User avatar
KarelXWB
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 19948
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:45 pm

FedEx buys another four 767 freighters:

Quote:
SEATTLE, Dec. 19, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] and FedEx Express, a wholly owned subsidiary of FedEx Corp., today announced an order for four 767 Freighters. The order is part of FedEx's initiative to modernize its fleet.

"These additional 767 orders will help accelerate our fleet modernization program as we replace our aging MD-10 freighter fleet," said James R. Parker, FedEx Express executive vice president, air operations. "These new 767s will provide significantly improved reliability and are substantially more fuel-efficient than the aircraft they will replace. They will be an excellent addition to the FedEx fleet."

The addition of the 767 Freighters will enable FedEx to replace its less efficient medium widebody cargo airplanes with freighters that provide fuel, maintenance and other cost savings. The freighters also increase efficiency by sharing spare parts, tooling and flight simulators with the Boeing 757s that are part of the FedEx air fleet.

"The 767 Freighter is an ideal fit for FedEx Express," said Brad McMullen, vice president of North America Sales for Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "It will provide a more efficient freighter for FedEx Express's fleet modernization efforts and help align its network with anticipated cargo volumes."

The 767 Freighter is based on the popular 767-300ER (extended range) passenger airplane. Able to carry approximately 58 tons (52.7 tonnes) of revenue cargo with intercontinental range, the 767-300 Freighter is ideal for developing new long-haul, regional or feeder markets.
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2537
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23081
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:48 pm

Considering how many A300-600RF, A310-200F, A310-300F and MD-10-10F freighters FX has, I fully expected them to add more so I see this as just the latest tranche with more to come.
 
FI642
Posts: 992
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:48 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:42 pm

Odd with their large Airbus fleet they didn't go with the A330F. Not surprising though, the 767 will become their new DC-10.
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11830
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:43 pm

I agree with Stitch that this is just the latest tranche in a line of orders.

What is the delivery time frame?

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
B6WNQX
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:45 pm

Could they pick up second hand 763ER and convert them to F?
 
MountainFlyer
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:19 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:57 pm

Quoting B6WNQX (Reply 4):
Could they pick up second hand 763ER and convert them to F?

Yes. Boeing has a Boeing Converted Freighter program for the 763, although I believe the only customer who has used it was NH for just a few frames.

Although, I am sure Boeing is offering dirt cheap deals for brand new 763 freighters, so it might be worth it for FX to go that route.
SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
 
wrenchon727
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:20 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:09 pm

With what FDX has learned with operating the 757 with so many configurations, unless you can aquire a large block of aircraft buying them new goes a long way in operating a standerdized fleet.

[Edited 2012-12-19 08:17:28]
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23081
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:12 pm

Quoting FI642 (Reply 2):
Odd with their large Airbus fleet they didn't go with the A330F.

In terms of total available cargo volume, the 767-300F is larger than the A300F and A310F by a pretty fair margin. It's design payload is also higher and it's design range is significantly longer. Yes, the A330-200F exceeds the 767-300F in all three categories, but availability is tighter and it's list price is 20% higher.

Quoting B6WNQX (Reply 4):
Could they pick up second hand 763ER and convert them to F?

As MountainFlyer noted, Boeing and ST Aerospace have developed a Boeing Converted Freighter option for the 767-300ER with NH having taken seven. Bedek Aviation Group has converted eight 767-300ERs to BDSF freighter configuration (six operated by carriers owned by Air Transport Services Group, and one each operated by Euroatlantic Airways and Gestair).
 
iceberg210
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:11 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:09 pm

This makes for 46 767-300ERF's now for Fed Ex, in tranches of 27 (2011), 15 (2012) and 4 (2012.

Congratulations to the 767 that keeps on humming along, it's amazing how well this plane has done and really always under the radar...

Also makes you wonder if UPS is going to pick any more up they are down to just a backlog of 8 out of their last order for 27. Wouldn't be surprised if we see UPS pick up a few more over the next couple years...
Erik Berg (Foster's is over but never forgotten)
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23081
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting iceberg210 (Reply 8):
Wouldn't be surprised if we see UPS pick up a few more over the next couple years...

They also have a large fleet of A300-600RFs that will eventually need replacing, so I would agree that they likely will add more down the road.
 
SXDFC
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:41 pm

I wonder if they will be adding blended winglets to these 767s? Would certainly look great with the FX livery.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Ronaldo747
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:58 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:57 pm

Will FedEx adds Winglets on them like LAN Cargo?

I wonder why UPS don't go with them. Their 767 are quite common on transatlantic and other intercontinental routes, so fuel savings must be enormous. Weight penalties should also not be a factor for them, right? So what's the reason behind?
 
User avatar
bikerthai
Posts: 2164
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:45 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:40 pm

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 5):
Although, I am sure Boeing is offering dirt cheap deals for brand new 763 freighters, so it might be worth it for FX to go that route.

Also, the 767 line will be open quite a while with the US Tanker contract. Any guess on how long the A330 line will stay open with the A350 frames coming down the line? (back log and all).

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
jcded
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:40 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:42 pm

any idea on how long the MD-10s are to stay in fleet and what happens to the FedEx maintenane shop at LAX
You breathe to do good and have fun.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23081
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:53 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 12):
Any guess on how long the A330 line will stay open with the A350 frames coming down the line? (back log and all).

I expect the A330 freighter and A330 MRTT programs to keep the line going, if at a very subdued rate (ala the 767 line).
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11830
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:43 pm

Quoting iceberg210 (Reply 8):
This makes for 46 767-300ERF's now for Fed Ex, in tranches of 27 (2011), 15 (2012) and 4 (2012.

I wouldn't be surprised to see over 80 in the FedEx fleet as the DC-10s go off to become beer cans.    Perhaps over a hundred with the A300-600R replacement. It will all depend if FedEx ever buys the A330F (unlikely due to the payload/range that FedEx requires, but not to be ruled out).

Quoting iceberg210 (Reply 8):
Wouldn't be surprised if we see UPS pick up a few more over the next couple years...

   For growth, after the market has settled. But Stich points out future replacement opportunities enabled by the tanker order (767 line extension in duration).

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
They also have a large fleet of A300-600RFs that will eventually need replacing, so I would agree that they likely will add more down the road.

IIRC, initial delivery was in the 1990s. Depending on the maintenance profile, I would expect an order in 2 to 9 years from now. Since the 767 line should still be open, we should definitely see those orders.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
TC957
Posts: 2046
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:54 pm

When is the 1st 767F for FedEx due ? Any line nos known yet ?
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 19948
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 12):
Any guess on how long the A330 line will stay open with the A350 frames coming down the line? (back log and all).

I can see the A330 selling for many years after the A350 EIS as both 787 and A350 have a huge backlog. And there is also the A330 freighter and the A330 tanker of cource. I think Airbus should be able to keep the line open until the end of the decade.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
phishphan70
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:23 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:15 pm

Quoting FI642 (Reply 2):
Odd with their large Airbus fleet they didn't go with the A330F

The one glaring problem i see with this (besides Boeing giving a much lower price on the 76 than Airbus is willing to go on the 330) is the 767's wing is far shorter than the 330's. FX has a bunch of stands already fitted to the MD10 size, and if memory serves me correctly, the 330 wouldn't be able to park next to another 330 in those spots.
It's like buying a huge SUV that doesn't fit in your garage. Do you want to replace the garage too?
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18987
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 11):
Will FedEx adds Winglets on them like LAN Cargo?

I wonder why UPS don't go with them.

Apart from LAN, what other carriers have winglets on 767 freighters?
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4595
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:31 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 3):
What is the delivery time frame?
Quoting TC957 (Reply 16):
When is the 1st 767F for FedEx due ? Any line nos known yet ?

FX should be taking delivery of the first three in about March. For now, the 767s will not be ETOPS so the certification should be fairly quick and painless.
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 3711
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:36 pm

The age of the trijet is coming to an end  . This is good forr FX because they can fit in the current positions at the Superhub and their 757 pilots will be able n to fly the 767 because of the same rating. It's a good thing they fly the MD-11 to IAH and DFW, the two airports I most frequently use these days.
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
audidudi
Posts: 919
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):

DHL comes to mind, not sure about any others.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23081
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:54 pm

Quoting phishphan70 (Reply 18):
The one glaring problem i see with this (besides Boeing giving a much lower price on the 76 than Airbus is willing to go on the 330) is the 767's wing is far shorter than the 330's. FX has a bunch of stands already fitted to the MD10 size, and if memory serves me correctly, the 330 wouldn't be able to park next to another 330 in those spots.

The DC-10-10 has a span of ~47m and the DC-10-30 has a span of ~50m. The 767-300F is ~47m and the A330-200F is 60m, so indeed the 767-300F can fit in a DC-10 stand whereas an A330-200F cannot.

And let's just say that Airbus offered a very attractive price on some A330-200F launch orders to kick the program off.
 
User avatar
rotating14
Posts: 1120
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:54 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:56 pm

This is old news, as the link provided explains. Congrats anyway.

http://www.nycaviation.com/2012/07/f...f-jets-while-shrinking-777f-order/
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 19948
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:05 pm

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 24):
This is old news

This is a new order.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
PITrules
Posts: 2109
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:27 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:09 pm

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 11):
I wonder why UPS don't go with them. Their 767 are quite common on transatlantic and other intercontinental routes, so fuel savings must be enormous. Weight penalties should also not be a factor for them, right? So what's the reason behind?

Wingspan clearances would become an issue at the nose-in parking positions at the SDF 'Worldport'.
FLYi
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 4790
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:12 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 25):
This is a new order.

But it appears from the link that it has been in the works. The link talks about ordering 19 767s with a total of 46 on order, but Fedex only ordered 15 (for a total of 42) earlier this year. This looks to be the balance. I do not know if they recorded the 4 777F cancellations at the time of the earlier order or not.

Edit: From looking at Hamlet69's reply 223 in this thread: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2012 Part 1 (by someone83 Jan 24 2012 in Civil Aviation)

it appears that Fedex has not yet cancelled the 4 777Fs (the 6 777 cancelled match the amount Boeing has cancelled so far this year on their O&Ds page). So I guess that will be reflected with this order.

[Edited 2012-12-19 14:16:58]
 
flightsimer
Posts: 887
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:34 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:39 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
Quoting audidudi (Reply 22):


The full list appears to be:

ABSA/Tam Cargo
Lan Cargo
MasAir
DHL
Florida West

-300F operators who do not have winglets installed:

UPS
ANA Cargo
Qantas Freight
Euro Atlantic Airways Cargo
Air Transport International
ABX Air
TNT (they no longer appear to be operating them)
Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
 
dcann40
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:38 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:55 pm

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 24):
This is old news, as the link provided explains. Congrats anyway.

Not sure, based on what I read in this article, it seems as if FedEx keeps ordering more! Go 767, Go!

FedEx Announces Order for Four Boeing 767 Freighters

 
fdxco
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 5:09 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:57 pm

Add Silk Way Airlines to that list. I saw one in Baku (UBBB) back in September of this year.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 28):
Quoting flightsimer (Reply 28):
The full list appears to be: ABSA/Tam Cargo Lan Cargo MasAir DHL Florida West
 
727LOVER
Posts: 6652
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:59 pm

Wasn't there something on a.net a few months back about FX ordering 764F? Is that now dead?
Love Trumps Hate
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4595
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:04 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 31):
Wasn't there something on a.net a few months back about FX ordering 764F? Is that now dead?

It was only an a.net rumor. It's quite dead and was never really alive.
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11002
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:06 am

Quoting FI642 (Reply 2):
Odd with their large Airbus fleet they didn't go with the A330F

They don't need it. FedEX already has 22 B-777Fs, another 12 on order and options on another 12.

Quoting B6WNQX (Reply 4):
Could they pick up second hand 763ER and convert them to F?

Yes, they could and they might do just that.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
It will all depend if FedEx ever buys the A330F (unlikely due to the payload/range that FedEx requires, but not to be ruled out).

I don't see it happening.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 20):
Quoting TC957 (Reply 16):When is the 1st 767F for FedEx due ? Any line nos known yet ?
FX should be taking delivery of the first three in about March.

I though the first B-767F deliveries were in 2014. Is that not correct?

BTW, what engines did FedEx order for their B-767Fs?
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23081
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:07 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 31):
Wasn't there something on a.net a few months back about FX ordering 764F?

During the FX RFP, Boeing floated the idea of building a freighter based on the 767-400ER as such an aircraft would be closer in cargo volume and payload weight to the A330-200F. However, FX subsequently decided to order the 767-300F and the idea of a 767-400F was dropped.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4595
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:24 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
I though the first B-767F deliveries were in 2014. Is that not correct?

Two days ago I talked to a sim trainer for FX who is very in the loop. He said specifically this coming March, although they may not be in revenue service until FY14 which of course starts summer of 2013.
 
wrenchon727
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:20 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:18 am

First aircraft N101FE is due 15SEP2013 revenue service Nov2013. Total order at 50 aircraft. Selected engines is GE CF6-80C2.

[Edited 2012-12-19 17:23:01]
 
RickNRoll
Posts: 1213
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:30 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:58 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
SEATTLE, Dec. 19, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] and FedEx Express, a wholly owned subsidiary of FedEx Corp., today announced an order for four 767 Freighters. The order is part of FedEx's initiative to modernize its fleet.

Am I the only person who can see the humour in this announcement.
 
User avatar
Faro
Posts: 1494
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:08 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:46 am

So as of today, when is the (non-tanker) 767 production line due to close down (ie, pax & freighters only)?

The 767 is now going on 30+ years in production, that's quite a feat, very well done!!


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:04 am

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 28):

The full list appears to be:

ABSA/Tam Cargo
Lan Cargo
MasAir
DHL
Florida West

Also LAN Cargo's Colombian subsidiary LANCO's B-767-316F/ERs are fitted with winglets:
N312LA

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Douwe C. van der Zee

Quoting faro (Reply 38):
The 767 is now going on 30+ years in production, that's quite a feat, very well done!!

LAN Airlines continues to receive brand new B-767-316ERs. This month LAN Airlines took delivery of CC-BDK and CC-BDL and still has five more B-767-316ERs on order.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23081
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 37):
Am I the only person who can see the humour in this announcement.

The A300 and A310 do pre-date the 767.  
 
User avatar
bikerthai
Posts: 2164
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:45 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:17 pm

Quoting faro (Reply 38):
So as of today, when is the (non-tanker) 767 production line due to close down (ie, pax & freighters only)?

So as of today. There is only one line for all the 767 (including tanker). The 747-8 line has taken over the old 767 line.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 19948
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:27 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 41):
The 747-8 line has taken over the old 767 line.

That is not correct, the 787 surge line is now inside the old 767 building (40-24).
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6370
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:47 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
However, FX subsequently decided to order the 767-300F and the idea of a 767-400F was dropped.

Since the 764F would be a new model and have to be certified. The 763F is obviously available a lot sooner. Hope to see these in ROC sometime,though I would miss our MD-10-10's.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
Gatorman96
Posts: 807
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:22 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:56 pm

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 37):
Am I the only person who can see the humour in this announcement.

Yes, but...

Fed Ex avg fleet age:
Airbus A300 17.6 yrs
Airbus A310 26.3 yrs
MD DC-10 35.5 yrs
Cha brro
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 4962
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:09 pm

I do find it curious that while the A330 has soundly trounced the 767 in passenger service, the 767F seems to be trouncing the A330F just as soundly. I can see FX's rationale as far as gate spacing is concerned, but other operators who may not have the same issue also seem to prefer the 767. Does anyone have a sound reason why? Is the 767F actually more economical for typical freight operations, or is just that it can be acquired much cheaper? There must be a reason for such a lopsided order ratio. Or is it just that there is a P2F conversion for the 767 and none for the A330?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
B777LRF
Posts: 1437
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting wrenchon727 (Reply 6):
With what FDX has learned with operating the 757 with so many configurations, unless you can aquire a large block of aircraft buying them new goes a long way in operating a standerdized fleet.

Our lot tried that when we bought around 12 A300B4-200Fs more than a decade ago. While they all had the same GE engines, they were sourced from various airlines and soon turned out to present a lot of maintenance challenges.

To replace them the original thought was to go with converted 767s, but it proved impossible to get the 15ish we needed from a single source, in good condition and at a competitive price. Then JL went into bankruptcy and in the process of that placed their (very well maintained) A300-600R fleet on the market. Single source, common everything, and at a very competitive price. Perfect, apart from the fact they had Pratt & Shitney* engines. So now we have a case of flying with RB211 on the 757s, CF6-80 on the 767s and PW4000 on the A300s. Which many posters here should keep in mind when they bleat on about how certain things can't be done because of different engines. Sure it's not ideal, but it's light years away from being a showstopper.

* The "problem" is not that it's a different engine. The problem is that the PW4000 is the least desirable option. Hence the nickname.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23081
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 45):
I do find it curious that while the A330 has soundly trounced the 767 in passenger service, the 767F seems to be trouncing the A330F just as soundly.
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 45):
Does anyone have a sound reason why?

Looking at NH, JL, LA and J2, all of these carriers also operate the 767-300 passenger frame and none of them are an A330-200 operator (LA and J2 do operate the A340). So the 767-300F integrates directly into their existing fleets.

ES is an all-Boeing operator (722F, 752F, 763F).

With 5X and FX, as noted, the 767-300F better integrates into their infrastructure as it's similar in span to the A300, A310 and DC/MD-10 whereas the A330-200 is a fair bit wider. The 767-300F will also lift more volume and weight than an A300 or A310 and carry it farther. It is also within 7% of the volume of a DC-10-30, though it falls about 25% short on payload weight. However, FX and 5X are more inclined to run out of volume on a DC-10 before they run out of weight.

The A330-200F offers about 8% more volume than a 767-300F and will lift about 30% more weight. But since FX and 5X don't really need the weight (that is what the 744F, 77F and MD11F fleets are currently for), the 767F is cheaper to acquire (Airbus has offered significant discounts on the A332F, but it's still a score million more at list than a 763F) and I believe the 767F is quicker to acquire (even with the lower production rate, the bulk of 767 orders are for the freighter).

So for customers replacing older Airbus and Douglas equipment, as well as those who operate the 767-300ER, the 767-300F appears to be a better fit.

The A330-200F, on the other hand, is selling mostly to new freight customers or customers who operate the A330-200 (EY and QR, for example).

[Edited 2012-12-20 09:43:22]
 
B777LRF
Posts: 1437
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:05 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 47):
Airbus has offered significant discounts on the A332F, but it's still a score million more at list than a 763F

Boeing offer very hefty discounts on the 767 as well.

We bought 6 x 763ERF at a price of around 85M each. I know of another airline who bought A332F at around 115M each. 30M here, 30M there - soon you're talking real money  
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23081
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: FedEx Announce Order For Four 767 Freighters

Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 48):
Boeing offer very hefty discounts on the 767 as well.

Absolutely they do.

However, it's become somewhat of an "a.net truth" that Boeing only sells 767s because they discount them massively as no customer actually wants to buy one, but Boeing "makes them offers they cannot refuse" in order to keep the line running until the KC-46A starts serial production.

The A330-200F is an excellent freighter, but it is Airbus' only new-build freighter option compared to the four Boeing offer. Boeing also had significantly larger P2F conversion options. So Airbus did have to make some deals to secure launch customers, but that's the case for any new program, of course.



Quoting B777LRF (Reply 48):
30M here, 30M there - soon you're talking real money.  Smile

Exactly. Even at similar discount rates, the 767-300F starts with a $20 million cheaper list price and that's not chump change.  Smile

[Edited 2012-12-20 11:14:02]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 737NGFan, Baidu [Spider], coolian2, David_itl, debonair, etops1, Fiend, flyguy89, Google [Bot], intotheair, jay767, rutankrd, SAS A340, sassiciai, TheLark, Turbofanfan, Ugly51, ZK-NBT, ZKLOU and 224 guests