VirginA340
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The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Fri Oct 20, 2000 1:08 pm

This is about a once famous plane that flew with the best only to suffer toward the end. I've just heard rumors that the plane was scrapped. I hope that the rumor are false and that a group of ex and current PA employees can give funding to restore the aircraft so that it can be displayed in an aviation museum


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Photo © Ted Quackenbush


N747PA in her prime.

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Photo © William Tauer


saying good by to an old friend  

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Photo © William Tauer


an end of a glorious era 

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Photo © NEIL RICHARDS


a sad day in aviation  
"FUIMUS"
 
VirginA340
Topic Author
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Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Fri Oct 20, 2000 1:15 pm

This is just a pictorial story about an aircraft that flew around the world only to be left behind and forgoteen. We'll this aviation fan will never forget the many times I've flown on PA's flagship plane. God bless and I hope the rumors are false and that some group with money can step up to the platre and save a major piece of PA history before it's gone forever. Most of the original fleet are now scrapped or flying with Tower in the worst shape from being dirty inside out to having faded interiors. This could be the only one left. It was PA that launched the 1st 747 into revenue service and had a major role in developement; but yet no one is going to have a 747-100 restored in her original PA colors. Sad
"FUIMUS"
 
aa737
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RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Fri Oct 20, 2000 1:15 pm

I might sound like an idiot for asking this, but was N747PA PanAm's first 747?
 
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N202PA
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RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Fri Oct 20, 2000 2:21 pm

Nope, nothing idiotic about that question. A very legitimate one, at that.

No, Clipper Juan T. Trippe (N747PA) was not the first PA 747. That honor went to N733PA, Clipper Young America, which flew the inaugural 747 service in 1970 for Pan Am.
 
LatinPlane
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RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Fri Oct 20, 2000 2:35 pm


Hello,

As a very loyal Pan Am fan, I am very saddened to to tell you that N747PA has now been scrapped. It's last days were spent near Los Angeles at San Bernardino Airport. I like you would have thought that some organization could have at least tried to rescue her and put her in a museum with the original Pan Am colors. But this is America and unlike the europeans there is no room for feelings when it comes to business. Look at how many aircraft many of their national airlines have preserved in their aviation museums. The smithsonian could have cared less!

With the resent news about the demolishment of Pan Am's World Port, I'm just devastated! But the worst came a long time ago in 1991 when I came home from Junior high to turn on the news that Pan Am had shut down...

Can you belive that the first DC-8 is sitting in the dessert waiting the same faith. Where the hell is the smithsonian?



Here are some pictures of the then brand new 747's.


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Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Erik Bentsen



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Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Erik Bentsen



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © John Kelley


Pan Am, World's Most Experienced Airline
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
Guest

RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Fri Oct 20, 2000 2:51 pm

what's up with the hole busted in the front right fuselage in the picture above???
 
Guest

RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Fri Oct 20, 2000 2:57 pm

That's where they load the baggage!   
 
Guest

RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Fri Oct 20, 2000 3:31 pm

The hole came from the Santa Ana's blowing in San Bernardino. It got free from its tie downs and got blown into the hanger there.

But some good news for your guys. The plane has not been scrapped as such. it got shipped to Asia to be made into a Restaurant. I was at Bernardino the other week and that is what the guy in the hanger told me. I saw it at Bernardino a while ago, and did not realize how important it was. My dad flew on that plane about 3 weeks before it was retired from Pan Am.
Iain
 
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N202PA
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RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Fri Oct 20, 2000 4:13 pm

Incidentally, according to the website for the original Pan Am (http://www.panam.org), N747PA was the very last PA 747 in service...probably flying the Miami-Rio run or something right before the very end in early December, 1991.

 
Triple Seven
Posts: 518
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Re. First In Service

Fri Oct 20, 2000 11:37 pm

The first 747 revenue service was supposed to have been flown by Clipper Young America (I certainly think that was N747PAs old clipper name). Clipper Young America taxied to the runway for the JFK-LHR run when an overheating engine no.4 forced it to return to the terminal. Pan Am hurried to get a replacement for Young America and some 8 hours later got the freshly delivered Clipper Victor (less than 48 hours since delivery) to replace Young America for the Pan Am flight 2 flight to LHR.

-Triple Seven
 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
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RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Fri Oct 20, 2000 11:53 pm

I think it went to Korea, or was it Japan ???. Yes Korea I think. Some other planes have gone to Japan to be Sushi bars !!!
 
classic707
Posts: 514
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RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Sat Oct 21, 2000 12:18 am

It is nice to hear that N747PA is not completely gone. It seems that we need some faction here in America to take on the challenge of restoring and preserving historically significant aircraft. You can't count on the Smithsonian, where were they when Pan Am's first 707-121 (N707PA) needed their help?!?  
 
Guest

RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Sat Oct 21, 2000 12:51 am

Since 747's are still flying, whey would we need to 'memorialize' this aircraft. It's one of several hundred still flying. If any single example were preserved that should be adequate.
 
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N202PA
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Re: First In Service

Sat Oct 21, 2000 1:33 am

I thought the story was the other way around--Clipper Victor was supposed to make the first flight, but there was a problem wiith engine 4, so they replaced it hours later with Clipper Young America. However, with some research, I believe it was as you say--Young America (N733PA) was supposed to make the first flight from JFK-LHR, but the engine overheated, leaving the inaugural passengers stranded until a second, brand-new 747 could be readied. This ended up being N736PA, Clipper Mayflower. It would later become Clipper Victor in the '70s.

Interestingly enough, at some point, Clipper Mayflower (ship 736) became Clipper Young America, as Pan Am often rotated clipper names among the aircraft. For what reason they did this, I have no idea. After it became Clipper Victor in the '70s, 736 was the aircraft struck by the KLM 747 at Tenerife, which resulted in the greatest loss of life in world aviation history.

In addition, N747PA never flew as Clipper Young America. It really was just an average 747-121, delivered in 1970--the only thing outstanding about it was that it was ship 747. It entered service as Clipper America (my favorite ship name, although the Clipper America I loved was N202PA, an A-300B4-203), and later was changed to Clipper Sea Lark.
 
trintocan
Posts: 2728
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Sat Oct 21, 2000 1:55 am

The turmoil surrounding this famous Clipper seems rather reminiscent of the fate of Pan Am itself, especially the long slow decline it faced in the last decade of its existence. Let us hope that the good bird is well preserved wherever it goes.

Above all, we can never know where we are going unless we are aware of where we came from.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Sat Oct 21, 2000 2:34 am

I understand the frustration with the Smithsonian regarding the preservation of N747PA as I was equally frustrated 12 years ago when N707PA was chopped.

However, we have to look at reality - which generally means cash.

Preserving large transport aircraft is extremely costly as to exhibit such aircraft, as anything like a realistic airliner, the aircraft systems have either to be kept in working condition (to enable hydraulic powered items to maintain realistic positions) or the items have to be bolted in position in such a way as not to offend the thousands of purists who would complain at extraneous fastenings - and having been involved with a major UK museum at its outset, I can assure you they do.

Either way you have an ongoing or a one time cost.

Then there is storage. If you display outside, the cost of repainting is going to be a regular item (possibly every five years if a decent standard is to be maintained). Then there is regular cleaning as aircraft that don't move get dirty much more quickly and the staining is often unsightly. Both items are very expensive operations and you also have to add in corrosion inhibition treatment every so often.

If you display inside, the building costs for housing a 747 would be massive.

Finally, if you open the aircraft to visitors to walk through, the wear and tear can be enormous.

Boeing do a great job with the VC137 at Seattle, there are some superb exhibits at Cosford and Duxford in the UK and there are other airliners preserved in both flying and static condition around the world, but the sad and simple truth is that these will be the exceptions.
 
Guest

RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Sat Oct 21, 2000 2:52 am

I'll venture that Boeing wouldn't want ANY 747 in a museum at this point. Unless it was the Museum of Modern Art (Technology).

Usually exhibits in a museum are old and being archived. Doesn't look to good when they are still trying sell the same basic aircraft.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Sat Oct 21, 2000 4:04 am

Hey, at least Boeing realizes the value of the first 707 and 747 prototypes.

Boeing will move the Dash 80 prototype to the new annex for the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum when that is opened; Boeing is also planning a new structure to house the 747 prototype at the Museum of Flight.

Unfortunately, Airbus never realized the value of the first A300B1 prototype and that was scrapped some years ago.  
 
advancedkid
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Sat Oct 21, 2000 4:57 am

The most famous Clipper is "Maid Of The Seas", unfortunatly for a sad reason. Hopefully the truth
behind it's disaster would come to light soon.
There's a book written on it by Lester Coleman,
but it sorta baned or difficult to obtain. Does anyone have any info on that?
What happened to the first 727 and the first 737 ?
They were built for United and Lufthansa as versions
22 and 130 respectivly. Anyone knows about them??
Regards all
Advanced 727-230 D-ABKT
 
Guest

Advancedkid

Sat Oct 21, 2000 5:40 am

The book you talk of is "Trail of the Octopus". This book is available in most Aussie public libraries, yet it is not available in the US (something to do with Coleman being currently in Sweden where he has gained political asylum, and the fact that the book's publishers (although they won't say publicly, it is well documented though) claim they were pushed into stop publication by the government. The books entry can be seen here http://henrietta.liswa.wa.gov.au/search/acoleman+l/acoleman+l/1,14,32,B/frameset&F=acoleman+lester+k&1,1

Author Goddard, Donald.
Title Trail of the octopus : from Beirut to Lockerbie -inside the DIA / Donald Goddard with Lester K. Coleman.
Published London : Bloomsbury, 1993.
Descript'n ix, 326 p. : ill ; 23 cm.
ISBN 074751562X This is what you will need if you are going to try and hunt this book down

http://www.copi.com/octopus/ to read a few chapters from the book.

http://www.pan-american.de/Desasters/Mainpage.html is a German dedication site to Pan Am, and surprisingly they too have an article on there which questions the Libyan involvement in PA103. This would be of particular interest http://www.pan-american.de/Desasters/CaseClosed%20or%20not.html

Email me privately, if you need or want more info. brislions@netunltd.com.au

Cheers

Scotty

 
philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:15 am

Advancedkid,

The 727 prototype is preserved at the Museum at Paine Field in full 1960s United colours.

he 737 prototype was not built for Lufthansa but was a company owned aircraft msn 19437 which flew on 9 April 1967, 34 days before the first for DLH.

It was sold to NASA as N515NA in 1973. Don't know if it is still current.
 
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N202PA
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RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:45 am

More pictures:

Clipper Victor (nee Mayflower)

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © John Kelley



Clipper Juan T. Trippe

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Ted Quackenbush



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © William Tauer

 
Guest

NW 747-100 For Smithsonian

Sat Oct 21, 2000 7:00 am

Sorry about the caps, but this is how it comes to me.

NORTHWEST NEWSWIRE 10-17-2000

NWA'S FIRST 747 IS HEADED FOR SMITHSONIAN

NORTHWEST'S FIRST BOEING 747, SHIP NO. 6601, WILL MAKE ITS LAST FLIGHT NEXT WEEK, TO NORTH CAROLINA, WHERE IT WILL BE PREPARED FOR ITS FINAL MISSION, AS A FEATURED EXHIBIT IN THE SMITHSONIAN'S NATIONAL AIR AND SPACE MUSEUM IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

"WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF WORKING OUT AN ARRANGEMENT WHEREBY THE VERY FRONT OF THE FUSELAGE, INCLUDING THE COCKPIT, WILL BE THE CENTER PIECE OF A LARGE DISPLAY AT THE SMITHSONIAN MUSEUM," SAID RICHARD ANDERSON, EVP AND COO, IN HIS WEEKLY REPORT TO EMPLOYEES.

NWA'S LAST 747-100 WAS RETIRED SEPT. 25 WITH ALMOST 24,000 CYCLES IN ITS LOGBOOK. ITS LAST REVENUE FLIGHT WAS A CHARTER CARRYING THE GREEN
BAY PACKERS FROM GREEN BAY, WIS. TO PHOENIX AND BACK. THE $25 MILLION AIRCRAFT'S INAUGURAL FLIGHT, FROM MINNEAPOLIS/ST.PAUL TO NEW YORK, WAS JUNE 22, 1970. THE AIRCRAFT SPENT MORE THAN 95,000 HRS. IN THE AIR, OR NEARLY 11 YRS.

THE 747-100 WAS PART OF A 10 AIRCRAFT PURCHASE AT A COST OF $254 MILLION. THE CURRENT PRICE OF A NEW 747 IS ESTIMATED AT ABOUT $160 MILLION. NWA CURRENTLY HAS 44 747-200s REMAINING IN SERVICE.

LAST REVENUE FLIGHT: NW 9823/25SEP GRB-MSP (actually the ferry portion of the last rev flt from PHX)

TT=95,260
TC=23,632

AVG FLT=4:02
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Sat Oct 21, 2000 1:54 pm

Several old Pan Am planes met the same fate in San Bernardino, including a favorite of mine, Neptune's Car.

It would have been nice to see one restored and preserved somewhere.
 
whisperingiant
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2000 1:43 am

RE: The Tragic Rise And Fall Of N747PA

Thu Nov 16, 2000 11:54 pm

To all of you who bemoan the lack of preservation of early jetliners: I share your despair.

It seems to me absolutely unbelieveable that in a country the size of the USA there is no room to save a few old aircraft- surely the conditions in the desert are ideal. N747PA would have been the perfect candidate for preservation of an early 747, as would N601US. That N707PA was scrapped is also amazing- Boeing may have preserved Dash-80, but soon, we will need a 707 and a DC8, preferably in pax config., in preservation to remind us that these grand old things ever existed. Though for those of us in the UK there is always the horribly over-painted 707 at Cosford).

Two related comments:

N601US - and other NWA 747 memories
I flew on that aircraft. My late Gran made on of only a few flights in her life on that aircraft. My father flew many miles on it and told me that in the metal-topped days, it was referred to as The Patchwork Quilt by NWA regulars due to the differing colours of metal used in the conversion to 16(?)-window upper deck from the original 3-window. I will endeavour to get over to the Smithsonian to see it and pay my respects.

I have some copies of early 747 advertisements placed by NWA to promote the type when new. Try picking up some 1970 National Geographics at a jumble (rummage sale) and look out for them- they're great.

My best early flying memory is NWA, LGW-MSP, 28/03/1982- the thrill (as a 10-year old!) of being ushered up the spiral stair to the then-new business class section. Dad's great idea! Didn't get the registration mark of the ac, or pix, sorry.

EARLY BOEING 727- briefly on film
Anybody a fan of the original Thomas Crown Affair? Look at Faye Dunaway arriving at (er, JFK?) and freeze frame as she walks towards the camera- spot the early 727 in Boeing company livery!

Any emails on 1980s NWA activity (where is 'Sky' Magary now?), early jetliners or big props welcomed but no pix by email pls.
"So quiet, you can hear the fizz in your drink..."

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