wnflyguy
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:01 am

Rumor is Spirit has signed a letter of intent to Buy all assets of F9 from RJET.
Formal Press release is rumored to be coming out in the next 2 weeks.
If true I wish all the F9 employees best of luck.
Now any speculation on What's going to be kept?
wnfg 
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
Jerseyguy
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:07 am

I so hope this isn't true, with there being so many mergers and the loss of airlines, we don't need to loose one more. All this does is eliminate another airline and make Spirit aka Ryanair USA bigger. The only consolation is that perhaps like the WN/FL merger maybe it will take years for NK to canabilize F9.

[Edited 2012-12-10 18:08:58]
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FWAERJ
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:30 am

In a merged F9/NK, I could see less DEN growth and more growth at DFW, at West Coast airports, and in Florida (where both NK and F9 have been growing as of late).

Both F9 and NK have substantial A32x delivery books including NEOs, but aren't NK's Airbuses IAE-powered and F9's powered by CFM? (Though I think both chose Pratts for their NEOs.) Also, would the substantial F9 C-Series order be toast, or would it be used as ammunition against fellow ULCC G4 at smaller airports?
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jfklganyc
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:10 am

It is fitting with the direction Spirit has gone lately...lot's of mid continent, domestic growth.

This has been rumored for a while
 
wnflyguy
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:29 am

If this rumor turns out to be true this will be a great match up of networks.
Spirit Airlines "a animal of a new Low cost frontier."
Keep the Billboard look with S P I R I T and Animals on the tail.
I can see MDW being dropped for ORD. SFO for OAK.
wnfg  
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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TWA772LR
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:44 am

I'd love to see F9 stick around. It seems like they are the only airline that passengers actually like and hardly no one on this website complains about.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 4):
The C-series order is Republic's and they have confirmed that no matter what they aren't going to F9.

Then what the hell are they for then!? Is Republic gonna start their own "Republic Airlines"? Or what??? This CSeries order has kept me confused for a long time.
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
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enilria
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:41 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Rumor is Spirit has signed a letter of intent to Buy all assets of F9 from RJET.
Formal Press release is rumored to be coming out in the next 2 weeks.
If true I wish all the F9 employees best of luck.
Now any speculation on What's going to be kept?
wnfg
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
In a merged F9/NK, I could see less DEN growth and more growth at DFW, at West Coast airports, and in Florida (where both NK and F9 have been growing as of late).

If true it is a mercy killing...

I wouldn't expect much of F9 to be retained. I'm not sure why NK would even do it. F9 isn't in their way and they don't have anything of value to NK. It would have to be a deal for almost no money I'd think.
 
airliner371
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:48 am

If this happens this will benefit UA and WN greatly. The F9 brand would likely be wiped out and some big network changes would happen. I'd say that many F9 fliers would move to UA and WN and NK will get the passengers they aim for, the ones that won't fly unless its dirt cheap.

Plus if NK still doesn't want to operate out of DCA the 4 F9 out of perimeter slots would go up for auction benefiting whatever airline(s) wins them.

Quoting enilria (Reply 12):
and they don't have anything of value to NK.

I think that goes alittle to far to say no value but very little would be true. NK would get a good amount of Airbus aircraft and more LGA slots. The only reason I think this would happen is because NK wants planes to expand and Republic wants F9 gone before anything goes bad after they worked to make things go alright.

[Edited 2012-12-10 20:50:26]
 
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mariner
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:03 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 13):
NK would get a good amount of Airbus aircraft and more LGA slots.

Spirit has its own big Airbus order (75?) and Frontier has very few LGA slots.

I can't see what value this supposed deal would be to Republic - unless it was for quite a lot of money.

mariner
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enilria
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:06 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 13):
Quoting enilria (Reply 12):
and they don't have anything of value to NK.

I think that goes alittle to far to say no value but very little would be true. NK would get a good amount of Airbus aircraft and more LGA slots. The only reason I think this would happen is because NK wants planes to expand and Republic wants F9 gone before anything goes bad after they worked to make things go alright.

They really don't. F9's only real asset is DCA-DEN authority and NK just closed DCA...and they can't sell it to WN. Airbus 319s and 320s are dirt cheap. They could easily get planes if they wanted them. F9's fleet isn't special in any way.

Republic would take any offer for RJET. There is a huge fare ware going on in DEN right now (the last week or so) with fares as long a $14  and I'm sure that got Bedford's attention. WN decided to stop ignoring NK and take a stand by matching them. It's a financial disaster. I can see NK buying F9 to stick it in WN's eye and eliminate F9, but I don't think it makes much sense unless it is basically free. F9 has been shopped to NK before and NK has said no. The only thing that has changed is that NK entered DEN which seemingly makes a deal less likely. In the last week F9 exited AZA where they overlapped with NK and NK added DEN-DTW overlapping F9. There's definitely sparring going on. It doesn't seem like a very pleasant game for two partners.
 
AirframeAS
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:12 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 7):
Coming from someone at AS.

Nice try. I'm not at AS.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 7):
Well if you read the thread there is rather new information on a possible letter of intent.

This isn't new info. This is a rumor. A RUMOR. Big difference. I don't see a valid source to said rumor. I take this with an aircraft carrier load of salt until then.

So, got a deeply crediable source that we an analyze on, airliner371?
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
dbo861
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:13 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 15):
In the last week F9 exited AZA where they overlapped with NK and NK added DEN-DTW overlapping F9.

I thought F9 is operating DEN-AZA seasonally..so not necessarily exiting the market.
 
FutureUScapt
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:29 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 13):

Plus if NK still doesn't want to operate out of DCA the 4 F9 out of perimeter slots would go up for auction benefiting whatever airline(s) wins them.

Minor correction, but F9 only has three pairs of beyond perimeter slots.
 
airliner371
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:29 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
Nice try. I'm not at AS.

Not just employee to employee but fan to fan and employee to fan. Of course there are nice employees and fans of AS, I am just generalizing. Frankly its easier for a fan or employee to just be nice in a conversation and not start by being rude to someone because the nice person is taken more seriously.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
So, got a deeply crediable source that we an analyze on, airliner371?

Information is a rather poor choice of words on my part in that sentence. Replace it with rumor. You can say its not new etc... Everything is always evolving and new things always develop. My point of this sentence is let the thread play out (on topic) and see whats new.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 18):
Minor correction, but F9 only has three pairs of beyond perimeter slots.

Typo, thanks for the correction.

[Edited 2012-12-10 21:39:56]
 
asteriskceo
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:08 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 7):
Coming from someone at AS. Notice that all the hate between AS and WN comes from AS. WN people are just contributing but it's always the AS people that come in at hate. Not just you but multiple AS people. AS is in for some trouble if thats the culture they have.

I've stayed quiet in the past, but I have to agree. The bashing tends to come from the AS side, especially from AirframeAS. Apparently competition makes him bitter, or just threatened. Just stop trolling buddy; It's not attractive.   
 
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lightsaber
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:21 pm

Ironically, I think F9 would do well going to Spirit's ULCC model. It would be quite a transition, but a viable one. For Spirit, it taps them instandly into the DEN market. Worth it? That I'll let others debate. At least it has somewhat of a business case (unlike EY buying IT).

Quoting mariner (Reply 9):
There's an upside to everything.

   Touche'

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
So, got a deeply crediable source that we an analyze on, airliner371?

Not required when the tile and OP post has followed a.net's guidelines on a rumor.

Lightsaber
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enilria
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:34 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 17):
Quoting enilria (Reply 15):
In the last week F9 exited AZA where they overlapped with NK and NK added DEN-DTW overlapping F9.

I thought F9 is operating DEN-AZA seasonally..so not necessarily exiting the market.

They had not said it was seasonal until now. That's a warning sign.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 18):

Plus if NK still doesn't want to operate out of DCA the 4 F9 out of perimeter slots would go up for auction benefiting whatever airline(s) wins them.

Minor correction, but F9 only has three pairs of beyond perimeter slots.

Air21 beyond perimeter slots cannot be sold. They must be returned. Even in some mergers they have been surrendered due to the way the law is written.
 
sdoyon
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:41 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 22):
Air21 beyond perimeter slots cannot be sold. They must be returned. Even in some mergers they have been surrendered due to the way the law is written.

I don't believe the 3x DCA-DEN are operated with Air21 slots...I think they're just perimeter exempted slots. Can someone confirm/deny/inform?

My apologies:

”Sec. 41718. Special rules for Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport

''(a) Beyond-Perimeter Exemptions.--The Secretary shall grant, by order, 12 exemptions from the application of sections 49104(a)(5), 49109, 49111(e), and 41714 of this title to air carriers to operate limited frequencies and aircraft on select routes between Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport and domestic hub airports and exemptions from the requirements of subparts K and S of part 93, Code of Federal Regulations, if the Secretary finds that the exemptions will--

(1) provide air transportation with domestic network benefits in areas beyond the perimeter described in that section;

(2) increase competition by new entrant air carriers or in multiple markets;

(3) not reduce travel options for communities served by small hub airports and medium hub airports within the perimeter described in section 49109; and

(4)not result in meaningfully increased travel delays. “


[Edited 2012-12-11 06:49:28]
 
sdoyon
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:53 pm

Although now that I've gone and found that AIR21 definition...I can't fine the slot proceedings from this spring regarding the perimeter-exempt slots [WN to AUS, B6 to SJU, etc...] on regulations.gov ... indicating to me that they're considered different? Someone help!
 
DTWPurserBoy
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:58 pm

IMHO I wish they would keep the F9 service model. F9 provides an outstanding product while Spirit is pretty much bare bones and has had a checkered past with customer service issues.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
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seabosdca
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:59 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
Ironically, I think F9 would do well going to Spirit's ULCC model. It would be quite a transition, but a viable one.

Sadly, you may be right. But I am one occasional Frontier customer they would lose. Frontier is an attractive way to travel between DCA and the Pacific Northwest, and the fares are often excellent. But if the flights were operated using the Spirit model I would avoid booking them.
 
strfyr51
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:04 pm

somebody should have attempted to merge with F9 LONG before now.
F9 is a solid company and were Spirit to merge with them a second hub at a western Gateway city like Denver? Could be tremendously advantageous
 
msp747
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
Ironically, I think F9 would do well going to Spirit's ULCC model. It would be quite a transition, but a viable one. For Spirit, it taps them instandly into the DEN market. Worth it? That I'll let others debate. At least it has somewhat of a business case (unlike EY buying IT).

I thought F9 was on the record as an airline trying to adopt the ultra low cost carrier way of business. They might not be as obnoxious about it as NK, but they do charge you now for everything, including seat assignments. To avoid the fees, you have to buy a higher class fare. I'm not complaining, since it seems to be helping them stabilize. Plus, they offer more services and more comfort than NK
 
mcg
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 9):
There's an upside to everything.  

Good point and good post, thanks!
 
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enilria
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 23):
I don't believe the 3x DCA-DEN are operated with Air21 slots...I think they're just perimeter exempted slots. Can someone confirm/deny/inform?

The newest beyond perimeter slots were not newly created slots, so they may be another category, but the beyond perimeter slots have never been transferable. AA was required to return TW's DCA-LAX slot and they merged. Since then the airlines have figured out a way to preserve them in mergers, but beyond perimeter slots have never been transferred by a slot sale/lease/transaction.
 
EricR
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:02 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 22):
Quoting dbo861 (Reply 17):
Quoting enilria (Reply 15):
In the last week F9 exited AZA where they overlapped with NK and NK added DEN-DTW overlapping F9.

I thought F9 is operating DEN-AZA seasonally..so not necessarily exiting the market.

They had not said it was seasonal until now. That's a warning sign.



I highly doubt those announcements are any indication of a potential merger. That would be considered collusion and both companies could be in serious trouble. Even if the merger was officially announced, both airlines would still be required to compete as separate entities until the merger has been approved & closed. If they started optimizing networks prior to full approval, both airlines could face repercussions from the government.
 
SPREE34
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Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:13 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
but aren't NK's Airbuses IAE-powered and F9's powered by CFM?

Pretty much irrelevant, as mixing is seen in so many fleets and types anymore and engines are send off for repair, rather than running their own shop.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
B757capt
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:52 pm

No one has said this but what keeps spirit from buying frontier and then keeping the frontier brand and image.

Spirit has taken a beating in the public forum. This might be an opportunity for them to get a better image.

[Edited 2012-12-11 09:52:39]

[Edited 2012-12-11 09:53:10]
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YNGguins
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:53 pm

We heard a similar rumor about Allegiant and Spirit and nothing came of it... I don't expect anything to come of this rumor either.
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jmc1975
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:35 pm

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 1):
You cant post rumors, especially about such a sensitive topic...provide some backup or this thread should be locked ASAP!!

   Sounds like somebody has not been a part of a.net very long.
.......
 
sdoyon
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:59 pm

Quoting PSA727LAX (Reply 36):
Why is this thread being commented on now? Posted Feb 2011 first reply wasn;t until 2012. There is also a thread about DL & VS merging that was started in 2004 then not replied too until 2012. (Ahem!!)

I think you might be looking in the wrong place. This thread was started about 18 hours ago. The initial poster [wnflyguy] joined in Feb 2011.
 
PSA727LAX
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:12 pm

Ahhhh! Thank you! I guess I was still smarting from having to ask the same question on an industry site for work (Wastewater Industry) where the thread was started in 2007 and then went silent after a few replies over the first couple days after posting only to find it crop up again today.

To this thread, rumors can cause serious issues that might end up being really bad for some folks. If in fact this is goin forward it would seem that Spirit has cleaned up their books or are they hoping an economy of scale with this possible merger/acquisition will keep them flying? Weren't they about to go belly up earlier this year?
 
catiii
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:25 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 27):
somebody should have attempted to merge with F9 LONG before now.
F9 is a solid company and were Spirit to merge with them a second hub at a western Gateway city like Denver? Could be tremendously advantageous

B6 always seemed like the best matchup for F9 with the fleet commonality, similar onboard products and corporate culture. B6 would be able to synergize the F9 network into its own, gain a presence in the midwest and a hub in the mountain west, and compete on a larger scale than they are now.
 
Prost
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:51 pm

Perhaps B6 are happy with the size and scale that they are? B6 has been quiet on all of the M&As that have been happening, perhaps their view is to grow organically, continue to offer exemplary service to their customers and be a great place to work?

Sounds like a sound strategy to me.
 
spiritair97
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:02 pm

I think this could be a VERY good move for both sides. I've flown boh numerous times and the F9 aircraft are some of the most comfortable planes I've been on (including DL, WN, B6, NK, etc...). However, F9 is not in the best of positions. NK could benefit from more aircraft, more slots at some slot-controlled airports. Sadly, however, if this were to happen, F9 would be gone, their beautifullivery would be toast, and their IFS would vanish. The aircraft would be transformed into regular NK aircraft, losing all thereason F9 is comfortable at all.         
 
catiii
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:12 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 38):
Perhaps B6 are happy with the size and scale that they are? B6 has been quiet on all of the M&As that have been happening, perhaps their view is to grow organically, continue to offer exemplary service to their customers and be a great place to work?

Sounds like a sound strategy to me.

Who was saying it wasn't a sound strategy?
 
ouboy79
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:58 pm

Reposting some earlier comments that got zapped because someone else was bad. Left out the quote from the delete post...

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 7):
Coming from someone at AS. Notice that all the hate between AS and WN comes from AS. WN people are just contributing but it's always the AS people that come in at hate. Not just you but multiple AS people. AS is in for some trouble if thats the culture they have.

I don't really understand so much hate coming from AS. Any AS crew member I speak to is always wonderful and also very complimentary on our great non-rev treatment. There are always a few bad apples, that are normally vocal, in every bunch so I don't hold it against AS as a whole at all. I'll continue to be helpful and take care of AS non-revvers as I would any other customer - sometimes more so.  
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 10):
Then what!
the hell are they for then!? Is Republic gonna start their own "Republic Airlines"? Or what??? This CSeries order has kept me confused for a long time.

Could position Republic as a leasing agent for the C-Series to position them with other airlines that don't want to take a risk right away, but still have excellent delivery positions. Say for SnGs that American wanted a new aircraft to go between the CR7 and 738. Republic is then sitting on all these delivery slots for the new C-Series and it is getting rave reviews during proving flights. AA can go to Republic and work out a lease agreement for the aircraft, flown by AA crews, and try them out without having to order them themselves. Works out pretty well. That's just one scenario on how it could play out though.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:26 pm

Quoting Asteriskceo (Reply 14):
The bashing tends to come from the AS side, especially from AirframeAS.

One Mo time, IM NOT FROM AS!!!!!!

Now, no bashing from me, I'm very pro-F9. I want to see F9 prosper, if you have seen ANY of my posts on any of the Frontier threads, my position speaks for itself.. However, F9 doesn't need NK. This NK rumor is highly ridiculous and this rumor has been brought up numerous times over and over and over on the Frontier threads before. I'm not sure exactly why the OP feels this is news when a source was not provided (or from anyone for that matter).....at all. This thread should be in polls and prefs forum, IMO.

If you want a troll, then look at a certain someone, cuz it ain't me. I'm pro-F9 as they come. To discredit me was highly inappropriate.

No one from AS hates F9, as far as I know. I want to make that very well known.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
N766UA
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:33 pm

Ugh, God I hope not. F9 isn't the best, but they're hugely more preferable than Spirit. We don't need any more 260 seat A320s around...
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enilria
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:18 am

Summarizing my opinion, I don't think the schedule change indicates a merger. I think it indicates that NK is a problem for F9 in DEN and there were plenty of problems already.

As stated, I actually agree with Mariner that Spirit seems to gain nothing from this. F9 really has nothing of value except a few slots that NK probably doesn't want and only some of which can be sold. NK buying F9 would really be community service for the industry since most want F9 dead.

The only logic I can really see is that NK wants to get much bigger in DFW before AA exits and this might allow that. Even that is pretty doubtful as mergers take a year or two and they could get used aircraft pretty easily with fewer headaches.

All that being said, it's more likely than B6. B6 loathes competing in a situation like DEN. They attempt to control their hubs through slots and gates. They also compete less and less on price. DEN doesn't fit at all and once again planes are everywhere with no employee baggage.

If this turns out to be false, I think the tea leaves are saying RJET reverses itself and keeps F9. It's their only move.
 
airliner371
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:27 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
All that being said, it's more likely than B6. B6 loathes competing in a situation like DEN. They attempt to control their hubs through slots and gates. They also compete less and less on price. DEN doesn't fit at all and once again planes are everywhere with no employee baggage.

All that plus B6 has said they don't want to be part of any mergers. Now they can always change there mind but with all you said plus this, I agree, its a no for B6.
 
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mariner
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
NK buying F9 would really be community service for the industry since most want F9 dead.

Oh, come on.

I very much doubt that RJET shareholders - who are the only people that matter here - want Frontier dead and if the CEO gave the airline away for chump change, as you claim, I suspect he might face some justifiable shareholder anger - unless there was some clear and compelling value to the deal.

mariner

[Edited 2012-12-11 16:43:59]
aeternum nauta
 
flyby519
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:51 am

Quoting Catiii (Reply 32):
B6 always seemed like the best matchup for F9 with the fleet commonality, similar onboard products and corporate culture. B6 would be able to synergize the F9 network into its own, gain a presence in the midwest and a hub in the mountain west, and compete on a larger scale than they are now.

Apparently, F9 has been pitched to B6 on several occasions, but B6 has turned them down.

Quoting Prost (Reply 33):
Perhaps B6 are happy with the size and scale that they are? B6 has been quiet on all of the M&As that have been happening, perhaps their view is to grow organically, continue to offer exemplary service to their customers and be a great place to work?

Sounds like a sound strategy to me.

Somebody has to pick up the LGA/DCA slots when NK/F9 tosses them out! That strategy has worked for B6 so far.
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CIDFlyer
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:10 am

I really hope this isnt true...or if it is, NK keeps the smaller stations open. F9 is doing a good job at connecting some smaller markets ignored by the likes of WN and B6. If NK should merge with anyone they should do it with G4, they seem to have the same operating strategy. Make G4 a nationwide Ultra low cost carrier.
 
flyby519
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:22 am

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 44):
I really hope this isnt true...or if it is, NK keeps the smaller stations open. F9 is doing a good job at connecting some smaller markets ignored by the likes of WN and B6. If NK should merge with anyone they should do it with G4, they seem to have the same operating strategy. Make G4 a nationwide Ultra low cost carrier.

But hasnt F9 been attempting to re-brand themselves as an ultra low cost carrier? I remember reading some press releases to that effect from F9.

Whatever F9 has been doing in the past hasnt worked. They have been grasping at straws (MSY, TTN) lately.
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CIDFlyer
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:12 am

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 45):

But hasnt F9 been attempting to re-brand themselves as an ultra low cost carrier? I remember reading some press releases to that effect from F9.

Whatever F9 has been doing in the past hasnt worked. They have been grasping at straws (MSY, TTN) lately.

they are, but they still allow for a free bag of checked luggage and have directv on A320's
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:26 am

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 46):
they are, but they still allow for a free bag of checked luggage and have directv on A320's

Free bag at select fare levels. If you buy the least expensive ticket, the first bag is $25.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:54 am

Quoting msp747 (Reply 22):
Plus, they offer more services and more comfort than NK

Which means they aren't ULCC (too few seats). I think F9 could make more money as a true ULCC. I know many here do not want to see them establish in the US, but they have (e.g., Spirit and Allergiant).

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 26):
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
but aren't NK's Airbuses IAE-powered and F9's powered by CFM?

Pretty much irrelevant, as mixing is seen in so many fleets and types anymore and engines are send off for repair, rather than running their own shop.

Agreed. It is not like 30 years ago where the airline had to have a whole supply chain just for the engines. Mixed engine types are an easy thing to deal with in a merger with the way engines are serviced today.

Quoting Catiii (Reply 32):
B6 always seemed like the best matchup for F9 with the fleet commonality, similar onboard products and corporate culture.

B6 is allergic to the F9 unions. Which begs the question, how much of a union impact would this be for Spirit?

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 44):
Whatever F9 has been doing in the past hasnt worked. They have been grasping at straws (MSY, TTN) lately.

Sad but true. Perhaps it is time to shift the model?

Lightsaber
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dlramp4life
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:16 am

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 43):
If NK should merge with anyone they should do it with G4, they seem to have the same operating strategy. Make G4 a nationwide Ultra low cost carrier.
G4 is a vacation company... They sell hotel rooms, show tickets, rental cars, and so forth

NK operates more like a normal airline then G4 does i.e connecting flights

I don't see them merging... To be honest I don't see NK merging with anyone, who wants them? They seem to ULCC for even G4.

Sad to see AZA-DEN service go seasonal though, what made this happen? They could not support a E190?

[Edited 2012-12-11 21:18:27]
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enilria
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RE: Rumour: Spirit Airlines Buying Frontier Airlines?

Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:16 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 40):

Yes, B6 would only happen if it was some bizarre plan to park B6 E190s and harvest airplanes. I give that a 2% chance of happening. G4 or NK is probably their best shot. G4 is better than NK probably because their fleet is old and they are supposed to be getting Airbus right? Both have reason to eliminate F9. I still think the bad outweighs the good and if it were me I'd do neither deal with my money.

Quoting mariner (Reply 41):

Come on. Obviously Frontier and it's owners don't want Frontier dead. That's obvious. They want money from it.

The rest of the industry sees Denver as a bubble that will burst and most think F9 going away would accomplish that. UA closing the hub would also, but that's not happening.

In general, as anybody who listens to airline earnings calls or Wall Street guidance knows, they all want less capacity in the industry. F9 being liquidated is one way of that happening.

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