deltal1011man
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Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:35 pm

Looking at the newest update for the Delta timetable and Delta has loaded 3x daily LAX-SEA with OO CR9s. Flights start APR8

LAX-SEA
DL4523 LAX-SEA 0815-1100 OO CR9
DL4591 LAX-SEA 1520-1805 OO CR9
DL4564 LAX-SEA 2130-0015 OO CR9 +1

SEA-LAX
DL4563 SEA-LAX 0645-0925 OO CR9
DL4523 SEA-LAX 1150-1430 OO CR9
DL4591 SEA-LAX 1850-2130 OO CR9

(note DL4563 doesn't start till APR9)
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MaverickM11
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:42 pm

Makes you wonder why they have to add their own metal if their partnership with AS is going so well? Or is it?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
fly2yyz
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:44 pm

How many airlines does AS codeshare with on that route specifically? Was DL maybe having trouble getting their volume on the flights competing against the other codesharing airlines?
 
gigneil
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:45 pm

AS is an ffp whore.

Also, has DL lost their mind? Is the plan to feed SYD?

NS
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:48 pm

With SEA that 32 cities and 107 flights for Delta at LAX.
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N62NA
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:51 pm

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 2):
How many airlines does AS codeshare with on that route specifically?

That came to my mind immediately after I got over the disappointment that these new flights actually won't be operated by DL.

Looks like it's just AA (for USA airlines anyway) codesharing on the route once DL goes away.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:53 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
Makes you wonder why they have to add their own metal if their partnership with AS is going so well? Or is it?

I would guess Delta wants some control with its feed.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 3):
Also, has DL lost their mind? Is the plan to feed SYD?

I would say to feed Hawaii and SYD from LA and PEK/PVG/KIX from SEA.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:54 pm

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 2):
Was DL maybe having trouble getting their volume on the flights competing against the other codesharing airlines?

If AS is turning away DL's LAX-SEA-PEK/KIX in favor or bargain bin Mexico-LAX-SEA, DL has bigger problems than AS availability and pricing 
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:54 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):

Delta isn't dropping any codeshares on AS's flights.

All of AS's LAX-SEA flights still show a Delta codeshare as far out as the timetable will go. (JUN10)
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
gigneil
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:55 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 6):
I would say to feed Hawaii and SYD from LA and PEK/PVG/KIX from SEA.

I didn't think the other way. Thanks.

NS
 
mpdpilot
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:01 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
Looks like it's just AA (for USA airlines anyway) codesharing on the route once DL goes away.

Why would the codeshare go away? Can you not codeshare on a route that you both operate?
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:09 am

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 10):
Why would the codeshare go away? Can you not codeshare on a route that you both operate?

I'm afraid this was an assumption on the poster's part.....a bad one, at that.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
seahawks7757
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:09 am

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 10):

You can, there are code shares on MSP flights operated by AS and DL and have shared flight numbers on most of them.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:11 am

DL tried briefly with ERJs on SEA-LAX a few years ago and it was operated with 727s in the 90s. It's good to see them operating the route, but a CRJ, going against AS 737s and VX A320s hasn't worked so well for United, so I wonder how well it will work for DL. Give us some 737s or A320s and they can make the route work. DL has built up SEA and LAX.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
pqdtw
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:15 am

Will the AS code be on these flights?
 
TWA902fly
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:18 am

on the SEA-LAX route... AS codeshares with

Air Pacific
Cathay Pacific
Delta
Icelandair
Korean Air
LAN
Qantas

so maybe DL does need a few of their own flights?

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:22 am

It's too bad the 717's won't make out west. The SEA-LAX route would be perfect for DL along the west coast...maybe more comfortable anyway.
 
questions
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:33 am

Why doesn't VX whore itself out like AS?
 
questions
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:35 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 3):
AS is an ffp whore.

Why doesn't VX whore itself out like AS?
 
deltairlines
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL4523 LAX-SEA 0815-1100 OO CR9

On LAX end, allows for good connections from SYD, KOA, OGG, HNL, LIH, SAN, LAS. (granted, AS has nonstops to all of these but SYD). SEA end allows for some extra flow to NRT/AMS/CDG if the LAX nonstops are full, as well as KIX and PVG.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL4591 LAX-SEA 1520-1805 OO CR9

Not much useful connectivity at LAX. SEA allows for PEK, HND (if LAX flight is full).

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL4564 LAX-SEA 2130-0015 OO CR9 +1

LAX end allows for HNL/PHX/LAS (again, nothing great, but does allow a decent option for a daytime flight from Hawaii). Nothing on SEA end.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL4563 SEA-LAX 0645-0925 OO CR9

LAX end allows for connections to SAN (meh), MSY and MCO. SEA end has feed from PEK.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL4523 SEA-LAX 1150-1430 OO CR9

LAX end allows for SAN/LAS (meh). Allows for inbound from PVG.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL4591 SEA-LAX 1850-2130 OO CR9

LAX end allows for SYD, MIA, MCO, TPA, IND and other DL hubs. SEA has feed from HND

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 13):
DL tried briefly with ERJs on SEA-LAX a few years ago and it was operated with 727s in the 90s. It's good to see them operating the route, but a CRJ, going against AS 737s and VX A320s hasn't worked so well for United, so I wonder how well it will work for DL. Give us some 737s or A320s and they can make the route work. DL has built up SEA and LAX.

The CR9s at least are a world different than the ERJs tried five or so years ago. First Class, wi-fi, Economy Comfort, etc. For a two hour flight, it's not a horrible plane and will be reasonably competitive with AS/VX. Since the flight is over 900 miles, F does get a meal.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 6):
I would guess Delta wants some control with its feed.

Keep in mind that with codesharing, some money gets paid from the marketing airline to the operating airline. It's great if you can't fill your own planes, but once you get enough of a presence, it makes sense to start flying your own plane and keeping that money than farming it out. Now with the feed and presence on both ends of this route, I'm guessing that there's a decent bit of people that DL is putting on AS each day to the point where it makes more financial sense to put your own planes on it and not hand that money over to AS.
 
xlc
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:14 am

From a SkyClub perspective this is greatly appreciated.
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:19 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 4):
With SEA that 32 cities and 107 flights for Delta at LAX.

For comparison, that's almost exactly the same size operation as WN at LAX.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
deltairlines
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:32 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 21):
For comparison, that's almost exactly the same size operation as WN at LAX.

WN has slightly more flights (113 vs 107), less destinations (23 vs 32) but more seats (about 9000 more seats/week than DL)
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:41 am

Well, Delta would seem to be the new United in the LAX market for us Seattle folks. I've always enjoyed QX CR7 flights and I'm sure I'd enjoy DL CR9's as well.

-Dave
-Dave
 
HVNandrew
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:15 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 13):
DL tried briefly with ERJs on SEA-LAX a few years ago

It was during DL's ERJ phase at LAX around 2006, but it was actually run as a 1x daily 738 over that summer. I don't know if it was an ERJ before then (along with a lot of other things around then), but it did run on mainline that summer.
 
ridgid727
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:47 am

This was an original Western Airlines Route that DL axed, started, axed, started, axed and willbe starting again.
 
spiritair97
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:16 am

I hope (and don't doubt) that it'll do well! I like to see DL build up stations that aren't LGA or ATL in the last year or so.
 
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enilria
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:58 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 3):
Also, has DL lost their mind? Is the plan to feed SYD?

It's equally dumb to their LAX-SFO service. It's probably also to stick it to AS.
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:14 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 27):
It's equally dumb to their LAX-SFO service. It's probably also to stick it to AS.

Yet LAX-SFO is profitable for Delta. Go figure.
 
laca773
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:24 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 13):
DL tried briefly with ERJs on SEA-LAX a few years ago and it was operated with 727s in the 90s. It's good to see them operating the route, but a CRJ, going against AS 737s and VX A320s hasn't worked so well for United, so I wonder how well it will work for DL. Give us some 737s or A320s and they can make the route work. DL has built up SEA and LAX.

   ! The main difference between DLC and UAX is DL does offer a F cabin with catering while UAX hands out those carb boxes in Y+. I believe also quite often UAX does downgauge LAX-SEA to CR5s from the CR7s.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 16):
It's too bad the 717's won't make out west. The SEA-LAX route would be perfect for DL along the west coast...maybe more comfortable anyway.

  ! Agreed. This route would be a great a/c for DL to start out with and upgauge accordingly.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:28 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 29):
CR5s

What's a CR5?
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
chrisair
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:31 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 16):
maybe more comfortable anyway.

I don't find the OO CR7 or CR9 uncomfortable. The CR9s aren't that bad in the back. Probably wouldn't take it over an AS 737, but it's a nice backup to the AS service...

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 28):
Yet LAX-SFO is profitable for Delta. Go figure.

They run hourly-ish shuttles on that route. I take it a lot. It's a nice alternative to WN at times...plus I find the DL terminal at LAX to be nicer and easier than the WN terminal thanks to PreCheck...
 
alasizon
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:40 am

This sounds very similar to SEA-SLC. Both carriers see that there is room for service and so they both operate.

Granted, SEA-LAX is already relatively saturated, but I can say that most months of the year, it can be hard to get anything but a middle seat within the 21 day booking window (or less). Now, while that means there are seats available, people are less likely to take a flight with only middle seats.
Ramp Unit Manager & Tower Planner
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:43 am

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 28):
Yet LAX-SFO is profitable for Delta. Go figure.

High CASM RJs are profitable up against UA/WN/VX/AA mainline trying to kill each other? Unlikely.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 29):
! The main difference between DLC and UAX is DL does offer a F cabin with catering while UAX hands out those carb boxes in Y+. I believe also quite often UAX does downgauge LAX-SEA to CR5s from the CR7s.

UA's LAXSEA is like Invisalign®--it's barely there.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 19):
On LAX end, allows for good connections from SYD, KOA, OGG, HNL, LIH, SAN, LAS. (granted, AS has nonstops to all of these but SYD). SEA end allows for some extra flow to NRT/AMS/CDG if the LAX nonstops are full, as well as KIX and PVG.

Outside of maybe SYD you're getting into some really marginal cheap connection traffic
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:48 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):

Makes you wonder why they have to add their own metal if their partnership with AS is going so well? Or is it?

= Why does UA maintain an once a day CR7 on YVR-LAX  ?

Saludos,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
olddominion727
Posts: 420
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:51 am

Keep in mind that before DL and AS were going at it like two teenagers in the back seat, they were rivals in this market. DL used to fly 727/757 to both SEA and PDX from LAX. Back when they had their hub at LAX. They also flew between PDX-Sea, like AS, TW, CO, AA, QQ, EA, NW most of the time just to reposition equipment.
 
dc9northwest
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:33 am

RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:57 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 31):
I don't find the OO CR7 or CR9 uncomfortable. The CR9s aren't that bad in the back. Probably wouldn't take it over an AS 737, but it's a nice backup to the AS service...

A least on the Skywest birds I've flown, there aren't any extended overhead bins, even in First Class. Although, I've had great service on OO... Don't like those CRJ overhead bins, they're too tiny to be useful. Did DL/its regional partners only install extended overhead bins on some CR9s? I think all the Embraers feature those...

OO is much better than Pinnacle/ex-Mesaba, where the service was quite bad unfortunately.
 
laca773
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:59 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 30):
What's a CR5?

It's also known as a CR2/CRJ. I believe it's sometimes called a CR5 since it's a 50 seat a/c.
 
sr117
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:59 am

Given the big increase of international operations at SEA, it's nice to see DL operate some feeder flights with its own metal. This should make things like LAX-SEA-KIX possible on DL metal without having to transit through HNL. Three CRJ9s a day doesn't seem like something that would step on AS's toes either. Let's see how this looks after a year.
 
dc9northwest
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:57 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 37):
It's also known as a CR2/CRJ. I believe it's sometimes called a CR5 since it's a 50 seat a/c.

Yep; I think it was internal to DL though.

Comair had CR4s and CR5s in 2002-2003 (around when I first flew Comair); CR4 being the 44-seat variant CRJ-440 (basically the same as the CRJ-100/200), which I guess competed vs the ERJ-140.
 
wedgetail737
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:12 am

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 32):
Granted, SEA-LAX is already relatively saturated, but I can say that most months of the year, it can be hard to get anything but a middle seat within the 21 day booking window (or less). Now, while that means there are seats available, people are less likely to take a flight with only middle seats.

Even though AS has pretty deep connection ties with DL, a lot of AS flights are packed with AS passengers, which probably doesn't leave a whole lot of interline traffic. DL's new flights will alleviate that issue.
 
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RWA380
Posts: 4467
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RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:22 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 25):
This was an original Western Airlines Route that DL axed, started, axed, started, axed and will be starting again
Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 35):
DL used to fly 727/757 to both SEA and PDX from LAX. Back when they had their hub at LAX.

Believe it or not, DL flying the SEA-LAX route was way before the WA merger, they used to run an L-1011 in 1982

http://www.departedflights.com/DL103182.html

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 35):
They also flew between PDX-Sea, like AS, TW, CO, AA, QQ, EA, NW most of the time just to reposition equipment.

According to my count 40-43 carriers, depending on how you count 'em up, below is my compiled list to the best of my abilities so far, As far as I'm concerned PDX-SEA is the ultimate tag route 747's to PAG's

ZA=AccessAir - 73S - http://www.departedflights.com/ZA103199.html
OC=Air Cal - M80, 73S, 733 - http://www.departedflights.com/OC050187.html
JT=Air Oregon - SWM - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/jt/jt79/jt79-08.jpg
RW=Airwest - DC9s - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/rw68/rw68-2.jpg
*AS=Alaska Airlines - 727, 72S, 73S, 734, 73G, M80 - http://www.departedflights.com/AS091586.html
*AA=American Airlines - M80, 72S, 727 - http://www.departedflights.com/AA042681p32.html
TZ=American Trans Air - L10 - http://www.departedflights.com/TZ121794.html
Bennett Air Transport - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ben30a.htm
*BN=Braniff International - 747, 72S, 727 - http://www.departedflights.com/BN071576.html
CZ=Cascade Airways - HS7, BE9, B11 - http://www.departedflights.com/CZ090984.html
7C=Columbia Pacific Airlines (BFI) - PAG - http://www.departedflights.com/PDX91p3.html
*CO=Continental Airlines - D10, 707, 720, 727, 72S, M80 - http://www.departedflights.com/CO010880.html
*DL=Delta Airlines - L10, 767, 757, 72S - http://www.departedflights.com/DL103182.html
*EA=Eastern Airlines - L10, AB3, 757, 72S, 727 - http://www.departedflights.com/EA050181.html
EZ=Evergreen International - DC8 - Summer 1980 only, SEA-PDX-OGG-PDX-SEA, Sa only, no local SEA-PDX-SEA
Execuair - PAG - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ev1.htm
Far West Airlines - PAG (HIO-BFI) - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/far.htm
FL=Frontier Airlines - 73S, M80 - http://www.departedflights.com/FL040485.html
*HA=Hawaiian Airlines - L10 - http://www.departedflights.com/HA040587.html
*QX=Horizon Air - F27, F28, SWM, DH8, DH4, CRJ, 328 - http://www.departedflights.com/QX010586.html
*RW=Hughes Airwest - 72S, DC9, D9S, F27 - http://www.departedflights.com/RW070172.html
SI=Jet America - M80 - http://www.departedflights.com/SI060787.html
BF=Markair - 73S - http://www.departedflights.com/BF090793.html
*KN/SP=Morris Air (Sierra Pacific) - 73S - http://www.departedflights.com/KN080193.html
*NW=Northwest Orient / Northwest Airlines - 747, D10, 320, 757, 720, 72S, 727 - http://www.departedflights.com/NW080182.html
PNA=Pacific Northern Airlines - CON - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/pn59/pn59-1.jpg
PA=Pan American World Airways - 747, 707 - http://www.departedflights.com/PA042973.html
QQ=Reno Air - M80 - http://www.departedflights.com/QQ052297.html
*RC=Republic Airlines - 72S, DC9, D9S - http://www.departedflights.com/RC042681.html
K5=SeaPort (BFI) - Pilates, Caravan - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1HXzWcH24M
OO=AS-Skywest - http://www.skywest.com/assets/Upload...Maps/AlaskaRouteSystemOCT12-01.jpg
OO=UAX-Skywest - http://www.skywest.com/assets/Upload...Maps/UnitedRouteSystemOCT12-01.jpg
SY=Sun Country Airlines - 738 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP1RqDdaxZY
http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...irlineCode=SY&flightNumber=123
http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...irlineCode=SY&flightNumber=123
JK=Sunworld,-733, DC9 - http://www.departedflights.com/JK091487.html
*TW=Trans World Airlines - L10, M80, 767 - http://www.departedflights.com/TW070183.html
*OE=UAX-Westair - J31, EM2 - http://www.departedflights.com/PDX91p3.html
*NO=UAX-NPA - J31, EM2 - http://www.departedflights.com/PDX91p3.html
*UA=United Airlines - 747, D10, D8S, 727, 72S, 73S - http://www.departedflights.com/UA030283.html
US=USAir / US Airways - 733 - http://www.departedflights.com/US070189.html
West Coast Air Transport - Tri Motor Fokker - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/wcat30a.htm
West Coast Airlines - DC3 - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/wc66/wc66-01.jpg
*WA=Western Airlines - 72S, 720, 707, 73S - http://www.departedflights.com/WA030181.html
W7=Western Pacific - 733 - http://www.departedflights.com/W7062997.html
*WC=Wien Air Alaska - 72S, 73S - http://www.departedflights.com/WC030284.html

* = Those I have flown on
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4715
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:54 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 27):
It's equally dumb to their LAX-SFO service. It's probably also to stick it to AS.

yep generally feeding International flights are dumb. It would, clearly, be much smarter to just fly LAX-SYD/HND/NRT with no feed. (oh and I won't even bring up the fact that LAX-SFO is one of LAs most important business routes, and the shuttle Delta is running has put them in much better place to win corp. traffic.....again, which is something airlines clearly shouldn't be going after   )

and stick it to AS? Dude stop looking at airlines like they are run by people in high school. (and FWIW, As we have seen with DL, when they "stick it" to someone, they use a lot more than 3x CR9s.) As hard as it is to believe, Delta is adding these flights for feed(controlled) for its Asia and SYD flights from both cities. Has nothing to do with "sticking it" to AS. jeesh.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
dbo861
Posts: 864
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 2:20 am

RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 43):
Ive never seen it referred to anywhere as a CR5 except here, now, by you. Only as a CRJ or CR2 in some instances.

I used to see it all the time when I was at Comair. I believe their safety cards in seatback pockets even used to say CR5 on them instead of CRJ or CRJ-200. Heck..most of their CRJs were CRJ-100s.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAFETY-CARD-...Aeronautica_MJ&hash=item35c1e91d9e


[Edited 2012-12-21 07:28:09]
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1487
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:42 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 33):
High CASM RJs are profitable up against UA/WN/VX/AA mainline trying to kill each other? Unlikely.

Mav, you know better than looking at CASM alone. You've got to look at the RASM side, including the beyonds. (And CR9's are actually not particularly high CASM)

In the YE2Q12, Delta carried 205 paxs from SFO-LAX on a daily basis at a $84 average fare. Total revenue for one-way local market per day was $17,130. However, also onboard the aircraft were 240 connecting passengers at an average fare of $411. Total connecting revenue was $98,821. Total local and connecting revenue was $115,952 which equates to an average fare of $260.

You want to know why Delta is going to make $1.6B this year and WN & VX are struggling? The lack of international network connectivity is a big part of the answer. They rely on those low local fares. Its just gravy to DL, UA and AA.

This same story applies in LAX-LAS, LAX-OAK, LAX-PHX, LAX-SAN. You name it.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1230
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 40):
Even though AS has pretty deep connection ties with DL, a lot of AS flights are packed with AS passengers, which probably doesn't leave a whole lot of interline traffic. DL's new flights will alleviate that issue.

Too true. And probably an issue for DL premium traffic that's connecting to/from international.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15323
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:01 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 45):
Mav, you know better than looking at CASM alone. You've got to look at the RASM side, including the beyonds. (And CR9's are actually not particularly high CASM)

I'm sorry, I *refuse* to believe DL has a revenue premium on a few RJs between LAX, where its fares are on the low side to be charitable, and SFO where it has a minimal presence.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 45):
However, also onboard the aircraft were 240 connecting passengers at an average fare of $411.

Sure, probably all going to SYD, so prorated down to the local segment it's $2. I understand DL needs to be there but there's no way it's profitable on a segment basis.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1487
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 47):
Sure, probably all going to SYD, so prorated down to the local segment it's $2. I understand DL needs to be there but there's no way it's profitable on a segment basis.

4.6 paxs to SYD out 445 total.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15323
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:28 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 48):
4.6 paxs to SYD out 445 total.

SYD is probably the highest yield opportunity, otherwise what is DL taking that is unique to either airport? Day of week, seasonal CMHSFO traffic over LAX?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1487
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA

Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:41 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 49):
SYD is probably the highest yield opportunity, otherwise what is DL taking that is unique to either airport? Day of week, seasonal CMHSFO traffic over LAX?

It is a mix of dozens of online and interline markets. Doesn't need to be unique to either airport Both are capacity constrained facilities. Not every passenger from SFO is on a nonstop to their destination, and not all of them fly UA or VX. In fact many of them are Delta customers in other markets destined for SFO. Regardless, it works.

By the way, the data I'm looking at doesn't even include foreign-flag carried interline traffic. So no Virgin Australia, no AeroMexico and no SkyTeam carriers. That is all on top of the data I've shared.

If you'd rather not believe me, that is fine. But I can assure you that your instincts are off-base here.