727LOVER
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AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:13 pm

I read in a recent thread that @AA, the 738 has now passed the MD-80 in numbers. With the former fleet growing as the latter fleet kept decreasing, it was only a matter of time.   (sad face for me, I know others will disagree)

So what are the actual numbers for each at this point?



Also,

How many 738 were there before this new batch started coming in?
What was last reg delivered of original batch?
What was first reg delivered of new batch?
Are there even any MD-80s left @ ORD?

Thanx in advance for the answers.  
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jporterfi
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:33 pm

I believe there were 76 738s in the fleet before the new batch.
N978AN was the last reg. of the original batch.
N979AN was the first reg. of the new batch (which first started being delivered in 2009).
These are the routes that AA flies from ORD with MD-80 series a/c: AUS, DCA, DFW (all MD-80s), DEN, LAS (all MD-80s), LAX, LGA, MCI, MCO, MSP, PBI, PHL, PHX, PSP, PVR, RDU, RSW, SJD, STL, TPA, TUS

I was surprised to see so many, considering that 738/MD-80 ratio is quickly increasing!

[Edited 2012-11-30 14:52:38]
 
airstatdfw
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:39 pm

AA still flies ORD-DFW, ORD-STL, ORD-PSP, ORD-RSW, ORD-LGA, I'm sure there are more but those are off the top of my head.
 
777STL
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:29 pm

I think every route out of STL is run with at least one MD80 frequency. STL-LAX, STL-LGA, STL-DCA, STL-ORD, STL-MIA(might be all 757 now), STL-DFW.
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seabosdca
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:40 pm

It will be at least four years before they have enough A319s and 738s (from the next order) to replace all the MD-80s. Enjoy the spotting while you can!
 
ikramerica
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:47 pm

The 738 and A319 allow AA to fly anywhere in the USA from anywhere in the USA (continental) with better efficiency than the MD80, so it's a no brainer that they are going away fast. Personally, I like the quietness of the MD80, but as a tall person who likes the window seat, I don't like the MD80 at the window, and if I ever fly first class, the 18.5" seats don't feel very first class. Traveling as a couple, the 2-3 config is fine, but I have a choice of window cramps or aisle seat where the cart rams into me.

I think the MD80s time has come...
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:59 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):

Interesting. As another tall person, my experience is that the 738 leaves a lot, that the Super 80 doesn't, to be desired. I know their departure is inexorable, so all I can say is it will be a good day for AA when the first Airbus arrives.
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roseflyer
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:15 am

AA is receiving 2-3 737-800s per month (and has been since about March 2009) and is up to about 192 737NGs give or take a few.
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American 767
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:47 am

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 1):
I was surprised to see so many, considering that 738/MD-80 ratio is quickly increasing!

Unfortunately.  
But on the other hand, I'm glad they are getting the A319 and A321.

Quoting airstatdfw (Reply 2):
ORD-LGA,

ORD-LGA is no longer all MD-80, and neither is DFW-LGA. Three months ago, I flew on a 738 from ORD to LGA and I was disappointed. Simply because I was expecting an MD-80. It was a 737, as scheduled, I knew that upon booking on aa.com, I was already disappointed it was a 737 just on that particular flight I was on. I told the F/A I was unpleasantly surprised to see a 737 on that route, she told me that ORD-LGA-ORD was now seeing more 737s.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 3):
STL-MIA(might be all 757 now)

STL-MIA always was all 757 (2x daily). MIA has not seen the Super 80 since the late 90s. But yes, with the exception of MIA, all AA routes out of STL do see the MD-80 at least 1x daily if not more. Until recently, STL was MD-80 heaven like DFW, but of course STL is not as big as DFW is.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 4):
Enjoy the spotting while you can!

And fly on them before it's too late! DFW still sees a lot of them.
I said I was disappointed when I flew ORD-LGA because it was a 737 as opposed to an MD-80, but never mind, two weeks later I flew on an MD-80 from EWR to DFW and back.

The whole point of this topic is how many 737s American has versus how many MD-80s they have, but at some point if you keep counting the 737s you will have to subtract 75 from the total number of 737s. Because those are older than the rest of the fleet. By the time the last MD-80 leaves, the 737 retirement will have begun. I do agree, however, that the ratio keeps increasing because when the 737 retirement will begin, only a few MD-80s will be left.

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jporterfi
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:06 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 8):
By the time the last MD-80 leaves, the 737 retirement will have begun.

Wow, I didn't expect that at all! I guess AA really is counting on the A320 family to be the new backbone of the fleet!
 
tonytifao
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:35 am

ORD-MCO is all Super 80!

There was one month where you found one 738 on this route, but all back to MDs
 
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:28 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 8):
Quoting jporterfi (Reply 9):

I dont think that's quite true, the MD-80s should be gone by 2017. AA started getting 738 in 1999.

But here's an interesting-------when was TWA's last MD-80 delivered? Was it AFTER AA received its first 738?????
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American 767
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:43 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 11):
But here's an interesting-------when was TWA's last MD-80 delivered? Was it AFTER AA received its first 738?????

Yes it was, by a few months. The two events both occurred in 1999: the first 738 was delivered in March or April, and TWA received the last MD-80 built in December.
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:46 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 12):

The first 737-800 was delivered to AA on February 7, 1999... Almost a year before the last MD-80. I think that's an interesting factoid.
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TrijetsRMissed
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:11 am

The inevitable changing of the guard or handing of the baton.

Although DL has a greater McDonnell Douglas history, AA's relationship with the MD-80 line is iconic. As we marvel at some of the massive narrow-body orders in recent memory, we forget that the AA MD-80 fleet was first +250 and later +300 size fleet in airline history.

With personal ties to the MD-80, I'm fortunate that all these years later, with business and personal travel, I'm guaranteed 6-10 legs annually.  
Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
read in a recent thread that @AA, the 738 has now passed the MD-80 in numbers. With the former fleet growing as the latter fleet kept decreasing, it was only a matter of time.

FWIW, according to planespotters both the 738 and MD-80 are equal in active numbers at 192. Regardless, I think we can consider the winter 2012/2013 year as the turning point.

Certainly worthy of a thread starter.   

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Are there even any MD-80s left @ ORD?

For the short term, MD-80 frequencies out of ORD have increased since the summer of 2012.


Quoting American 767 (Reply 8):
STL was MD-80 heaven like DFW, but of course STL is not as big as DFW is.

Ben, speaking of DFW as MD-80 heaven, is DFW-ORD/ORD-DFW still the highest frequency route in the AA network?
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TrijetsRMissed
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:15 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 4):
It will be at least four years before they have enough A319s and 738s (from the next order) to replace all the MD-80s.
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 11):
I dont think that's quite true, the MD-80s should be gone by 2017



It will be a little longer than four years. Technically, the only way 2017 is possible is if AA replace less than 25 752s during that time.

I expect more than 25/130 A321s to be delivered, of the current generation batch.   
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:17 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 8):
By the time the last MD-80 leaves, the 737 retirement will have begun.

DL will purchase AA's old 737s, refurbish the cabins and fly them for another 20 years.
 
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:43 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 14):
Ben, speaking of DFW as MD-80 heaven, is DFW-ORD/ORD-DFW still the highest frequency route in the AA network?

I assume you're talking about highest MD-80 frequency, correct? If you mean frequency regardless of equipment type, I believe DFW-LAX beats DFW-ORD.
 
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 11):

I dont think that's quite true, the MD-80s should be gone by 2017. AA started getting 738 in 1999.

I'm somewhat skeptical of that too. Considering AA still has a number of active MD80s built in the mid 80s, I'm somewhat skeptical that they'll be getting rid of 738s that will be in their mid to late teens at the oldest.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 14):
FWIW, according to planespotters both the 738 and MD-80 are equal in active numbers at 192.

Looks like airfleets shows 186 MD80s and 191 738s. It's probably safe to say the fleets are roughly equal at this point.
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delta88
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:12 pm

AA also does ORD-SAT on the MD-80  San Antonio is one of the MD-80s best homes, an 8000 foot runway, kinda hot and a little high, perfect for the MD-80s, Delta and AA both fly them to SAT, However i think in the future AA will replace them with the A319 or B738   But just thought id Mention one of the longer routes!
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einsteinboricua
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:37 pm

Got two flights on MD80s. Better catch them before they go the way of the three-holers.
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:38 pm

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 17):
I assume you're talking about highest MD-80 frequency, correct?

If he is talking about the highest MD-80 frequency then yes, he is correct. DFW-ORD runs 20x daily or so and all are MD-80s. For a while there was one flight that was a 777, it was meant for repositioning, but I don't think they still fly the 777 on that route. With the exception of that 777 flight, which used to be an MD-11 back in the 90s, all DFW-ORD-DFW flights have been MD-80s for now 20 years.
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ckfred
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:39 pm

I've noticed over the past couple of years that some routes have gotten 738s, and then lost them. ORD-PHX, ORD-LAS, and ORD-TPA have been partially or completely 738 at some point, but they are now all MD-80.

Why does AA do that? Considering that all of these routes skew towards leisure and aren't short hops, one would think that AA would want a more economical aircraft.
 
AmericanAirFan
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:44 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
So what are the actual numbers for each at this point?

It's almost exactly 1:1 or about 1.02:1 (737:MD80 Ratio).

There are 192 737-800s, and 189 MD-80s.

http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/airline.php?cha=AA

[Edited 2012-12-01 10:45:29]
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airstatdfw
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting delta88 (Reply 19):

AA also does ORD-SAT on the MD-80

That is now on CRJ7.
 
igomarch
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:03 pm

as per AA 1dec2012
191 738
188 md80
**********************************************
configuration summary
737 16/132 27
737 16/134 54
737 16/138 1
737 16/144 109
*************************************
R.March
 
AA77W
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:15 pm

Why has American ordered so few A319s? Only 11, IIRC. Seems like a very small number compared to the A321 and 738 order. What is the intended market for the 319s?
 
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:57 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 11):
the MD-80s should be gone by 2017

I would say 2019 at the latest. I'm sure that DFW will remain MD-80 heaven at least for another three years from now. I remember when DFW was 727 heaven during the 80s.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 20):
Better catch them before they go the way of the three-holers.

And when the airlines will start phasing out the NG737s, some people will say: "Better catch them before they go the way of the T tails". Even though CRJs will be still be around for a long time.
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TrijetsRMissed
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:22 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 21):
DFW-ORD runs 20x daily or so and all are MD-80s. For a while there was one flight that was a 777, it was meant for repositioning, but I don't think they still fly the 777 on that route.

IIRC, the 772ER repositioning was removed from the route in 04/2011. I was lucky to get on one of the final legs.
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yyz717
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:45 pm

Quoting aa77w (Reply 26):
Why has American ordered so few A319s? Only 11, IIRC. Seems like a very small number compared to the A321 and 738 order. What is the intended market for the 319s?

The current order is for 12 A319's and 119 A321's (total 131). All 12 A319's will be delivered July-Oct 2013, first A321 delivery in Nov 2013.

No doubt more A319's will be converted from the 119 A321's over time.

I've heard no word on intended routes for the A319 fleet. Initial A321's appear headed for the JFK-LAX/SFO transcon routes replacing the 762 fleet.
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TrijetsRMissed
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:51 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 29):
The current order is for 12 A319's and 119 A321's (total 131). All 12 A319's will be delivered July-Oct 2013, first A321 delivery in Nov 2013.

This is indicative of many 752 retirements. By the time the A321s start arriving, 53 of the 752s will be 20-24 years in age. At the conclusion of this order, only 36 752s will be under 20 years of age (15-19 years).

How many 752s does AA plan to keep in the mid-term? Other than routes like JFK-MAN, where are they really needed?

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 29):
I've heard no word on intended routes for the A319 fleet.

My guess would be DFW - replacing longer MD-83 legs, in which the 738 capacity is not needed.
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AA77W
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:53 am

It just seems odd to me that they ordered such a small fleet of A319s and don't have an intended specialty market for them. I believe that AA has a similar number of 762s dedicated to the transcon service as the number of 319s they have on order. Not to imply that they are or should be using them for transcon flights, just making a comparison with their current "specialty fleet" of 762s.

Do other US carriers have a small fleet of mainline aircraft, like AA will have, that aren't dedicated to a specialty market/route or that aren't in the process of being phased out?
 
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:57 am

Quoting aa77w (Reply 31):
Do other US carriers have a small fleet of mainline aircraft, like AA will have, that aren't dedicated to a specialty market/route or that aren't in the process of being phased out?

Yes. Delta has a small fleet of 737-700s (I think no more than 25 of them) compared to its large fleet of 800s and 900s on order.
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777STL
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:15 am

AA does have a small sub fleet of ETOPs 757s without the international J used on the Hawaii routes. I want to say there is ~15ish of them or so?
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:51 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 8):
MIA has not seen the Super 80 since the late 90s.

Not to be a smart ass - but there is one across Le Jeune Blvd at George Baker Aviation.

I saw one arriving in October 2011 on Rwy 26R and couldn't believe my eyes - never saw where it parked because I was over at 94th Aerosquad. Might have gone to one of the hangars on north ramp for all I know. Could have been that ex MD-80 that just recently got converted into the first MD-80 cargo plane.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 32):
Yes. Delta has a small fleet of 737-700s (I think no more than 25 of them) compared to its large fleet of 800s and 900s on order.

Do they have as much as 25? Last I knew they only had 10 and I thought that they were rumored to go to SWA as part of the deal for the Air Tran 717s.
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:59 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 33):

AA does have a small sub fleet of ETOPs 757s without the international J used on the Hawaii routes. I want to say there is ~15ish of them or so?

Could these not be replaced by ETOPS A321s or is performance an issue here? Perhaps not until 2018 when the NEOs arrive. On another note, did AA ever refurbish the 752s cabins or invest in any other type of mod/upgrade recently?

Perhaps a separate discussion, but is it possible the 752s will retired before the MD-80s? I bet it's closer than we think.
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yyz717
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:03 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 32):
Delta has a small fleet of 737-700s (I think no more than 25 of them) compared to its large fleet of 800s and 900s on order.
Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 34):
Do they have as much as 25? Last I knew they only had 10 and I thought that they were rumored to go to SWA as part of the deal for the Air Tran 717s.

Correct, DL has a sub-fleet of (just) 10 73G's.
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n737aa
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 35):
Perhaps a separate discussion, but is it possible the 752s will retired before the MD-80s? I bet it's closer than we think.

There are already some parked in the desert.

N737AA
 
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seabosdca
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:05 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 35):
Could these not be replaced by ETOPS A321s or is performance an issue here? Perhaps not until 2018 when the NEOs arrive.

The A321 doesn't quite have the legs for Hawaii with a full load. The A321neo will do that mission easily. I'd expect those 757s to be replaced by A321neos.
 
ckfred
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:26 pm

Isn't it conceivable that AA can readjust the number of A319s and A321s over the life of the contract? When AA announced the Airbus and Boeing narrowbody order, it was for A320/A320Neo family and 737NG/737MAX family of aircraft. The only specifics were the number of current A320/737NG aircraft versus A320Neo/737MAX.

My guess is that it's probably easier to just book production slots as A321s, then convert them to A319s, as it gets closer to start of assembly. Also, it could have something to do with the pilots contract. Once a contract is in place, then AA will determine what routes make sense for new RJs versus A319s.
 
777STL
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RE: AA 738/MD-80 Ratio

Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 39):
Isn't it conceivable that AA can readjust the number of A319s and A321s over the life of the contract?

As long as cost is accounted for, I'm sure Airbus doesn't much care which specific variant AA orders.
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