Richie72
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Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:10 am

Anyboady know when this will be officially announced...?


Emirates is reportedly preparing to launch a new direct between Dubai and Stockholm Arlanda next summer. It is understood that it will be a daily service, scheduled for debut on 3 June 2013. There is as yet no official announcement about the new route from the airline, but it is known that the company had been working on the establishment of a new route either to Oslo or to Stockholm.
Planning for the new route is supposedly so advanced that agreements with handling companies, among others, have already been signed and route numbers set – named as EK157 and 158.
Emirates appears to be turbocharging its route expansions in Scandinavia, encouraged by the success of its flights to Copenhagen, which launched in August 2011. The airline previously announced an upgrade on the route from February 2013, deploying a Boeing 777-300 ER.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:49 am

DXB-ARN nonstop w 77W ?
Too much plane for this route imo.

//Mike   
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flylonghaul
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:25 pm

Quoting solnabo (Reply 1):
DXB-ARN nonstop w 77W ?Too much plane for this route imo.

I believe the route would be launched using the A330, or perhaps less likely one of the remaining A345.
Then up-gauged based on demand. Don't underestimate the amount of connecting traffic that EK can generate   
The above mentioned the CPH route being up-gauged as of FEB 2013

I would be happy to be proved wrong however, as I will be looking to utilise this flight for my annual trip to Sweden, and the newer 77W would be much preferred!
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HB-IWC
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:42 pm

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 2):
one of the remaining A345

Not a single one has left the fleet left, so they are all still remaining.

Quoting solnabo (Reply 1):
DXB-ARN nonstop w 77W ?
Too much plane for this route imo

If it does not launch with B77W, it will operate with 77W within a year anyhow.

Quoting Richie72 (Thread starter):
a new route either to Oslo or to Stockholm

While Stockholm will likely launch first, I would not expect Oslo to be far behind.
 
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:59 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
Not a single one has left the fleet left, so they are all still remaining.

Sorry, right you are. For some reason I thought that they had retired some already.

Fingers crossed that they launch with the 77W. With the QF tie up, this flight would be great, 1 stop SYD-DXB-ARN.
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SKAirbus
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:58 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
While Stockholm will likely launch first, I would not expect Oslo to be far behind.

Yep considering OSL is soon to take over CPH as Scandinavia's biggest airport by passenger numbers.

I wonder if EK can offer any sort of codesharing with either DY or SK to feed passengers from domestic routes into its long haul network.
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:03 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 5):
I wonder if EK can offer any sort of codesharing with either DY or SK to feed passengers from domestic routes into its long haul network.

SK already feeds EK at CPH (and other European airports) through regular interlining, although I have no idea regarding the volumes. Don't need any codesharing for this

DY doesn't interline
 
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:08 pm

EK as good as always, range permitting, launches new routes with the A330. Next step up is 777 or A340, then 77W and eventually A380. In the future it will be A359, B77W and A380. Pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap; it does work if you can get the formula right, and have the right cost base.

CPH will have gone from 330 to 77W in around 2 years, and I see no reason why ARN should be any different. Do not underestimate EK's ability to draw in the crowd, mainly because they're usually cheaper than the competition but also because of the product on offer. Their business class (on the A380 and newer 77W) is among the best around, and the F suites are just heaven. I have no experience of their economy product, but having walked through that part of the cabin on many occasions it looks exactly like every other y-class: Packed to the gills and not very comfortable.
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:23 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 5):
Yep considering OSL is soon to take over CPH as Scandinavia's biggest airport by passenger numbers.

Here we go again. Just because Norway of reasons we all know sees a lot of domestic flying, not least from OSL, doesn't necessarily mean EK would do as well as from ARN. Having said that, I think EK will do well out of OSL. The brand itself brings them success almost no matter where they fly.

Hopefully the populist comment wasn't meant seriously, but just to tease us Danes  
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:05 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 7):
EK as good as always, range permitting, launches new routes with the A330. Next step up is 777 or A340, then 77W and eventually A380

Most recently in Europe, Barcelona was launched with B77W, Lisbon with B772ER, while Lyon will be launched with A345. Only Warsaw will initiate will A332, and Dublin saw the 330 for a mere 3 months. In the recent past Amsterdam and Geneva both received the B77L and B77W from the onset. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Stockholm gets at least a B772ER.
 
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:54 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 5):
I wonder if EK can offer any sort of codesharing with either DY or SK to feed passengers from domestic routes into its long haul network.

Really don't think this would be possible as EK will be competing with SK and DY for passengers heading East. For example, DY will be inaugurating flights next summer to BKK out of ARN and Oslo.
 
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:10 pm

Moreover, their A332/A343 is no longer a "competitive" product if they want to compete directly with the likes of EY/WY/QR or even the latest narrow-body product of GF. I don't talk about TG that now offers its latest product on the Scandinavian routes (744/773).

EK should have refurbished at least ten A332 to be on par with the 777 fleet in order to launch new routes just my opinion of course... But I recently saw a EK 772A interior which had a far superior product than the A332, and the latter is still younger in their fleet.
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:47 pm

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 11):
I don't talk about TG that now offers its latest product on the Scandinavian routes (744/773).

TG was supposed to operate its new B777-300ER into CPH for the summer 2013 season. But TG has changed its mind and will continue with the B744 and will reduce flight frequency. SK, as has been reported, will suspend BKK-CPH for the summer 2013 season.


http://airlineroute.net/2012/10/02/tg-cph-s13upate2/
 
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:24 pm

About the right time to discuss a summer launch. I'll be curious as to the gauge.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 2):
one of the remaining A345

Not a single one has left the fleet left, so they are all still remaining.

Interesting. I thought they were supposed to start leaving the fleet this year. I'm being laze and not looking at EK's annual report, were they on operating leases? I've been reading that several airlines have not depreciated their operating leases sufficiently for the 'current environment.' (No source as it was just an aviation blog post.) It will be interesting to see their fleet turnover strategy.

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HB-IWC
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:20 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
I thought they were supposed to start leaving the fleet this year.

Two A345s are slated to be withdrawn in July and November 2013 respectively. That is the current plan, because changes do happen. As such, EK will hang on to at least a number of A343s for another while. All 8 A343s were originally planned to be retired by March 2013.
 
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:49 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 14):
Two A345s are slated to be withdrawn in July and November 2013 respectively. That is the current plan, because changes do happen. As such, EK will hang on to at least a number of A343s for another while. All 8 A343s were originally planned to be retired by March 2013.

Thank you. Have any of the A343s left the fleet? I thought some had, but I'm not tracking that closely.

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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:39 am

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 8):
Here we go again. Just because Norway of reasons we all know sees a lot of domestic flying, not least from OSL, doesn't necessarily mean EK would do as well as from ARN. Having said that, I think EK will do well out of OSL. The brand itself brings them success almost no matter where they fly.

Granted, domestic traffic is a much bigger factor at OSL but you can't deny that international traffic is seeing huge growth. At the moment for example, the non-schengen gate area is being expanded so it can offer more stands for intercontinental flights and of course we are seeing a new terminal extension and pier being built.

It is inevitable that EK will start up in OSL... Just a matter of when.
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:57 am

I'm very happy for ARN and the wait has been longer than it ever should have been. Hopefully, OSL will come quickly there after.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 16):
the non-schengen gate area is being expanded so it can offer more stands for intercontinental flights

A bit off topic. Do you know what the plans for this are or where I can find them. I cannot find anything more detailed. I'm interested in knowing how many gates will be added (and which will become swing gates or stay as swing gates) and the size each gate (which will be class E, and C, etc) can take. I would expect gate 44 to become a swing gates (44/54) same with 45 (45/55), but nothing really to back that up.

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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:03 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 16):
At the moment for example, the non-schengen gate area is being expanded so it can offer more stands for intercontinental flights

Well, not more stands, but they tweeked the bridge positions a bit for more A330-types of aircrafts could park next to each other and not only 737s.

The expansion it it self isn't that big, but they expanded the area slightly to make some more room for passengers, but we shouldn't exaggarate it. So we still have to wait untill 2017 for the new pier to open

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 16):
international traffic is seeing huge growth.

+6,3% so far this year vs 5,6% for CPH, and still only about 50% of CPH international passengers.

The growth will probably continue, but due to capacity constrains the growth doesn't come that easy anymore

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 16):
It is inevitable that EK will start up in OSL... Just a matter of when.

Probably yet
 
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:55 am

Congratualation Stockholm  

I am surprised it took so long for Emirates to explore Scandinavia and the Nordics, but now they seem to follow Qatar's example.
 
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:17 am

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 2):
I believe the route would be launched using the A330, or perhaps less likely one of the remaining A345

Emirates will use Boeing 777-300ER on the Stockholm route.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 5):
Yep considering OSL is soon to take over CPH as Scandinavia's biggest airport by passenger numbers

Much of what carries Gardermoen to this position is domestic traffic. The market for international traffic is still larger in both Stockholm and Copenhagen.
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:21 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 20):

Emirates will use Boeing 777-300ER on the Stockholm route.

Wow, will be great to see the huge 777 at ARN.
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:17 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 16):
It is inevitable that EK will start up in OSL... Just a matter of when.

You can probably always say that when it comes to Emirates... They are expanding rapidly into all major markets in Europe and OSL is such a market. But inevitable is a strong word... It could take some time yet.
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:12 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 20):
Emirates will use Boeing 777-300ER on the Stockholm route.



Has this been confirmed?   
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 22):
They are expanding rapidly into all major markets in Europe and OSL is such a market. But inevitable is a strong word... It could take some time yet.

Count on both Stockholm and Oslo to be launched in 2013.
 
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:12 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 24):

I know it is a bit off-topic, but what about BRU? After OSL and ARN it will be the only remaining major Western European market not served by EK.
 
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:27 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):
I know it is a bit off-topic, but what about BRU? After OSL and ARN it will be the only remaining major Western European market not served by EK.



And also what about EDI to add to the list?

And to get back on topic. If EK launches ARN with 77W, I would assume a high density J and Y only bird correct?
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HB-IWC
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:17 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):
what about BRU?

Brussels is definitely on EK's radar screen. As a matter of fact, it was close to being launched for S12, but then AMS was upgauged to A388 and the intended capacity was shifted to Lisbon.

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 26):
what about EDI to add to the list?

With twice daily operations into Glasgow, I doubt that Edinburgh is on EK's list of priorities in Europe. Apart from Brussels, I would expect Helsinki, possibly in combination with an additional Eastern European destination, and maybe an additional Italian city to be considered. EK is of course continuing its search for additional access to the German market, which is currently blocked by bilateral restrictions. Finally, some additional capacity will be deployed to reinforced frequencies and upgauged capacity to existing destinations. The further development of the third European departure bank is definitely a priority as it will connect with the new Qantas arrivals into DXB.
 
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:27 am

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 26):
And to get back on topic. If EK launches ARN with 77W, I would assume a high density J and Y only bird correct?

That would probably be the ideal bird, but it will probably depend a bit on what is available.

However, I am a bit surprised they don't start with the A330-200. Even if it was only for the first 3 months, while the service builds up. I know the product is inferior (TG bring inferior product to ARN), but should still sell well.

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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):
I know it is a bit off-topic, but what about BRU? After OSL and ARN it will be the only remaining major Western European market not served by EK.

Add Marseille France if EK could ever gain more French rights... Not to mention STG and BER (note: I would bet against EK gaining those rights). So there are quite a few more markets to go as well as waht HB-IWC noted (Helsinki, or better connections to Italy).

I know your question was specific to Western Europe, but I think the greatest opportunity for EK is the large 'secondary' Chinese cities (Xi'an, Chungdu, Wuhan, Kunming, Chonquing, and Nanjing seem like obvious destinations and there might be four to six other candidates if EK received 'super rights').

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 26):
And also what about EDI to add to the list?

While normally I would agree with HB-IWC, I think there is potential for EDI. Oh, not a priority before 2015, but I think EK will eventually serve the city.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 27):
The further development of the third European departure bank is definitely a priority as it will connect with the new Qantas arrivals into DXB.

Now that will be an interesting development...

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 24):
Count on both Stockholm and Oslo to be launched in 2013.

Good to hear.

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arn777
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:12 am

Very good news for my old airport!! I actually thought ARN would come sooner and before CPH.

As of the "competition" between ARN and OSL I think ARN is the best choice. ARN is a greater market. But I am not surprised it was a close race OSL being the market with the highest yield in Scandinavia in addition to enormous cargo volumes.

Then the question is of OSL also will be launched in 2013 or if EK want to build up ARN first before adding another destination in Scandinavia.
 
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:08 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 24):
Count on both Stockholm and Oslo to be launched in 2013.

Apart from rumors from Norway I have seen nothing confirmed about Emirates starting flights to Oslo in 2013. On the contrary I read that Oslo is not in the immediate plans for Emirates in an recent article. Please do not ask for my source because I do not remember where I saw it but with all rumors coming out of OSL for the moment I am a bit sceptical   If those rumors were true we would see Etihad, Gulf Air, Emirates etc already now in Stockholm...

So I doubt it was a close race between OSL and ARN. Maybe they wanted to go to ARN all the time  
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 31):
Apart from rumors from Norway I have seen nothing confirmed about Emirates starting flights to Oslo in 2013.

...

So I doubt it was a close race between OSL and ARN.


Just as I know EK is coming to ARN next summer without any public confirmation from EK or Swedavia I also know that it was a close race between OSL and ARN, but as you probably know I cannot reveal my sources  . With regard to EK at OSL you just have to wait and see when they come.
 
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:58 pm

Quoting arn777 (Reply 32):
I also know that it was a close race between OSL and ARN, but as you probably know I cannot reveal my sources

We have heard things like this before so many times... especially from sources at OSL. You may be right but from what I have read about Emirates plans I doubt it. Just because airline representatives visit OSL you do not know their intentions unless you are a mind reader. With so many false rumors coming out of Norway this year I highly doubt any talks about close races. There is no comparison between the norwegian and swedish markets. Both markets differ so much so any talks about races between the two are based on strange assumptions. Either they look at OSL or ARN but races... no. If they want to carry norwegian tourists they go to OSL. If they want a share of the scandinavian business travel market they should not go to OSL but rather ARN or CPH.

You get the answer when Emirates enter the flights in the reservation systems. Until then I am more than sceptical about any rumors with norwegian origin. But I still like norwegian people  
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RE: Emirates Ready To Launch Stockholm Route

Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 33):
Both markets differ so much so any talks about races between the two are based on strange assumptions. Either they look at OSL or ARN but races... no. If they want to carry norwegian tourists they go to OSL. If they want a share of the scandinavian business travel market they should not go to OSL but rather ARN or CPH.

Ehhh right...............

It must bee the third time you are presenting this statement without even caring for checking your sources.
As usual I guess you will pass this post, just to bring up the statement again in 6 monts.
Norway's economy is almost the same size of Sweden (thous we are half the population).
It' was actually bigger in 2011. Average wages in Norway are 35% higher than in Sweden. Unemployment and lack of future brings hundred of thousand Sweedes to Norway to find a job that is ridiculously better paid than what they ever could have expected in Sweden. Norway has 50% more dollar millionares than sweden in nett numbers.
The list is long...

Also, OSL has a higher nett growth in international pax than ARN. The international market is just slightly bigger at ARN.

I think few people actually have any problems with seeing ARN beeing the second destination launched in Scandinavia.
I'm more surprised it was not the first as Sweden and Stockholm has a greater appeal in the world than Norway and Denmark.

Here are some bench markings that proves you wrong. (In Norwegian translated by google)


BA Norway

BA boss says that the good traffic figures between Norway and the United Kingdom stir among airline group management in London:

- In particular, one is impressed by the high percentage of business travelers. In terms of population, for example, Norway twice as large number of business and Denmark. The business traveler will not only to London, we also have a very high percentage of those traveling on with us to the rest of the world, says Rasmussen.

http://www.aftenposten.no/reise/nyheter/article2909345.ece

Lufthansa Norway

Scandinavia with Finland are very important for Lufthansa. For Norway is on the top internationally in the use of business travel, and the market is huge even though Norway has fewer residents than in the rest of Europe.

http://www.reiselivsavisen.no/wip4/v...ser-videre-i-norge/d.epl?id=577776

KLM international

- Financial Crisis? We have not noticed any of the financial crisis on our routes from Norway. We make it record good, despite the recession elsewhere in the world, says Daniel Eggenberger, head of Air France-KLM in Scandinavia, to the newspaper.

The newspaper writes that for KLM, Norway is the most important country as the number of passengers. The Norwegians also like to pay very well for for their tickets making our business product even more popular.

http://www.travelnews.no/no/Fly1/Rekordar-for-KLM/

Continental (United) and Thai have also expressed the same in media. Search and you will find.
There was also a similar article from Qatar this summer, but i cant find it now.

Also Norwegian air fare index presented their numbers this week stating that rates and fares are higher from OSL compared to ARN and CPH on both European and intercontinental services.