Transpac787
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:37 pm

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26902

Enroute divert on UA1146 IAH-EWR into MSY. Does anyone know why??
 
MSYtristar
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:51 pm

Per my friend at MSY, it was a mechanical diversion. I'm going to try to go get a few shots.
 
MadameConcorde
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:16 pm

Quote poster from Flyertalk who was on board:

I was on Flight 146 (787 #3902) this morning, when we had a power/electrical issue. We've ended up being diverted to MSY and they are bringing in a replacement aircraft to continue on. About 75 minutes into the flight the electrical power flickered a couple of times and then I noticed us making a long right hand turn. I was expecting us to be headed back to IAH. Once the AVOD got rebooted I checked the online map and it showed us headed to MSY with a landing in 30 minutes. Up till this point no announcement had been made, so on the way back from a trip to the washroom, I asked one of the FA's when they would be making an announcement about the diversion. She was shocked that I knew about it, and asked how did I know. I calmly replied that the flight map now shows us heading for a MSY landing at 9:25. A few minutes after this, one of the FA's announce the diversion.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...02-diverted-msy-flight-1146-a.html

  
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
xjramper
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:55 pm

I'm sure the crew had justification, but why in the world would they divert to MSY when the distance between their turn to MSY and what would have been back to IAH was negligible? Coupled with the storms that went thru MSY a little bit ago, that wasn't a very smart move.
Look ma' no hands!
 
SonomaFlyer
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:12 pm

Quoting xjramper (Reply 3):
but why in the world would they divert to MSY when the distance between their turn to MSY and what would have been back to IAH was negligible?

Likely UA's protocol is to divert to the nearest airport able to safely handle the aircraft in the event this type of malfunction takes place. It will be a while until word leaks out exactly what the issue was but it was obviously on the list of immediate diversion/landing for this a/c with this airline.
 
MSYtristar
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:26 pm

I'm going to preface this picture by saying I have a terrible camera and I was taking this through a chain link fence over a mile away.



From the parking garage. Almost a good shot.

 
braniffmsy
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:48 pm

It diverted due to multiple electrical failures. I was on one of the 787's on 05Nov and we were delayed for 1.5 hour as well at ORD due to something related to the electrical system. Although United claimed it was 'environmental aircraft damage'. Not sure what that covers?
 
SonomaFlyer
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:57 pm

Multiple failures could mean a lot of things. It makes me wonder if there was a electrical junction/controller that failed which caused the system to fail over to the back up requiring the diversion.

Hopefully the design is modular and a new controller is sitting at IAH and can be plugged in. Otherwise, sounds like Boeing is flying something out from SEA.
 
71Zulu
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:17 pm

Here is the permanent link:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...6/history/20121204/1330Z/KIAH/KEWR

Guess they sent a 762 to replace,

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...2/history/20121204/1715Z/KIAH/KMSY

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 5):

Good try anyway.

This is the first 787 in MSY right?
Clickable links only please!
 
braniffmsy
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:32 pm

This is the first 787 ever at MSY.
Trying to determine if the United 787's have had any other diversions anywhere since they entered service with the carrier.
 
N1120A
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting BraniffMSY (Reply 6):
Although United claimed it was 'environmental aircraft damage'.

Bird Strike?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MSYtristar
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:47 pm

Here's one more courtesy of a friend of mine.

 
71Zulu
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:22 pm

Runway 10/28 was closed due to maintenance and I guess they didn't want the shorter 19, so they cleared the vehicles off of 10/28 and the aircraft landed on runway 10. Crew reported 182 souls on board. United 1146 Heavy. It's in the Live ATC archives, 1500-1530Z has it all. Pilot asked ground crew to check for "discoloration or dripping plastic", yikes.  Wow!
Quoting xjramper (Reply 3):
I'm sure the crew had justification, but why in the world would they divert to MSY when the distance between their turn to MSY and what would have been back to IAH was negligible? Coupled with the storms that went thru MSY a little bit ago, that wasn't a very smart move.

The crew declared an emergency so I guess MSY was the nearest suitable airport as required.



[Edited 2012-12-04 12:27:55]
Clickable links only please!
 
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TWA772LR
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:26 pm

Possibly a lightning strike? How would a CFRP airframe hold up to one?
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
migair54
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 12):
Pilot asked ground crew to check for "discoloration or dripping plastic",

lighting strike must the cause.... an Electrical failure is a serious issue and sometimes going back to your base is not an option hence the diversion to MSY, also consider that the pilots are very new on that plane and they might get some problems understanding some failures, maybe it´s even a failure that has never happen before and they don´t know how to react... So better to be on ground asap.
 
Kaiarahi
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 14):
lighting strike must the cause....

How so?
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
migair54
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:27 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 15):
How so?

when you have a lighting strike you can see de-coloration in the exact place where the strike hit the plane with a bit of like burning marks as well, and if the crew was asking for that is because the felt something like that or they really suspect about that,

however i should have said: Lighting strike could be the cause.....

[Edited 2012-12-04 13:29:13]
 
Josh32121
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:39 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 11):

"Which line do we stop at????"   

Wouldn't a lightning strike on a 787 have different effects (or less of an effect) because of the composite skin as compared to a lightning strike on a conventional aluminum-bodied plane?
 
Daysleeper
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:50 pm

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 12):
Pilot asked ground crew to check for "discoloration or dripping plastic", yikes.

This is starting to sound a bit more serious than the usual new type teething problems - It will be interesting to see how long the repairs take....

Quoting BraniffMSY (Reply 9):
Trying to determine if the United 787's have had any other diversions anywhere since they entered service with the carrier.

There was a thread posted a few weeks ago regarding Air India's problems with the 787 in which it was repeatedly claimed that United were having no problems with it. I'm starting to wonder how accurate that is....
 
gigneil
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:56 pm

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 17):
Wouldn't a lightning strike on a 787 have different effects (or less of an effect) because of the composite skin as compared to a lightning strike on a conventional aluminum-bodied plane?

VERY much so. The plane has a metal mesh system to wick lightning away from critical areas.

NS
 
steve7e7
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:13 pm

Didn't a test 787 suffer a fire in the same electrical bay during flight testing?

I hope for Boeings sake this is an isolated incident.
 
71Zulu
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:14 pm

It's on Av Herald now,

http://avherald.com/h?article=45a0903f&opt=0

though it does not mention at this time that this was an emergency landing and not just a diversion.
Clickable links only please!
 
tdscanuck
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:17 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 7):
It makes me wonder if there was a electrical junction/controller that failed which caused the system to fail over to the back up requiring the diversion.

The 787, like most modern large jets, uses a parallel electrical architecture. It's not a matter of primary/backup, it's a matter of multiple parallel systems that each take some share of the total aircraft load. In the event of failures, the faulty system is either isolated or ganged together with it's neighbor (i.e. share a generator) depending on the nature of the failure.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 7):
Hopefully the design is modular

It is.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 13):
Possibly a lightning strike? How would a CFRP airframe hold up to one?

Very well. The 787 has been hit by lightning several times already.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 14):
maybe it´s even a failure that has never happen before and they don´t know how to react...

The flight crew has no detailed visibility into the electrical system; at the level they can see, there is an EICAS message for every failure that requires tehm to take action and a defined procedure to follow for that message. It's very difficult to think of a plausible scenario where the crew didn't know how to react, even if they didn't know the precise nature of the failure.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 16):
when you have a lighting strike you can see de-coloration in the exact place where the strike hit the plane with a bit of like burning marks as well

That can happen with a lightning strike but isn't guaranteed. Especially if it's a lower power strike that attaches to particularly conductive bits (lip skins, fin leading edge, etc.).

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 17):
Wouldn't a lightning strike on a 787 have different effects (or less of an effect) because of the composite skin as compared to a lightning strike on a conventional aluminum-bodied plane?

The detailed current flows are different (it's not skin flow like it would be in solid aluminum) but the gross airplane-level behavior is basically the same.

Tom.
 
Daysleeper
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:25 pm

Quoting STEVE7E7 (Reply 20):
Didn't a test 787 suffer a fire in the same electrical bay during flight testing?

I hope for Boeings sake this is an isolated incident.

Yes - I believe that incident was blamed on FOD being left inside an electrical panel so it should be a one off incident...


I've just listened to the ATC recordings for this incident - I'm still none the wiser to what went on, but it doesn't look like a minor electrical problem. The crew actually direct ground staff to inspect the outside of the rear avionics bay for evidence of fire..
 
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Aesma
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:38 pm

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 23):
Yes - I believe that incident was blamed on FOD being left inside an electrical panel so it should be a one off incident...

The fire was a one off but the fact it shut down almost everything led to some changes I seem to remember.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
UALWN
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:09 pm

Interesting. I'm scheduled to be flying on that plane this Thursday EWR-IAH. I hope they fix it on time...
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/380
 
jporterfi
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:28 pm

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 17):
"Which line do we stop at????"  

I can't tell what aircraft the line they stopped at was designed for (I imagine it doesn't say 787 on the pavement!). Interesting that they used airstairs to deplane passengers as opposed to the jetbridge...
 
dreyes78
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:22 am

Of course this happens on my only day off this week.....

Photo courtesy of my coworker....
dreyes78
 
FlyHossD
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:16 am

Quoting xjramper (Reply 3):

I'm sure the crew had justification, but why in the world would they divert to MSY when the distance between their turn to MSY and what would have been back to IAH was negligible? Coupled with the storms that went thru MSY a little bit ago, that wasn't a very smart move.

That's out of line - you weren't there. Given that the crew was looking for damage ("discoloration"), it's a smart move to get the plane on the ground.

Some of United's (sCO) most experienced crews including captains and check airman are operating the aircraft right now.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
phxa340
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:32 am

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 18):
This is starting to sound a bit more serious than the usual new type teething problems - It will be interesting to see how long the repairs take....

No its really not ... amazing how 1 diversion brings out the 787 doomsdayers ...

"Initial inspections showed that there was no fire in the aft electrical equipment bay, where the problem was reported, and no sign of electrical "arcing," or electricity flowing incorrectly, according to a person familiar with the situation"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...bre8b318k-20121204,0,6491437.story
 
eastern747
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:39 am

WTF?????? The flight is diverting from the planned flight and the FA;s know nothing? Panic in the cockpit, maybe/ Just takes a simple announcement from the cockpit. HELLO COCKPIT,,,, we can see where we are going and what about channel 9? I'm glad my company let's me have several options when they send me out. Wow UA.....I know there are mechanical problems, weather stuff etc. BUT let me know....Just say as a precaution we need to go #### to check it out. One more black eye UA.
 
7gm7
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:02 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 25):

Hope so. Similarly, I am on UA flt. 1737 EWR-IAH next Tues 12/11.....same thoughts here...
 
dreyes78
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:07 am

Now the fire trucks came out to the plane.....
dreyes78
 
United1
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:18 am

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 30):
The flight is diverting from the planned flight and the FA;s know nothing?

go back and re-read....F/As knew but they hadn't announced to the passengers yet.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
tdscanuck
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:19 am

Quoting STEVE7E7 (Reply 20):
Didn't a test 787 suffer a fire in the same electrical bay during flight testing?

There is zero evidence (so far) that the issue on United was actually in the aft electrical bay. The flight crew did ask for an inspection during the event but there is no warning indication available to the flight crew that would localize a failure to the aft equipment bay. The statement in Reply 29 seems to indicate that there were no findings in the aft bay (or anywhere else, for that matter).

Tom.
 
Daysleeper
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:26 am

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 29):
No its really not ... amazing how 1 diversion brings out the 787 doomsdayers ...

When and where did I say anything about the 787 being "doomed"?

I said that this looks to be more than simple teething trouble, which it does. The fact that they are looking for evidence of fire and electrical arcing in a brand new aircraft is concerning to say the least. Faulty cockpit door locks, software glitches - these are "teething" troubles which cause delay and inconvenience. Fires in avionics bays cause premature landings and occasional death.

[Edited 2012-12-04 18:30:12]
 
BoeingVista
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:40 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 35):
The flight crew did ask for an inspection during the event but there is no warning indication available to the flight crew that would localize a failure to the aft equipment bay.

Surely there must be some sort of fire indicator in the EE bay.

The flyertalk guys pointed out that Flightaware shows the aircraft started drifting down 5,000 feet from 41,000 6 minutes before it began the turn for MSY so maybe a bit of decision time involved here.

[Edited 2012-12-04 19:01:54]
BV
 
MSYtristar
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:55 am

Well, there's a jetway attached now.

 
phxa340
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:57 am

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 36):
When and where did I say anything about the 787 being "doomed"?

You didn't

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 36):
I said that this looks to be more than simple teething trouble, which it does.

What facts are you using to develop this hypothesis ? I just ask because every news source is stating that there was no evidence of fire or electrical melt downs.

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 36):
software glitches

How do we know that it wasn't yet ?

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 30):

Duuuude ... we get it , you don't like UA. Lets focus on what happened with the 787 and not turn this into another UA bashing thread.
 
F9Animal
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:23 am

Quoting STEVE7E7 (Reply 20):
Didn't a test 787 suffer a fire in the same electrical bay during flight testing?

I hope for Boeings sake this is an isolated incident.
Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 23):
I've just listened to the ATC recordings for this incident - I'm still none the wiser to what went on, but it doesn't look like a minor electrical problem. The crew actually direct ground staff to inspect the outside of the rear avionics bay for evidence of fire..

I will chime in and shed some light on this incident. It has been very well covered up so to speak. I will make it short and sweet. Had the aircraft been airborne 2 more minutes, it would have gone down. I got this information from a very reliable source that is very high up in the Boeing Company. It was pure skill in the cockpit that got that aircraft on the runway. That is all I am willing to share about the incident, as I should probably not even have shared as much as I have here.  
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
AeroWesty
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:28 am

Quoting F9animal (Reply 41):
I will chime in and shed some light on this incident.

I assume you're referring to the test flight, not today's UA flight?
International Homo of Mystery
 
usflyguy
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:42 am

Quoting F9animal (Reply 41):
I will chime in and shed some light on this incident. It has been very well covered up so to speak. I will make it short and sweet. Had the aircraft been airborne 2 more minutes, it would have gone down. I got this information from a very reliable source that is very high up in the Boeing Company. It was pure skill in the cockpit that got that aircraft on the runway. That is all I am willing to share about the incident, as I should probably not even have shared as much as I have here.

If that's the case, why didn't they land in MEM, LIT, JAN, MLU, SHV, etc which were all much closer than MSY?
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
BoeingVista
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:58 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 43):

If that's the case, why didn't they land in MEM, LIT, JAN, MLU, SHV, etc which were all much closer than MSY?

The same reason that SR111 didn't make for the closest airport, sometimes you don't know how much time you have until the post morten.

I am not saying that I put any credence in post 41 though
BV
 
hnl-jack
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:00 am

Quoting F9animal (Reply 41):
That is all I am willing to share about the incident, as I should probably not even have shared as much as I have here.

That is exactly right, don't share what you really know nothing about.
 
tp1040
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:05 am

Still wondering about the diversion to MSY. MEM has an 11,000 runway and the fed ex base.
 
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lightsaber
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:53 am

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 29):
No its really not ... amazing how 1 diversion brings out the 787 doomsdayers ...

That it is. I will be curious to find out more. I will happily fly on a 787. Preferably in J.  
Quoting dreyes78 (Reply 33):
Now the fire trucks came out to the plane.....

   Come on, if you worked the fire crew, wouldn't you go out at shift change?  
Quoting F9animal (Reply 41):
Had the aircraft been airborne 2 more minutes, it would have gone down.

I will wait to find out more, for the RAT and batteries should have been able to keep her aloft. I'm not against the early landing. If there is any question, I support the pilot's prerogative to put her on the ground. But I want to find out more before such a claim. Something too similar to the DC-10 incident that tarnished a good plane's reputation.

I will ping my Boeing contacts to see what they know.


Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
ferpe
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:08 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 48):
I will wait to find out more, for the RAT and batteries should have been able to keep her aloft.

I think there is evidence that there was ample electrical power on the plane when it landed, something which was not the case in the Laredo incident. Passengers did not comment on a dark cabin, they said their was a slight hick-up and then the IFE rebooted. This would not have happened were we down to the kind of electrical level as in the Laredo incident which I think post 41 is referring to. That was a real nasty incident with an active fire when landing and the plane flying on RAT and with a partial flightdeck.

Here it seems even the IFE was on, I guess one of the solid state power controllers or similar might have gone meaning you where down to one power system covering the frames needs or such. Most probably miles away from Laredo (in more then one sense   Wow! ).

[Edited 2012-12-04 21:09:26]
Non French in France
 
Type-Rated
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:24 am

On the map it looks like they were closer to MEM than to MSY. I wonder why they didn't go there. MEM can support a 787.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
FlyHossD
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:32 am

Quoting type-rated (Reply 49):

On the map it looks like they were closer to MEM than to MSY. I wonder why they didn't go there. MEM can support a 787.

That might have been a weather related decision. Wasn't there a front crossing MEM about that same time?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
boacvc10
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United 787 Ship 902 Diverted Enroute IAH-EWR

Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:51 am

Quoting F9animal (Reply 41):
Had the aircraft been airborne 2 more minutes, it would have gone down.

I initially thought fuel exhaustion, upon reading the sentence above, and only now noticed this news article: (Bloomberg News:
Boeing Dreamliners Leaking Fuel Spur FAA to Order Checks


"2 more minutes" and the use of "this" seems important somehow.

Quoting F9animal (Reply 41):
I will chime in and shed some light on this incident.

Batteries ? Electrical Bus ? cascading systems failure ? CB trips ? I'm intrigued. How about Software failure ? Computer failure ? Nav system failure ?
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