JoePatroni707
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Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:44 pm

From my understanding is that the A319s are due in July. What is AA's plans for these aircrafts? Where will they be based first and where will they fly them. IIRC, the A321s will debut on transcons next fall. Have they decided which will be the first crew bases?
 
doulasc
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:53 pm

The A321s will replace the 767-223 ERs on the JFK-LAX but I hear they will only hold 100 passengers in a 3 class configuration.Thats not many for a transcon route.I would guess AA will have more frequency.
 
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American 767
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:58 pm

Since the A321s will be flying transcons, at least part of the A321 fleet, some crews will be based in either JFK or LAX. LAX still sees a few MD-80 flights a day, I think 8 at the most if not less so if the first few A319s or A321s not configured in 3 Class for transcons are assigned on current MD-80 routes out of LAX it would make sense to base some Airbus crews in LAX.

Of course more routes will follow in the long run as more A319s and A321s are phased in. I'm talking about the near term future, though I'm not %100 positive about what I have written above.

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PHX787
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting american 767 (Reply 2):
Since the A321s will be flying transcons, at least part of the A321 fleet, some crews will be based in either JFK or LAX. LAX still sees a few MD-80 flights a day, I think 8 at the most if not less so if the first few A319s or A321s not configured in 3 Class for transcons are assigned on current MD-80 routes out of LAX it would make sense to base some Airbus crews in LAX.

Are these going to have sleeper seats as well? Are they going to operate other JFK-West coast routes (such as to PHX?)
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justplanenutz
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:55 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Are these going to have sleeper seats as well? Are they going to operate other JFK-West coast routes (such as to PHX?)

Yes, they will have lie flat suites in F and lie flat seats in J:

http://www.americanairlines.jp/i18n/urls/newplanes.jsp

Here is a thought: the 321trancons are configured for 102 pax. Could the 321neo in the same configuration do TATL out of JFK? If so, that could be an interesting plane if the US merger happens. JFK could be focused on high-yield, 3-class O&D with the 77W, 789 and 321neo/transcon. PHL would focus on lower-yield connecting traffic with the refurbished high-density 772 and 763, and the former US 333/332.
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:00 pm

When will the orders be firmed is alo a question
 
Jack
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:13 pm

So these are the leased aircraft, but I thought this was all on hold together with the A321 NEO order due to Ch11?

Who are they leased from and are the qty of A319/A321 known?
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:15 pm

Is the A321neo seat configuration already known?
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Mcoov
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:31 pm

AA only ordered 11 A319s. What on earth do they plan to do with them?
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:32 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Are they going to operate other JFK-West coast routes (such as to PHX?)

I talked about LAX in my previous reply. The other one I'm thinking of is JFK-SFO. As far as JFK-West Coast routes are concerned, only JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO will see the 3-class config A321.

JFK-PHX might see the A321, like it has seen the 757, but not in a 3-class config.

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 4):
Could the 321neo in the same configuration do TATL out of JFK?

If the airplane is 180 min ETOPS qualified, yes. If may not have as much range as the 757 does, but it could fly short TATL routes such as JFK-DUB or BOS-DUB.
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JoePatroni707
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:33 pm

IIRC the transcon 321s will be 10F 20J 36MCE and 36Y
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:34 pm

I am pretty sure that DFW-ABQ will probably be one of the last MD-80 routes, however, what is the possibility that AA will use the A321 on the route after the MD-80s are retired? Or will AA likely shift the route to 738s?

I am pretty sure that DL's ABQ-ATL route is a prime candidate for 739ERs, replacing the spring/summer 757 service. However, AA doesn't fly any aircraft larger than MD-80s into ABQ, so I wonder if ABQ-DFW will get any A321s.

[Edited 2012-12-15 14:36:46]
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:39 pm

Quoting Mcoov (Reply 8):
AA only ordered 11 A319s. What on earth do they plan to do with them?

The A319s are probably for routes where a 738 would be payload-restricted.
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:12 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 10):
IIRC the transcon 321s will be 10F 20J 36MCE and 36Y

According to seatguru the current configuration on the 762 is 10F 30J 128Y.

So they will not only reduce the number of Y seats, but also 10J seats on every flight. Taking a random date, June 24, they operate 10 LAX-JFK flights, which will mean a reduction of 100J seats each way! Either AA currently flies with many empty J seats on their 762s, or they will add more frequency once they retire the 762.
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 13):
Either AA currently flies with many empty J seats on their 762s, or they will add more frequency once they retire the 762.

Or maybe they will offer fewer upgrades to J!
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:05 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 14):

Or maybe they will offer fewer upgrades to J!

Yeah, it looks like it.

Overall it is quite a reduction of daily seats, especially Y seats. I am sure that B6 is thrilled about it.
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 11):

I can almost guarantee you that DFW-ABQ will not get the a321s. They seem like they will be specifically for the JFK transcons. You will probably see the route shifted to the 738s.
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting doulasc (Reply 1):
Thats not many for a transcon route.I would guess AA will have more frequency.

AA already has a lot of frequency.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 15):
Overall it is quite a reduction of daily seats, especially Y seats. I am sure that B6 is thrilled about it

Yup, that is it. AA will be dumping their cheapest pax onto B6 or VX or possibly even DL.
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:32 am

Quoting Mcoov (Reply 8):
AA only ordered 11 A319s. What on earth do they plan to do with them?

There are 130 A319s being ordered. They will replace the MD-80s and the aging 738s.

Quoting Jack (Reply 6):
So these are the leased aircraft, but I thought this was all on hold together with the A321 NEO order due to Ch11?

Who are they leased from and are the qty of A319/A321 known?

None of this is on hold. Deliveries are proceeding on schedule, beginning next year. The A320neo aircraft aren't scheduled to arrive until 2017, but that's the way it's always been.
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Mcoov
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:57 am

Quoting AA94 (Reply 18):
There are 130 A319s being ordered.
There are 130 of the Airbus A320 series ordered, of which only 11 are A319s. The other 119 are A321s, of which some will be dedicated to the NYC - West Coast routes.

I suppose the other A319s are bundled in the A320NEO series order, but then why include regular A319s?
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:13 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Are these going to have sleeper seats as well? Are they going to operate other JFK-West coast routes (such as to PHX?)

Why would they operate a plane with sleeper seats to PHX?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Quoting Mcoov (Reply 19):
I suppose the other A319s are bundled in the A320NEO series order, but then why include regular A319s?

They do need the A319s - they can fly them from DFW and MIA to a wide number of places that don't need a whole 738....

11 is an odd number, I agree.

NS
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:18 am

Quoting Mcoov (Reply 8):
AA only ordered 11 A319s.
Quoting AA94 (Reply 18):
There are 130 A319s being ordered.
Quoting Mcoov (Reply 19):
There are 130 of the Airbus A320 series ordered, of which only 11 are A319s. The other 119 are A321s, of which some will be dedicated to the NYC - West Coast routes.

The order has been increased by 1 to 131. Current breakdown is 12x A319, 119x A321. Source atdb.org

A319 MSN's are: 5678, 5698, 5704, 5715, 5736, 5745, 5755, 5770, 5775, 5780, 5790, 5800. Delivery July-Oct 2013.

Initial A321 delivery Nov 2013, MSN 5838. No other MSN assigned.
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:21 am

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 16):

I can almost guarantee you that DFW-ABQ will not get the a321s. They seem like they will be specifically for the JFK transcons. You will probably see the route shifted to the 738s.

AA has 100+ 321s on order. JFK-LAX/SFO would need ~15 aircraft.

Look at where AA sends 757s. Thats a good bet for the bulk of the 321 fleet.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 20):

They do need the A319s - they can fly them from DFW and MIA to a wide number of places that don't need a whole 738....

maybe they will do like UA/CO can with the 737. Pick a model closer to it being built?
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:46 am

Well in this case, they ordered 130 A321s initially... but 11 A319s have their MSNs allocated. So perhaps you're quite right.

That being said, I'd think they need A321s primarily.... but to be honest I'd think they'd want A321neos where they'll get the biggest benefit from them. So maybe this tranche will be the A321s they absolutely need and mostly A319s.

We'll see what happens when they get delivered. They may end up with a shorthaul fleet of A321s and a longhaul fleet of A321neos in the future. I can almost guarantee that the JFK A321s will be reconfigured for regular duty and replaced with a subfleet of A321neos when they arrive.

I rambled a lot in this post.

NS
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:51 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 23):

We'll see what happens when they get delivered. They may end up with a shorthaul fleet of A321s and a longhaul fleet of A321neos in the future. I can almost guarantee that the JFK A321s will be reconfigured for regular duty and replaced with a subfleet of A321neos when they arrive.

agreed.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 23):
That being said, I'd think they need A321s primarily.... but to be honest I'd think they'd want A321neos where they'll get the biggest benefit from them. So maybe this tranche will be the A321s they absolutely need and mostly A319s.

I think they will need more 321s for sure, but i can't see them sticking with 12 319s.
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:01 am

I think seeing as ORD is the hub most in need of right-sizing in terms of aircraft gauge, I think the A319 would be perfect there.
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:28 pm

What engines have AA gone for on the A320 family - CFM or IAE?
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JoePatroni707
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:30 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 26):
What engines have AA gone for on the A320 family - CFM or IAE

IIRC the 319's will have CFM, the 321's IAE
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:18 pm

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 4):
JFK could be focused on high-yield, 3-class O&D with the 77W, 789 and 321neo/transcon. PHL would focus on lower-yield connecting traffic with the refurbished high-density 772 and 763, and the former US 333/332.

I agree 100%, I have touting this same scenario for months, there will be room for JFK & PHL, PHL will become the main transit airport for connections, and JFK will be O/D centered, except for those cities that are offered only from JFK and not PHL.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 11):
I am pretty sure that DFW-ABQ will probably be one of the last MD-80 routes
Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 16):
I can almost guarantee you that DFW-ABQ will not get the a321s. They seem like they will be specifically for the JFK transcons. You will probably see the route shifted to the 738s.

I think you can insert PDX, FAT, TUS and more west coast cities to the ABQ scenario, M80's will ply some skies until they are retired, but the last flight will very likely operate to or from DFW.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 20):
They do need the A319s - they can fly them from DFW and MIA to a wide number of places that don't need a whole 738....

MIA-PDX?

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 25):
I think seeing as ORD is the hub most in need of right-sizing in terms of aircraft gauge, I think the A319 would be perfect there.

ORD-PDX restart?
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:20 pm

I still don't understand why AA ordered all these A319/321 when they have a 200+ fleet and growing of 738s. 739ERs could have done the A321 job and even replaced 757s down the line? I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads though, just haven't read them.
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:33 pm

I believe they will use the A319 the same way the 737-700 are used at Delta. They will use them from DFW and MIA to those hot and high destinations.
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:49 pm

Boeing didn't come through with the next 737 like Airbus did with the NEO.

Truth is, once AA and US merge, these airlines will all be too big to be all Boeing or all Airbus.

Look for mixed fleets going forward
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:54 pm

Quoting american 767 (Reply 9):
If the airplane is 180 min ETOPS qualified, yes. If may not have as much range as the 757 does, but it could fly short TATL routes such as JFK-DUB or BOS-DUB.

That stated range of the 321neo is 3,450nm, which as you say, rules out most TATL missions. So, the question is how much of a range bump would the low-density 102 pax configuration yield? It would take ~500nm to make the plane really useful for TATL.
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:19 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 23):
We'll see what happens when they get delivered. They may end up with a shorthaul fleet of A321s and a longhaul fleet of A321neos in the future. I can almost guarantee that the JFK A321s will be reconfigured for regular duty and replaced with a subfleet of A321neos when they arrive.

  . In addition to the subfleet for JFK-LAX/SFO transcons, look for the A321s to replace 75Ws that are doing transcons first (I believe), then as time goes along, you'll see them on traditional high demand routes that are flown with 75s.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 25):
I think seeing as ORD is the hub most in need of right-sizing in terms of aircraft gauge, I think the A319 would be perfect there.

  . This will be a good a/c for ORD where the CR7 is too small and the 738s too large to run multiple frequencies in certain markets where a mainline a/c is more appropriate due to demand.

Is the total of A319s order over 100 at this point? I can't see AA only buying/leasing 11. That doesn't make any sense.
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:40 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 28):
I think you can insert PDX, FAT, TUS and more west coast cities to the ABQ scenario, M80's will ply some skies until they are retired, but the last flight will very likely operate to or from DFW.

Yeah, it has always been the joke the last MD-80 will ferry from FAT to MHV. The "informed" rumor last summer was that FAT was going to get 738's by late summer / early fall as some training, etc. had either taken place or been scheduled. Well, here we are Dec.16, and it is MD-80 as far as we can see. Granted, I lOVE the 80, I i always choose to sit on the 2 seat side for more comfort.

Supposedly the logic that was prevailing last Spring/ summer was along the lines of eliminating DFW/ ORD MD 80 flight to either coasts ASAP as fuel was anywhere from 30 to 60 cents a gallon more than in the central part of the US at the time.
So, we thought that we would see the 738's in FAT by now. However, due to a lot of reasons, fuel has moderated quite a bit
in California ( I presume the Northeast as well,??) so maybe the urgency of keeping the MD 80 fleet closer to 2 hr flights from either ORD/ DFW is not as great.

There was a lot of speculation that the 319's would be based from ORD and mixed in for frequency to LGA and mainline returned on some routes that currently fill a CR7 and could use the capacity..primarly routes east of ORD to facilitate quick trips, and maximize fuel savings vs MD 80.

So, if anyone has an idea of when we will see the 738's at FAT please share with us!
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:16 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 33):
Is the total of A319s order over 100 at this point? I can't see AA only buying/leasing 11. That doesn't make any sense.

It likely will be when you factor in the A319NEOs.
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ripcordd
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:36 pm

I would have to say that the 319's will be at first based at ORD....doing ATL/EWR/PHL/MSP/DTW/ABQ/BNA/RDU/SLC/DEN/MCI/DCA all the right size for these cities.
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:33 pm

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 29):
I still don't understand why AA ordered all these A319/321 when they have a 200+ fleet and growing of 738s. 739ERs could have done the A321 job and even replaced 757s down the line?

AA stated that, upon ordering the A32x and more 738, that neither manufacturer could accommodate all their orders. Recall when the 130x A32x were ordered, AA also planned to order another 100x 738. This 738 order has now been firmed. Neither A nor B could (likely) have built 200+ narrowbodies in the timeframe AA wanted (ie, deliveries by 2017/2018) so orders with both were needed.

I agree with you though that an order for the 73G/739ER would have seemed more logical for AA given their large 738 fleet and their apparent fleet strategy of very few aircraft types. The M80 fleet needs replacing en masse very soon so it seems that fleet simplicity is taking a back seat to get these M80's out of the fleet in the next 6-7 years.

The next tranche (MAX and neo orders) have not been signed yet.
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 20):
Why would they operate a plane with sleeper seats to PHX?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Some of us actually want to sleep on our red-eyes to the east coast  
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BA744PHX
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):

Are these going to have sleeper seats as well? Are they going to operate other JFK-West coast routes (such as to PHX?)

Well first thing is AA doesn't fly JFK-PHX non stop. Only B6, DL, and US from JFK, and UA and US from EWR
 
gigneil
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:01 pm

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 29):
I still don't understand why AA ordered all these A319/321 when they have a 200+ fleet and growing of 738s. 739ERs could have done the A321 job and even replaced 757s down the line? I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads though, just haven't read them.

I will tell you.

Each manufacturer has a sweet spot. The 738 is Boeing's. The A319 and A321 are Airbus'.

They weren't going to order any new Boeings at all until Boeing came through last minute with an order they couldn't refuse.

The reality is they need more planes faster than either could deliver. Getting the best of breed in each size class makes sense.

NS
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:20 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 35):
t likely will be when you factor in the A319NEOs.

Likewise, one will say: "Why so flew A321NEOs?" Because a large fleet of A321s of the current generation (or OEO as we speak) will have already been phased in.

Now if AA and US merge, two things will happen:

1. AA will have A320s too, as well as additional A319s and A321s of the current generation. American will find itself with a huge fleet of A32X.

2. The A330 will be an oddball to the long haul fleet, and so will the A350. They have to decide what they will do with the A330s and whether or not they still want the A350. It reminds me when 25 years ago BA and BCal merged, the A320 which BCal had previously ordered was an oddball in BA's fleet for a while.

Gone will be the last Classic 737s, ex EA-757s which are now almost 30, and ex-PI 762s although the latter will not be gone that soon.

So think about it, some of you say it doesn't make any sense to order only 11 or 12 A319s, I agree, but if the merger does happen then additional A319s (ex-US) of the current generation will be added to the fleet as well.

US must leave Star and jump into One World ASAP.
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spiritair97
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:20 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 40):

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I do look forward to seeing what AA does with there birds. I aassume, like stated in previous posts, they will be used similarly to how DL uses the 73Gs.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:02 am

Sorry I joined the conversation late, but one the roles for the A319 will be into Latin America.

AA has done quite some analysis and ground work to use the model in the region including getting the option for most powerful CFM version possible for the A319.

There are some Latin markets that do not require the capacity of the 757, but are stuck using the model for its performance. I also suspect the small A319 will allow AA to open up new markets that could not be economically served prior.

On another note, I find it interesting AA opted to go with the CFM56 for the A319 and V2500 for the A321.
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HPRamper
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:18 am

Quoting american 767 (Reply 41):
US must leave Star and jump into One World ASAP.

That should happen regardless of anything involving AA.
 
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:36 am

When AA finally re-adds PVD the A319 is the perfect size for PVD-DFW... too long for 100 seats or less, and not quite large enough for a 738 when figuring 2x daily.
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:41 am

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 30):
I believe they will use the A319 the same way the 737-700 are used at Delta. They will use them from DFW and MIA to those hot and high destinations.

This makes sense and was my first thought, but since AA has a much larger Latin American network than DL, I would've expected them to order more A319s.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 43):
On another note, I find it interesting AA opted to go with the CFM56 for the A319 and V2500 for the A321.

Did the V2500-powered A319-133 not offer the performance AA needs?
 
spiritair97
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:25 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 45):
When AA finally re-adds PVD the A319 is the perfect size for PVD-DFW... too long for 100 seats or less, and not quite large enough for a 738 when figuring 2x daily.

I agree, it would be a near-perfect fit.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:36 am

Didn't AA order the 738MAX? I thought thats how Boeing unofficially unveiled it.
Also, shouldn't have AA gone all NEO for thier Airbus order?
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qf002
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RE: Future AA A319/321 Routes

Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:28 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 48):
Didn't AA order the 738MAX?

Yes, they ordered a ton of NGs to cover the next few years and a ton of MAXs for further down the track.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 48):
Also, shouldn't have AA gone all NEO for thier Airbus order?

Not if they wanted a meaningful number of planes this side of 2020.