justinlee
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Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:13 pm

Considering that many New Yorkers don't have a car, it's always a pain to go to LGA. JFK and EWR are kind of linked by mass transit so it's ok. LGA is a different story. Living in Uptown now, the distance to LGA is actually less than 10 miles but if we go by M60 bus, it's always a long ride. So cab is the only choice.

I will always book a limo if i had some early flights before. But during the week after Hurricane Sandy, I met a huge problem because my previous limo driver didn't work for the shortage of gas. Then I realized how fragile and unreliable this transportation is. I am just wondering why there is no plan for any mass transit linking LGA. The LIRR and subway line 7 station is only 1 mile away but no one seems to be interested in connecting them to LGA? So weird!
 
CXA330300
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:23 pm

Construction of new transit in New York generally takes forever, so don't hold your breath. Also, track building is *pricy*.
However, LGA's transit opttions are often quicker than JFK/EWR from much of the city - the M60 is pretty quick from the N in Astoria, and other buses from Jackson Heights. I think there's been occasional talk of building an AirTrain-like line from the 7 out to LGA.
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stlgph
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:48 pm

Quoting justinlee (Thread starter):
. The LIRR and subway line 7 station is only 1 mile away but no one seems to be interested in connecting them to LGA? So weird!

Because there's greater interest in the taxes brought in from taxi, limo, and car service fares.
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bkflyguy
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:42 pm

The MTA and NYCDOT just recently proposed several "Select Bus Service" Routes to LaGuardia from various parts of the city. SBS is New York's version of bus rapid transit.

http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-content/pdf/LGASBSmap.pdf
 
RamblinMan
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:19 pm

Quoting justinlee (Thread starter):
if we go by M60 bus, it's always a long ride. So cab is the only choice.

Oh come on it's not THAT bad.

Quoting BKflyguy (Reply 3):
The MTA and NYCDOT just recently proposed several "Select Bus Service" Routes to LaGuardia from various parts of the city. SBS is New York's version of bus rapid transit.

Probably all you're gonna get anytime soon. The political will it takes to build new rail lines these days is almost impossible.
 
corinthians
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:29 pm

It will never happen. You can’t build the subway in that area because it’s too densely populated. Building it underground will cause havoc and the residents will complain about the noise if they use elevated tracks. And there are no major roads from Roosevelt Station in Jackson Heights and Woodside LIRR station which you can on top of, like with the Van Wick to JFK. So, you can’t really build an Airtrain.

And I don’t know if I agree that LGA’s public transit options are quicker. The Q33 bus from Jackson Heights is really slow. M60 isn’t so great from any point, especially if you originate in Manhattan. I work in Midtown and when I fly after work. It’s usually quicker for me to get to JFK or EWR from my office than to LGA because the former two have train service and the bus and car options are slow, especially if traffic is bad.
 
stlgph
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:57 pm

The easiest way to LaGuardia from Manhattan at certain times of the day is the N/Q to Astoria Blvd, then transfer to the M60 or take a cab from there. A number of cabs close to shift change will not take you to an airport. If you're already across the river, different story.

The M60 bus takes minutes from Astoria Blvd and runs very frequently.
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aklrno
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:07 am

THere are some cities where I gladly take a subway line to the airport, but New York is not one of them. The airtrain links to JFK and Newark are OK, but even those are a bit complicated if you don't live in New York. Any subway/bus combination is a big problem because most subway stations involve stairs, and the buses are not baggage friendly.
 
mpdpilot
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:17 am

Quoting aklrno (Reply 7):
buses are not baggage friendly.

This right here sums up the biggest issue with mass transit at airports. Even at DCA which is probably the best system out there, it is a struggle if you have more than carry ons.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
flyby519
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:18 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 2):
Because there's greater interest in the taxes brought in from taxi, limo, and car service fares.

  

Youll never see direct rail linking LGA. The taxi unions/lobby are too powerful.

I would love to see a direct link from LGA-JFK to allow for domestic pax to connect int'l, but that is a wild pipe dream.
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GSPSPOT
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:03 am

Quoting BKflyguy (Reply 3):
The MTA and NYCDOT just recently proposed several "Select Bus Service" Routes to LaGuardia from various parts of the city. SBS is New York's version of bus rapid transit.

This seems like a no-brainer.
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planeguy727
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:59 am

The biggest problems I find with the M60 bus are as follows:

1) Pax not using the luggage racks they added
2) Too many stops (esp going across 125th). Leads to far too many people using it as a cross town ride rather than an airport route.
3) Too much tolerance for double parking (on 125th and Astoria Blvd). Delays traffic and slows down the bus.

The N train is no help if you are north of Central Park (as I am).

Buses that run non-stop from LGA to the 7 and N would help many people.
I want to live in an old and converted 727...
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:46 am

I always take the bus from Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Train station and I find that the ride is usually unaffected by traffic as the bus travels down mostly side streets and it takes about 20 min from train to Central Terminal.
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jfklganyc
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:25 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 2):
Because there's greater interest in the taxes brought in from taxi, limo, and car service fares.
Quoting flyby519 (Reply 9):
Youll never see direct rail linking LGA. The taxi unions/lobby are too powerful.

This is totally untrue.

This is a rumor invented by airline crew.

As a New Yorker and an airline crewmember, I have heard it several times and I laugh each time.

Most cabbies hate going to the airport because to pick up another fare, they need to get in a long line.

There are/were several obstacles to the train to the plane at both JFK and LGA, the "taxi lobby" wasn't one of them.

600 million was set aside by Mayor Guiliani to extend the N to LGA. It was to extend down the Grand Central Pkwy to LGA much like the AirTain at JFK.

After 9/11, the funds were diverted to rebuild transit near the WTC.

The new mayor, Mayor Bloomberg, and the MTA have embarked on subway expansion within Manhattan: a new 2 Ave line to open in 2019, and the 7 train extension to the west side/Hudson Yards to open next year.

Both those projects are way more expensive than the link to LGA would be...but they are the priority for the current administration.
 
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STT757
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:11 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 13):
600 million was set aside by Mayor Guiliani to extend the N to LGA. It was to extend down the Grand Central Pkwy to LGA much like the AirTain at JFK.

After 9/11, the funds were diverted to rebuild transit near the WTC.

Pataki diverted the funds to the LIRR's East Side Access project.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 13):
The new mayor, Mayor Bloomberg, and the MTA have embarked on subway expansion within Manhattan: a new 2 Ave line to open in 2019, and the 7 train extension to the west side/Hudson Yards to open next year.

Both those projects are way more expensive than the link to LGA would be...but they are the priority for the current administration

Bloomberg also wanted to continue the 7 Train Extension to New Jersey,

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...ubway_to_nj_iA2sZ3IMDdLKJYx7XCxGSI

Shows you how low a priority rail service to LGA is when the Mayor would rather have the subway go to New Jersey then to LGA.
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corinthians
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:39 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
Bloomberg also wanted to continue the 7 Train Extension to New Jersey,

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...ubway_to_nj_iA2sZ3IMDdLKJYx7XCxGSI

Shows you how low a priority rail service to LGA is when the Mayor would rather have the subway go to New Jersey then to LGA.

And the reason for that is because your boneheaded governor decided that an additional Hudson River tunnel would be a “waste of funds”. 7-Train extension to Jersey, as stupid as it is, would just be a fall-back plan for additional Jersey access.
 
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STT757
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:44 pm

Quoting corinthians (Reply 15):
And the reason for that is because your boneheaded governor decided that an additional Hudson River tunnel would be a “waste of funds”. 7-Train extension to Jersey, as stupid as it is, would just be a fall-back plan for additional Jersey access.

The Governor of New Jersey would be a genius if he got New York to pay for a new rail tunnel for New Jersey commuters, otherwise I agree.

[Edited 2012-12-06 06:47:30]
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stlgph
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 13):
This is totally untrue.

You don't spend much time at City Hall, do you?

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 13):
Most cabbies hate going to the airport because to pick up another fare, they need to get in a long line.

No. Most cabbies hate going to the airport because they don't want to be stuck in traffic and miss their shift change. Come to midtown between 3 and 6 and try to get a cab to the airport.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 13):
600 million was set aside by Mayor Guiliani to extend the N to LGA. It was to extend down the Grand Central Pkwy to LGA much like the AirTain at JFK.

That's a nice thought but $600 million wouldn't have gotten the N past 34th street.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 13):
The new mayor, Mayor Bloomberg, and the MTA have embarked on subway expansion within Manhattan: a new 2 Ave line to open in 2019, and the 7 train extension to the west side/Hudson Yards to open next year.

These projects were in development years before Bloomberg took office.
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jfklganyc
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:25 pm

1. Do you?

2. So we agree that cabbies are not fond of airport work.

3. The N needed to run from 31 street to lga in queens down the gcp and in the late 90s 600 million funded the scope of the project?

4. The 7 train was funded by city bonds by bloomberg. Just proposed before he took office.
2 ave line was started and stopped 40 years ago. Work resumed after bloomberg took office in the early 2000s.

The mayor and mta set the vision. LGA rail connection is not a priority for him. He would rather get the 7 to the west side and start a new business district (hudson yards which broke ground 2 days ago) than use those funds to extend the N to lga. Payoff and legacy is bigger on the west side.

Lets see what Christine Quinn ( likely next mayor) does
 
ryanov
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:43 pm

Quoting corinthians (Reply 15):
And the reason for that is because your boneheaded governor decided that an additional Hudson River tunnel would be a “waste of funds”. 7-Train extension to Jersey, as stupid as it is, would just be a fall-back plan for additional Jersey access.

He's wrong nearly 100% of the time (and this time I don't believe to be necessarily different), but the plan as envisioned was sub-par. The Macy's basement thing instead of more capacity for the Amtrak tunnels was shortsighted. That said, I didn't hear that as his rationale.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 12):
I always take the bus from Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Train station and I find that the ride is usually unaffected by traffic as the bus travels down mostly side streets and it takes about 20 min from train to Central Terminal.

This indeed is the way to go. There are two buses if I recall correctly (Q33 and Q42 is it?). I have gone that way and taken the M60 at other times (though perhaps never all the way to LGA) and the experience from Roosevelt was better. My bus did, however, have to go out of service when a teenager kicked the glass out of the door when the drive told him he wouldn't be waiting for his friend several blocks away. Still made it in plenty of time though.
 
stlgph
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 18):

1. Do you?

Swing by the office.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 18):
2. So we agree that cabbies are not fond of airport work.

I never said that. Cab drivers are not fond of going anywhere that's going to delay their shift change.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 18):
3. The N needed to run from 31 street to lga in queens down the gcp and in the late 90s 600 million funded the scope of the project?

If you knew anything about construction and industrials, you would know there is no way $600 million would even cover taking the N off of 31 street and sending it down the GCP any further than 2 blocks.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 18):
4. The 7 train was funded by city bonds by bloomberg. Just proposed before he took office.
2 ave line was started and stopped 40 years ago. Work resumed after bloomberg took office in the early 2000s.

Yes. You are correct...work *resumed* during the Bloomberg tenure. That's it.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 18):
The mayor and mta set the vision. LGA rail connection is not a priority for him. He would rather get the 7 to the west side and start a new business district (hudson yards which broke ground 2 days ago) than use those funds to extend the N to lga. Payoff and legacy is bigger on the west side.

Again, the 7 Extension has been in the works for a loooong time.
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corinthians
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting ryanov (Reply 19):
He's wrong nearly 100% of the time (and this time I don't believe to be necessarily different), but the plan as envisioned was sub-par. The Macy's basement thing instead of more capacity for the Amtrak tunnels was shortsighted. That said, I didn't hear that as his rationale.

I was actually a big fan of his until he cancelled the project. He gladly accepted federal funds for it and took his sweet time returning that money. I have no idea what the status of that is because the Feds sued NJ to get their money back.

Quoting ryanov (Reply 19):
This indeed is the way to go. There are two buses if I recall correctly (Q33 and Q42 is it?). I have gone that way and taken the M60 at other times (though perhaps never all the way to LGA) and the experience from Roosevelt was better. My bus did, however, have to go out of service when a teenager kicked the glass out of the door when the drive told him he wouldn't be waiting for his friend several blocks away. Still made it in plenty of time though.

I lived in Jackson Heights for five years. The buses are the Q33 and Q47. The Q47 only goes to the Marine Air Terminal and not the others. I actually used to take the Q47 to the subway station (opposite direction, of course!) every morning back when I lived there. Anyways, traffic along those routes isn’t good. The Q33 goes along Roosevelt all the way to 82nd St. and then goes northward there. Both roads have bad traffic much of the time. It takes a lot longer than it really should considering the distance.
 
jetstar
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:03 pm

It would not be difficult to build an Airtrain from the #7 line station and the LIRR train station next to CitiField,

The tracks could go through or around the edge of CitiField’s parking lot and then right over the Grand Central Parkway directly to the airport, no need to tear down any buildings or tear up any side streets or even have to purchase any real estate, the city already owns all this property.

JetStar
 
prosa
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:15 pm

The new mayor, Mayor Bloomberg, and the MTA have embarked on subway expansion within Manhattan: a new 2 Ave line to open in 2019

Which will be 100 years after it was first proposed.
And then there's the connection between the 63rd Street tunnel and the Queens Boulevard mainline, which opened around a decade ago. It took seven years to dig 1,500 feet of tunnel.
The point is that even if the city decides to build a subway link to LGA, the time frame for its construction will be so long as to render the whole idea essentially meaningless.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
stlgph
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:44 pm

Quoting jetstar (Reply 22):
It would not be difficult to build an Airtrain from the #7 line station and the LIRR train station next to CitiField,

Why yes, yes it would.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:37 am

IIRC, Air Train JFK was constructed to make JFK competitive to LGA since it is not as close to the city as LGA. LGA doesn't have a rail link like JFK because it is so close to the city. However we can also thank JetBlue for making JFK more attractive for travel to NY as well since that is their "hub".

Also, LGA does not just serve the city, but also Long Island. I live on LI and frequently use LGA for traveling. Now, on Long Island everyone and their mother have cars. JFK is easy for Long Islanders too with the LIRR being accessible to many villages in Nassau and Suffolk Counties, though if you venture too far into Suffolk people start using ISP over LGA and JFK. I live in SW Nassau County. JFK is ideally the closest airport (but usually more expensive for me), and LGA is accessible by car. Plus if you live in any other borough besides Manhattan, you will most likely need a car. There are 5 boroughs in NYC, let's not forget that.
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rwy04lga
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:01 am

A rail link between the N line at Astoria Blvd, following the GCP to LGA, continuing to Willets Point on the 7 train should solve the problem. LGA would need 3 stops....Terminal A (Marine Air Terminal), Terminal B (Central Terminal), and Terminals C and D (Delta's Terminal complex). Methinks any rail link will have to wait until LGA's redevelopment gets squared away. For now, deal with the Q33/47/48/72 buses. FYI...Roosevelt Ave, with it's many bars/clubs, is still a clusterflock even at 4am!!!
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
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STT757
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:02 pm

Unfortunately the resources just aren't there for a project like Transit to LGA, which makes perfect sense. The Port Authority has historically been the agency with the most resources to do big projects. Politics however have greatly hurt the agency, in particular the rebuilding of the World Trade Center. What the agency has been tasked to do by the past four New York Governor's with regards to the World Trade Center is just astounding. They've diverted tens of billions of dollars in toll and airport revenues into rebuilding commercial real estate in Lower Manhattan. The 9/11 attacks drove many of their former tenants North to Mid-Town Manhattan, now those they have been trying to lure back are surely going to again be spooked by the damage and aftermath of Hurricane Sandy on Lower Manhattan.

The Agency has been trying to seek outside private equity to help finance some projects, new CTB at LGA, new Terminal A at EWR and new Goethals Bridge, however the article points out that contrary to popular beliefs Private equity involvement in public projects only adds to the costs of those projects. Private agencies pay more to raise funds, and have to earn a return on their investments. While it's possible a private firm may indeed help redevelop a new CTB for LGA, as was done with T4 at JFK, it will be at a higher cost which will mean higher fees (rents) for airlines at LGA as well as higher landing fees then if the Port Authority were to undertake the project themselves.

http://www.city-journal.org/2012/22_4_port-authority.html
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jfklganyc
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 20):
Swing by the office.

So are you saying you work at city hall and the TLC is a driving force against a train link?

I have never heard or read such ideas. If you have, and care to share, I would like to know more about it...as I am sure would others.

There were many different people against the AirTrain JFK plan...I do not recall seeing the TLC as one of them. I would like to hear more info about it
 
stlgph
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RE: Any Mass Transit Plan For LGA?

Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:23 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 28):

As I said, swing by the office.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport