rheinwaldner
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:35 pm

According to this article, Pegasus could have ordered 100 A320NEO's:
http://www.tasimasektoru.com/pegasus...7-milyar-dolarlik-ucak-aliyor.html

As I don't understand the Turkish language beyond google-translations, I'd ask somebody who is able to read the article properly to bring certainty.
 
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Dalavia
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:52 pm

If you run the text of the article through Google Translate, this is what you get:

Pegasus Airlines for 90 Airbus A320neo will get the agreement on December 18 at 15:00 Transportation, Communication and Navigation signing ceremony attended by Minister Binali Yildirim. 70 final, 20 a total of 90 aircraft converted into an option agreement that will make the exact order, Pegasus, all Boeing 737 fleet consists of changing the joint session.
 
List purchase price, including 96.7 million dollars opsiyonyar for A320neo'lar Pegasus Airlines Airbus will pay a total of 8 billion 703 million dollars. New member of the family of Airbus A320 NEO model, will begin to be delivered from 2016.
 
Pegasus Airlines from Sabiha Gokcen Airport is near the newly built Airbus head office at a ceremony held at the level of Vice President will attend.
 
northstar80
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:19 pm

Yes, it is not firm yet, but looks like the order will be signed on the 18th. 70 firm + 20 options for A320 NEOs.

Funny thing is; they only have 737s and the owner was very enthusiastic about the 737 -> even their call center phone number is 250 0 737 !!!
 
LifelinerOne
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:20 pm

I know Pegasus did a RFP with both Airbus and Boeing back in July for an order for about 40 to 50 new planes, excluding options.

Looking at it, Airbus is the winner with an order for 70 A320NEO's, with an option for 20 planes.

Pegasus is currently operating around 40 planes, mainly B737's, with still a a dozen B737-800s to be delivered. I expected Pegasus to remain loyal to Boeing, so this can be seen as a coup for Airbus.

Cheers!   
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
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EPA001
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:23 pm

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 3):
Looking at it, Airbus is the winner with an order for 70 A320NEO's, with an option for 20 planes.

Indeed it looks like this. But I will wait for an official confirmation before I count this one as final.

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 3):
I expected Pegasus to remain loyal to Boeing, so this can be seen as a coup for Airbus.

If confirmed, then yes, it would be a nice coup for Airbus.  

[Edited 2012-12-12 07:02:37]
 
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sturmovik
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 4):
If confirmed, then yes, it would be a nice coup for Airbus.

Indeed.

On a slightly related note, what's the O&D tally so far this year between A & B? IIRC, this wouldn't put much of a dent in B's lead, right?
'What's it doing now?'
 
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EPA001
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:01 pm

Quoting sturmovik (Reply 5):
IIRC, this wouldn't put much of a dent in B's lead, right?

No, it won't. Boeing has a year now which is more or less comparable with the year Airbus had in 2011. The NEO was the big driver of sales for Airbus then, and the MAX is the big driver for the sales success Boeing has this year. Over time it will probably (more or less) even out in the market which is owned by Airbus and Boeing together.
 
chiad
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 6):
Boeing has a year now which is more or less comparable with the year Airbus had in 2011

If confirmed the NEO order-book will stand at 1649 frames!
The MAX order-book is at the moment 969.
I expect the NEO order-book might "always" be about 500-800 frames larger than the MAX because of the difference in EIS (about 18 months).

If this changes for the benefit of either Airbus or Boeing I would call it a "lead" by that model.
Otherwise they are pretty even IMO.
 
flood
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:41 pm

Nice find, rheinwaldner. Turkey's airporthaber has also picked up on it:
http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...ri/pegasus-imzalari-mi-atacak.html

Guess we'll learn more on the 18th.

edit to add: Above article also would also suggest they'd be taking VX's slots (google translation):
"The new generation A320neo less carbon emissions and fuel economy and the environment, which aims to take delivery of orders as of 2015, is aimed at Pegasus."

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 6):
Boeing has a year now which is more or less comparable with the year Airbus had in 2011.

In terms of percentages and excluding the possible Pegasus order, they're darn near identical. Boeing is currently at 64%, the same percentage Airbus held in 2011  

[Edited 2012-12-12 07:53:07]
 
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Focker
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting flood (Reply 8):
In terms of percentages and excluding the possible Pegasus order, they're darn near identical. Boeing is currently at 64%, the same percentage Airbus held in 2011

Does that include the unidentified order for 100, of which it seems the client is AirAsia?
 
flood
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:57 pm

Quoting Focker (Reply 9):
Does that include the unidentified order for 100, of which it seems the client is AirAsia?

It does. I just used their latest net figures.
 
flood
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:29 am

Quoting Focker (Reply 9):
AirAsia

Speaking of which...

"AirAsia Bhd. (AIRA), the region’s biggest discount airline, plans to unveil an order for 100 Airbus A320 jets today as the carrier expands operations to fend off rising competition, two people familiar with the contract said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...ing-order-for-100-airbus-jets.html
 
chiad
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:29 am

Quoting flood (Reply 11):
"AirAsia Bhd. (AIRA), the region’s biggest discount airline, plans to unveil an order for 100 Airbus A320 jets today

Does that mean that it's not AirAsia who's included as unidentified in Novembers spreadsheet?
 
SEA
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:51 am

Quoting Chiad (Reply 12):
Does that mean that it's not AirAsia who's included as unidentified in Novembers spreadsheet?

No, that article is dated December 13th. So the order is unidentified until tomorrow. In next month's O&D spreadsheet, it will show the orders for AirAsia.
 
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Focker
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:11 am

Quoting Chiad (Reply 12):
Does that mean that it's not AirAsia who's included as unidentified in Novembers spreadsheet?

I guess we'll see this order confirmed today, revealing that AirAsia was the unidentified customer of November.
 
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Focker
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:15 am

From the quoted article:

The order was signed last month and announced by Airbus as an undisclosed customer, the people said.
 
LLA001
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:04 am

Do you know if Pegasus has any long haul plans? If I remember correctly at some point they were thinking about US routes but I am not sure.

It would be lovely if they add a few wide bodies to the order ( I know a big no no for LCC's but still it will be good to see some big aircraft at SAW )
 
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TK787
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:53 am

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 16):

I bet in the next decade, TK will be challenged on its trunk long haul routes, like JFK, by a Turkish based company.
It would be awesome if this was Pegasus, I know even though it doesn't match its business plan (though look at AirBerlin), or it could be a revamped Atlasjet....
And wouldn't it be awesome if this was out of SAW. It could work, IST-JFK is probably around 60% O&D, but yet Pegasus have enough of a hub to accommodate transfers.
Maybe 100 NEOs, could be a sweet negotiating platform for a handful of 332/333s???
 
LLA001
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:09 pm

You just read my mind, I was hoping for a 332  

TK 's US routes are getting a bit pricey so I am sure an alternative will work, especially from SAW
 
flood
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:46 am

Announcement of order is expected today, which will be streamed live at:
http://flypgslive.com/index-eng.php

They currently have a test stream up with the Airbus logo on stage.

Seattle Times suggests 75 + 25, mix of A320/321 (neo).
 
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solnabo
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:43 am

Closer and closer to order 100 A320 family:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...rkey-pegasus-idUSLNE8BG00Q20121217

Great news   

[Edited 2012-12-18 02:46:34]
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Flying-Tiger
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:24 pm

Confirmed, its 58 A320 NEO and 17 A321NEO plus 25 options.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...rkey-pegasus-idUSL5E8NI6BS20121218
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
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scbriml
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:32 pm

Nice 'win' for Airbus. Am I right in thinking this is only the 2nd 737NG operator to select the A320neo (after AA)?

Other than Tiger, has any other A320 operator selected MAX?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
flood
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:40 pm

For anyone interested in tuning in, the press conference is about to begin:
http://flypgslive.com/index-eng.php
 
legoguy
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:43 pm

So where are the total orders standing at now for the A320 NEO series?

1654 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A320neo_orders) + whatever AA firms up.

When all the above is firmed, that must bring it close to 1800 orders for the NEO alone?
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sirtoby
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:48 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 22):
Other than Tiger, has any other A320 operator selected MAX?

Tiger? You mean Silkair, right?
As for 737NG operators switching to NEO, there is also Norwegian and Transaero.
 
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scbriml
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:50 pm

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 25):
Tiger? You mean Silkair, right?

Oops, indeed.   
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
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TK787
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:51 pm

Congrats to Pegasus and Airbus.
It is nice to point out that Pegasus outdid TK in terms of the largest onetime order.
I can see TK reversing this very shortly. TK is in love with numbers  
 
sirtoby
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:54 pm

Quoting legoguy (Reply 24):
When all the above is firmed, that must bring it close to 1800 orders for the NEO alone?

It could be soon 2000+ orders and commitments...

http://aeroturbopower.blogspot.de/20...12/airbus-year-end-order-buzz.html
 
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TK787
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:58 pm

Can someone summarise the capacities of 320 and 321NEO? Thank you.
 
sirtoby
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:00 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 29):
Can someone summarise the capacities of 320 and 321NEO? Thank you.

A320: max pax capacity: 180
A321: max pax capacity: 220

Airbus is just considering extra exit doors for the A321 to raise capacity to 235.
 
legoguy
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:03 pm

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 28):

Quoting legoguy (Reply 24):
When all the above is firmed, that must bring it close to 1800 orders for the NEO alone?

It could be soon 2000+ orders and commitments...

http://aeroturbopower.blogspot.de/20...12/airbus-year-end-order-buzz.html

Huge amount!

It breaks down currently as:

1654 Firm Orders
155 Commitments (AA + MEA, etc)
444 options

Totalling 2253 Orders, options and commitments.
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
chiad
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:41 pm

Our dear flood has summarized "everything" there is to know about the NEO and Max orders here:
http://www.pdxlight.com/neomax.htm

Thanks!!

I find it surprising that the last 3 orders (185 frames) has gone to the NEO, resulting in almost 2 of 3 planes on firm order in this battle being NEO's.
IMO this is starting to look like some domination even though the MAX is to EIS some 18 months later.
Do anyone know about some upcoming orders that might change the balance either way?
 
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TK787
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:12 pm

Quoting Chiad (Reply 32):
Do anyone know about some upcoming orders that might change the balance either way?

TK to order 100 narrow bodies soon. It could be more, it could be a split as.
 
flood
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:49 pm

Quoting Chiad (Reply 32):
Do anyone know about some upcoming orders that might change the balance either way?

The next sizable one seems to be the Lion Air order which currently seems to be in Airbus' favor.

Thanks for the plug, btw... time flies, the chart has grown a little since the early NEO days of pasting a tiny table here.

[Edited 2012-12-18 06:54:19]
 
gokmengs
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:08 pm

Great news for both Pegasus and Airbus! Bold move switching from all 737 to 320 family.
Can mods please change the title of this thread...
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KarelXWB
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:12 pm

Looking good:

http://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262689_574090232607265_1679522148_n.jpg
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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EPA001
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:43 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 36):
Looking good:

It sure does.

So now after the confirmation congrats are in place to all involved.  
 
LAXintl
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:55 pm

Congrats to Airbus and Pegasus   

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 16):
Do you know if Pegasus has any long haul plans? If I remember correctly at some point they were thinking about US routes but I am not sure.

The owner/CEO has talked about his personal dreams to connect his family home town of Adana with the world, however only last week there was a news story that he clearly stated there was no place for longhaul in the Pegasus LCC business model. I know Boeing has certainly made 787 presentations to Pegasus in the past.


Might also be interesting to know that Atlasjet got very close to acquiring A340s. They even signed a LOI with ILFC for a pair of ex Virgin Atlantic aircraft. Their plans were to offer both New York and Bangkok service. Unfortunately their ownership changed just at the juncture that this was happening which changed the companies strategy away from scheduled service back into more charter and ACMI flying which killed the deal.
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Yakamoz
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:58 pm

Does I'm right, that all ordered aircraft since yesterday (so without this 100 Neo's) are delivered, or are there not delivered airplanes?
 
JoeCanuck
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:57 pm

Turkey seems to fly under the radar as an airline power, but I suspect this will change over the next few years. I believe it won't be to long before they provide a real challenge to the Gulf carriers.
What the...?
 
kaitak
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:38 pm

Quoting Chiad (Reply 7):
If confirmed the NEO order-book will stand at 1649 frames!
Quoting legoguy (Reply 31):
1654 Firm Orders155 Commitments (AA + MEA, etc)444 options

This is great news for Airbuss, but it must be quite a concern to those airlines currently studying both types. If you assume a production rate of about 30 a month (which it will probably take some time to reach, being a new aircraft), that's about four and a half year's production. Assuming production begins on time and the first delivery takes place in 2015 as planned, then an airline ordering now would not get its own aircraft (i.e. ordered directly) much before 2020.

Looking at the current production list, lessors account for around 360 of the orders placed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A320neo_orders

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 40):
Turkey seems to fly under the radar as an airline power, but I suspect this will change over the next few years. I believe it won't be to long before they provide a real challenge to the Gulf carriers.

I agree totally - up to the point that I think TK does, in many markets. TK recently announced that it serves more countries than any other airline and it has ambitious growth plans for next year, not to mention a plan to order 100 narrowbody types next year. (I realise you're talking about the country, whereas I'm talking about TK!). One of the biggest challenges facing Turkish aviation, and by implication TK, is the lack of capacity at IST and the need to get the new airport opened NE of Istanbul by 2016 - a very tall order!

With the collapse of Syria, strife in Egypt and the isolation of Iran, Turkey's geopolitical importance is going up and up and that can only help Turkey economically, and indeed its airlines.
 
Hamlet69
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 41):
This is great news for Airbuss, but it must be quite a concern to those airlines currently studying both types. If you assume a production rate of about 30 a month (which it will probably take some time to reach, being a new aircraft), that's about four and a half year's production. Assuming production begins on time and the first delivery takes place in 2015 as planned, then an airline ordering now would not get its own aircraft (i.e. ordered directly) much before 2020.

Thankfully for the airlines, real-world production isn't 'stacked-up' like that. For instance, AirAsia only planned on taking @ 25 NEO's a year. I don't know if that has changed with last month's order, but even if it did, my hunch would be that figure only increased by 2-4 more frames a year. Otherwise, you're talking about a HUGE capital expenditure in a very short time frame, and that would be a burden on even the most profitable of company's.

In addition, there is often also a certain amount of 'jockeying for position.' Case in point: this very order. Airbus was able to win the Pegasus deal by offering the airline Virgin America's 2015/16 slots.

Regards,

Hamlet69
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Stitch
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 42):
In addition, there is often also a certain amount of 'jockeying for position.' Case in point: this very order. Airbus was able to win the Pegasus deal by offering the airline Virgin America's 2015/16 slots.

I wonder if Airbus will reconsider their decision not to increase A320 production to 44 per month...
 
LifelinerOne
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 36):
Looking good:

I suggest a new livery....

Cheers!   
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
BlueShamu330s
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:51 pm

I wonder if Airbus should have considered buying Woodford for a supplemental line...

Rgds
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Hamlet69
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Pegasus Orders A320NEO and A321NEO

Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:44 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 43):
I wonder if Airbus will reconsider their decision not to increase A320 production to 44 per month...

I'm sure they're still studying it for the future. But the final decision will likely have to do with: a) their confidence in the supply chain being able to support it. And: b) what Boeing (and their respective supply chain) does as well.

As it stands, both Boeing and Airbus will be producing at 42/month very soon, which to my knowledge is unprecedented. Both in the number produced, as well as the fact they'll be producing at equal rates. Which is why we're seeing near-perfect parity in terms of orders.

Regards,

Hamlet69
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Tupolev160
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RE: Pegasus Orders A320NEO And A321NEO

Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:25 pm

Yes, it did. Good point about Pegasus developing in the similar pattern as Air Berlin. I am glad they've chosen Airbus but what, in your opinion, made them go for an entirely different fleet than the one they already have? Are they unhappy about their Boeing performances or...?
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scbriml
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RE: Pegasus Orders A320NEO And A321NEO

Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:47 pm

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 47):
I am glad they've chosen Airbus but what, in your opinion, made them go for an entirely different fleet than the one they already have? Are they unhappy about their Boeing performances or...?

In this specific case, availability seems to have been a significant factor. It's been suggested that Airbus was able to offer earlier slots thanks to the deferral of early neo deliveries by VX.

Despite what both OEMs claim with regard to their product vs the other, overall buying patterns suggest there's very little between them. So it looks as though earlier availability for neos swung it sufficiently for Pegasus to jump to Airbus.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
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neutrino
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RE: Pegasus Orders A320NEO And A321NEO

Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:44 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 46):
As it stands, both Boeing and Airbus will be producing at 42/month very soon, which to my knowledge is unprecedented. Both in the number produced, as well as the fact they'll be producing at equal rates.

From what I understand, since B's annual production is at monthly times twelve and A's at monthly times eleven, having equal monthly rates would translate into B outputting more anually.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis