Triple7Lr
Posts: 107
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WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:44 am

I know it's being discussed on the last OAG post, but I think it's worth it's on post. Here's an article from the cranky flyer:

http://crankyflier.com/2012/11/27/so...ng-atlanta-delta-must-be-thrilled/

IMHO I still think its too early to tell.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:38 am

Quoting Triple7LR (Thread starter):

This has worked out, yet again, very well for Delta.

WN did the same when they bought their way into SLC.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:42 am

Too bad. I'm actually cheering for WN in ATL.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
airliner371
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:10 pm

I'm not getting into this thread too much but those of you saying the merger is a disaster, you are way ahead of yourelves, it has barely started, those of you saying it's gonna go down to 100 flights or below, do you realize how many flights would have to be cut compared to what they are at, they'll probably be at about 140-160.
 
strfyr51
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:32 pm

I think you guys are making a bit MUCH about WN @ ATL. What did you expect?? That DAL would run in fear because WN bought Air Tran to get into ATL?? They haven't run in Fear of UA/CO and we have a bunch of flights out of ATL as well. It doesn't work like that WN is a major carrier but they're not the ONLY major, Nobody is getting off of Delta to fly WN There or anywhere else for that matter. Those who are going to fly WN are not flying anyone else and without WN interlining?? Nobody is going to Get off of Delta schlep their bags over to WN to fly them. It's not time saving NOR cost effective. Air Tran and WN don't even have joint counter space. Air Tran's check in counters are over in the Exit Lobby for crying out loud near the Marta exit. across from Baggage claim, IMHO WN is NOT doing themselves any favors with the operation they've got going on there. Many Atlanteans don't even KNOW the two are a single airline and looking at their operation?? I can't see it either. There IS front line counter space available in the North Terminal and WN's counters are NOT so busy that Air Tran has to work in a Corner of the Baggage claim lobby. That's an embarrassment !!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:31 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 1):
This has worked out, yet again, very well for Delta.

Without a codeshare or full integration, it seems to me that the jury has to still be out on the lasting effect on Delta at ATL. My sense of it is that at the end of the day, WN will compete for less traffic, especially connecting traffic, at ATL, but the traffic for which WN competes will be somewhat higher quality. That may be a win for DL on net, but I don't see how that is so blatantly obvious that we can draw that conclusion at this point.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Atlwest1
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:43 pm

Im so exhausted hearing Atl is overrated. Atl is the main city in the southeast. Period. It is the number 9 media market has well over 5million people which is more than many states. It is extremely well connected. It has the largest concentration of federal offices out side of dc. It has a very high wealth rate. It is the most affordable of the top ten wealthy cities. Its a music hub biz hub medical hub rail hub education hub. It is home to hundreds of regionsl headquarters and headquarters to some of the most iconic and well known brands on earth. Does it have flaws of course.

Swa and Airtran do share ticketing facilities in the North terminal they both have the most check ins in that side. The marta checkin area was an ingenious way to make it easier for those riding the train in to access check in.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
 
727LOVER
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:49 pm

When did ATL-ROC end????
This is a bad merger, period.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 6):

And didnt WN say at the time of the merger anouncement, that ATL would be its largest station?
Love Trumps Hate
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:08 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 1):
WN did the same when they bought their way into SLC.

Is WN smaller today than Morris Air was in SLC?

Its becoming more and more clear that WN's real intention was first to get rid of FL and second to have a presence at ATL. WN's costs are too high to operate the 717 and too high to profitability carry connecting pax through ATL.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 7):
I think you guys are making a bit MUCH about WN @ ATL. What did you expect??

I think initially most everyone expected, including Michael Boyd, that WN would operate FL's existing schedule through ATL and would use the 717s in other parts of the system. Plus need adds like BDL, MHT, PVD, OAK

Boyd himself did a study showing that for WN to work in ATL had to operate a hub since over 50% of FL's traffic was connecting. Well once WN said they would pull down the hub, it became clear that they had no intention of beign a big player in ATL since the local market just isnt there. I am now wondering if WN will even serve LGA or DCA since they might want those slots for use to other markets.

WN is a legacy carrier straddled with high costs, though still a productive work force.

If WN simply wanted into ATL with flights to MDW, BWI, HOU, DEN, PHX, LAS I think with the new terminal there would now be enough space for them on E to do so. I am beginning o think WN simply wanted to get rid of FL.

I think in the end WN will serve from ATL
DEN
MDW
BWI
HOU
AUS
SDF (will this last?)
ORF (will this last?)
LAX
LAS
PHX
MCO (need more than 1 flight and need EYW connection)
SFO (interesting they didnt go for OAK)
SEA (will this last AS should add a #3 for summer 13)
SAT

plus
STL (most obvious future add)
MCI
DAL in 2014
FLL
TPA
MKE (part of MKE not ATL focus)

But I could see big markets like BOS, MSP, DCA, LGA gone.
 
Atlwest1
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:20 pm

If they cut it back they drastically their will be a ton of open gate space in Atl. Not to mention they will have lost on a good oppurtunity.

I honestly see them downgrading the atl fl hub but dialing it up in the swa way. They will not ever dominate Atl like they do other markets nor will they even be in the position like they r in Denver. They will coexist with delta. I've said it times before they bring nothing new to Atl that isn't already done or couldn't have been done by Fl.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
 
BOS2LAF
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:23 pm

I'm starting to wonder if WN is creating an opening for B6 in ATL.

Everything I've heard from people I know is that B6 felt that the WN/FL merger would close the door on them returning to ATL. It sounds like it may in fact do the opposite.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:44 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 12):
But I could see big markets like BOS, MSP, DCA, LGA gone.

I don't think WN will hand over LGA-ATL completey over to DL. I dont believe that for a second. FL is making money on this route and WN will make even more. LGA-ATL on WN metal will speak volumes in terms of cargo along with paying pax.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 14):
I'm starting to wonder if WN is creating an opening for B6 in ATL.

Me too

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 15):
I don't think WN will hand over LGA-ATL completey over to DL. I dont believe that for a second. FL is making money on this route and WN will make even more. LGA-ATL on WN metal will speak volumes in terms of cargo along with paying pax.

Youre right, except for slots. The issue will be can WN make more money elsewhere than LGA/DCA-LGA? Which would be profitable I am sure. Are scarce slots better used for markets other than ATL.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:50 pm

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 14):
I'm starting to wonder if WN is creating an opening for B6 in ATL.

I should all that opening will be if WN drops BOS and NYC nonstop from ATL. Also there might be some Florida opportunities if WN doesnt replace FL capacity with WN capacity, like FLL and MCO. ATL-MCO would be a good add for B6 if they continue expanding from MCO to Latin American and Carribbean
 
ouboy79
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:57 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 11):
And didnt WN say at the time of the merger anouncement, that ATL would be its largest station?

ATL was never going to be larger than MDW, PHX, HOU, etc. The company probably said it was going to be one of its larger stations, but definitely not the largest.
 
airliner371
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:05 pm

All I'm gonna say is your all being too negative and you will be pleasantly surprised when you find out you are all wrong.  
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 12):
I think in the end WN will serve from ATL

I would suggest that RDU might stand a chance of hanging in there, although with the cutting of CLT maybe not
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
BC77008
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 3):
ATL is way over-rated. It is like Dubai, a glorified connecting hub, that's all

And the concourses all have the look and feel of being very long single-wide trailers.
"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
 
ouboy79
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:12 pm

One thing that I keep thinking about in all of this. How many markets were DL dumped in mainline or added capacity to compete with FL will see some pretty big cuts coming down the road. That may be something to look at 1 or 2 years down the road and compare back to today. I would not be shocked to see cities with mainline go down to RJs (or 717s) and those that are hanging on with RJs get scaled back.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
Similarly, I don't think WN is going to cede market share in ATL with the plan of re-taking it later against DL. That would make no sense and I'm certain it isn't their strategy.

I agree. My point is that if WN carries (say) two thirds FL's former passengers at the end of the day but those are the better-yielding two thirds of FL's former passengers, I'm not so sure that leaves Delta in a better spot.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:39 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
MSY 3x

I should have added MSY, that is an obvious add for WN

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
I agree. My point is that if WN carries (say) two thirds FL's former passengers at the end of the day but those are the better-yielding two thirds of FL's former passengers, I'm not so sure that leaves Delta in a better spot.

Good point. If WN has good RM, they can accomplish this.
 
Josh32121
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:06 pm

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 24):
And the concourses all have the look and feel of being very long single-wide trailers.

From the outside. Have you been inside? They've spent money on the parts that the customers actually see: the interiors...much like DL has done with its fleet. It's not flashy, but it's reasonably comfortable, and an easy-to-understand layout.

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
I think we will see B6 announce either PHL or ATL in the next couple of weeks.

B6 already gave ATL a go a few years ago and pulled out, right? Do you think WN's acquisition of FL changes enough about the ATL market to justify reopening ATL? There is TONS of capacity between ATL-NYC already with AA, DL, FL/WN, and UA. Would it make sense for them to try again in such a diluted market (although ATL-JFK admittedly only has a few DL flights a day)?
 
catiii
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:09 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 6):
but those of you saying the merger is a disaster, you are way ahead of yourelves, it has barely started

"Barely started?" It's been over two years since the announcement of the merger. . .
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:10 pm

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 30):
B6 already gave ATL a go a few years ago and pulled out, right?

Yes, but they were flying ATL-LGB, not anything that "2012 B6" would fly.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting Catiii (Reply 31):
"Barely started?" It's been over two years since the announcement of the merger. . .

No kidding- 2 years after the much larger DL/NW merger had begun, the airlines had been 100% integrated for 6 months (except for the FAs).
Chicks dig winglets.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:57 pm

When WN announced the sale of the 717's where did everyone think those lines of flying would mostly affect? No surprise to me that ultimately ATL would take a big hit.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 32):

Also B6 didn't have smaller E90s then. I'd could see B6 flying ATL-MCO 3x daily with E90s connecting to Latin Anetica carribbean. B6 should also do one daily EWY from MCO.
 
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enilria
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:10 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
Similarly, I don't think WN is going to cede market share in ATL with the plan of re-taking it later against DL. That would make no sense and I'm certain it isn't their strategy.

I agree. My point is that if WN carries (say) two thirds FL's former passengers at the end of the day but those are the better-yielding two thirds of FL's former passengers, I'm not so sure that leaves Delta in a better spot.
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 27):
Good point. If WN has good RM, they can accomplish this.

I think they will definitely be better yielding, but WN's costs are also much higher.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 27):
Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
MSY 3x

I should have added MSY, that is an obvious add for WN

  

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 30):
Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
I think we will see B6 announce either PHL or ATL in the next couple of weeks.

B6 already gave ATL a go a few years ago and pulled out, right?

Yes, but they were flying to LGB/OAK. They won't do that again. They did JFK the last couple of months of the service to route the A/C/.

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 30):
There is TONS of capacity between ATL-NYC already

I'm not really thinking they will add JFK, although FL just dropped 3 RTs to LGA. I think they will do BOS/FLL/MCO. They will probably run WN out of the BOS market from ATL.
 
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United_fan
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:30 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 11):
When did ATL-ROC end????
This is a bad merger, period

It's still on , at least til WN comes to town in April . Actually,it's been up-sized to a 73G as TRS603.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TRS603
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
ouboy79
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:36 pm

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 35):
No kidding- 2 years after the much larger DL/NW merger had begun, the airlines had been 100% integrated for 6 months (except for the FAs).

Then you look at UA/CO who are still having major issues. WN/FL I would say is pretty close to the middle. However, and this is my opinion, WN/FL isn't a merger. It is pretty much just an acquisition where they are methodically integrating parts of the company. When you look at the others they slapped the unifying brand on the entire fleet regardless of on board layout and such. WN could easily just decide to brand everything as Southwest, but they want the brand experience to be the same.

Everyone has their opinion on how this has gone. Personally I would have liked to see everything move over and just leave international on the FL res system to book. However, there are people in a higher pay grade that are making those decisions while keeping the company profitable.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 40):
Then you look at UA/CO who are still having major issues. WN/FL I would say is pretty close to the middle. However, and this is my opinion, WN/FL isn't a merger. It is pretty much just an acquisition where they are methodically integrating parts of the company. When you look at the others they slapped the unifying brand on the entire fleet regardless of on board layout and such. WN could easily just decide to brand everything as Southwest, but they want the brand experience to be the same.

Everyone has their opinion on how this has gone. Personally I would have liked to see everything move over and just leave international on the FL res system to book. However, there are people in a higher pay grade that are making those decisions while keeping the company profitable.

UA/CO should have been a monster by now... but thankfully Smisek couldn't manage his way out of a cardboard box.

WN's way of doing things is hardly methodical. It is more akin to running head first into a wall over and over again and hoping you find an open door. You are correct it's definitely being treated as an acquisition... whatever is the southwest way is going, regardless if it is extremely inefficient or antiquated. It is quite humorous watching that bite them in the rear end when it comes to international flying!

I'm enjoying watching the train wreck, though.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 43):
In its current state it's primarily a low-yielding, high volume connecting hub

Which makes me wonder why AirTran ever flew ATL-CLT, from one "low-yielding, high volume connecting hub" to another.

Apparently it had the lowest O&D traffic in the network, so I'm actually surprised that it lasted as long as it did after the merger.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 21):
I would suggest that RDU might stand a chance of hanging in there

To expand on my own point, I think that as RDU has a lot less destinations than CLT then there might be some value in it as a route, although that depends on how long ATL remains as a "hub". Nonetheless I would guess (but am happy to be proven wrong) that the O&D market between RDU and ATL is larger than BWI-ORF or MSY-BHM which are current WN routes.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Triple7Lr
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:44 pm

Just curious. Does anyone think it matters that WN doesn't offer First or Business class or have lounges? I know to the everyday leisure traveler it doesn't matter but what about the business traveler? What perks can WN offer besides free bags and no change fees which can be waived by other airlines depending on your status?
 
727LOVER
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:46 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 19):
All I'm gonna say is your all being too negative and you will be pleasantly surprised when you find out you are all wrong.

Well since WN made FL quite my hometown airport after many years,, HOW will I be pleasantly surprised.....HMMMMM??????

Quoting United_fan (Reply 39):
It's still on , at least til WN comes to town in April . Actually,it's been up-sized to a 73G as TRS603.

Well, it was on that map in the blog, that's why I asked.

I keep wondering, if the DOT had forced DL to give up NW's four ATL gates, and WN had aquired them, would WN have even bothered with FL?
Love Trumps Hate
 
airliner371
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting Catiii (Reply 31):
"Barely started?" It's been over two years since the announcement of the merger. . .

And for about a year and a half they didn't do anything. The route changes are just getting into swing.

Quoting enilria (Reply 38):
They will probably run WN out of the BOS market from ATL.

No, they wouldn't. WN is at ATL for business passengers and they know they have to serve NYC, BOS, CHI etc... Thats why you haven't seen those end nor will you.

Quoting enilria (Reply 38):
although FL just dropped 3 RTs to LGA.

They dropped one of them over a year ago and the 2 less doesn't happen until July.

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 42):
It is quite humorous watching that bite them in the rear end when it comes to international flying!

They haven't done anything wrong internationally, actually they continue to expand the recent additions. But when you look at your posts below you clearly won't say anything nice about any airline other then your favorite.

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 42):
but thankfully Smisek couldn't manage his way out of a cardboard box.
Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 42):
I'm enjoying watching the train wreck, though.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:52 pm

Quoting Triple7LR (Reply 45):

Just curious. Does anyone think it matters that WN doesn't offer First or Business class or have lounges? I know to the everyday leisure traveler it doesn't matter but what about the business traveler? What perks can WN offer besides free bags and no change fees which can be waived by other airlines depending on your status?

I know WN is losing a pile of traditional FL customers for that very reason. I don't think singing FAs or free bags can make up for zero premium product!
Chicks dig winglets.
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:25 pm

Those that were sitting in FL's "first class" are not sitting in DL's premium cabins. Comparing the FL "premium cabin" to DL's is like comparing apples to cucumbers.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
BD338
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:42 pm

If WN are "retreating" in ATL and DL is "Thrilled" then all that means is that supply and demand is swinging towards DL having more pricing power in some markets. So get used to paying more. Be careful what you wish for.

I'm not convinced WN was ever going to maintain a full FL sized hub at ATL. They probably bought them for several reasons,including to integrate the effective parts into the WN network that could operate at the WN cost model level most profitably. The fact ATL (or any other aspect of the FL model) worked for FL doesn't necessarily mean it will work as WN+FL. I doubt it was ever considered that FL and its ops/network would be a mere 'bolt on' to the existing WN network. WN wanted some access to ATL to their major cities, but not necessarily all that came with FL. They got what they wanted, sliced off the bits they didn't need and redistributed assets around the rest of the company...i.e they merged the companies.
 
lasmike
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 7):
Air Tran and WN don't even have joint counter space. Air Tran's check in counters are over in the Exit Lobby for crying out loud near the Marta exit. across from Baggage claim, IMHO WN is NOT doing themselves any favors with the operation they've got going on there. Many Atlanteans don't even KNOW the two are a single airline and looking at their operation?? I can't see it either. There IS front line counter space available in the North Terminal and WN's counters are NOT so busy that Air Tran has to work in a Corner of the Baggage claim lobby. That's an embarrassment !!

The Airtran ticket counter you describe is a satellite counter for the benefit of customers coming off of MARTA. The main Airtran ticket counter is adjacent to the WN ticket counter in the north lobby. It's much larger than the satellite counter.
a first class dude in an economy world
 
lasmike
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:06 pm

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 48):
Just curious. Does anyone think it matters that WN doesn't offer First or Business class or have lounges? I know to the everyday leisure traveler it doesn't matter but what about the business traveler? What perks can WN offer besides free bags and no change fees which can be waived by other airlines depending on your status?
I know WN is losing a pile of traditional FL customers for that very reason. I don't think singing FAs or free bags can make up for zero premium product!

WN premium flyer program is called A List and A List Plus Rapid Rewards. They get a check in by pass lane so they don't have to wait in the regular lines. They also get access to the premium security lanes in most airports. They automatically get low boarding pass numbers reserved for them starting with A16 with A List Plus getting priority over A List. They also get priority stand by privileges.
a first class dude in an economy world
 
MSPNWA
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:02 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 44):
Which makes me wonder why AirTran ever flew ATL-CLT, from one "low-yielding, high volume connecting hub" to another.

Apparently it had the lowest O&D traffic in the network, so I'm actually surprised that it lasted as long as it did after the merger.

I wonder that too, especially since FL wasn't raking in the cash. Like today FL flew its usual 3 flights to CLT. That compares to 12 for DL and 11 for US. Three flights for cheap connecting fares can't be worth it. Not a surprise that WN will fly to CLT from elsewhere.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:51 am

I don't see how this is such a big surprise. Besides the few people that thought WN was going to be a "super strong competitor that will make DL bleed a lot more cash" most of us knew that WN doesn't run hubs and would probably drop most of the smaller cities while building up routes to the usual cities and make ATL a large WN station, similar to MDW or DAL or whatever, and not a massive FL-like hub
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
southwest737500
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:27 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 57):

Flying CLT-ATL-PIT on AirTran tomorrow

Oh yeah they must be making some money if there adding a 4th flight and its on a 737. Alot of people pick on CLT to much
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
southwest737500
Posts: 611
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:35 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 57):

11 DL and 9 US and 3 FL
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
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par13del
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:44 am

So, it is becoming more apparent the WN strategy.

1. FL is no longer a competitor to WN, is that more important than ATL?
2. WN now has access to ATL

Missing anything?
 
FWAERJ
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:57 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 61):
Missing anything?

3) WN can fly internationally
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
jporterfi
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:02 am

WN cutting FL service in ATL

Quoting BD338 (Reply 52):
I'm not convinced WN was ever going to maintain a full FL sized hub at ATL. They probably bought them for several reasons,including to integrate the effective parts into the WN network that could operate at the WN cost model level most profitably. The fact ATL (or any other aspect of the FL model) worked for FL doesn't necessarily mean it will work as WN+FL. I doubt it was ever considered that FL and its ops/network would be a mere 'bolt on' to the existing WN network. WN wanted some access to ATL to their major cities, but not necessarily all that came with FL. They got what they wanted, sliced off the bits they didn't need and redistributed assets around the rest of the company...i.e they merged the companies.

  

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 48):
I know WN is losing a pile of traditional FL customers for that very reason. I don't think singing FAs or free bags can make up for zero premium product!

WN isn't PMFL and it sure as hell isn't DL. WN has a certain business model, and adding premium services like business class is not part of it and will not become part of it.

Quoting enilria (Reply 38):
I think they will do BOS/FLL/MCO.

So much for my hope of using B6 to fly from ATL to LAX/LGB/BUR.    None of those airports are great connection points for travel to the West Coast. I guess B6, if they return to ATL, would want to focus on getting ATL passengers on nonstop itineraries to East Coast destinations.
 
vatveng
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RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:06 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 25):
How many markets were DL dumped in mainline or added capacity to compete with FL will see some pretty big cuts coming down the road. That may be something to look at 1 or 2 years down the road and compare back to today. I would not be shocked to see cities with mainline go down to RJs (or 717s) and those that are hanging on with RJs get scaled back.

Well, a funny thing happened at Newport News (PHF). Right after AirTran pulled out, Delta pulled all of their mainline service from PHF. But the RJs filled up. So now Delta mainline is back in Newport News, in the form of a daily MD88 to Atlanta.
 
airliner371
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:22 am

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 63):
WN has a certain business model, and adding premium services like business class is not part of it and will not become part of it.

But if you look back, the same would have been said about WN adding LGA, BOS, MSP and all those major airports they started. Eventually WN will have some kind of premium cabin, whether it is first, business or premium economy, they will have something.

Quoting par13del (Reply 61):
1. FL is no longer a competitor to WN, is that more important than ATL?
2. WN now has access to ATL
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 62):
3) WN can fly internationally

4) WN gets relatively new 737-700s
5) WN gets more gates in MDW
6) Service to DCA (they probably wouldn't apply for DCA-AUS without knowing they have FL slots)
7) Greatly expanded LGA operation
8) 25 new destinations they are keeping
9) Going back to the ability to fly Internationally, they also get experience so they don't have to learn from mistakes
 
MSPNWA
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

RE: WN Continues Cutting ATL, DL Must Be Thrilled

Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:51 am

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 59):
Flying CLT-ATL-PIT on AirTran tomorrow

Oh yeah they must be making some money if there adding a 4th flight and its on a 737. Alot of people pick on CLT to much

That's the type of routing that probably won't be making FL any money. Just filling seats.

It's not matter of picking on CLT. It's simply that the 10th and 33rd largest metro areas can't support three airlines and over 20 daily mainline flights between them (a trip that's drivable I might add). Something had to give, and that's clearly the weakest party with little to gain and much to lose by keeping it.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 60):
11 DL and 9 US and 3 FL

Both airlines had an extra section today on CLT-ATL. Then threw me off. 11 and 9 normally.

[Edited 2012-11-30 18:53:22]

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