old and tatty inside, same with TW, didn't stop anyone from flying them. Like everything else in the world it all boils down to the $$$$

Emmm.... Then Olympic introduced their brand new A340s, and after TWA stopped flying to ATH, Delta's 767s were fairly new as well.

As of now, DL will only be flying non-stop to JFK during the summer. Qatar, however, will be flying all year long with their brand new 787s and A380s. And yes, ATH can handle the super jumbo.

Finally, I would rather pay a little more (if that's the case), and fly with a better airline that offers better service, and brand new fleet like QR.

[Edited 2012-11-28 10:19:18]

[Edited 2012-11-28 10:22:04]
 
usflyer msp
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 20):
The EU - US is an open-skies market if I'm correct, can any airline (i.e. non EU or US) fly and carry pax between two points in the EU and US

No. US and EU carriers can fly any route between the EU and the US. For fifth freedom rights, it is dependent upon the bilateral agreements between the US, EU state, and the carrier's home country.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:10 pm

Sounds like Al shooting his mouth off again...but ok, let's pretend this is real and a good idea 
Quoting migair54 (Reply 5):

ATH-NYC is much bigger market and higher yields, despite the crisis i´m sure they can do a nice revenue.

Negative...they're probably about the same, although HAMNYC is much shorter, for roughly the same fare

Quoting swallow (Reply 7):
NZ: AUK-LAX-LHR

Which apparently loses money.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
Is AAB drunk?!?

  

Quoting mitris (Reply 24):
Qatar, however, will be flying all year long with their brand new 787s and A380s. And yes, Athens can handle the super jumbo.

...with no feed on either end, in a highly seasonal market. Whatever happened to GVAJFK on QR
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jfklganyc
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:11 pm

Delta made the route seasonal. Imo they brought this on themselves.

Exciting news
 
migair54
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:14 pm

We sometimes forgot that many people don´t know about in flight service, in flight entertainment and planes, but obviously after a few months of operation the voice will be spread in Greece and people will start knowing about Qatar Airways and the advantages, but obviously the biggest one will be offering non stop to JFK.

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 20):
The EU - US is an open-skies market if I'm correct, can any airline (i.e. non EU or US) fly and carry pax between two points in the EU and US

No, that´s why they need to get the 5th freedom rights. Same example SQ SIN-BCN-GRU.

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 20):
Might we see a few Gulf - North/South America via Spain?

Yes, we will see, I think QR plans to operate flights to Latin America from MAD or BCN, and now they will be in OneWorld so they can use the IB network to fill some seats as well, maybe we can see any route of the ones IB plans to cut being transfer to QR and operate with B787 or B777.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:24 pm

Does America and Europe have an open skies policy with the likes of Qatar and UAE to fly these sort of routes, which are not from their home countries?

I thought the OpenSkies agreement was only for European and US airlines to fly any routes they like between Europe and the USA.
 
N62NA
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:32 pm

Quoting OlympicATH (Thread starter):
The articles don't specify if the flights will originate in DOH and if they will be to JFK or EWR, although JFK seems more likely given QR already flies there.

JFK seems more likely because:

1) QR will be in OneWorld and EWR is not the OneWorld Airport, it's StarAlliance

and

2) It is highly unlikely any airline that isn't UA would begin new service to EWR.
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atlflyer
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:33 pm

If QR uses their 787s for ATH-JFK, will they have to block off seats for crew rest since QR doesn't have that option on their 787s?
 
ASA
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:47 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
Is AAB drunk?!?

Isn't he?!!  

Alcohol or Ego ... that's another story!   
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:02 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 6):
Wouldn't be surprised if in future they route some US services via regional points in the UK for example

In 2006 I predicted that EK might launch DXB-MAN-BOS with a 332. Clearly that never happened, and once EK cut HAM-JFK I figured that we would never see anything like it.

One thing we have to remember is that the MidEast carriers have built up pretty significant frequent flyer bases on both sides of the pond. Linking the two would help them to retain those HVCs, and attract new ones who might be attracted to EK/QR/EY when they go to BOM, but decide to stick with UA/LH or BA since they get FF benefits when they head to Europe.

Note I am not actually insinuating that what I am about to say will actually happen, BUT EK flying a few flights a day from JFK to LHR and FRA could help them drive greater premium demand on their existing routes given the greater appeal to corporate types. If it was possible, it could prove to be a smart strategy to build loyalty and attract high value fares.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 29):
Does America and Europe have an open skies policy with the likes of Qatar and UAE to fly these sort

Well the UAE and USA has open skies, can't say for Qatar but I'm leaning towards saying no. As for the intermediate points, it would depend on the bilateral of that specific country whether they get 5th freedom or not.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
Which apparently loses money.

This is more to do with the fact that no Aus/NZ-LHR flight makes money. The route is simply too long, and relatively low yielding.

There is a reason that QF and NZ love the USA so much: at least from Australia the fares are the same to LAX as LHR, yet the flight is significantly shorter.
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3rdGen
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 23):
Not completely new, KU is operating KWI-LHR-JFK for ages now and they also operated KWI-AMS-ORD until a few years ago, with full fifth freedom rights on both routes.
OK I think you have to put these routes in context vs. the ATH-JFK route. If I'm not mistaken these routes were left over from the days when few planes had the legs to fly Middle East - US non stop. I doubt that KU started the EU-US legs for that specific market, I don't see how an airline of their standing can look to compete with the likes of BA, KLM etc.

QR on the other hand has started the route because they want a share of the ATH-JFK market. QR could easily fly direct DOH-JFK, they already do! They're not rerouting via ATH for fuel, its for the market, the pax. This is the big headline here, when has such a thing happened in the recent past?

All the other examples given here are really those of airlines stopping because they really couldn't fly much further. And as aircraft ranges increased in the 90s and 2000s we've seen a lot of these routes being scrapped, the only one's that remain are those that are still impossible to fly direct. Example is AI's LHR-JFK leg, that had been going on for years and years, and in fact it was a quite well known entity on the route, once the 777LR were purchased it was ceased.

This move is especially striking because of the condition of the Greek economy (and others like it). One can really see QR succeeding and doing very well. There's little to no competition, apart from Delta, and even then I can guarantee that they cannot compete with QRs product. Not in the short term. It'll be interesting to see if this is just a one off thing or if we start to see the ME carriers flying similar routes in the near future.

[Edited 2012-11-28 12:05:38]
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polaris
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:25 pm

If this route is allowed under the bilateral/multilateral air agreements among these countries, then there is no question that this route is possible. The agreements might allow stops en route to the US. The stops might allow fifth freedom rights. However, it is unlikely that the flight will originate in Athens. It would be a Doha - Athens - New York route.
 
klwright69
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:26 pm

Well, this is a shocker. I mean honestly here, if UA is not serving ATH from EWR/IAD, and DL is only going from JFK seasonally, this market must be pretty weak. No US carrier at all year round to Greece, almost unbelievable in my humble opinion.

I have lived in the middle east for 3 years (Saudi and UAE). In my travels to the USA, QR is NEVER EVER the cheapest, and I have never flown them.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:37 pm

What factors are generally considered by US and EU regulators in the decision to grant 5th freedom rights, and how often are applications approved versus denied? Is it a completely arbitrary process? Are some governments more or less likely than others to approve or deny applications? Is there a good analysis of this anywhere that I can read? If the ME carriers suddenly decide that they want to launch a bunch of EUR-USA/Canada routes, will anybody stand in their way? I'm sure that governments are lobbied on one side to protect the interest of their own airlines, while also being pressured to protect the interests of consumers who would be served by the flight in question. I'd be interested to hear more about this from anybody with knowledge of the subject.

[Edited 2012-11-28 11:47:17]
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:40 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 27):
Delta made the route seasonal. Imo they brought this on themselves.

I think the general downturn in the market brought it on DL, not the other way around. QR doesn't stand a chance in ATHNYC; maybe April Fools comes early in Qatar?
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mhkansan
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:58 pm

Where are QR's gates at JFK? Are they at T8 and or do they plan to relocate there? Can T8 handle the 380? I wonder if they would try any Spanish routing DOH-BCN-DFW.

Exciting news from the new oneworld partner!
 
ANITIX87
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:07 pm

QR tried DOH-GVA-EWR a few years back and it didn't last very long. My sister took the flight EWR-GVA-EWR and loved it but if the high-yield GVA-NYC market couldn't support it, why does QR think ATH-JFK can support it when it seems to have been doing just fine for the last 18 months with no non-stop connections?

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3rdGen
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:20 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 37):

No, I doubt that governments in the EU will be throwing 5th Freedom rights around like confetti but I think that Greece is a special case owing to the situation the nation currently finds itself in. Their local carrier has no long haul aircraft (correct me if I'm wrong), and are not flying to JFK. In addition they are not likely to buy wide-bodies any time soon or to start JFK services. Also, its a boost to the economy to maintain these routes. I don't see many NW European countries giving Qatar 5th freedom rights any time soon.

If I'm not mistaken 9W has similar rights to fly pax from BRU to YYZ, JFK, EWR, BOM, DEL, MAA. But again I think this deal was signed at the time that Sabena had gone bankrupt and BRU found that the agreement would be in its favour.
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SCQ83
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:39 pm

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 34):
QR on the other hand has started the route because they want a share of the ATH-JFK market. QR could easily fly direct DOH-JFK, they already do! They're not rerouting via ATH for fuel, its for the market, the pax. This is the big headline here, when has such a thing happened in the recent past?

For Doha originating/connecting customers, they will target the more conscious-money passenger with the stop-over (willing to fly XXX-DOH-ATH-JFK), while they still may fly their higher-paying customers direct (DOH-JFK). And they get the only direct service Greece-US. It makes a lot of sense, if I am not wrong EK does (or did) the same with DXB-BKK-HKG and DXB-HKG direct flights, you can fly to Hong Kong from Dubai direct or doing a stop-over in Bangkok, all in EK metal.

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 41):

True, also not having anymore direct service to the US from Greece might be seen as (almost) a state issue.

Somehow not that different from what happened in BCN, where the regional government pushed for SQ's 5th freedom rights to GRU, so BCN has now a direct service to Brazil, and there is no need to fly via MAD anymore.
 
as739x
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting swallow (Reply 7):

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 4):
Reminds me of EK operating DXB-HAM-JFK.

Similar routings are:

SQ: SIN-FRA-JFK, and

NZ: AUK-LAX-LHR

Lets me honest. Those routes fly thru Alliance hubs. Athens is by no means in the same ballpark with FRA or LAX. not have the financial benefits of these cities.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
lewis
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:47 pm

Weird news indeed. I cannot yet tell if this will fail or be successful. There is a lot of traffic between Greece and the US which is now being solely fed to the European majors. They can be better at handling that since they can direct the traffic to multiple destinations within the US while QR will only have NY to play with. Only time will tell.

Quoting babybus (Reply 10):
They will need something to do with those aircraft, but I think Greece would be better off with a low-cost carrier operating that route. Qatar Airways are good but they are also very expensive to fly with. I'm not sure the Greeks can afford that luxury these days.

Qatar is not that bad price-wise and considering that fares to the US from Greece have skyrocketed since OA and DL pulled out, they can easily attract customers if the price is reasonable. As for who can afford such service, I am glad to report that even if things are bad for a large part of the Greek population, there are people who still have jobs, lodging and an income in the country. And then you have those who have moved all their money to your country's capital to avoid the taxman, who still need their Xmas/Shopping trip to NY every now and then.  
 
AA94
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:55 pm

Just to put the argument to rest here a bit, I did a fare comparison on a JFK-SIN return on several airlines for 16JAN-21JAN. Here's how several carriers stacked up.

UA LGA-ORD-SIN $1080.00
DL JFK-NRT-SIN $1160.00
AA/JL JFK-NRT-SIN $1180.00
EK JFK-DXB-SIN $1360.00
QR JFK-DOH-SIN $1440.00
CX JFK-HKG-SIN $1560.00
SQ JFK-FRA-SIN $1560.00

So while this isn't a scientific study by any means, and it may not apply to all routes that QR flies, I'd say that it would appear that QR charges a bit of a premium. Personally, I would pay it, but some might not want to.

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 17):
Don't they have 5th freedom? I am pretty sure SQ does on the FRA-JFK segment as a friend had taken it in the past IIRC. Regardless, I agree that teh stopover may be a necessity (esp for the SIN-JFK route, as SIN-EWR is the longest commercial flight IIRC)

You are correct. Having a tech stop in FRA is necessary on the JFK-SIN route, but they also have 5th freedom rights, and SQ has turned it into an opportunity to pick up traffic on the JFK-FRA route.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 39):
Where are QR's gates at JFK? Are they at T8 and or do they plan to relocate there? Can T8 handle the 380? I wonder if they would try any Spanish routing DOH-BCN-DFW.

They are at T8 currently. I'm not sure if T8 can handle the A380, but it's a good question to ask.
If you can't take the heat, you best get out of the kitchen
 
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ER757
Posts: 2569
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:01 pm

Quoting OlympicATH (Thread starter):
the flights will be operated with 787 or A380 aircraft.

QR will need to use their limited A380 fleet on high-traffic routes to/from their DOH hub. Only way I could see an A380 on this flight is if ATH were just an en-route stop.
 
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United_fan
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:09 pm

No word on Hellenic Imperial Airways? wikipedia says they suspended long haul waiting for thier A340-300's.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:15 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 38):
I think the general downturn in the market brought it on DL, not the other way around. QR doesn't stand a chance in ATHNYC; maybe April Fools comes early in Qatar?

Are you aware of the Greek population in NYC?

This route went from being flown by Tower, TWA, Delta and Olympic to just DL and Olympic, to just DL and UA (out of EWR) seasonally.

Downturns aside, there is a huge population on the NY side of the river that wants a non stop connection to the homeland. Low yielding? Yes.
High Demand? Absolutely
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 48):
This route went from being flown by Tower, TWA, Delta and Olympic to just DL and Olympic, to just DL and UA (out of EWR) seasonally.

And where are they all now?

Quoting lewis (Reply 44):
that fares to the US from Greece have skyrocketed since OA and DL pulled out,

What's a reasonable NYCATH fare to you?

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 41):
If I'm not mistaken 9W has similar rights to fly pax from BRU to YYZ, JFK, EWR, BOM, DEL, MAA.

Also mostly terrible, and they had a partner in SN.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19304
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 16):
I am assuming that QR has 7th freedom rights for this route? How did that happen? Forgive my ignorance on this.

5th freedom, not 7th freedom. They certainly have 5th freedom rights from the U.S. since U.S.-Qatar is an open skies market. I don't know anything about the Qatar-Greece bilateral but they wouldn't announce the route unless they that bilateral also includes 5th freedom rights.

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 40):
QR tried DOH-GVA-EWR a few years back and it didn't last very long.

If memory correct the only reason QR operated the A332 via GVA at the time was because they didn't have enough aircraft to operate nonstop then. It was only a stopgap, not intended to be permanent.

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