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DolphinAir747
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Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:32 am

With the relentless expansion of EK, QR, and TK, is EY being surpassed? Is AUH too small in its current state? Is it also possible that EY doesn't want to enter what may be a speculative bubble to expand to every small city everywhere and is glad with the profitability of their current flights?

Also, while they haven't confirmed anything, will AA end their partnership with QR joining? AA doesn't have partnerships with VS, LH, SQ, NZ, NH, or any other large airline that I can think of that competes directly with a 1W member.

Not to start a circular thread, but does it seem inevitable that EY will eventually join Skyteam? By virtue of its sheer size, EK seems to be the only gorilla large enough to survive on its own in the long term.
 
Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:14 am

These are some numbers from a recent extensive study I have written looking at 2007 and 2012 that you may find interesting:

If you take EK, EY and QR together for the last five years, they have jointly grown capacity by 83.7% looking at weekly seats for example, EK has almost doubled its capacity at 99.1% with QR not far behind at 82.5% while EY has only grown it by 45.4%, so they are definitely growing slower and obviously from a lower starting point as well than EK and QR have. There are a lot of aircraft on order by EY though and more and more higher capacity widebodies going forward, so it remains to be seen if they will be able to start growing faster now.

TK has grown its capacity even faster than EK, 102.7% in the last five years.

You might find this of interest: http://www.ch-aviation.ch/blog/2012/...ers-racing-for-world-market-share/
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
n7190jr
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:08 am

I almost feel like the writing is on the wall with this, especially due to the new AF/KL partnership. I see Ethiad and its majority share companies (Air Berlin) moving to SkyTeam infavor of these partnerships. IMHO this is probably their best bet as they'll get lost in the mix in Star, and Oneworld will have Qatar.
The Only Way Up is Up: KEEP CLIMBING
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:56 am

If they find that growing at a more sustainable level is their best course to take, then good for them. Their investment strategy is certainly different, so their strategic goals seem to have a different alignment than the other 2 carriers.

In the end, EK and QR are pushing ahead and it seems to be paying off now, but whether or not that will be the same in 10 years is another matter.
 
jayeshrulz
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:37 am

I feel EY will be somewhat in UAE what LH is in Europe. They will invest in other carriers, help them expand, and form a join network. And yes they're profiting really well, but they're just a little conservative in their approach, and do not believe in rapid expansion.

A little off topic, I always found EY having higer fares from Asia to other parts of the world, and always end up on 9W and QR for reasonable fares. Why is this so?
Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:00 am

Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 4):
A little off topic, I always found EY having higer fares from Asia to other parts of the world, and always end up on 9W and QR for reasonable fares. Why is this so?

One of 2 things:

A/ Their ability to fill the seats they offer allows them to generate higher yields
B/ They are chasing a higher yield base overall with what they consider a better product offering (not saying it is, just that it might be what they are positioning the airline as)

In the end, its usually about supply and demand which will make airlines go in with a lower fare structure to generate higher LF's.
 
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EK413
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:00 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 5):

In other words EY is all about Quality & not Quantity...

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:25 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 6):
In other words EY is all about Quality & not Quantity..

Exactly  

Good way of summing that up.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:27 am

This A.Net obsession about alliance may be ignoring that EY may be looking at expansion through partnerships and investment rather than alliance membership.

There are a lot of new J/V's in the pipeline worldwide (DL/VS for example) Such deals can cross aliiance's borders and still generate revenue and market share for both partners
 
VCy
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:32 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 6):
In other words EY is all about Quality & not Quantity...

EK413

well said! i think its safe to say that EY has a better product than EK.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:09 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 3):
In the end, EK and QR are pushing ahead and it seems to be paying off now, but whether or not that will be the same in 10 years is another matter.

People have been saying "This can't continue!" for the last 25 years.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
offloaded
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:03 pm

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 8):
This A.Net obsession about alliance may be ignoring that EY may be looking at expansion through partnerships and investment rather than alliance membership.

Exactly. For example you will find the EY flight number on flights opd by TP out of LIS to LHR BRU MXP CMN GVA FRA etc
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
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Yakamoz
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:13 pm

Have EY any orders open?
 
CalebWilliams
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:50 pm

Caleb Williams MSP AUS STL AMS CPH LGW YYZ
 
Skyguy
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:01 pm

As far as expansion goes, speaking to someone within EY management, plans are to basically follow EK to the same markets that EK flies to. Not sure what the logic is as some of EK's destinations are esoteric and unlikely to have demand to fill two airlines capacities, let alone one airline.
"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
 
Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:57 pm

Quoting Yakamoz (Reply 12):
Have EY any orders open?

4 A320-200s
16 A321-200s
2 A330-200s
12 A350-1000s
10 A380-800s
7 B777-300ERs
plus the 41 B787-9s mentioned
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:18 pm

Unlike QR, EY is focussing on a profitable operation. EK was and is already very profitable so they don't have that problem.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
janbrubel
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:42 pm

It would be safe to assume that, when you look at delivery times for their outstanding orders and the timing for expansion of AUH, that they are opting not to expand beyond what the airport can handle at this time. I pass through AUH regularly flying BRU - Asia routes on EY and I don't think I am wrong to think AUH is rather maxed out right now. If you have a long layover and aren't inside an AUH lounge, you are already screwed big time at this point, add another few million passengers a year to that and you really got a situation (and airport) to avoid ...

Quoting EK413 (Reply 6):
In other words EY is all about Quality & not Quantity...

I have flown EY almost exclusively for the last 3 years, 50/50 business/eco and I have to say that their business is a truly great product, certainly among the best I have flown, beating EK and European carriers. Eco however is going down slowly but surely. Service, food, overall product, ..., it's easily notable where they are saving a buck.

Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 4):
A little off topic, I always found EY having higer fares from Asia to other parts of the world, and always end up on 9W and QR for reasonable fares. Why is this so?

Usually flying from BRU on Asia routes and regularly checking fares from CDG, AMS and LHR, I have to say that EY's fares are almost consistently amongst the lowest, from BRU most of the time actually the lowest.
 
nyc2tlv
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:06 pm

Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 4):
A little off topic, I always found EY having higer fares from Asia to other parts of the world, and always end up on 9W and QR for reasonable fares. Why is this so?
Quoting janbrubel (Reply 17):
Usually flying from BRU on Asia routes and regularly checking fares from CDG, AMS and LHR, I have to say that EY's fares are almost consistently amongst the lowest, from BRU most of the time actually the lowest.

So it could be that they prefer Euros over Rupees!
 
KaiTak747
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:39 am

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 15):
4 A320-200s
16 A321-200s
2 A330-200s
12 A350-1000s
10 A380-800s
7 B777-300ERs

Amazing combination they have on order! In my opinion EY is has not grown so much because they are not trying to compete for connecting traffic and instead focusing on O&D. This makes more sense as realistically they have very little chance against EK for connecting traffic given their huge number of aircraft, destinations, frequencies...etc.
 
ytz
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RE: Is EY Falling Behind?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:50 am

EY only exists because of the UAE's esoteric governance structure. The airline exists to give the Sheikh of Abu Dhabi leverage over the Sheikh of Dubai.

If ever they get their stuff together on governance of the UAE, you'll see EK and EY merge and the rest of the emirates served by high speed rail from DWC.

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