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Alsatian
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How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:05 pm

Hello,

Alitalia has decided to cancel the Turin - Amsterdam route from january 8th. Current schedule :

AZ118 / KL3408 TRN0645 – 0840AMS E75 123-567
AZ122 / KL3410 TRN1720 – 1915AMS E75 --345-7

AZ119 / KL3409 AMS0945 – 1130TRN E75 123-567
AZ123 / KL3411 AMS2025 – 2210TRN E75 --345-7

AZ previously planned even to operate 12 weekly flights starting next summer.

AMS provides direct services to Rome, Milan, Venice, Bologne, Naples, Florence, Pisa or Verona. Considering that Turin is the 4th largest Italian city located in a rich and industrial area I wonder how a skyteam link to Schiphol cannot be succesful. To close from MXP ? Not enough frequencies to cover efficiently the hub ?

Any thoughts ?
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eta unknown
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:53 pm

TRN is suffering a lot more than other Italian cities with the economic crisis. The provinical Govt. may be disbanded and FIAT's TRN operations are now much smaller. Therefore, low demand is probably the reason for the above flight to be terminated (however, CDG remains).
 
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airbuseric
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:46 am

I took that flight a few times and it was never full! TRN is a deserted airport most of the time when I was there btw.

I flew also Cityjet to TRN last month on the RJ-85: loadfactor 30%
I flew an Air France A318 TRN-CDG last month: loadfactor 7% (6 passengers)

TRN is suffering a lot... for sure!
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AeroWesty
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:51 am

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised by this, as KLM's Schiphol hub has more robust schedule to DTW than AF's CDG hub, connecting the Fiat HQ with their American subsidiary, Chrysler. Or perhaps that market isn't as heavily-traveled on commercial aircraft as I would expect it to be?
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WAC
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:11 am

Skyteam lost a lot of contract in the provinces outside Milan and Piemonte area after AZ de-hubbed MXP and even more when AF and KL withdrew from MXP. Skyteam's fortress is LIN and businesses in Milan while BA and LH/LX have dominated the lucrative business and EU buinesses from Torino, Novara, Varese and Como areas and to some extent EZY.
 
flyingfool
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:39 am

TRN has always been a difficult destination from AMS.
I remember when I'm started working for KLM in 1999, KL operated 3x daily with the F70 to TRN and the flights where always low in loadfactor with an average of 25 to 30 passengers.
So for me it's not surprising that TRN is dropped again.

Mike
 
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airportugal310
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:02 am

I once flew a Meridiana A319 (I think it was an A319, at least) FLR-TRN-AMS

This was circa 2007(?). Does that route still exist?
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Alsatian
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:35 am

Thank you for the replies.

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 2):
I flew an Air France A318 TRN-CDG last month: loadfactor 7% (6 passengers)
Quoting flyingfool (Reply 5):
KL operated 3x daily with the F70 to TRN and the flights where always low in loadfactor with an average of 25 to 30 passengers.

I didn' t imagine so poor loads for such a large city.

[Edited 2012-12-19 02:36:19]
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MH017
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:44 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 6):
I once flew a Meridiana A319 (I think it was an A319, at least) FLR-TRN-AMS

This was circa 2007(?). Does that route still exist?

Meridiana does not operate into/from AMS anymore; in fact no direct flights to/from FLR anymore...
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airportugal310
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:56 am

Quoting MH017 (Reply 8):
Meridiana does not operate into/from AMS anymore; in fact no direct flights to/from FLR anymore...

Thanks MH...I figured the landscape had changed since then, but didn't know it had gotten to that point.

Frankly, all I remember was getting on the plane in Firenze (still hammered from the night before)...and getting off in AMS. I remember nothing of the Turino stopover. In fact, to this day, I don't ever recall being that inebriated. I hope to never get to that point again....oye
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konrad
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:28 am

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 1):
TRN is suffering a lot more than other Italian cities with the economic crisis. The provinical Govt. may be disbanded and FIAT's TRN operations are now much smaller. Therefore, low demand is probably the reason for the above flight to be terminated (however, CDG remains).

LOT terminated their KTW TRN KTW service as well. There is a Fiat factory some 60 km away from KTW which is doing badly with some massive layoffs announced.
 
factsonly
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:07 pm

Quoting MH017 (Reply 8):
I once flew a Meridiana A319 (I think it was an A319, at least) FLR-TRN-AMS

This was circa 2007(?). Does that route still exist?

Meridiana does not operate into/from AMS anymore; in fact no direct flights to/from FLR anymore...

This is incorrect.

Alitalia has repleced MERIDIANA on the FLR-AMS-FLR route and operates the route 2x/day in Summer and at a slightly lower frequency in Winter:

WINTER 2012/2013:

- dep. 06:45 FLR - arr. 09:00 AMS AZ 0114 Non-Stop A319 daily A
- dep. 06:45 FLR - arr. 09:00 AMS KL 3412 Non-Stop A319 daily - codeshare
- dep. 17:15 FLR - arr.19:30 AMS AZ 0116 Non-Stop Mon, Fri, Sun
- dep. 17:15 FLR -arr. 19:30 AMS KL 3414 Non-Stop Mon, Fri, Sun - codeshare

- dep. 09:55 AMS - arr. 11:55 FLR AZ 0115 Non-Stop A319 daily
- dep. 09:55 AMS - arr. 11:55 FLR KL 3413 Non-Stop A319 daily - codeshare
- dep. 20:40 AMS - arr. 22:35 FLR AZ 0117 Non-Stop A319 Mon, Fri, Sun
- dep. 20:40 AMS - arr. 22:35 FLR KL 3415 Non-Stop A319 Mon, Fri, Sun - codeshare

In addition KLM codeshared with MERIDIANA for many years, but swapped to AZ when AZ entered the AF/KL/AZ joint venture. As soon as AZ commenced operations MERIDIANA withdrew from the route.
 
flyingfool
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:44 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 11):
Alitalia has repleced MERIDIANA on the FLR-AMS-FLR route and operates the route 2x/day in Summer and at a slightly lower frequency in Winter:

Correct, I'm sure some airline is operating FLR-AMS currently as yesterday we had some passengers which could not make their connection on the MH flight from AMS to KUL because the FLR flight was delayed by around 3 hours, arriving at the departure time of MH017...
 
MOW
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:01 am

AZ has terminated its thrice weekly TRN-SVO service in SEP. I guess they were counting on FIAT business development in Russia when they inaugurated the route some 3 years ago. Unfortunately, FIAT plans to start local production never materialized. It is sad that AZ could not keep the route at least seasonal - lots of Russians go to Europe to ski in winters.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:17 am

TRN seems to have really been hit hard judging by all the comments on here.

Sad to see really, especially given that it hosted the 2006 Winter Olympics but hasn't really seen the benefits since. Thats not an unusual trend though to be honest.

Given that FIAT and Turin are so closely linked, the knock on effect will hit them hardest.
 
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Aquila3
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RE: How Come AZ / KL Drop TRN - AMS?

Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:55 am

With the completion of the Malpensa Highway and its connection to the A4 Milan -Turin, it makes more sense to get to MXP. East neighborhoods of Turin get there in something like 1 hour, probably faster of Sud of Milan
While under served by AZ and the Sky (better so, in my opinion), there you still get direct flights to many world capitals and main cities from their local operators. Without the nightmare of connecting in FCO or CDG.
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