Airliners.net

Noticed this last week on EI-DAA, and the lower case K is pretty obvious, so I wonder how it came about, and why, after eleven years, it hasn't been corrected. Anyone know of any other airline typos?

I have seen it with a capital K

I noticed this myself and wondered if all the fleet were going for the change when their respective repaints came.

Quoting Braybuddy (Thread starter): after eleven years, it hasn't been corrected.

It was "St Keeva" with a capital K up until the repaint a few years ago (when the aerlingusOcom logo was removed).

Quoting zeke (Reply 1): I have seen it with a capital K

Strange. Maybe it has been repainted, but why someone didn't notice (maybe they did and hoped no one else would) is beyond me. Looks very unprofessional.

You guys are right, as can be seen from the pic on the database.

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Photo © Art Brett - Photovation Images

Looks like they hired low-cost painters to go with the low cost image.  

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 2): I noticed this myself and wondered if all the fleet were going for the change when their respective repaints came

Would look bad wtih the S capitalised.

Yeah...this was spotted about 2-3 years ago when it came back from a repaint. Incompetent contractors. It has been mentioned to EI mgmt by a person I know. Can't remember what the response was.........personally I think it looks bad.

I would hardly call this a typo. If it was a J or P then I would understand, but it isn't exactly the most important thing, the name of the company is more important, hence why the name of the aircraft is small.

Quoting nightfox365 (Reply 6): I would hardly call this a typo. If it was a J or P then I would understand, but it isn't exactly the most important thing, the name of the company is more important, hence why the name of the aircraft is small.

I have to disagree. Small things in the airline biz matter.

Plus most passengers can see that and feel if they can't notice a detail like that, what else might they be missing?

Quoting BlueBus (Reply 7): I have to disagree. Small things in the airline biz matter. Plus most passengers can see that and feel if they can't notice a detail like that, what else might they be missing?

Seriously?

At what point do we draw the line in the sand around here?

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 8): Seriously? At what point do we draw the line in the sand around here?

Yes, seriously; I think this is bad; I must admit I hadn't noticed it, though I haven't been that "up close and personal" with this acft for a while. It is important that these things are corrected. Aer Lingus has been paying a lot of attention to its branding and the cleanliness of its aircraft in recent years (Herr Mueller is very keen on this); the aircraft's name is a part of this and it should definitely be with a capital "K".

Quoting nightfox365 (Reply 6): I would hardly call this a typo.

I suppose my background in the printing industry makes me a nerd where typesetting is concerned.  
In the business, any incorrect character or spelling mistake is always considered a typo, and it's unforgiveable when it lasts years on something like an airliner where a very professoinal image is required.

Quoting zeke (Reply 1): I have seen it with a capital K

I'm intrigued Zeke, how come a pilot based in Hong Kong would notice such small detail, let alone remember it?  

Quoting BlueBus (Reply 7): Plus most passengers can see that and feel if they can't notice a detail like that

How many passengers are going to get that close to view the offending letter? I doubt very many bar those few who stare out the window at the airport when they are waiting to board.

Plus given that a jetbridge would usually be attached, passengers wouldn't notice this anyway.

A small mistake that should be fixed but that isn't the be all and end all of a company's image

Quoting captainmeeerkat (Reply 11): How many passengers are going to get that close to view the offending letter? I doubt very many bar those few who stare out the window at the airport when they are waiting to board.

It may go unnoticed by many people but you'd be surprised how many first time visitors to Ireland would find it somewhat quaint to see that the flag carrier have named the aircraft after Irish saints yet they can't get the spelling of the name right. In fact, during the safety demonstration, it is not uncommon for Aer Lingus crew to announce the name of the particular aircraft. Not a good look. It would be better to go to Woodies for a can of white Hammerite and just paint over it than leave it as it is.

[Edited 2012-12-04 00:00:32]

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 12): t may go unnoticed by many people but you'd be surprised how many first time visitors to Ireland would find it somewhat quaint to see that the flag carrier have named the aircraft after Irish saints yet they can't get the spelling of the name right

If they want to get the spelling right, it should be Caoimhe (Naomh Caoimhe), so we are both nitpicking here. Again, 99 % of people will not look at the plane, see the plane, or care about such details other than the fact that it is a green EI plane with a shamrock on the tail. They have no log-book to fill, or airliners.net photo account to update.

I agree with you Tony that it should be changed, it looks very weird. Yet, it isn't the end of the world in terms of marketing and brand image.

Quoting captainmeeerkat (Reply 13): If they want to get the spelling right, it should be Caoimhe (Naomh Caoimhe), so we are both nitpicking here. Again, 99 % of people will not look at the plane, see the plane, or care about such details other than the fact that it is a green EI plane with a shamrock on the tail. They have no log-book to fill, or airliners.net photo account to update.

In fairness it is not really the same thing. Keeva is the anglicisation of the otherwise unpronounceable to most English speakers of the Irish spelling that no non Irish Speaker would even pick up on. Not like the current spelling of St keeva which is an obvious grammatical error that anyone who looks is more than likely to pick up on.

Quoting captainmeeerkat (Reply 13): If they want to get the spelling right, it should be Caoimhe (Naomh Caoimhe), so we are both nitpicking here

Aer Lingus always put the Irish (Gaelic) spelling on the starboard side, without indicating it's sainthood, for some reason. And I've just noticed they've put Caoimhe in lower case as well. While this is a certain style and perfectly acceptable, it looks bad if the "St" is capitalised and "Keeva" is not, and also not in keeping with the rest of the fleet.


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Photo © Jon Nettleton


Come to think of it, in the 21st century, in a supposedly secular era, it's time Aer Lingus dropped the "St". Wouldn't be that much of a change, and just using the Irish names would be in keeping with the carrier's identity.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 15): Come to think of it, in the 21st century, in a supposedly secular era, it's time Aer Lingus dropped the "St". Wouldn't be that much of a change, and just using the Irish names would be in keeping with the carrier's identity.

While I see your point I don't see how the use of historic figures in Irish history is out of place in our 'secular era'. Saints were chosen over islands and birds as reflective of the 'Saints and Scholars' history of Ireland, this history has not changed. The usage of saints names is a tradition in EI, dating back to the mid 1940's, it doesn't reflect a religious slant in the company. One thing it does do is emphasis the tourism attraction of Ireland among certain demographics, crews are regularly asked 'which saint are they travelling on'

And as Captmeerkat pointed out above, 99% of pax wouldn't notice the typo. It still annoys me though.

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 16): While I see your point I don't see how the use of historic figures in Irish history is out of place in our 'secular era'.

It's all down to perception, of course, and no doubt a lot of people like the idea of the fleet being named after saints. Personally it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable and I see it as a throwback to the time when the church had a say in running the country. I see you live in Cambridge, so I don't know if you have any connections with Ireland, but a lot of people thought that influence had been consigned to history, only to find it exploding onto international headlines in the last few weeks.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 17): It's all down to perception, of course, and no doubt a lot of people like the idea of the fleet being named after saints. Personally it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable and I see it as a throwback to the time when the church had a say in running the country. I see you live in Cambridge, so I don't know if you have any connections with Ireland, but a lot of people thought that influence had been consigned to history, only to find it exploding onto international headlines in the last few weeks.

I guess it is a matter of personal opinion. I am not a practising Catholic by any stretch of the imagination and have very little regard for anything they say or do but I do still love to see the EI aircraft named after Saints as do I enjoy celebrating Christmas (which at this point is barely remember as a religous holiday). Yes, it originated at a time when the Church basically had a say in everything in Ireland but I think it has moved beyond that ans it now an EI tradition rather than the Church dictating to us all how things should be done.

I think there are some very valid points raised here:

Quoting captainmeeerkat (Reply 11): How many passengers are going to get that close to view the offending letter? I doubt very many bar those few who stare out the window at the airport when they are waiting to board.

Very true, it's a small mistake yes, but it is a mistake nontheless and a visible one at that.

The contractors got it wrong and somehow it slipped under Aer Lingus' radar and got signed off. Whatever the impact (small or large) the fact remains that it is wrong both gramatically and from an IE branding perspective.

Would you agree that it is "The Spirit of St. Louis" not "The Spirit of St. louis"

VS "Dancing Queen" not "Dancing queen"
B6 "Blue Belle" not "Blue belle"

My point is it's an error and all known errors should be corrected, otherwise it looks lazy.

Quoting VFRontop (Reply 19): My point is it's an error and all known errors should be corrected, otherwise it looks lazy.

Not only that if I pay a $100K for a paint job I want it perfect.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 20): Not only that if I pay a $100K for a paint job I want it perfect.

Quoting VFRontop (Reply 19): Very true, it's a small mistake yes, but it is a mistake nontheless and a visible one at that. .....My point is it's an error and all known errors should be corrected, otherwise it looks lazy.

I'm with these guys on this...

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 17): I see you live in Cambridge, so I don't know if you have any connections with Ireland,

If you contriuted to the Irish thread you would know that I am very much inmersed in current events in Ireland.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 17): Personally it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable and I see it as a throwback to the time when the church had a say in running the country.

Personally I see it as a throwback to our Medaevil history rather than a remenent of the post WWII era, the late 1800's or even the mid 1600's....the periods of the worse excesses of religion on our island.

[Edited 2012-12-04 07:19:37]

Most passengers are not scrutinizing the plane, most just want to get from A to B in as short a time as possible. It is only really aviation enthusiasts that would notice. And making a capital K a lower case k is not really going to insight is there something else missing. It is just text.

Quoting nightfox365 (Reply 22): Most passengers are not scrutinizing the plane, most just want to get from A to B in as short a time as possible. It is only really aviation enthusiasts that would notice. And making a capital K a lower case k is not really going to insight is there something else missing. It is just text

You may be right. But why do it at all then? Maybe I'm a perfectionist but if you are going to do something, do it right.

The other argument of course is that the 1% of flyer's that notice are the 1% you do it for in the first place. This is the same reason EI use custom "Waterford Crystal" in business class rather then generic crystalware.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 17): but a lot of people thought that influence had been consigned to history, only to find it exploding onto international headlines in the last few weeks.

I don't want to get side tracked into an ecclesiastical debate but when it comes to history it is possible/important to look back but not step back.

For better or worse Ireland's history is intrinsically linked to Christianity and an airline like Aer Lingus which prides itself on its Irishness has cleverly used this rich history, which is a history of the people of Ireland, not of an institution, religious or otherwise.

I took this picture back in 2008 at DUB of EI-CPH (A321). If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on the fact that the same contractor painted this aircraft and forgot to dot the i...literally.

Sorry for the quality.

I find the font of the saints' names on the A321s are more bold/bigger than the rest of the fleet too?

This was something that really bothered me so excuse me if ramble a bit in this post...

I seem to remember the A330-200s went for their repaints during the Dermot Mannion era, it was very much a race to the bottom at the time and it showed. I first noticed that the aircraft came back with smaller Shamrocks on the tail, it was very obvious when the aircraft were parked next to newly delivered aircraft fresh from Toulouse.

This photo from 2008 is a good comparison, it shows the fresh repaint in the background with a slightly smaller Shamrock compared to the faded but correct livery on EI-DAA before she was repainted and received similar treatment.


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Photo © Tom Lowther


There was no consistency at Aer Lingus during this time, brand guidelines had clearly been thrown out the window and was no longer deemed important which was a shame as the airline has one of the most beautiful liveries around and a great brand to work with. This all changed in 2010 when the management team had a considerable overhaul, a new strategy was put in place and the brand has been geared to reflect this, they even conducted an internal review of branding and have been in the process of implementing this across the company.

More information on the new brand guidelines are here.

http://www.bfk.ie/our-work/2012/7/16...omprehensive-brand-guidelines.html

With regards to EI-DAA and her 'St keeva' mistake, I'm sure management want it corrected but it makes sense to wait for the next repaint instead of taking it out of service to correct one letter. The good news is that the recently repainted short haul fleet is looking very well, can't fault the work on them!

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 25): I find the font of the saints' names on the A321s are more bold/bigger than the rest of the fleet too?

That's true, done around the same time as the A332s as well. Three have left the fleet anyway but if the remaining three are here to stay I'd like to see them get a repaint too.