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TK787
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Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:48 pm

Happy 6th anniversary to our "Turkish Aviation" threads!
Thank you everyone for making these threads informative, fun and free of political or personal attacks over the years.


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Photo © Szabo Gabor



I know we talk a lot about TK, but there is always exciting news about TK. But here I start with Pegasus;
-Pegasus order appearantly a done deal, probably an announcement will be made for 70+30 aircraft, A320NEOs.
-TK order of 15+5 77Ws, could very well be already decided at 20.
-TK 333s starting to arrive next year. ( 2 frames)
-TK to order 100 narrow bodies soon. Split??
-New Istanbul airports first phase might not be ready till after 2016.
-AC to start IST 3 x weekly with 763s, and AC and TK to codeshare.
-Hamdi Topcu of TK said TK would fly to 35 destinations in Africa by the end of the year back in January. Fack check; he is pretty close.
-TK to open 33 new routes in 2013; and here is a wish list from TK (thanks to Leftyboarder) please correct if wrong!


Abha
Abuja
Al-Qassim
Asmara
Aswan
Atlanta
Boston
Buenos Aires
Caracas
Colombo
Constanta
Douala
Esfahan
Havana
Houston
Kano
Kermanshah
Kharkiv
Kilimanjaro
Krakow
Libreville
Luanda
Luxembourg
Luxor
Malta
Manila
Marseille
Mexico City
Mombasa
Montreal
Niamey
Ouagadougou
Salzburg
San Francisco
Santiago de Compostela
Tallinn
Vilnius
Yaunde

Please take it from here and welcome everyone!
TK787

[Edited 2012-11-30 11:21:35]

[Edited 2012-11-30 11:22:49]
 
SCQ83
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:55 pm

A Coruña (LCG) has been discarded and switched to Santiago de Compostela (SCQ). Time schedules are already official and tickets for sale:

http://airlineroute.net/2012/11/30/tk-scq-s13/

Quote:
Turkish Airlines starting 21MAY13 will launch Istanbul Ataturk – Santiago de Compostela service, on board Airbus A319 aircraft. Service operates 3 times a week.

Schedule:

TK1319 IST0900 – 1245SCQ 319 257
TK1320 SCQ1350 – 1915IST 319 257

SCQ is TK’s 6th destination in Spain.
 
kaitak
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:04 pm

Congratulations on six terrific years; it's always been interesting to read the Turkish threads, and great to see how fast TK is expanding (and that DUB is part of that network!).

Looks like 2013 is going to be another exciting year for TK, with lots of new destinations - looks like it will be more than EK, EY and QR put together - and good to see that the airline is solidly in profit.

Just two questions I have, in relation to the airline's fleet choices. The airline's recent WB order has been split pretty much fifty/fifty - in numbers, if not necessarily in dollar value. I think we all expect a split between the Neo and the Max for the new WB order, but to what extent does government "guidance" come in here? Is TK still required/"encouraged" to split orders between Boeing and Airbus? I ask this principally because compared to a few years ago, Turkey's geopolitical importance has increased very much; ok, it was always important, but with the collapse of the Syrian regime (imminent), the isolation of Iran and the confusion over Egypt's direction, Turkey is pretty much the regional powerhouse ... why does Turkey still need to please both the US and Europe when it comes to aircraft orders?

The second question is: with TK building its widebody fleet for the next few years on the 77W and A330, does it not risk falling behind regional competitors who have ordered the A350 and 787; I realise that the question of a possible 787/A350 order has been discussed here at length, but does the recent A330/777 order mean that the "next generation" order has fallen down the priority list?

[Edited 2012-11-30 11:05:42]
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
why does Turkey still need to please both the US and Europe when it comes to aircraft orders?

My humble opinion, it is a matter of getting better pricing and better delivery dates.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
but does the recent A330/777 order mean that the "next generation" order has fallen down the priority list?

TK said 787 is too small for them. We will see a 350 order in the future, I think.
Reminder, TK to go from 36 WB aircraft this year to 69 WB aircraft in the next 5 years.
 
LCYFlyer
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:18 pm

What surprises me is the (planned) addition to Havana. What will the frequency be? Is there even a demand for that route?
Cheers, Pierre
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 3):
TK said 787 is too small for them. We will see a 350 order in the future, I think.

As Kotil said in an interview they initially could order 5 A350s. And this means i won my inofficial bet against you, TK787  
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:25 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1):
A Coruña (LCG) has been discarded and switched to Santiago de Compostela (SCQ). Time schedules are already official and tickets for sale:

Thanks, made changes above.

Quoting LCYFlyer (Reply 4):
What surprises me is the (planned) addition to Havana. What will the frequency be? Is there even a demand for that route?

This is just a wish list. Last months thread there were talks about joining HVN with MEX. Who knows? I was talking to friends in Istanbul. Lots of Havana vacationers amongst them.
This could be seasonal and 2-3 x weekly at best I imagine, if ever.

Were there ever Havana charters by TK?
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 5):
i won my inofficial bet against you, TK787

We had a bet??? Still yet to be determined
 
I would like to remind you, I have a very close friend who is a member, but likes to keep it quiet; "TK350", joined a.net Nov 2007
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 7):
We had a bet??? Still yet to be determined

I would like to remind you, I have a very close friend who is a member, but likes to keep it quiet; "TK350", joined a.net Nov 2007

Yes, look at our names. This is why i said inofficial.

Most probably he is the reason why i have my current name.
 
stylo777
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:27 pm

In last month thread pilotaydin highlighted the importance of the 330 family in TKs fleet. I can only acknowledge that. The two passenger versions as well as the freighter are the real backbone of the longhaul fleet; in my oppinion even more suitable than the 77W. This will get even better when Airbus is able to realise the 242t MTOW version of the 333. Far-East, Africa and the most important parts of Northamerica can be operated very easily and more important economically. As far as I remember they have 15 on order?!?
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:04 pm

Wasn't there talk about Pegasus opening a base at Tymvou in northern Cyprus?
 
LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:13 pm

Happy December. Hopefully those in colder climates stay warm.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
but to what extent does government "guidance" come in here? Is TK still required/"encouraged" to split orders between Boeing and Airbus?

The Turkish state still owns 49% of the airline, it appoints both the CEO and Chairman, and various ministries have their fingers in the airline as well.
I can go into deeper details, but ultimately such major fleeting decisions are not made without blessing of parties in Ankara.


Quoting JU068 (Reply 12):
Wasn't there talk about Pegasus opening a base at Tymvou in northern Cyprus?

A bit back Pegasus was asked by the Turkish Cypriot government about looking into setting up something now that Cyprus Turkish Airlines is long gone. Who knows what will come of this.
Atlasjet similarly looked at such a venture after CTA shutdown, but opted against it.

Btw - the name is Ercan airport located in Lefkosa.

Speaking of Pegasus, I understand they are in talks about possibly buying into, or taking over MyTechnic at SAW.
With a growing fleet, Pegasus wants a hangar and maintenance base, and buying into MyTechnic might be quicker and cheaper than developing the infrastructure organically.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:32 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Btw - the name is Ercan airport located in Lefkosa.

Actually the airport is located in the village of Tymvou, but the airport is also referred to it by that name. From Wikipedia : ' Location Tymvou, Cyprus' . Funnily enough, even flight radar 24 uses Tymvou and not Ercan for flights departing from the north.

Lefkosa is the Turkish name for the city. In English it is Nicosia.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:43 pm

And not to get into politics, but since the airport is in Turkish side of Cyprus it has a Turkish name.

As they say, when in Rome....
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
tk1244
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:36 pm

A quick summary of the situation in Izmir following the comment of LAXintl in the previous thread ("As I recall the the commercial airport at Izmir prior to ADB opening was Cigli"):
Cumaovasi (IZM) was the main airport of Izmir, but became too small to serve Izmir. So all commercial flights were moved to Cigli Air Base (IGL). For a very short period, the commercial flights were shifted from IGL to IZM (1974-1975) and back to IGL (not later than 1977). IZM got demolished and the current Adnan Menderes Airport (ADB) was built instead. I can't really say where IZM was located, but it should be somewhere near or at the current location of ADB.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
A bit back Pegasus was asked by the Turkish Cypriot government about looking into setting up something now that Cyprus Turkish Airlines is long gone. Who knows what will come of this.

What happened to the "North Cyprus Airlines" project?
"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:30 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):

Yes, but we do not speak Turkish on this website but English, hence why it makes little sense to use any name other than Nicosia.

Quoting TK1244 (Reply 14):
What happened to the "North Cyprus Airlines" project?

I think after they were left with no other choice but to close down KTHY, they realized that they do not have the necessary funds to run an airline. On top of it all, the fact that it could not fly directly to any airport beyond Turkey made it even more difficult, especially after increased competition from mainland Turkey.
 
Freshside3
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:31 am

How about Sochi? Many Russians like to go to Turkey for holiday. Also, there is practically nothing that doesn't involve Moscow, that connects North America to Sochi. It would certainly be a natural for TK to do.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 16):

TK already flies to Sochi.
 
Freshside3
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:46 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 17):
TK already flies to Sochi.

Thanks for pointing this out......had to look again. The midnight departure from IST prevents people from pulling it up as a "connection" from the JFK flight. The flights from the states either miss it by a few hours, or there is an extremely long layover. Plus it is non-daily, too. Which is why I had troubles pulling it up in the schedules.

But it is welcome, without question. Hopefully, TK will increase the frequency, in the future, especially with the Olympics coming up in 2014.
 
leftyboarder
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:38 am

And two more destinations from the wish list become real: TK begins Esfahan and Kermnshah; both 2 weekly. Reported by airlineroute.net. Can't paste details as I am posting on my phone...
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:13 am

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 19):
http://airlineroute.net/2012/12/03/tk-iran-dec12/

also this, TK to base 15 planes at SAW next summer, from "tozbek";
http://kokpit.aero/thy-sabiha-gokcen-ucak-base
 
777way
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:01 pm

Airblue plan to resume Istanbul but no date given, the A340 that tech stopped at Ankara was due to crew rest issue according to the airlines unofficial facebook page.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:17 pm

Hello all,

Last month in another thread there was a brief discussion about how some airline network routes can have very high reliance on transfer traffic for their existence.

Following this thread, I was asked my a member if I could share information and provide a bigger network picture for TK to display how routes can be interdependent.

Accordingly here is a long haul route profile for TK that shows how virtually all its longhaul routes rely on huge numbers of hub feed connections. The posted data is looking back 12-months as of June 2012.


Legend is:

Destination / 12-month load factor % / Percent of IST vs Transfer / Top 5 Intl transfer cities

Bangkok / 78% / 41 vs 58% / ARN, CPH, GOT, TLV, HEL
Beijing / 73% / 29% vs 71% / ODS, TLV, OTP, ATH, CDG
Bombay / 82% / 24 vs 76% / TLV, ARN, LHR, IAD, ORD
Chicago / 82% / 47 vs 53% / TLV, BOM, ADD, NBO, IKA
Delhi / 75% / 23 vs 77% / TLV, BCN, IAD, TXL, CPH
Dhaka / 79% / 11 vs 88% / MXP, TIP, IAD, ARN, TLV, ODS, OTP, ALG, KBP
Hong Kong / 75% / 50 vs 50% / TLV, OTP, ATH, VCE, ODS
Johannesburg / 79% / 33 vs 67% / SOF, CPH, ARN, MXP, TXL
Lagos / 77% / 27 vs 73% / LHR, TLV, MXP, DUB, ATH
Los Angeles / 77% / 45 vs 53% / IKA, BEY, TLV, BOM, AMM
New York / 78% / 58 vs 41% / TLV, IKA, NBO, BEY, GYD
Osaka / 71% / 50 vs 50% / BCN, CDG, FCO, TLV, MUC
Sao Paulo / 71% / 36 vs 64% / BEY, ATH, TLV, DEL, PVG
Seoul / 78% / 34 vs 66% / ATH, FCO, BCN, CDG, TLV
Shanghai / 80% / 37 vs 62% / TLV, OTP, MXP, ODS, BCN
Singapore / 86% / 31 vs 68% / ODS, FCO, TLV, OTP, KBP
Tokyo / 74% / 68 vs 32% / CAI, TLV, BCN, ATH, MXP
Toronto/ 83% / 34 vs 66% / IKA, AMM, JED, MHD, CAI
Washington / 74% / 39 vs 61% / BOM, DEL, IKA, ADD, DAC


So as you can see virtually the entire TK longhaul widebody network is heavily reliant in transfer traffic.

The only markets that are primarily IST O&D are New York and Tokyo - not ironically two of TKs first longhaul markets ever with the arrival of the A310 back in 1988 and 1989.

If anyone is curious about other individual markets, I might be able to get the information for those as well.

Quoting TK1244 (Reply 14):
A quick summary of the situation in Izmir following the comment of LAXintl in the previous thread ("As I recall the the commercial airport at Izmir prior to ADB opening was Cigli"):

Thanks for the Izmir history.
As far back as I can remember (into the 1970s) I always flew into Cigli. Never experienced Cumaovasi.

[Edited 2012-12-03 08:28:59]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Freshside3
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:32 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
Accordingly here is a long haul route profile for TK that shows how virtually all its longhaul routes rely on hub feed connections for support. The posted data is looking back 12-months as of June 2012.

I really like this chart a lot!! Wish there were more displays of this kind, showing these statistics.

Some make sense right out of the box..........others are really surprising.
 
leftyboarder
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):

Amazing data, thanks a lot! Would love to see more. It seems that TLV feeds a lot of the long haul network, even more than IKA or BEY... And what's up with ODS being on top for PEK?
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
Osaka / 71% / 50 vs 50% / BCN, CDG, FCO, TLV, MUC
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
Tokyo / 74% / 68 vs 32% / CAI, TLV, BCN, ATH, MXP

Wow... thanks a lot for this data, really impressive!! Why is there so much demand between Turkey and Japan? Business or leisure?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
If anyone is curious about other individual markets, I might be able to get the information for those as well.

Do you have the numbers for Belgrade? I am really curious to see what the demand is like. Also Mogadishu would be interesting to see.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:32 pm

Something seems to have gone wrong with the formatting with Dhaka and we lost the Guangzhou entry.

Here they are again.

Dhaka / 79% / 11 vs 88% / MXP, TIP, IAD, ARN, YYZ
Guangzhou / 71% / 27% vs 73% / TLV, ODS, OTP, ALG, KBP
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ankaraflyjet
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:57 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):

Great information really.

Is it possible to have the information for domestic feed in Turkey for TK's long haul ex IST operation if possible?
 
LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:16 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 24):
It seems that TLV feeds a lot of the long haul network, even more than IKA or BEY...

Yes TLV is big for TK, although Iran is bigger - but traffic in Iran is split up with multiple service points of Tehran, Shiraz, Tabriz, Mashad..

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 24):
And what's up with ODS being on top for PEK?

Not sure.

Could be some Chinese construction related traffic. For instance for a couple years TK flew lots of Chinese construction workers to Algiers on government infrastructure projects.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 25):
Wow... thanks a lot for this data, really impressive!! Why is there so much demand between Turkey and Japan? Business or leisure?

A bit of both.

I know the Japanese were one of the first non European large investors in Turkey. Over 140 Japanese firms have offices in Turkey and they are involved in everything from large scale infrastructure projects, various manufacturing, to logistics.

Also for NRT keep in mind its schedule timing is very different then the remaining TK Far-East services so its carries more local traffic then wide range of transfers.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 25):
Do you have the numbers for Belgrade?

Here you go..

Belgrade / 72% / 45 vs 55% / DXB, GYD, KWI, DOH, BEY

Quoting JU068 (Reply 25):
Also Mogadishu would be interesting to see.

Dont have it as the route is new (launched March 2012) and not generated 12-months of history.

However from what I have heard it basically carries folks from all over Europe. So wherever there is a Somali diaspora it should likely feed it.

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 27):
Is it possible to have the information for domestic feed in Turkey for TK's long haul ex IST operation if possible?

Sure but its pretty predictable.

Ankara, Izmir, Antalya, Adana, Kayseri were the largest domestic feed producers to IST.

But if you would like to know the top beyond markets for Ankara traffic, they are:

LHR, AMS, BRU, CDG, GYD, VIE, FRA, JED, TXL, MED

[Edited 2012-12-03 10:31:41]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:40 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
Belgrade / 72% / 45 vs 55% / DXB, GYD, KWI, DOH, BEY

Thanks for the information. Interesting that Dubai still ranks as number one since flydubai operates between the two. Another interesting is Doha, I guess Qatar has some O&D market to reply upon now that they fly to Belgrade.
 
Freshside3
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:50 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 24):
Amazing data, thanks a lot! Would love to see more. It seems that TLV feeds a lot of the long haul network, even more than IKA or BEY... And what's up with ODS being on top for PEK?

There is less TLV out of the USA. No service on LY out of ORD or MIA anymore, so that forces people to use other gateways/hubs. In turn, with the Americans taking seats on other parts of Europe to TLV, this forces other non-Europeans to take alternative routings, depending on the day, of course, since the flights are often full.

As far as ODS goes, you can see it on the top list of a number of the lists. Much of this has to do with the general lack of service into ODS, relatively speaking, considering the amount of people that go there.

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 27):
Is it possible to have the information for domestic feed in Turkey for TK's long haul ex IST operation if possible?

I'm really curious on where people from Batman(BAL) go to......
 
TurkishWings
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:11 pm

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
-AC to start IST 3 x weekly with 763s, and AC and TK to codeshare.

Does anyone have any more info / link on this? I can not find much online...

I need to take a weekend trip to YYZ next October and TK prices are very high. Maybe AC may come to the rescue  
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
Freshside3
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:29 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 15):
I think after they were left with no other choice but to close down KTHY, they realized that they do not have the necessary funds to run an airline. On top of it all, the fact that it could not fly directly to any airport beyond Turkey made it even more difficult, especially after increased competition from mainland Turkey.

Didn't KHTY have a flight to Skopje, at one time??
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:35 pm

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 32):

They used to fly to various places around Europe but with one stop in Turkey.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:06 pm

Thanks a lot for the info, LAXintl!

I am very curious about the connecting traffic to and from Spain.  
Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 30):
I'm really curious on where people from Batman(BAL) go to......

Gotham City? (I know it is too easy...)

[Edited 2012-12-03 12:30:43]
 
LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:50 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 29):
Thanks for the information. Interesting that Dubai still ranks as number one since flydubai operates between the two. Another interesting is Doha, I guess Qatar has some O&D market to reply upon now that they fly to Belgrade.

Sometimes just because someone enters the market does not mean a shift of traffic. Especially with an LCC they can generate all new demand with low fares. I also suspect people might use the FZ BEG flight from other cities in the region such as Zagreb to Budapest etc..

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 30):
I'm really curious on where people from Batman(BAL) go to......

Not Transylvania -- ha ha

I don't have it as its a rather small market, but if its anything like other regional Turkish markets it should be primarily to Germany, and depending on religious nature of the population to JED/MED also possibly.

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 31):
Does anyone have any more info / link on this? I can not find much online...

We even have a thread on it..
Air Canada Announces Major International Expansion (by dcann40 Nov 29 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 34):
I am very curious about the connecting traffic to and from Spain.

Here you go..

Barcelona / 70% / 55 vs 45% / DEL, BEY, ICN, IKA, DXB
Madrid / 69% / 54 vs 46% / BEY, DEL, ICN, IKA, PEK
Malaga / 64% / 51 vs 49% / IKA, KWI, DXB, BEY, DOH
Valencia / 62% / 56 vs 44% / BEY, PVG, IKA, PEK, DXB
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
SCQ83
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:04 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 35):
Barcelona / 70% / 55 vs 45% / DEL, BEY, ICN, IKA, DXB
Madrid / 69% / 54 vs 46% / BEY, DEL, ICN, IKA, PEK
Malaga / 64% / 51 vs 49% / IKA, KWI, DXB, BEY, DOH
Valencia / 62% / 56 vs 44% / BEY, PVG, IKA, PEK, DXB

Thanks.

It seems to be a good mix of Middle East, India and East Asia there. I am surprised to see IKA is on the Top 5 in all of them (1st from AGP!)... BEY is not that surprising (no direct flights Lebanon-Spain).

VLC seems to rely more on East Asia traffic (no EK/QR from there) and AGP on the Gulf (Marbella in Malaga is a very popular destination for Gulf Arabs).

[Edited 2012-12-03 14:04:46]
 
777way
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:19 pm

Nothing on KHI nd ISB?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:22 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 35):
Sometimes just because someone enters the market does not mean a shift of traffic. Especially with an LCC they can generate all new demand with low fares. I also suspect people might use the FZ BEG flight from other cities in the region such as Zagreb to Budapest etc..

Well, the reason why I mentioned it is because flydubai has become extremely popular in Serbia. Now during the holidays they intend on flying almost double daily. I didn't expect Dubai to remain as number one on the list. It will be interesting to see what impact Qatar will have on them.

Could you please provide me with numbers for Riga, a friend of mine is asking. Thanks.

[Edited 2012-12-03 14:25:05]
 
Turkish350XWB
Posts: 463
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:22 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 37):
Nothing on KHI nd ISB?

Mathematically difficult as these destinations are served with lower capacity (aircraft and frequencywise). So the total number of pax is smaller as well, leading this destinations not to be in the top 5.

The LF of the Spanish destinations seems to be quite low in general. SIN LF is quite high. Maybe a sign to switch to bigger aircraft or to add higher frequency.
 
777way
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:29 pm

I'm surprised TK have not won over Pakistani travellers since they have been f;ying here since before the ME3 existed, infact they went down from wide body to narrrow twice from A310 and A330/340.
 
Tupolev160
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:07 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:38 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):

Very interesting data. Appreciate the effort. Would be great to see the numbers and destinations for ZAG, SKP, SJJ, PRN and SIP as well. For ZAG would be nice to know the data prior and after QR arrival to the city (2011 vs. 2012).
Also i always wondered what was TK's loadfactor to central Asian destinations as well as Russian and Ukrainian provincial cities? Wonder whether TK has plans to cut some of those, if they were profitable at all.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
So as you can see virtually the entire TK longhaul widebody network is heavily reliant in transfer traffic.

Honestly i wouldn't have imagined that to such an extend, knowing Turkey is a tourism-powerhouse.

[Edited 2012-12-03 16:27:05]
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
Tupolev160
Posts: 405
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:16 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
Quoting JU068 (Reply 25):
Do you have the numbers for Belgrade?

Here you go..

Belgrade / 72% / 45 vs 55% / DXB, GYD, KWI, DOH, BEY

So we can conclude that most of inter-continental passengers to Asia, North America and others are taken away by SU and other European carriers? Would that mean that with QR's entrace TK might see even lower transiting figures from BEG (and lower O&D thanks to Pegasus)? Since last summer they operate BEG double daily on some days.
As for BEG-BEY the prices still remain irrationally high, around 700$ round-trip out of season.

Other fact, TK experiences extremly sharp competition at KBP on almost all of its destinations. Would you have the numbers for that route, would be interesting to see it.

[Edited 2012-12-03 16:33:19]
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:18 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 37):
Nothing on KHI nd ISB?

Per your request

Karachi / 89% / 41 vs 59% / ORD, IAD, YYZ, LAX, DUB
Islamabad / 73% / 25 vs 75% / IAD, OSL, ARN, DUB, YYZ

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 39):
SIN LF is quite high. Maybe a sign to switch to bigger aircraft or to add higher frequency.

Eventually SIN and CGK will be decoupled giving each destination its own flight.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 41):
Would be great to see the numbers and destinations for ZAG, SKP, SJJ, PRN and SIP as well.

Here is the big one ZAG.

Zagreb / 76% / 48 vs 52 / ICN, DXB, DOH, CAI, IKA

Takes time to dig up all the info others, but a cursory look largest markets for TK are PRN, SJJ, SIP then SKP. Load factor wise the strongest is SJJ.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 41):
Wonder whether TK has plans to cut some of those, if they were profitable at all.

I dont think TK views routes on standalone profitability anymore. They are viewed in the larger context of network benefit and connectivity.

I know for a fact that several rather big name cities are loss making, but its important to have them for the feed and for the sake of serving them due to their popularity.

Its like any airline. A good portion of markets might be loss making on standalone, but their net benefits to the hub is greater then what they produce on their own.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Tupolev160
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:31 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 40):

What i am impressed about is that TK's footprint in Iran isn't higher than that, given the blockades that IR faces.
Does IR has code-share agreements with any European airline for North American flights?

Also i'm completely puzzled by Dhaka being such an important piece in TK's network, incredible numbers, great job LAXintl.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
Tupolev160
Posts: 405
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:38 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 43):
Here is the big one ZAG.

Zagreb / 76% / 48 vs 52 / ICN, DXB, DOH, CAI, IKA

Now that's also astonishing, IKA especially. ICN and CAI for the tourists (Korean and Croatian respectively), DXB/DOH for the expats but IKA i really can't explain.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:24 am

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 44):
What i am impressed about is that TK's footprint in Iran isn't higher than that, given the blockades that IR faces.

The now 5 Iran markets represented almost 700,000 enplanements. I believe TK is the largest foreign airline in Iran these days.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 44):
Does IR has code-share agreements with any European airline for North American flights

They can't codeshare formally to the US, but I know they have ticketing agreements with both TK and KL. For TK they do codeshare on Turkey services.

In the past IR also had deals with Martinair and LTU for connections to the US.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Tupolev160
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:07 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:50 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46):
The now 5 Iran markets represented almost 700,000 enplanements. I believe TK is the largest foreign airline in Iran these days.

What's surprising is that IR still remains the dominant carrier in Iran, despite all the sanctions put upon them. A bit off-topic but anyone would know the exact market share at IKA between IR and foreign carriers? Also, any idea on when IR has been cut-off from the GDS? Thanks.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:33 am

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 45):

There is a lot of O&D demand between Iran and Croatia. A lot of Croats have been living there even during the time of Yugoslavia.
 
northstar80
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:29 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation December 2012

Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:20 am

TK online checkin is not working again. Also, the Miles and Smiles log in does not work. They have been having huge problems with these systems lately, since the last month they were hacked. Lots of passenger information were stolen.