Lofty
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BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:35 am

BA have announced the new configs for the B787 and A380

B787 214 seats
Club World - 35 in 2 3 2
World travller plus - 25 in 2 3 2
World Travller - 154 in 3 3 3

A380 469
Main Deck
Enhanced First - 14
Club World - 44 in 2 4 2
World Travller - 199 in 3 4 3
Upper Deck
Club World - 53 in 2 3 2
World Travller Plus - 55 in 2 3 2
World Travller - 104 in 2 4 2

With the excption of Enhanced First all will have the same seats as the current B777-300
 
audidudi
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:07 am

I look forward to seeing the first photos of the Enhanced First!
 
AirbusA6
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:11 am

Disappointing that their 787s will be 9Y, though the good news is that there's a decent sized Y section upstairs on the A380, as this 2-4-2 section is VERY popular.
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aerolover27
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:27 am

wat routes are BA flying the A380s?
 
tcxdegsy
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:11 pm

Intruiged what the "Enhanced" element of First will be!
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seansasLCY
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:15 pm

 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:33 pm

Interesting that BA being an airline which has for the past few years operated its long haul fleet with the lowest passenger densities around, will now fit 60 or more passengers onto an A380 compared to Korean Air
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:35 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 6):
Interesting that BA being an airline which has for the past few years operated its long haul fleet with the lowest passenger densities around, will now fit 60 or more passengers onto an A380 compared to Korean Air

Still fewer seats compared to SQ, EK, AF or LH.
 
LondonCity
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:37 pm

There's much more information and quotes from Willy Walsh on Business Traveller.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/new.../ba-b787-and-a380-layout-confirmed

Pity that BA has decided to configure Y class 3-3-3 on its B787 but I suppose that's to be expected, given that every other carrier (except NH/JL) have adopted that layout.

Walsh says that the exact seat plans of another 16 x B787-9 aircraft on order for delivery in 2015 have yet to be finalised. These planes could have three or four cabin layouts.
 
jfk777
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:40 pm

Was waiting for a new Club World on the A380 and 787, same old seats. BA has a chance to enhance its J class with the arrival of the new planes and seems stuck in 2000.
 
scrappy27
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:46 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
seems stuck in 2000.

2nd generation flat beds in CW were introduced around 2007
 
unityofsaints
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:02 pm

Quoting Lofty (Thread starter):
World Travller - 104 in 2 4 2

Upper deck Y, always a treat but unfortunately far too rare (until now!)
 
jfk777
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:06 pm

Quoting scrappy27 (Reply 10):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
seems stuck in 2000.

2nd generation flat beds in CW were introduced around 2007

2007 was a generation ago in the arms race of F and J seats, thanks for pointing out BA is stuck in the last decade.
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:07 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
Was waiting for a new Club World on the A380 and 787, same old seats. BA has a chance to enhance its J class with the arrival of the new planes and seems stuck in 2000.

You are wrong. The seats will not be the same as the existing First and CW seats.
 
ozglobal
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:31 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
Quoting scrappy27 (Reply 10):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
seems stuck in 2000.

2nd generation flat beds in CW were introduced around 2007

2007 was a generation ago in the arms race of F and J seats, thanks for pointing out BA is stuck in the last decade.

That's a funny accusation to level at BA from the US, where J was stuck 3 generations behind until about 2 years ago. BA has a good product which balances passenger comfort with density to generate yield. It could probably always be improved, but US carriers are making their first inroads into a flat bed in international J, whereas BA was already there 12 or 13 years ago...
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
jfk777
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:09 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 14):
That's a funny accusation to level at BA from the US, where J was stuck 3 generations behind until about 2 years ago. BA has a good product which balances passenger comfort with density to generate yield. It could probably always be improved, but US carriers are making their first inroads into a flat bed in international J, whereas BA was already there 12 or 13 years ago...

Sadly you are mostly right. But the same could be sad of your French airline and its cousin, KLM.
 
LY777
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:33 pm

I still don't get the 2-3-2 config in C on the 787s and 2-4-2 config on the A380s. I read good reviews concerning BA C seats, but I don't get how these seats can be comfy, and wide enough for a true C class.
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readytotaxi
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:41 pm

Looking at the seat map of the A380, what's with the missing seat in the centre of Y ?
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Stitch
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:49 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 16):
I still don't get the 2-3-2 config in C on the 787s and 2-4-2 config on the A380s. I read good reviews concerning BA C seats, but I don't get how these seats can be comfy, and wide enough for a true C class.

Per SeatGutu the Club World seat on the 777-300ER is 21" wide at 2+4+2, which is "industry-standard" for a Business Class seat (sans SQ, but they use a unique style).
 
ozglobal
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):
Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 14):
That's a funny accusation to level at BA from the US, where J was stuck 3 generations behind until about 2 years ago. BA has a good product which balances passenger comfort with density to generate yield. It could probably always be improved, but US carriers are making their first inroads into a flat bed in international J, whereas BA was already there 12 or 13 years ago...

Sadly you are mostly right. But the same could be sad of your French airline and its cousin, KLM.

And another reason I don't fly AF on long haul, but at least they've had angled lie flat for 10 years. As for KLM on long haul...   
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
Geo772
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:50 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 16):
I still don't get the 2-3-2 config in C on the 787s and 2-4-2 config on the A380s. I read good reviews concerning BA C seats, but I don't get how these seats can be comfy, and wide enough for a true C class.

Pretty comfy in my opinion. While there will always be airlines that offer a plusher product, the BA Club World cabin is extremely good. Understated and functional, rather than flamboyant and luxurious.
I am intrigued though about what the centre seat in the 3 will be like.

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 17):
Looking at the seat map of the A380, what's with the missing seat in the centre of Y ?

That is an escape hatch for the lower crew rest compartment. You'll find the exact same thing on Singapore.
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scrappy27
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:20 pm

It's all good knocking BA... but many people seem to forget the fact that they were the airline that introduced the flat bed to business class... and many airlines followed suit!
 
roseflyer
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 16):
I still don't get the 2-3-2 config in C on the 787s and 2-4-2 config on the A380s. I read good reviews concerning BA C seats, but I don't get how these seats can be comfy, and wide enough for a true C class.

The modern seats have variable seat width. It’s wider at the seat cushion and elbows and narrower at the footwell. That is what all the latest staggered seating designs are all about. The old classic 2-3-2 recliner seats wasted a lot of space. The staggered seats reduce wasted space in the arm rests and foot area. Tray tables are also no longer stored in armrests, but rather take up space that had been for the foot area. The downside is there is far less storage space.

BA uses reverse directions to give adequate width. The Thompson seat design that most airlines are choosing on their A380s are essentially the same 8 abreast width that BA has. Each row only has 4 seats in it, but the rows are only 40’’ of pitch instead of 78’’ on BA. The general setup is that the shoulders are the widest part of the seat and lineup with the foot area of the next person’s seat.

The only high density design not using this philosophy is PreMerger United which got the width by having narrow armrests and reverse direction seats with variable aisle width (if you look down the aisle in UA, it jogs back and forth a bit).

Once you sit in the latest seats, you'll notice a tight foot area, but at elbow width, the seats are just as wide.
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readytotaxi
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:48 pm

Quoting Geo772 (Reply 20):
That is an escape hatch for the lower crew rest compartment. You'll find the exact same thing on Singapore.

Thank you, didn't know that one.  
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
LondonCity
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:51 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 22):
Once you sit in the latest seats, you'll notice a tight foot area, but at elbow width, the seats are just as wide.

Roseflyer - What you say is very interesting and logical. However I wonder if the average traveller will understand ? For someone planning to fly the B787 and faced with a choice between QR's 1-2-1 and BA's 2-3-2 layout, would he or she understand these fine points you mention ?
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:14 pm

G'day

I find the loo err.... lavatory arrangement in the economy sections of the BA A 380 leaves to be desired. There only seem to be two lavatories for 199 world traveller's on the lower floor, there seem to be four on the upper floor for 104 world traveller's which seems more adequate, but the doors of two of them seem to be right in front of a seat row

http://www.flightglobal.com/Assets/GetAsset.aspx?ItemID=48942

The upper floor also shows not enough lavatories for Club, so it appears the final configuration is not quite defined yet.

Small details I admit, but they can become quite important on longer journeys  


Cheers

Peter
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Motorhussy
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:25 pm

In the A380, how does one access a colleague if you're in separate Business class cabins?

And, as with others, am looking forward to the seeing the enhancements in First.
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tardis
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:33 pm

I can't wait to see the 787 in BA colours!
 
scrappy27
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:40 pm

Will the 787 engines be white, as in most the the already published pics?? Or can be paint them blue like the rest of the fleet??
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:58 pm

Quoting audidudi (Reply 1):
as this 2-4-2 section is VERY popular.

Yes I would think. Will BA sale these at a slight premium or will they be open to first come first serve at online check in like everything else?

As far as I know BA is the first airline to put such an extensive economy offering on the upper deck. AF has the premium and a small normal economy, Lufthansa has none, Qantas has the premium economy and Emirates has none.
 
theginge
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:12 pm

Quoting scrappy27 (Reply 28):
Will the 787 engines be white, as in most the the already published pics?? Or can be paint them blue like the rest of the fleet??

Has been mentioned on other threads, something to do with the material they are made out of, its not very easy to paint without losing some of its aerodynamic properties.
 
LondonCity
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:12 pm

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 29):
As far as I know BA is the first airline to put such an extensive economy offering on the upper deck.

I believe you are correct. TG and MH also have a Y class zone on the upper deck. MH's zone accommodates 70 passengers. Don't some of SQ's original A380s still feature a small Y cabin upstairs too ?
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:00 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 26):
In the A380, how does one access a colleague if you're in separate Business class cabins?

Staircase? If through the first class, I can see the airlines being reluctant to have J pax using them, but well, it's not like J pax will spend 8 hours running up and down the stair case anyway (at least one would expect - with some pax, you never know!).
However, if traveling with a colleague in J, I would expect the airline to be able to accommodate both people on the same floor, at the very least. It is J class, not cattle class, after all. Yes, I understand last minute changes, last minute check-ins, etc... etc... but we aren't talking cheap fares.
Airlines who do not understand customer service have not much to do in the J class business, imo.
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Viscount724
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:10 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 16):
I still don't get the 2-3-2 config in C on the 787s and 2-4-2 config on the A380s. I read good reviews concerning BA C seats, but I don't get how these seats can be comfy, and wide enough for a true C class.

They're wide enough because of the alternating forward-backward arrangement. That permits the seat cushion to be wider since you don't need as much width for your legs. The seats wouldn't fit if they all faced forward. It also permits them to generate a lot more revenue from the same real estate since more they can install more seats in the same area than if all the seats faced forward with fewer seats abreast.

The only negative I've seen from the BA J layout is that window seat passengers all face backwards which some passengers probably don't like, and all window seat (and middle seat) passengers (except a very few near the bulkheads) have to climb over a sleeping passenger's legs if they wish to leave their seat during the flight.

I personally prefer the all-forward facing configuration used by LX and a few others with alternating 1-2-1, 2-2-1 rows on A330/340s, which permits all except a few passengers to have direct aisle access and doesn't require as much seat pitch as the BA configuration due to the way your feet slot into the space next to the offset seat in front.
 
atlflyer
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:15 pm

Isn't boarding going to be a mess with so many different classes scattered on the upper and lower deck?
 
Windowseater
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:59 pm

I'm getting a good feeling about the way BA have configured their A380s, particularly the CW cabin in the upper deck.

Comparing with what's out there already on upper deck A380s in J class:

- 76 seats on EK
- 98 seats on LH
- 60 seats on SQ
- 94 seats on KE
- 70 seats on CZ

I think the guys at BA's aircraft configuration and planning teams should be happy with the way they've chosen to configure and balance the premium and mass class factor on their A380s.

Can't wait to try the A380 on BA!

Windowseater

[Edited 2012-12-11 16:07:48]
'To invent an airplane is nothing. To build one is something. To fly is everything.' - Otto Lilienthal
 
roseflyer
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:19 am

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 24):

Roseflyer - What you say is very interesting and logical. However I wonder if the average traveller will understand ? For someone planning to fly the B787 and faced with a choice between QR's 1-2-1 and BA's 2-3-2 layout, would he or she understand these fine points you mention ?

I think it may scare some people, but in the end, it is really all about seat comfort.

UA's 2-4-2 does not seem good, and in reality if you are in a middle seat it isn't, but 75% of the passengers have a good seat. BA is somewhat similar although sometimes people prefer the middle seats since it is like a private cabin.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
qf002
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:49 am

Quoting Atlflyer (Reply 34):
Isn't boarding going to be a mess with so many different classes scattered on the upper and lower deck?

Definitely.

It looks to me like the middle J seat in the new blocks of 3 has a nice little storage/work surface next to it. I'm definitely interested to see what that's about, 'Enhanced First' will just be a slightly more spacious version of the seat they already have.
 
frigatebird
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:53 am

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 31):
Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 29):As far as I know BA is the first airline to put such an extensive economy offering on the upper deck.
I believe you are correct. TG and MH also have a Y class zone on the upper deck. MH's zone accommodates 70 passengers. Don't some of SQ's original A380s still feature a small Y cabin upstairs too ?

Only SQ's newest A380's have no Y on the upper deck. Not sure about the regs though.

AF has an Y section on the upper deck as well. Was early to book and claim a window seat at the emergency exit    What no-one told me however, was that the overhead bin there is extremely small (it resembles a letterbox, the opening is just wide enough to accommodate a laptop bag), and the curvature of the fuselage makes leaving your seat without bumping your head quite a challenge... Oh, and the window was behind the seat.   

An unexpected positive however was the excellent crew, very enthusiastic   
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LH506
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:34 am

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 19):
As for KLM on long haul...

It is the worst seat out there   Weren't they going to get a new seat at some point in time??
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SKAirbus
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:19 am

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 31):
I believe you are correct. TG and MH also have a Y class zone on the upper deck. MH's zone accommodates 70 passengers. Don't some of SQ's original A380s still feature a small Y cabin upstairs too ?

I hope British Airways do the honourable thing and follow MH's example, not allowing families with young children to sit on the upper deck, providing peace and quiet to adult/single travellers.

Great philosophy to sit families downstairs.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
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nimool
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:13 am

Any idea when will they get the delivery of their 787?
i know that the A380 is due to be on service in April 2013.
Iran Air, we take you there, we take you back!
 
scrappy27
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:03 am

Quoting nimool (Reply 41):
Any idea when will they get the delivery of their 787?
i know that the A380 is due to be on service in April 2013.

1st 787 due to be delivered in May 2013
1st A380 due in July 2013
next additional 777-300 due September 2013
 
jumpjets
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:16 pm

Quoting Atlflyer (Reply 34):
Isn't boarding going to be a mess with so many different classes scattered on the upper and lower deck?

I wondered that myself - then I thought that by mixing it up on both levels it gives a more even balance [or less uneven] balance in terms of loading each level. There is less pressure on the lower level boarding gates without especially increasing the upper level boarding.

Also by splitting the classes between two levels, especially for J, it could improve the passenger flying experience as you will be flying in a smaller, more 'exclusive' cabin than if all 97 J seats were in one cabin together.
 
frigatebird
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting Atlflyer (Reply 34):
Isn't boarding going to be a mess with so many different classes scattered on the upper and lower deck?

Not if the boarding pass clearly states UPPER DECK and LOWER DECK, and of course, upper and lower decks are clearly indicated on the boarding ramp. Most pax will take notice (No, not everyone..    )
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LY777
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:10 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 22):

Thanks for the explanation.
I am not convinced by BA product though. I prefer by FAR the reverse herringbone seats.
And I wouldn't like reverse directions for seats.
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bwaflyer
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RE: BA B787 And A380 Seating

Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:41 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 33):
I personally prefer the all-forward facing configuration used by LX and a few others with alternating 1-2-1, 2-2-1 rows on A330/340s, which permits all except a few passengers to have direct aisle access and doesn't require as much seat pitch as the BA configuration due to the way your feet slot into the space next to the offset seat in front.

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